Is the purpose of the PVP event to inform the casual player base about how brazen cheating now is?

oddbasket · February 2020

That white color whale on the ground with the fin and tail is the biggest cheat, pretty neat trick!

daemonios · February 2020

During this event, on PC-EU Kaalgrontiid, a group of maybe a dozen EP were farming AP around Aleswell. When we gave chase, they retreated to a zone with a few houses and a fountain or statue and proceeded to somehow stand inside said statue, which made them impossible to target save for AoE which they could easily outheal. It took far too many of us dropping ultimates on then to finally kill them. This was 100% deliberate and should earn those clowns a temporary ban at the very least, but I for one can no longer be arsed to report these exploits. I won't be PvPing after the event ends anyway, as I quit Cyrodiil in 2016 after a particularly disgusting few months of cheating and exploiting going rampant with no acknowledgement from ZOS.

For what it's worth, if ZOS want to keep their no naming & shaming policy, they should at least publish aggregate numbers regarding suspensions and bans due to cheating. That might make cheaters less brazen, and show the rest of the player base that something is actually being done about it.

Nomadic_Atmoran · February 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

Its been a thing for almost 6 years. If ZOS wanted to "fix it" they've had plenty of opportunities and never took it.

If ZOS wanted to fix Mount Stamina bug... or Random-Normal-Port-to-Pledge... Oh they did! But it took them forever, so honestly, basing anything off ZOS's credibility in fixing anything in a timely fashion is a weak argument.

Its not a bug. They have openly spoken about the things they do want to fix in PvP at length for years. Considering how hard your pushing this nonsense Im going to go ahead and assume you don't PvP and arguing with you about it is a waste of time.

Door camping in the IC sewers isn't a bug either. But it's cheese that's not good for the game.

Door Camping can't be prevented by the people stepping through the door. Players hiding inside the keep after its been flipped can be. Again, this is a non-issue for anyone that actually regularly PvPs. If you clear the keep you wont have to worry about it being flipped on you by campers. Its not the campers fault that you didn't bother to clear the site before moving on.

Mr_Walker · February 2020

I love gaming forums, there's always at least one person who is willing to defend any exploit in the game.

Dusk_Coven · February 2020

daemonios wrote: »

For what it's worth, if ZOS want to keep their no naming & shaming policy, they should at least publish aggregate numbers regarding suspensions and bans due to cheating. That might make cheaters less brazen, and show the rest of the player base that something is actually being done about it.

A lot of games do this -- reporting number of bans and bots and such. Still waiting to hear of any actual bans from the costume exploit...

Dusk_Coven · February 2020

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

Its been a thing for almost 6 years. If ZOS wanted to "fix it" they've had plenty of opportunities and never took it.

If ZOS wanted to fix Mount Stamina bug... or Random-Normal-Port-to-Pledge... Oh they did! But it took them forever, so honestly, basing anything off ZOS's credibility in fixing anything in a timely fashion is a weak argument.

Its not a bug. They have openly spoken about the things they do want to fix in PvP at length for years. Considering how hard your pushing this nonsense Im going to go ahead and assume you don't PvP and arguing with you about it is a waste of time.

Door camping in the IC sewers isn't a bug either. But it's cheese that's not good for the game.

Door Camping can't be prevented by the people stepping through the door. Players hiding inside the keep after its been flipped can be. Again, this is a non-issue for anyone that actually regularly PvPs. If you clear the keep you wont have to worry about it being flipped on you by campers. Its not the campers fault that you didn't bother to clear the site before moving on.

Fair enough. Basically you are saying there's a case for this not being cheesy.
And I will agree that sometimes "cheese" can be subjective -- are ball groups too cheesy? That can depend on who you ask. Maybe depends on how it's set up like during the early Necromancer days.
The OP had an experience where it was so cheesy it looked like a cheat (assuming he is mistaken that it's a cheat). That I think puts it too close to the line due to overall gameplay experience.
And then there's the question of why everyone else isn't always doing it. Too cheesy maybe?

Nomadic_Atmoran · February 2020

Mr_Walker wrote: »

I love gaming forums, there's always at least one person who is willing to defend any exploit in the game.

There is no evidence of an exploit here. Players entering a keep before it flips, finding themselves unable to confront the large zerg sometimes hide. It is up to the zerg to make sure they got everyone before they leave. ZOS has never claimed this tactic to be an exploit and while it can be frustrating, PvPers in general do not see this as an issue because simply throwing caltrops in the hiding spots through out the keep prevents this issue.

AlnilamE · February 2020

Mr_Walker wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

DelosTheta wrote: »

Either it's true, and it's a shame, or it's false, and it's also a shame.

THIS.
Even if it could be done without cheating... it's just so stupid that you can do it like this.

