as per the dev's comments in the live stream animation cancelling does not increase dps or speed up damage just the perception of it, the animation is client side the server still carries out the skill it its entirety

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

as per the dev's comments in the live stream animation cancelling does not increase dps or speed up damage just the perception of it, the animation is client side the server still carries out the skill it its entirety

@Alienoutlaw

That is not totally true. AC can increase DPS in two primary ways. One is that with swap cancelling, you are effectively speeding up your rotation, or to be more accurate, you are not letting it slow down when you swap. You have to swap cancel effectively to keep all your skill casts in line with global cooldowns. Otherwise, if you wait, you will lose a bit of time every time you need to swap bars. Swap cancelling is REALLY important if trying to push DPS.

Also, Bash cancelling adds a layer of DPS. Now to be candid, outside of dummy humping and some really good players using it during execute, its mostly fluff, but you can add 2-3k single target with it.

Lastly, we can certainly quibble about whether light attack weaving is animation canceling. I typically argue that it is not, because its a slightly different phenomenon, but hard to deny that the light attack animations arent clipping a bit. Typically, when we talk AC, we are talking about the skill animation getting clipped. Nevertheless, it adds a fair amount of DPS.

You sir get it! It's something people don't know about and so I made I video to try and help. As for light attack weaving, I agree it isn't animation cancelling but so many do.

The bottom line is that animation cancelling as you know improves dps but I doubt Alien will get that as the video was beyond them in the first instance.

Thoughts on the changes? Looks like animation cancel is pretty much dead af and now there is no reason for a vet PvP player to play. No skill gap. No learned mechanics to improve your combat. Just ZERGS and ZERGS of people who have absolutely no clue what they're doing.

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

as per the dev's comments in the live stream animation cancelling does not increase dps or speed up damage just the perception of it, the animation is client side the server still carries out the skill it its entirety

@Alienoutlaw

That is not totally true. AC can increase DPS in two primary ways. One is that with swap cancelling, you are effectively speeding up your rotation, or to be more accurate, you are not letting it slow down when you swap. You have to swap cancel effectively to keep all your skill casts in line with global cooldowns. Otherwise, if you wait, you will lose a bit of time every time you need to swap bars. Swap cancelling is REALLY important if trying to push DPS.

Also, Bash cancelling adds a layer of DPS. Now to be candid, outside of dummy humping and some really good players using it during execute, its mostly fluff, but you can add 2-3k single target with it.

Lastly, we can certainly quibble about whether light attack weaving is animation canceling. I typically argue that it is not, because its a slightly different phenomenon, but hard to deny that the light attack animations arent clipping a bit. Typically, when we talk AC, we are talking about the skill animation getting clipped. Nevertheless, it adds a fair amount of DPS.

You sir get it! It's something people don't know about and so I made I video to try and help. As for light attack weaving, I agree it isn't animation cancelling but so many do.

The bottom line is that animation cancelling as you know improves dps but I doubt Alien will get that as the video was beyond them in the first instance.

Thoughts on the changes? Looks like animation cancel is pretty much dead af and now there is no reason for a vet PvP player to play. No skill gap. No learned mechanics to improve your combat. Just ZERGS and ZERGS of people who have absolutely no clue what they're doing.

They've shown that the damage is in the same time as on live but all that is different is how it appears. As such, it will look slower animation wise but the damage and skill effects will be the same based on Gilliam's stream recently. As for the block change, they've shown that there was a bug before (live) where the animation plays but the mitigation isn't applied and so it should function the same but will again look slower.

All in all, I think they're trying to simplify it in that you can clearly see what happens rather than live which for some newer people is confusing. If it remains functionally the same as live and what they've show and explained then I think it can't hurt.

Yourself?

This is the main point that people fail to grasp. There is no advanced technique to master amd there is no unique skill gap that "animation canceling" produces to create some assumed layer of depth.

Block when you need to block
Dodge when you need to dodge
Make full use of the GCD when possible
Make sure you are on the right bar when the GCD is up
Make sure to incorporate a light attack before every skill

Congratulations, you are likely animation canceling.

