NERF (FIX) GUARD NEGATE and CCs IN PVP

rustudah · February 2020

The amount of negates the guards place on a single player getting chased by multiple enemies is just Ludicrous.
Imagine being a magblade being chased by templars and sorcs and get negated thrice in immediate succession by the stupid guard AI.... Worst design ever.
And the even worst part is these negates are placed right on the player and affect two levels of a tower.

Guard AI in general is broken in Cyrodiil. so many soft ccs, double ccs, ccs that cancel your animation but do not apply the effect (wasting global cooldown). I could survive a 1vX, while it is ridiculously difficult to even 1v1 with guards around.

There should be atleast a 15-20 sec delay between each negate by the guard , Oh and Fix Guard CCs for heavens sake.

Beardimus · February 2020

Nope, I disagree. If you are attacking a castle single handed it should be hard / annoying.

And as a small scaler using those means another weopon on your arsenal.

I would agree how that the heat sealing missile ranger attacks not impaired by LOS could go lol

rustudah · February 2020

Beardimus wrote: »

Nope, I disagree. If you are attacking a castle single handed it should be hard / annoying.

And as a small scaler using those means another weopon on your arsenal.

I would agree how that the heat sealing missile ranger attacks not impaired by LOS could go lol

You must have misunderstood, I did not say to remove guard negates or remove guard CCs.
I was suggesting to change them so it becomes playable. right now, it isn't.. unless you only play stam classes which i think you are or you are always in a group.

I agree for it to be hard and annoying, is why Guards place negates and CC on top of players in the first place . You should be able to differentiate between what is acceptable and what is not.

I am not necessarily always attacking a keep, sometimes I am just there for fights or even getting away from it.
AI playing your game is another weapon in your arsenal? lmao. Sure its nice to have, but actually counting on it just broken.

We can however specify which guards needs to be focused upon and how they can be scaled. Negates am talking about is mostly in Keep towers, broken CCs are mostly in resources.
Timing between negates can depend upon how many players there are in vicinity. more enemy players = more frequent negate.

Heat seaking missiles? lol if you are dying to that, you wont stand a chance against player attacks.

idk · February 2020

Beardimus wrote: »

Nope, I disagree. If you are attacking a castle single handed it should be hard / annoying.

And as a small scaler using those means another weopon on your arsenal.

I would agree how that the heat sealing missile ranger attacks not impaired by LOS could go lol

As a solo and small group player I agree. Especially that the smaller the group the more challenging taking a keep should be.

Taleof2Cities · February 2020

rustudah wrote: »

You must have misunderstood, I did not say to remove guard negates or remove guard CCs.
I was suggesting to change them so it becomes playable. right now, it isn't.. unless you only play stam classes which i think you are or you are always in a group.

Negates am talking about is mostly in Keep towers, broken CCs are mostly in resources.

Maybe I still don't understand?

You wanting to micromanage negate timing and resource guard CCs (to cater to your solo playstyle) doesn't sound like something ZOS should spend their time on.

rustudah · February 2020

idk wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Nope, I disagree. If you are attacking a castle single handed it should be hard / annoying.

And as a small scaler using those means another weopon on your arsenal.

I would agree how that the heat sealing missile ranger attacks not impaired by LOS could go lol

As a solo and small group player I agree. Especially that the smaller the group the more challenging taking a keep should be.

Read my last comment please.

why do i feel so difficult to make people understand the problem?
Sure, if you are taking an empty keep I dont mind if guards are twice as powerful. Am not talking about braindead dps parsing. this is not PVE, we are fighting players in the midst, outnumbered nonetheless.
I cannot rolldodge 10 times in a row on a magicka class while being chased by players and hit with undodgeable ccs (through 3 walls) from guards.
As it is, it encourages players to not develop any skillset to CC or fight an opponent who is trying to attack them.
I have specified the locations where guard mechanics needs to be adjusted in my last post.

People keep misunderstanding between a challenge and insanity.

Zer0_CooL · February 2020

They recently saved my ass in a keeptower, while defendig it heavily outnumbered against a hord of blues. So i'd say let them as they are.

Joy_Division · February 2020

rustudah wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Nope, I disagree. If you are attacking a castle single handed it should be hard / annoying.

And as a small scaler using those means another weopon on your arsenal.

I would agree how that the heat sealing missile ranger attacks not impaired by LOS could go lol

As a solo and small group player I agree. Especially that the smaller the group the more challenging taking a keep should be.

Read my last comment please.

why do i feel so difficult to make people understand the problem?
Sure, if you are taking an empty keep I dont mind if guards are twice as powerful. Am not talking about braindead dps parsing. this is not PVE, we are fighting players in the midst, outnumbered nonetheless.
I cannot rolldodge 10 times in a row on a magicka class while being chased by players and hit with undodgeable ccs (through 3 walls) from guards.
As it is, it encourages players to not develop any skillset to CC or fight an opponent who is trying to attack them.
I have specified the locations where guard mechanics needs to be adjusted in my last post.

People keep misunderstanding between a challenge and insanity.

We understand your comments perfectly well. But part of the deal when it come to 1vXing is to use the brain to select the correct environment and be skilled enough that if you do choose to engage other players with a dozen enemy NPCs around is to be able to deal with an occasional random CC from them.

VaranisArano · February 2020

The NPC guards are there to provide a challenge. ZOS keeps buffing the guards on the CP campaigns for that reason.

The NPCs also do a great job no matter the size of your group. If I'm soloing resources, NPCs + an enemy player is a tough fight! And I can't count how many times my raid has eaten an NPC-thrown Negate on a ram or the flags at exactly the wrong moment.