What? Stay hidden in a keep and flip it after the attackers leave? How is that 'stupid?'

Been seeing this too much lately. Maybe not stupid, but I hope zos fixes this. If it's not an exploit it's its first cousin.

It's the attackers' job to properly sweep the keep when they take it.

If they are too sloppy to find people stealthing, that's on them.

Sephyr · February 2020

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

I love gaming forums, there's always at least one person who is willing to defend any exploit in the game.

There is no evidence of an exploit here. Players entering a keep before it flips, finding themselves unable to confront the large zerg sometimes hide. It is up to the zerg to make sure they got everyone before they leave. ZOS has never claimed this tactic to be an exploit and while it can be frustrating, PvPers in general do not see this as an issue because simply throwing caltrops in the hiding spots through out the keep prevents this issue.

They won't though. Honestly I see this tactic more than I see people using exploits. I'm one of those few that looks for the leftovers because he's late to the party and half the time I find a small group, post about it in zone and then listen to the crickets and watch as they take the keep from the inside-out. As for the evidence bit, there's not enough for me to say either way because camping is pretty much commonplace in every faction.

Dracofyre · February 2020

speaking of diapers? was it red and had long braided ponytail, with heavy mask?
i get shotted thru the wall, extreme long range. no way anyone can see me that far.

zaria · February 2020

Ackwalan wrote: »

Sorry, your one screenshot proves nothing. It doesn't show if the sides are down, only that the FD is up. It doesn't show how long the keep was closed, it is not uncommon for a group to hide inside a keep and take it from the inside. I've been in groups that waited 10-15 minuets after a keep unflagged just to take it.

Yes people cheat, people also can take one screenshot and claim anything.

If keep is well defended its more common to take the side doors than the main gate as its harder for defenders to do counter battery fire.
And yes you can hide inside keeps.

MaskedHuman · February 2020

(:

f047ys3v3n · February 2020

Seems like a lot of other folks have seen this door hack / teleport thing lately.

I think the badass L2P people are breaking their unwritten pledge with ZOS to not be punished for cheating as long as they are sneaky, don't hand out the how-too's very freely, and come around on the forums to shout down those who cry foul and say cheats aren't a thing.

Ackwalan · February 2020

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Seems like a lot of other folks have seen this door hack / teleport thing lately.

I think the badass L2P people are breaking their unwritten pledge with ZOS to not be punished for cheating as long as they are sneaky, don't hand out the how-too's very freely, and come around on the forums to shout down those who cry foul and say cheats aren't a thing.

Your screenshot doesn't show any cheating. From your screenshot we can see the fd is closed, on a flagged keep, with 5 ep on the flag. People do cheat, but you show no proof.

joseayalac · February 2020

l2p ty

xXMeowMeowXx · February 2020

OP accusations of players cheating are very serious and should not be done lightly.

Only ZoS can state if something is cheating or not.

You need to have a 100% video proof of the offenders and the alleged cheating, to see if that is what is really going on. That way ZoS and the Devs can decide on the matter.

Also, you’re pretty much breaking the TOS with this. @f047ys3v3n

Now, I have no faith in ZOS to ban any of these guys though their in game system but if you want some names I can give you 4 or 5 though e-mail. You can ban them and give me their stuff as a thanks.

I would suggest you remove that part and go about things in the right manner. Not attacking, just sayin’

Joy_Division · February 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

DelosTheta wrote: »

Either it's true, and it's a shame, or it's false, and it's also a shame.

THIS.
Even if it could be done without cheating... it's just so stupid that you can do it like this.

What? Stay hidden in a keep and flip it after the attackers leave? How is that 'stupid?'

I'm amazed everyone isn't running a stealth build. Just stay hidden until the enemy has to go on a bio break. THIS IS ESO PVP FOLKS! Whoever's wearing an adult diaper wins!

Here's a fundamental difference between PvE and PvP -- and probably why some people prefer PvE a lot.
PvE -- We cheesed this encounter. ZOS! Fix it!
PvP -- We cheesed this encounter. Shh!

I can't say I keep up with all the mass banning across multiple platforms for PvEers cheesing their way through Trials, whether to get skins or, more disreputably, to make money to get other people skins, but it has definitely happened numerous times that you might want to stop throwing rocks since the PvE House is made of glass.

Dusk_Coven · February 2020

Joy_Division wrote: »

I can't say I keep up with all the mass banning across multiple platforms for PvEers cheesing their way through Trials, whether to get skins or, more disreputably, to make money to get other people skins, but it has definitely happened numerous times that you might want to stop throwing rocks since the PvE House is made of glass.

Selling carries? Not against TOS so if anyone got banned it'd be very interesting https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6480483/#Comment_6480483

If there were bans -- great. But can ZOS give us numbers so everyone knows it's actually happening?

