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Is the purpose of the PVP event to inform the casual player base about how brazen cheating now is?
f047ys3v3n
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It has been a long time since the meteors rained down from flying players in ESO PVP. That was May of 2016 and the whole player base was made quite aware of the cheating problem at that time. For those who don't know, the two who did that had been trying to get ZOS to address cheating for some time with no luck and so decided to force the issue. Most cheaters are much more careful. Usually, they are just tankier than any tank, higher dps than any dps, have limitless sustain, and tell you that you need to L2P.
I have noticed a few new wrinkles from time to time though. Some players seem to be able to see you when in stealth or cloaked from tremendous distances and also seem to be able to target and gap close to you while you are not visible. Neat trick. Others can clearly glitch though walls to get into keeps and make quite a ruckus when you are trying to counter siege since 10x players beating on them is often not sufficient to kill them or stop them from killing many of the siegers. There has also been a rise in folks who don't seem to be able to be CC'd and are just a bit faster than seems to be plausible. These guys are mostly very careful though. After all, that guy who wrecked your keep defense could have been hiding in your keep for the last 2 hours since his alliance last held it. He wasn't, but I'm sure he will say he was.
Practices evidently changed at some point since the last time I played though because now whole guilds are evidently willing to run right though into sealed up keeps in the middle of a siege in full view of everybody. I guess they were in a rush and thought what the hell, or maybe they do it every day now, it has been a while since I played pvp. That is what went down last night though.
For those of you that want the whole story, last night, in Laatvulon the group I was with decided to be a pest and strike red deep in their territory. Frankly, we thought the mad powerful cheating guild that had just beat our alliance senseless, pushed us to our gates, and taken our to give it to blue had left since we hadn't seen them in 10 min. We decided to strike deep at Arrius. We took it with speed and just got the doors up when we found that evidently the cheating badasses had not left but must have been playing farm the blues with yellows flag. We evidently had annoyed them and they showed up mad at our insolence. I assure you, if we had known you cheating jerks were still on we would not have dared. We thought you left to rick roll another campaign, switched alliances to take everything back in this one, or were being serviced by ZOS's staff. Anyway, the cheaters sieged up the outer taking basically no damage from all our particularly robust counter siege as is always the case. You know, they didn't even bother backing up and hitting from range, just pilled on the door and took all that oil from the center and fire bolts from the side towers like nothing. It was as fast as if nobody was defending. Once they breached I high tailed it to the postern as they surged toward inner keep door thinking they would probably wipe up around the outer before sieging up the inner. That is when things got real interesting. Upon entry I was greeted by the entire raid already inside. WTF. The door was up and a full health. They hadn't even broken stride but had just cheated right though the front door in front of everybody. The whole raid was in on it. They didn't bother hiding it at all because you know, what is ZOS going to do. Nothing.
Honestly, being a player who constantly harps on ZOS about their cheating problem and is under no illusions about it, I was still shocked because:
1) The whole guild was in on it. Honestly, I thought even in the best PVP guilds not everybody was given access to the special sauce. I can tell you in the AD guilds I run with, nobody has ever offered me the sauce or even admitted using it (though I am quite sure some do.)
2) That they made no effort to hide it at all, they just zerged straight in despite all the witnesses and the fact that, at a time, taking the keep quickly didn't even seem particularly important from a strategy standpoint. This must just be they way they roll now.
Now, I have no faith in ZOS to ban any of these guys though their in game system but if you want some names I can give you 4 or 5 though e-mail. You can ban them and give me their stuff as a thanks. I expect you already know plenty about all these guys though. You don't become a grand overlord cheating all the way with nobody reporting you. My only hope is that part of the new game backend will be some anti-cheat stuff because apparently the cheaters aren't even bothering to pretend anymore. Also, my buddies and I think that these same guys have figured out a 3rd way to que as AD into the campaign and count against our pop numbers instead of their own. I expect you won't punish that this time either.