Outside of that, there is absolutely no benefit to canceling the recovery animations of skills that occur during the GCD refresh. It does not expedite a rotation, it does not increase damage, it does not allow you to circumvent the GCD. Zos is not "removing" animation canceling because animation canceling is not something that can be removed by pure virtue of the combat system working as intended. Wrobel said it was not intentional, not because it was a bug that couldnt be fix therefore embraced, he said it was not intentional because when all the moving intended parts of ESOs combat system, that govern the combat rules that ZOS made sure were in place, superfluous animations were inevitably going to clip as a matter of fact, plain and simple.

Also can you link me gilliams stream please? I must have missed it.

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

as per the dev's comments in the live stream animation cancelling does not increase dps or speed up damage just the perception of it, the animation is client side the server still carries out the skill it its entirety

@Alienoutlaw

That is not totally true. AC can increase DPS in two primary ways. One is that with swap cancelling, you are effectively speeding up your rotation, or to be more accurate, you are not letting it slow down when you swap. You have to swap cancel effectively to keep all your skill casts in line with global cooldowns. Otherwise, if you wait, you will lose a bit of time every time you need to swap bars. Swap cancelling is REALLY important if trying to push DPS.

Also, Bash cancelling adds a layer of DPS. Now to be candid, outside of dummy humping and some really good players using it during execute, its mostly fluff, but you can add 2-3k single target with it.

Lastly, we can certainly quibble about whether light attack weaving is animation canceling. I typically argue that it is not, because its a slightly different phenomenon, but hard to deny that the light attack animations arent clipping a bit. Typically, when we talk AC, we are talking about the skill animation getting clipped. Nevertheless, it adds a fair amount of DPS.

You sir get it! It's something people don't know about and so I made I video to try and help. As for light attack weaving, I agree it isn't animation cancelling but so many do.

The bottom line is that animation cancelling as you know improves dps but I doubt Alien will get that as the video was beyond them in the first instance.

Thoughts on the changes? Looks like animation cancel is pretty much dead af and now there is no reason for a vet PvP player to play. No skill gap. No learned mechanics to improve your combat. Just ZERGS and ZERGS of people who have absolutely no clue what they're doing.

They've shown that the damage is in the same time as on live but all that is different is how it appears. As such, it will look slower animation wise but the damage and skill effects will be the same based on Gilliam's stream recently. As for the block change, they've shown that there was a bug before (live) where the animation plays but the mitigation isn't applied and so it should function the same but will again look slower.

All in all, I think they're trying to simplify it in that you can clearly see what happens rather than live which for some newer people is confusing. If it remains functionally the same as live and what they've show and explained then I think it can't hurt.

Yourself?

Mainly just worried that they will have effectively removed the concept almost entirely. It adds depth to the game, and getting the timing right for each skill is what keeps me interested. I'm all for the animation showing, as long as the damage hits upfront like on live. Not excited to cycle through my buffs and it take forever waiting on animations. As far as executioner 2h skill goes (what I've been using lately) it would suck to slow down how fast you can get the damage, but light attack weaving the skill can be almost as effective as block cancel anyhow. It seems if you LA weave with it you can't block cancel the animation anyhow. I could be wrong tho, but as long as LA weave is still there then at least there's a way to combo to add dps rather than cancel to increase the burst speed. I hope that makes sense?

Idk, have no access to pts as I'm console sadly.

I dont mean to be disrespectful here but this post demonstrates a keen misunderstanding of what is happening with combat system.

Animation canceling has absolutely no bearing on the timing of skills, despite what many misinformed tend to preach on these very forums.

To target your examples more specifically, if the buffs you are casting are instant cast (almost all of them are in this game) then there is no slowdown, you cast then and the GCD initializes, any animation that plays put during the GCD is entirely inconsequential 100 percent. There is a universal truth here that you can only fire off an ability on your hotbar every 1 second. Block canceling does absolutely nothing for you there except stunt your stamina regen and buy you whatever damage a bash would provide.