D0PAMINE · February 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I can't say I keep up with all the mass banning across multiple platforms for PvEers cheesing their way through Trials, whether to get skins or, more disreputably, to make money to get other people skins, but it has definitely happened numerous times that you might want to stop throwing rocks since the PvE House is made of glass.

Selling carries? Not against TOS so if anyone got banned it'd be very interesting https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6480483/#Comment_6480483

If there were bans -- great. But can ZOS give us numbers so everyone knows it's actually happening?

I think he os implying selling carries while using exploits, and how they are not mentioned as frequently on the forums as a PvP exploit would be, the reason being that one situation has two human enemies, amd the other, a Player and a scripted target. So one game mode has more of a spotlight than the other, reguardless of popularity.

a_salty_pirate · February 2020

Hi, I'm part of the guild group that flipped this keep and I just think you should know that almost all of the information in this post is false or misleading.

When we flipped the keep last night a well known 1vXer and their group were inside the keep, our group knowing that said group would happily farm the rest of AD in there for hours (which they did) left to go get AP elsewhere. We even whispered said 1vXer to tell them to have fun (they probably did).

They did not just 'teleport through the door' they were inside the whole time.
I was actually recording all of this too, just FYI.

Secondly, they are a well formed small man group with extremely high survivabilty, strong healers and burst damage. If you're unaware of these groups they're experienced PvPers using various overperforming builds/sets/combos that are in the meta right now to stay alive but still do incredibly high burst damage to a single target or to all targets in a small area.

As for the "taking basically no damage from all our particularly robust counter siege" You can siege them all you want, but they'll have a siege shield (reduces siege damage by 50%) and immediately have a healer purge the DoT/effects and/or remain mobile so as not to be hit by it at all.

These kinds of groups/players are common and nothing about what they do is 'cheating' it's simply knowing what's currently over performing in the meta and using it.

As a matter of fact 'cheating' in this game hasn't really been existent for years since ZOS locked down the API that the addons use following the Miat's PvP alerts fiasco and server->client validation years ago following the cheat engine mess.

Most of what people think is 'cheating' is usually just in depth knowledge of powerful combos/builds etc. that people are uninformed of. I remember when people kept claiming that bomb groups with 20k gravity crushes were cheaters purely because they didn't understand that harmony was a thing.

I would apologise to all the puggles for knowingly leaving you to be farmed by said group, but it's midyear mayhem.

AP's all that matters in midyear mayhem man.

doomette · February 2020

AlnilamE wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

DelosTheta wrote: »

Either it's true, and it's a shame, or it's false, and it's also a shame.

THIS.
Even if it could be done without cheating... it's just so stupid that you can do it like this.

What? Stay hidden in a keep and flip it after the attackers leave? How is that 'stupid?'

Been seeing this too much lately. Maybe not stupid, but I hope zos fixes this. If it's not an exploit it's its first cousin.

It's the attackers' job to properly sweep the keep when they take it.

If they are too sloppy to find people stealthing, that's on them.

I figured that out pretty quickly and ugh, too many times I’m the only one looking even though my chances of surviving an encounter aren’t great. And while I find it a bit obnoxious to do a sweep, hiding in wait is a legit and smart tactic .

Sephyr · February 2020

a_salty_pirate wrote: »

Hi, I'm part of the guild group that flipped this keep and I just think you should know that almost all of the information in this post is false or misleading.

When we flipped the keep last night a well known 1vXer and their group were inside the keep, our group knowing that said group would happily farm the rest of AD in there for hours (which they did) left to go get AP elsewhere. We even whispered said 1vXer to tell them to have fun (they probably did).

They did not just 'teleport through the door' they were inside the whole time.
I was actually recording all of this too, just FYI.

Secondly, they are a well formed small man group with extremely high survivabilty, strong healers and burst damage. If you're unaware of these groups they're experienced PvPers using various overperforming builds/sets/combos that are in the meta right now to stay alive but still do incredibly high burst damage to a single target or to all targets in a small area.

As for the "taking basically no damage from all our particularly robust counter siege" You can siege them all you want, but they'll have a siege shield (reduces siege damage by 50%) and immediately have a healer purge the DoT/effects and/or remain mobile so as not to be hit by it at all.

These kinds of groups/players are common and nothing about what they do is 'cheating' it's simply knowing what's currently over performing in the meta and using it.

As a matter of fact 'cheating' in this game hasn't really been existent for years since ZOS locked down the API that the addons use following the Miat's PvP alerts fiasco and server->client validation years ago following the cheat engine mess.

Most of what people think is 'cheating' is usually just in depth knowledge of powerful combos/builds etc. that people are uninformed of. I remember when people kept claiming that bomb groups with 20k gravity crushes were cheaters purely because they didn't understand that harmony was a thing.