I have noticed a few new wrinkles from time to time though. Some players seem to be able to see you when in stealth or cloaked from tremendous distances and also seem to be able to target and gap close to you while you are not visible. Neat trick. Others can clearly glitch though walls to get into keeps and make quite a ruckus when you are trying to counter siege since 10x players beating on them is often not sufficient to kill them or stop them from killing many of the siegers. There has also been a rise in folks who don't seem to be able to be CC'd and are just a bit faster than seems to be plausible. These guys are mostly very careful though. After all, that guy who wrecked your keep defense could have been hiding in your keep for the last 2 hours since his alliance last held it. He wasn't, but I'm sure he will say he was.
Practices evidently changed at some point since the last time I played though because now whole guilds are evidently willing to run right though into sealed up keeps in the middle of a siege in full view of everybody. I guess they were in a rush and thought what the hell, or maybe they do it every day now, it has been a while since I played pvp. That is what went down last night though.
For those of you that want the whole story, last night, in Laatvulon the group I was with decided to be a pest and strike red deep in their territory. Frankly, we thought the mad powerful cheating guild that had just beat our alliance senseless, pushed us to our gates, and taken our to give it to blue had left since we hadn't seen them in 10 min. We decided to strike deep at Arrius. We took it with speed and just got the doors up when we found that evidently the cheating badasses had not left but must have been playing farm the blues with yellows flag. We evidently had annoyed them and they showed up mad at our insolence. I assure you, if we had known you cheating jerks were still on we would not have dared. We thought you left to rick roll another campaign, switched alliances to take everything back in this one, or were being serviced by ZOS's staff. Anyway, the cheaters sieged up the outer taking basically no damage from all our particularly robust counter siege as is always the case. You know, they didn't even bother backing up and hitting from range, just pilled on the door and took all that oil from the center and fire bolts from the side towers like nothing. It was as fast as if nobody was defending. Once they breached I high tailed it to the postern as they surged toward inner keep door thinking they would probably wipe up around the outer before sieging up the inner. That is when things got real interesting. Upon entry I was greeted by the entire raid already inside. WTF. The door was up and a full health. They hadn't even broken stride but had just cheated right though the front door in front of everybody. The whole raid was in on it. They didn't bother hiding it at all because you know, what is ZOS going to do. Nothing.
Honestly, being a player who constantly harps on ZOS about their cheating problem and is under no illusions about it, I was still shocked because:
1) The whole guild was in on it. Honestly, I thought even in the best PVP guilds not everybody was given access to the special sauce. I can tell you in the AD guilds I run with, nobody has ever offered me the sauce or even admitted using it (though I am quite sure some do.)
2) That they made no effort to hide it at all, they just zerged straight in despite all the witnesses and the fact that, at a time, taking the keep quickly didn't even seem particularly important from a strategy standpoint. This must just be they way they roll now.
Now, I have no faith in ZOS to ban any of these guys though their in game system but if you want some names I can give you 4 or 5 though e-mail. You can ban them and give me their stuff as a thanks. I expect you already know plenty about all these guys though. You don't become a grand overlord cheating all the way with nobody reporting you. My only hope is that part of the new game backend will be some anti-cheat stuff because apparently the cheaters aren't even bothering to pretend anymore. Also, my buddies and I think that these same guys have figured out a 3rd way to que as AD into the campaign and count against our pop numbers instead of their own. I expect you won't punish that this time either.
I am currently worried for the future of ESO. Population seems like it is in free fall and the cancellation of the North America in-person gathering feels very much like pulling the plug. Kudos on fixing the in-game economy though. Clearly whatever gold shenanigans were happening the last couple years are fixed.
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ApostateHobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yikes. How much you wanna bet there'll be somebody commenting on this that it's not cheating and just a l2p issue lol31 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sorry, your one screenshot proves nothing. It doesn't show if the sides are down, only that the FD is up. It doesn't show how long the keep was closed, it is not uncommon for a group to hide inside a keep and take it from the inside. I've been in groups that waited 10-15 minuets after a keep unflagged just to take it.