Executioner is also an instant cast skill, when you hit the ability, it resolves instantly, there is nothing you are going to do on your end after hitting the button that will change the cadence or time that the damage is dealt since it has already been sent to the server and is being calculated to the recipient. Light attack weaving between skills is just a matter of fact and has nothing to do nor does it interfere in any way with hitting block after the use of a skill, since light attacks occur before every skill and do not trigger the GCD. Skills cut off the light attack animation, not the other way around, therefore it is not an "either or" between light attack weaving or block canceling. Canceling does not increase any burst speed whatsoever.

Not trying to be an ass here, but this post demonstrates the damage that is caused when misinformation is spread regarding this subject. People in your postion begin to believe something that is objectively untrue, and a large part of why is how this information is communicated in game or rather, a lack thereof, compounded by boisterous, misinformed forum posts.

If you want to truly understand what is happening ask and I'll be glad to go into more detail.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

as per the dev's comments in the live stream animation cancelling does not increase dps or speed up damage just the perception of it, the animation is client side the server still carries out the skill it its entirety

@Alienoutlaw

That is not totally true. AC can increase DPS in two primary ways. One is that with swap cancelling, you are effectively speeding up your rotation, or to be more accurate, you are not letting it slow down when you swap. You have to swap cancel effectively to keep all your skill casts in line with global cooldowns. Otherwise, if you wait, you will lose a bit of time every time you need to swap bars. Swap cancelling is REALLY important if trying to push DPS.

Also, Bash cancelling adds a layer of DPS. Now to be candid, outside of dummy humping and some really good players using it during execute, its mostly fluff, but you can add 2-3k single target with it.

Lastly, we can certainly quibble about whether light attack weaving is animation canceling. I typically argue that it is not, because its a slightly different phenomenon, but hard to deny that the light attack animations arent clipping a bit. Typically, when we talk AC, we are talking about the skill animation getting clipped. Nevertheless, it adds a fair amount of DPS.

You sir get it! It's something people don't know about and so I made I video to try and help. As for light attack weaving, I agree it isn't animation cancelling but so many do.

The bottom line is that animation cancelling as you know improves dps but I doubt Alien will get that as the video was beyond them in the first instance.

Thoughts on the changes? Looks like animation cancel is pretty much dead af and now there is no reason for a vet PvP player to play. No skill gap. No learned mechanics to improve your combat. Just ZERGS and ZERGS of people who have absolutely no clue what they're doing.

They've shown that the damage is in the same time as on live but all that is different is how it appears. As such, it will look slower animation wise but the damage and skill effects will be the same based on Gilliam's stream recently. As for the block change, they've shown that there was a bug before (live) where the animation plays but the mitigation isn't applied and so it should function the same but will again look slower.

All in all, I think they're trying to simplify it in that you can clearly see what happens rather than live which for some newer people is confusing. If it remains functionally the same as live and what they've show and explained then I think it can't hurt.

Yourself?

Mainly just worried that they will have effectively removed the concept almost entirely. It adds depth to the game, and getting the timing right for each skill is what keeps me interested. I'm all for the animation showing, as long as the damage hits upfront like on live. Not excited to cycle through my buffs and it take forever waiting on animations. As far as executioner 2h skill goes (what I've been using lately) it would suck to slow down how fast you can get the damage, but light attack weaving the skill can be almost as effective as block cancel anyhow. It seems if you LA weave with it you can't block cancel the animation anyhow. I could be wrong tho, but as long as LA weave is still there then at least there's a way to combo to add dps rather than cancel to increase the burst speed. I hope that makes sense?

Idk, have no access to pts as I'm console sadly.

The only reason to ever block cancel a skill is if you in fact need to block to mitigate damage. Dont get me wrong, that right there is the most important reason AC needs to stay in the game, so you can react to changing circumstances. That said, if you are block canceling in any kind of DPS rotation, you are working against yourself. The only effect of block canceling is to stunt your stamina regen.

Bash canceling is different because it actually does damage (while still being able to stay on your GCDs of skills), but it also means one more resource pool to manage, and nothing worse than burning stamina for an extra 2-3k DPS to get caught with a stun that you can break free from. Dead/Stunned DPS is no DPS. .

You sir are 100% correct. You find you gain little in pve beyond bar swap cancelling