I would apologise to all the puggles for knowingly leaving you to be farmed by said group, but it's midyear mayhem.

AP's all that matters in midyear mayhem man.

Pretty much what I expected, which was why I refused to jump to conclusions. Though that's nice to hear about Harmony. I didn't expect performance out of that, but now I'm intrigued.

Hallothiel · February 2020

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

Door Camping can't be prevented by the people stepping through the door. Players hiding inside the keep after its been flipped can be. Again, this is a non-issue for anyone that actually regularly PvPs. If you clear the keep you wont have to worry about it being flipped on you by campers. Its not the campers fault that you didn't bother to clear the site before moving on.

^^This. Hiding is not an exploit - there are skills given (quite a few!) to enable players to find those in stealth. If you don’t take the time to check a taken keep, that’s on you.

Door camping? Cheating & scummy.

Mr_Walker · February 2020

Hallothiel wrote: »

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

Door Camping can't be prevented by the people stepping through the door. Players hiding inside the keep after its been flipped can be. Again, this is a non-issue for anyone that actually regularly PvPs. If you clear the keep you wont have to worry about it being flipped on you by campers. Its not the campers fault that you didn't bother to clear the site before moving on.

^^This. Hiding is not an exploit - there are skills given (quite a few!) to enable players to find those in stealth. If you don’t take the time to check a taken keep, that’s on you.

Door camping? Cheating & scummy.

The issue is that you can use this to basically hit the spawn points for anyone who spawns in, whilst having others in your group flip it quickly from the inside. Even a cursory think about the way the transitus system is set up has you realise that you are not supposed to be able to spawn in and be under attack.

Env_t · February 2020

OP, you was catched on a lie
you deserve a temp ban imo

Naftal · February 2020

Is the front door even actually closed? It's been so laggy I've seen open doors still have the shut models and hp left and doors that just won't open even though their hp is long gone.

VaranisArano · February 2020

Its possible its cheating?

Its also possible its:
A. The players in the raid under siege have good healers. As a raid healer myself, I imagine we look frustratingly impervious to concentrated siege fire to our enemies all the while I'm keeping a nervous eye on my magicka bar and my allies' health. Sieger/besieged is a very different perspective on damage done - you see how little damage you are doing and I see how much damage I'm healing/cleansing.
B. Were the players inside the keep for sure the same players who had sieged the outside of the keep? This cheat seems to rely on the assumption that the guild group bypassed the inner door/walls of the keep, but - and maybe I missed it - were they for sure the same group of players? Same names or same guild tabards? If they weren't, its likely the group on the inner were already in place having hidden when the enemy took the keep - a possibility I think everyone else has covered.

For what its worth, actually bypassing walls/doors to enter a keep is an exploit. So if the same group that sieged the outer did in fact enter the inner keep without breaching the walls/doors or going through an already created breach, that would be an exploit.

BoraxFlux · February 2020

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

...Draw distance seems to have been stealthily decreased by ZOS recently (I expect this is for performance reasons and annoyingly I often find myself having to fire siege blindly) ...

Others have already given more input about your post, so I'll just take this on:

Don't exactly know what you mean by drawing distance of a siege engine, screenshot could be helpful here, if you say you can't see a thing when sieging, it might be because there is an object close to your siege that influences your line of sight when firing. E.g when the back of the siege is placed against or too close to a pillar or battlements. Relocate the siege, or make sure you are zoomed out:

From one of the corner towers of Arrius:

daemonios · February 2020

BoraxFlux wrote: »

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

...Draw distance seems to have been stealthily decreased by ZOS recently (I expect this is for performance reasons and annoyingly I often find myself having to fire siege blindly) ...

Others have already given more input about your post, so I'll just take this on:

Don't exactly know what you mean by drawing distance of a siege engine, screenshot could be helpful here, if you say you can't see a thing when sieging, it might be because there is an object close to your siege that influences your line of sight when firing. E.g when the back of the siege is placed against or too close to a pillar or battlements. Relocate the siege, check your siege view-setting in Settings.

I don't think they meant the camera being forced close to the siege by an obstacle. The issue seems to be that players aren't rendered at the mid/far end of the siege's range. I have also noticed that sometimes I need to move the camera around to try and make enemies pop up on screen, but I'm just there for the event so I can't say whether anything has changed.

BoraxFlux · February 2020

daemonios wrote: »

I don't think they meant the camera being forced close to the siege by an obstacle. The issue seems to be that players aren't rendered at the mid/far end of the siege's range. I have also noticed that sometimes I need to move the camera around to try and make enemies pop up on screen, but I'm just there for the event so I can't say whether anything has changed.

Ah

Think I've grown too used to that, shooting based on assumptions and if damage numbers pop up: success & rinse and repeat.

EDIT: proper BBcode.