Yes people cheat, people also can take one screenshot and claim anything.49 -
x48rph✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorry, your one screenshot proves nothing. It doesn't show if the sides are down, only that the FD is up. It doesn't show how long the keep was closed, it is not uncommon for a group to hide inside a keep and take it from the inside. I've been in groups that waited 10-15 minuets after a keep unflagged just to take it.
Yes people cheat, people also can take one screenshot and claim anything.
^This
Not commenting one way or another on whether the people in the picture actually cheated or not but hiding in keeps for it to unflag and then taking from the inside is a thing. Done it with groups more than a few times so I have to remain skeptical unless you got a video of them coming through the closed door/wall/whateverEdited by x48rph on February 1, 2020 11:35PM6 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I won't say l2p cuz that's not the problem. Talk to PvPers about how that could be possible cuz I can think of at least 3 ways.
You're screenshot proves nothing.Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info16 -
BoraxFlux✭✭✭✭✭Calling players cheaters don't make them cheaters. There could be somethinh, but in your story and the image there is no blatant proof they were cheating.
Also you say you entered and found an enemy alliance already in, you haven't seen them 'passing' trough the door.
Was there a another breach @ inner?
You already stated you took Arrius quick, did your group take the time to check whether Arrius was completely empty?
Did you leave dead enemy Alliance members without bothering looking for 'leftovers' that could rez them inside Arrius?
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sorry, your one screenshot proves nothing. It doesn't show if the sides are down, only that the FD is up. It doesn't show how long the keep was closed, it is not uncommon for a group to hide inside a keep and take it from the inside. I've been in groups that waited 10-15 minuets after a keep unflagged just to take it.
Yes people cheat, people also can take one screenshot and claim anything.
This. I looked at the screen shot expecting to see something as it is easy to say whatever we want in text. Yet the SS really did not show anything.
In reality, OP needs to report them directly to Zos with the names of the alleged cheaters and explain what they were doing. Make sure to include the server/platform, time, campaign, and what character you were on at the time. Probably what keep that is as well.
Video is always great to have and be able to supply to Zos if requested but they are also able to look into some history of what happened. Threads on the subject are pretty pointless. Especially when nothing is actually demonstrated.5 -
DelosTheta✭✭✭Threads like this one, honestly, are the reason I've never played PvP. The impression I have is that the experts have all learned ways to instantly kill the unwary while remaining immune to retaliation.
When events come up and people are encouraged to play PvP, I think, of course, the pros need new people to beat up. Kind of like the fighters that play vs. favorites in boxing, or the community colleges that play against universities in football.
Maybe everything I think is wrong. But it's like I said: this same basic thread has been on here for years. Either it's true, and it's a shame, or it's false, and it's also a shame.15 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There's also this. Still waiting for @ZOS_GinaBruno to confirm it has been investigated and confirm/deny that it works, re: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/509805/laatvulon-the-entire-dc-faction-got-bootedExcept there's folk doing this deliberately (I wont' go into details for obvious reasons). It's triggerable by players, and repeatable. Don't think they'll restrict their activities to blue.0 -
witchdoctor✭✭✭✭✭
✭DelosTheta wrote: »Threads like this one, honestly, are the reason I've never played PvP.
You do realise, by that logic, according to these forums you should never do endgame as it is too toxic. You should never PUG, because either everyone is a dirt-bathing potato or some other form of anti-social jerk. You should never get into trading, because its a cabal of three people sitting on 98% of Tamriel's wealth. You should never get into ... see the pattern?15 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DelosTheta wrote: »Either it's true, and it's a shame, or it's false, and it's also a shame.
THIS.
Even if it could be done without cheating... it's just so stupid that you can do it like this.
When a win looks like it's cheating, it's probably exploiting some loophole or other.Edited by Dusk_Coven on February 2, 2020 1:24AM10 -
witchdoctor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »DelosTheta wrote: »Either it's true, and it's a shame, or it's false, and it's also a shame.
