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Lokk vs War Machine
Styxius
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I wanted to make a post out of curiosity to see people's thoughts on this.
I personally would like to see this flipped but I'm curious what everyone else thinks, the question I am asking is should the Durations of the Major slayer provided by War Machine and Perfected Lokk be switched? War Machine is sitting at 10 seconds, and Lokk at 15, I think it'd provide more interesting end game raid compositions and Team play to stylize the group in terms of positioning, etc as another option for trial group comp, what are your thoughts?
War Machine:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you use an Ultimate ability, you and the closest 2 allies within 28 meters of you gain Major Slayer for 10 seconds, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 15%.
Perfected Tooth of Lokkestiiz:
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical, When you activate a synergy, gain Major Slayer for 15 seconds, increasing your damage done to Dungeon and Trial monsters by 15%.
I personally would like to see this flipped but I'm curious what everyone else thinks, the question I am asking is should the Durations of the Major slayer provided by War Machine and Perfected Lokk be switched? War Machine is sitting at 10 seconds, and Lokk at 15, I think it'd provide more interesting end game raid compositions and Team play to stylize the group in terms of positioning, etc as another option for trial group comp, what are your thoughts?
War Machine:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you use an Ultimate ability, you and the closest 2 allies within 28 meters of you gain Major Slayer for 10 seconds, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 15%.
Perfected Tooth of Lokkestiiz:
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical, When you activate a synergy, gain Major Slayer for 15 seconds, increasing your damage done to Dungeon and Trial monsters by 15%.
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Donny_Vito✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think it's fine. War Machine can really provide 30 seconds of Major Slayer as it also provides 2 allies with the buff. The only problem with WM, in my opinion, is that it is proc'd by using an Ultimate which really only makes it useful for Nightblades...though other classes can still use it but they don't have the cheap, useful ultimate like the NB.2 -
Styxius✭✭✭✭I mean Templar, Warden and NB can make use of War Machine but I think that's more of where my concern is regarding the duration of both as it stands as one requires an Ulti and technically the other just requires you press x every now and then making it too easy to maintain compared to War machine users.2
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Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I mean Templar, Warden and NB can make use of War Machine but I think that's more of where my concern is regarding the duration of both as it stands as one requires an Ulti and technically the other just requires you press x every now and then making it too easy to maintain compared to War machine users.
And what is "requires an Ulti" if not just pressing "R" (or whatever button you have ulti assigned to) every now and then? You know, something that you personally are completely in control of and have no cooldowns on.
Compared to pressing "X" every now and then but then it only works if one of your allies (unless you are a necro) has provided you with a synergy at the right time and this specific synergy does not happen to be on a 20 second cooldown when you are tyring to press said button.0 -
Styxius✭✭✭✭Well Building an Ultimate vs using a synergy there's an immediately higher ease of access when it comes to synergies especially in trials compared to ultimate usage rates are a little more uncommon, and you can easily achieve 100% Lokk uptimes where it's not as easily obtained when using War Machine. I don't know of any trial teams that actually have issues getting enough synergies for a 100% Lokk uptime.1
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Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well Building an Ultimate vs using a synergy there's an immediately higher ease of access when it comes to synergies especially in trials compared to ultimate usage rates are a little more uncommon, and you can easily achieve 100% Lokk uptimes where it's not as easily obtained when using War Machine. I don't know of any trial teams that actually have issues getting enough synergies for a 100% Lokk uptime.
With War Machine/Master Architect you provide a buff to three players. Two of which can wear an addtional damage oriented set to capitalise on Major Slayer provided by someone else. With Lokk every single DD has to wear their own set to achieve that 100% uptime. This is a major difference you are completely ignoring.3 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I mean Templar, Warden and NB can make use of War Machine but I think that's more of where my concern is regarding the duration of both as it stands as one requires an Ulti and technically the other just requires you press x every now and then making it too easy to maintain compared to War machine users.
And what is "requires an Ulti" if not just pressing "R" (or whatever button you have ulti assigned to) every now and then? You know, something that you personally are completely in control of and have no cooldowns on.
Compared to pressing "X" every now and then but then it only works if one of your allies (unless you are a necro) has provided you with a synergy at the right time and this specific synergy does not happen to be on a 20 second cooldown when you are tyring to press said button.
I get basically a constant stream of usable synergies when I run trials. With WM/MA I get reduced DPS that SHOULD improve the overall group DPS, but since every stam DD and their mom are wearing Lokke these days, the Major Slayer is wasted too often for it to be worth wearing.1 -
Donny_Vito✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well Building an Ultimate vs using a synergy there's an immediately higher ease of access when it comes to synergies especially in trials compared to ultimate usage rates are a little more uncommon, and you can easily achieve 100% Lokk uptimes where it's not as easily obtained when using War Machine. I don't know of any trial teams that actually have issues getting enough synergies for a 100% Lokk uptime.
It really depends on the Trial. In vAS+2 even with a Necro or NB bow/bow build (where a majority are Mag DPS), you wouldn't want Lokke. You'd definitely want WM or MA (mag version) spread out through the group. But if you're doing vSS, you'd probably want a majority in Lokke as you're basically stacked a majority of the time (synergies easy to come by).