The only real disparity I see is that Stamina players don't have to worry about the Negates. But I suspect that's a matter for ZOS to figure out a stamina counter that doesn't disproportionately punish magicka players with their smaller stam pool, not a matter of making the challenge posed by NPCs less than they already are.

NordSwordnBoard · February 2020

I don't know why expunge, which costs health, is unavailable under negate. Should this be fixed or do all health cost skills get negated along with magic ones?

MincVinyl · February 2020

rustudah wrote: »

Guard AI in general is broken in Cyrodiil. so many soft ccs, double ccs, ccs that cancel your animation but do not apply the effect (wasting global cooldown). I could survive a 1vX, while it is ridiculously difficult to even 1v1 with guards around.

There should be atleast a 15-20 sec delay between each negate by the guard , Oh and Fix Guard CCs for heavens sake.

What effect are you referring to? If it is stun immunity you mean, they are not suppose to give stun immunity off of soft cc(what I assume is the double cc you are talking about)

Revokus · February 2020

No need to remove them but the guards in Cyrodiil are the buggiest thing I ever saw in my life.

You can't light attack weave against them when they are packed most of the time and it's like they are making you lag.

Best way to take them down is to AOE them all and send them to oblivion as fast as possible.

TheRealCherokeee3 · February 2020

Just...Negate them back? Burn them down in 4-5 seconds, or if it takes longer and they come out of the stun, you have plenty of time to have burned a few down and pop an immovable to avoid CC to get the rest.

Anyron · February 2020

You are in enemy keep. You expect to go there, run on walls while guards stay and do nothing?

In fact guards could use more skills. Something that can even danger zergs. Now they are just meatshields.
You can easily solo them which isnt proper keep defence force. Negate isnt that bad, just simply walk out of it (i play mag only so i know how it feels to get negated while fighting)

Beardimus · February 2020

rustudah wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Nope, I disagree. If you are attacking a castle single handed it should be hard / annoying.

And as a small scaler using those means another weopon on your arsenal.

I would agree how that the heat sealing missile ranger attacks not impaired by LOS could go lol

You must have misunderstood, I did not say to remove guard negates or remove guard CCs.
I was suggesting to change them so it becomes playable. right now, it isn't.. unless you only play stam classes which i think you are or you are always in a group.

I agree for it to be hard and annoying, is why Guards place negates and CC on top of players in the first place . You should be able to differentiate between what is acceptable and what is not.

I am not necessarily always attacking a keep, sometimes I am just there for fights or even getting away from it.
AI playing your game is another weapon in your arsenal? lmao. Sure its nice to have, but actually counting on it just broken.

We can however specify which guards needs to be focused upon and how they can be scaled. Negates am talking about is mostly in Keep towers, broken CCs are mostly in resources.
Timing between negates can depend upon how many players there are in vicinity. more enemy players = more frequent negate.

Heat seaking missiles? lol if you are dying to that, you wont stand a chance against player attacks.

@rustudah you come across a little hostile and not sure why.

On one hand you are saying you struggle with NPCs which I don't the next you have a pop at my comment about NPC ranger attacks. I never said I die to them, I just think they are a poor mechanic as they go through LOS.

You on the other hand appear to struggle to solo keeps. I don't. I'm into small scale and in particular using NPCs is key if you are outnumbered.

Clearly you haven't found the best way to solo keeps yet. And yet rather than listen you just get hostile.

We have understood you, we just don't agree.

juhislihis19 · February 2020

Regarding NPCs, I get double CC'd by resource guards all the time. And they shoot through the walls all the time as well.

In the keep I've actually been stamina-negate'd by guards (don't know how the fudge this happened, some kind of glitch, the whole weapon bar went "gray" for few seconds despite the game running normally).

Are all of these intended? Are the guards supposed to break game mechanics?

jadarock · February 2020

Are they annoying yes ..should they be yes
On any dps char you shouldn't have issues and if you're on a healer you shouldn't be rolling solo at resources ofc itll be painful.
Any easier to kill them and itll go back to being like stepping on ants again.

dazee · February 2020

NPC guards are fine last I was in cyro, but I lost interest in cyrodil when faction locks started. I dont want to be stuck on one character for pvp. and no I never abused the lack of faction lock I simply want to pvp as the character I feel like. like most people.

Rahar · February 2020

Let's not nerf guard abilities, but let's expand their repertoire to effect stamina characters as much as it does magicka; that way we can keep to annoyance/difficulty of soloing objectives. Right now, camp clearing on a solo stam is EZPZ because guard negate and total dark only effect magicka abilities and projectiles, respectively.

TheRealCherokeee3 · February 2020

Rahar wrote: »

Let's not nerf guard abilities, but let's expand their repertoire to effect stamina characters as much as it does magicka; that way we can keep to annoyance/difficulty of soloing objectives. Right now, camp clearing on a solo stam is EZPZ because guard negate and total dark only effect magicka abilities and projectiles, respectively.

Sounds good to me! Lets add to the annoyance and include them teabagging you if you die

butterrum222 · February 2020

I would like to see the total removal of all gaurds from Cyrodiil, maybe it would help slightly with stability

ecru · February 2020

juhislihis19 wrote: »

Regarding NPCs, I get double CC'd by resource guards all the time. And they shoot through the walls all the time as well.

In the keep I've actually been stamina-negate'd by guards (don't know how the fudge this happened, some kind of glitch, the whole weapon bar went "gray" for few seconds despite the game running normally).

Are all of these intended? Are the guards supposed to break game mechanics?

It's definitely intended. NPCs have never obeyed CC immunity timers, and I'm sure ZOS is aware of this, and that's something I'd like to see changed. If you can't be chain stunned by players, you shouldn't be chain stunned by NPCs.