THIS.
Even if it could be done without cheating... it's just so stupid that you can do it like this.
What? Stay hidden in a keep and flip it after the attackers leave? How is that 'stupid?'14 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭witchdoctor wrote: »Dusk_Coven wrote: »DelosTheta wrote: »Either it's true, and it's a shame, or it's false, and it's also a shame.
THIS.
Even if it could be done without cheating... it's just so stupid that you can do it like this.
What? Stay hidden in a keep and flip it after the attackers leave? How is that 'stupid?'
I'm amazed everyone isn't running a stealth build. Just stay hidden until the enemy has to go on a bio break. THIS IS ESO PVP FOLKS! Whoever's wearing an adult diaper wins!
Here's a fundamental difference between PvE and PvP -- and probably why some people prefer PvE a lot.
PvE -- We cheesed this encounter. ZOS! Fix it!
PvP -- We cheesed this encounter. Shh!
Edited by Dusk_Coven on February 2, 2020 1:39AM11 -
Nomadic_Atmoran✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorry, your one screenshot proves nothing. It doesn't show if the sides are down, only that the FD is up. It doesn't show how long the keep was closed, it is not uncommon for a group to hide inside a keep and take it from the inside. I've been in groups that waited 10-15 minuets after a keep unflagged just to take it.
Yes people cheat, people also can take one screenshot and claim anything.
^This
Not commenting one way or another on whether the people in the picture actually cheated or not but hiding in keeps for it to unflag and then taking from the inside is a thing. Done it with groups more than a few times so I have to remain skeptical unless you got a video of them coming through the closed door/wall/whatever
Been seeing a lot of this tactic lately and I believe its partially because of the event. The very active servers have a lot of inexperienced players zerging about and leaving keeps immediately once they flip it. This leaves gaps within the keep for the enemy to take a squat and wait. They leap off the top of the keep and hide in an outer portion of the keep or theres always the good ole spot at the top where you can hide by leaping onto a ledge that circles the back of the inner keep. I've also seen the game spit out enemy players from the Transitus shrine after the keep was flipped because of the lag.
While I wouldn't be surprised that there is possibly some cheating going on. Players inside the inner keep flagging it while the doors are up is not necessarily and indication of it. And like others here I would assume the more likely answer to be that players that own the keep did not do a thorough job of clearing it once they capped it.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry - Laerinel Rhaev - Enrerion - Caius Berilius - Seylina Ithvala - Signa Squallrider - H'Vak the GrimjawlYynril Rothvani - Tenarei Rhaev - Bathes-In-Coin - Dazsh Ro Khar - Aredyhel - Reads-To-Frogs - Azjani Ma'LesKheshna gra-Gharbuk - Gallisten Bondurant - Aban Shahid Bakr - Etain Maquier - Atsu Kalame - Faulpia Severinus1 -
witchdoctor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »witchdoctor wrote: »Dusk_Coven wrote: »DelosTheta wrote: »Either it's true, and it's a shame, or it's false, and it's also a shame.
THIS.
Even if it could be done without cheating... it's just so stupid that you can do it like this.
What? Stay hidden in a keep and flip it after the attackers leave? How is that 'stupid?'
I'm amazed everyone isn't running a stealth build. Just stay hidden until the enemy has to go on a bio break. THIS IS ESO PVP FOLKS! Whoever's wearing an adult diaper wins!
Gotchya. It doesn't match with YOUR opinion, ergo is stupid and equates to wearing diapers.7 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭witchdoctor wrote: »Dusk_Coven wrote: »witchdoctor wrote: »Dusk_Coven wrote: »DelosTheta wrote: »Either it's true, and it's a shame, or it's false, and it's also a shame.
THIS.
Even if it could be done without cheating... it's just so stupid that you can do it like this.
What? Stay hidden in a keep and flip it after the attackers leave? How is that 'stupid?'