So really, it's best to keep both sets available (among others) to easily swap when you know one is going to perform better than the other in a situation.2 -
Styxius✭✭✭✭Well Building an Ultimate vs using a synergy there's an immediately higher ease of access when it comes to synergies especially in trials compared to ultimate usage rates are a little more uncommon, and you can easily achieve 100% Lokk uptimes where it's not as easily obtained when using War Machine. I don't know of any trial teams that actually have issues getting enough synergies for a 100% Lokk uptime.
With War Machine/Master Architect you provide a buff to three players. Two of which can wear an addtional damage oriented set to capitalise on Major Slayer provided by someone else. With Lokk every single DD has to wear their own set to achieve that 100% uptime. This is a major difference you are completely ignoring.
Oh, I totally agree, that's why I wanted to mention this as a discussion I wanted to see what other people would think because Lokk inherently has an easier access to its buff where War machine would require more coordination as Orbs alone with the ability to give the whole team besides caster a synergy right away makes it already match. Plus war machine only buffs the user and 2 others, meaning 3 players would need to wear it to cover the whole team of DPS. Maybe increasing War Machine to affect 4 people in total would help boost its viability in comparison to War Machine?0 -
Styxius✭✭✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »Well Building an Ultimate vs using a synergy there's an immediately higher ease of access when it comes to synergies especially in trials compared to ultimate usage rates are a little more uncommon, and you can easily achieve 100% Lokk uptimes where it's not as easily obtained when using War Machine. I don't know of any trial teams that actually have issues getting enough synergies for a 100% Lokk uptime.
It really depends on the Trial. In vAS+2 even with a Necro or NB bow/bow build (where a majority are Mag DPS), you wouldn't want Lokke. You'd definitely want WM or MA (mag version) spread out through the group. But if you're doing vSS, you'd probably want a majority in Lokke as you're basically stacked a majority of the time (synergies easy to come by).
So really, it's best to keep both sets available (among others) to easily swap when you know one is going to perform better than the other in a situation.
That's a very fair point, I could definitely see that situation.1 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »Well Building an Ultimate vs using a synergy there's an immediately higher ease of access when it comes to synergies especially in trials compared to ultimate usage rates are a little more uncommon, and you can easily achieve 100% Lokk uptimes where it's not as easily obtained when using War Machine. I don't know of any trial teams that actually have issues getting enough synergies for a 100% Lokk uptime.
It really depends on the Trial. In vAS+2 even with a Necro or NB bow/bow build (where a majority are Mag DPS), you wouldn't want Lokke. You'd definitely want WM or MA (mag version) spread out through the group. But if you're doing vSS, you'd probably want a majority in Lokke as you're basically stacked a majority of the time (synergies easy to come by).
So really, it's best to keep both sets available (among others) to easily swap when you know one is going to perform better than the other in a situation.
That's a really good point. I'll have to start busting out my MA when I run vAS with my main guild.1 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »I think it's fine. War Machine can really provide 30 seconds of Major Slayer as it also provides 2 allies with the buff. The only problem with WM, in my opinion, is that it is proc'd by using an Ultimate which really only makes it useful for Nightblades...though other classes can still use it but they don't have the cheap, useful ultimate like the NB.
Templars and Wardens both have cheap, useful ultimates that can be paired with this set just as successfully.Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"0 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭I think WM/MA, with a couple exceptions, is better suited for small group play like dungeons or arenas. There are a couple of trial situations where the group is too spread out to get regular synergies, but for the most part Lokk is going to be superior in a trial. In small group situations the lack of a synergy prerequisite makes WM/MA a little easier to use, considering there are fewer synergies overall.Edited by Kahnak on February 12, 2020 6:38PMTombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"0
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xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭War Machine has gone more into a niche use IMO now, vs. go-to set. Though the niche is a pretty big one IMO.
One, you need a cheap ult, like NB, but Warden bear, or Templar sweeps, but anyone using dawnbreaker is OK, if not quite as cheap as NB or Warden ultis.
If you are in a small group, especially with magicka builds, you can give the buff to them often enough to be useful and might not be getting synergies at the pace you would for a trials parse anyhow.
And in some trial situations, for example we have our group of 3 doing the downstairs in vSS HM has one person wearing war marchine (the NB) to give the other two DDs the buff. Or as some have pointed out, trials like vAS where you are spread out and not getting fed consistent synergies.
Something to be said for building your group out as well. I'd do more DPS getting the buff from someone else if I got the benefit of a different 5 pc on top of it.
I do think that they should increase the time it lasts a few seconds on war machine and master arch however to help it even up some vs lokke.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC1 -
Raudgrani✭✭✭✭✭
✭A bit "necro" here, but Warmachine on a Stamplar with Deadly Strike seems to work very well in 4 man content, at least if there's not too much to synergize, obviously. For trial settings and dummy parses, Relequen is of course the way to go. You get ultimate for Empowering Sweeps up so fast, that you have a very good uptime. If you have an old WM set, by all means try it - especially if you are in a group where members have no own access to Major Slayer.
On console, so I'm speaking out of "what it feels like", but it sure feels way stronger than I first expected.0