I'm amazed everyone isn't running a stealth build. Just stay hidden until the enemy has to go on a bio break. THIS IS ESO PVP FOLKS! Whoever's wearing an adult diaper wins!
Gotchya. It doesn't match with YOUR opinion, ergo is stupid and equates to wearing diapers.
I admit this isn't as bad as camping IC sewer doors waiting for people to be frozen in a load screen. But either way the same two things would help: stealth and not having to leave your computer in case you miss a mark and for the latter you'd have an advantage if you were wearing one of those. (in case you still missed it: it's called a hyperbole)
OK not "stupid". How about "cheesy"? Any better?
That's the OP's point -- even if it were legit, it's cheesy and not in the spirit of competition. Maybe that interesting competition is why some people go there. If EVERYONE did the same hide-in-keep tactic, it'd be interesting to see how long the concept of Cyrodiil lasts.Edited by Dusk_Coven on February 2, 2020 2:35AM2 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭witchdoctor wrote: »Dusk_Coven wrote: »DelosTheta wrote: »Either it's true, and it's a shame, or it's false, and it's also a shame.
THIS.
Even if it could be done without cheating... it's just so stupid that you can do it like this.
What? Stay hidden in a keep and flip it after the attackers leave? How is that 'stupid?'
Been seeing this too much lately. Maybe not stupid, but I hope zos fixes this. If it's not an exploit it's its first cousin.2 -
Nomadic_Atmoran✭✭✭✭✭
✭witchdoctor wrote: »Dusk_Coven wrote: »DelosTheta wrote: »Either it's true, and it's a shame, or it's false, and it's also a shame.
THIS.
Even if it could be done without cheating... it's just so stupid that you can do it like this.
What? Stay hidden in a keep and flip it after the attackers leave? How is that 'stupid?'
Been seeing this too much lately. Maybe not stupid, but I hope zos fixes this. If it's not an exploit it's its first cousin.
Its been a thing for almost 6 years. If ZOS wanted to "fix it" they've had plenty of opportunities and never took it. Any actual PvPers arent going to complain about this because they know how to deal with it. Clear the keep or outpost before you leave it.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry - Laerinel Rhaev - Enrerion - Caius Berilius - Seylina Ithvala - Signa Squallrider - H'Vak the GrimjawlYynril Rothvani - Tenarei Rhaev - Bathes-In-Coin - Dazsh Ro Khar - Aredyhel - Reads-To-Frogs - Azjani Ma'LesKheshna gra-Gharbuk - Gallisten Bondurant - Aban Shahid Bakr - Etain Maquier - Atsu Kalame - Faulpia Severinus9 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭witchdoctor wrote: »Dusk_Coven wrote: »DelosTheta wrote: »Either it's true, and it's a shame, or it's false, and it's also a shame.
THIS.
Even if it could be done without cheating... it's just so stupid that you can do it like this.
What? Stay hidden in a keep and flip it after the attackers leave? How is that 'stupid?'
Been seeing this too much lately. Maybe not stupid, but I hope zos fixes this. If it's not an exploit it's its first cousin.
Cue the "L2P" posts...
But what defenders of cheesy tactics don't understand is that it is ultimately self-destructive to perpetuate them.
If more and more people "L2P" and starts using the same tactics, fewer and fewer people will get things done and the range of activities starts to decline. To use an extreme example: Door camping in the IC. If that were even more widespread than it was during the IC event, people would just log in, see if they could do anything, and if not, log out.
Population declines. PvP people complain about population decline, and then try to create PvP opportunities by forcing other people to PvP. Then they are "surprised" that no one wants the skid row they created in PvP areas to spread any further.
If people actually resist doing cheesy things, they will just keep facing the same cheesy tactics and get frustrated because it will be at their expense all the time. So they start to leave because it's pointless. We already see that in Under-50 BG where ZOS can't separate out people who are genuinely newcomers, not just from established players but from griefers rerolling uber toons to stay there.
So again, population declines. PvP declines, etcetera.
People laughed at FO76 private instances, but I think there's a place for them. Create a private Cyrodiil, play with like-minded people and likeminded guilds. Hold each other accountable.
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newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭witchdoctor wrote: »
You do realize, by that logic, according to these forums you should never do endgame as it is too toxic.
We all define "endgame" differently.
I do not enjoy PvP.
I do not enjoy trials,
i do not enjoy super-"challenging" content that requires BIS and scary twitch reflexes and hours of farming/honing the above.
I enjoy exploring, crafting, learning stuff, slowly accumulating housing & the occasional housing contest. Helping random lowbies in chat with crafted gear, Fishing, revisiting parts of the "world" I've not seen in a long time. I enjoy most events - this last time I tried BG, died a lot but very much didn't take it seriously. For more than a short time, I would likely hate the heck out of it.
For a while I was pretty intense into Fallout 76 and then Borderlands 3 (long story short: a disappointment) and now I'm back playing around with the idea of a Magicka Tank (got a sorc lookin for a newish gig) and WW builds.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis4 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »Its been a thing for almost 6 years. If ZOS wanted to "fix it" they've had plenty of opportunities and never took it.
If ZOS wanted to fix Mount Stamina bug... or Random-Normal-Port-to-Pledge... Oh they did! But it took them forever, so honestly, basing anything off ZOS's credibility in fixing anything in a timely fashion is a weak argument.4 -
xandervalo✭✭✭f047ys3v3n wrote: »It has been a long time since the meteors rained down from flying players in ESO PVP. That was May of 2016 and the whole player base was made quite aware of the cheating problem at that time. For those who don't know, the two who did that had been trying to get ZOS to address cheating for some time with no luck and so decided to force the issue. Most cheaters are much more careful. Usually, they are just tankier than any tank, higher dps than any dps, have limitless sustain, and tell you that you need to L2P.
I have noticed a few new wrinkles from time to time though. Some players seem to be able to see you when in stealth or cloaked from tremendous distances and also seem to be able to target and gap close to you while you are not visible. Neat trick. Others can clearly glitch though walls to get into keeps and make quite a ruckus when you are trying to counter siege since 10x players beating on them is often not sufficient to kill them or stop them from killing many of the siegers. There has also been a rise in folks who don't seem to be able to be CC'd and are just a bit faster than seems to be plausible. These guys are mostly very careful though. After all, that guy who wrecked your keep defense could have been hiding in your keep for the last 2 hours since his alliance last held it. He wasn't, but I'm sure he will say he was.
Practices evidently changed at some point since the last time I played though because now whole guilds are evidently willing to run right though into sealed up keeps in the middle of a siege in full view of everybody. I guess they were in a rush and thought what the hell, or maybe they do it every day now, it has been a while since I played pvp. That is what went down last night though.
For those of you that want the whole story, last night, in Laatvulon the group I was with decided to be a pest and strike red deep in their territory. Frankly, we thought the mad powerful cheating guild that had just beat our alliance senseless, pushed us to our gates, and taken our to give it to blue had left since we hadn't seen them in 10 min. We decided to strike deep at Arrius. We took it with speed and just got the doors up when we found that evidently the cheating badasses had not left but must have been playing farm the blues with yellows flag. We evidently had annoyed them and they showed up mad at our insolence. I assure you, if we had known you cheating jerks were still on we would not have dared. We thought you left to rick roll another campaign, switched alliances to take everything back in this one, or were being serviced by ZOS's staff. Anyway, the cheaters sieged up the outer taking basically no damage from all our particularly robust counter siege as is always the case. You know, they didn't even bother backing up and hitting from range, just pilled on the door and took all that oil from the center and fire bolts from the side towers like nothing. It was as fast as if nobody was defending. Once they breached I high tailed it to the postern as they surged toward inner keep door thinking they would probably wipe up around the outer before sieging up the inner. That is when things got real interesting. Upon entry I was greeted by the entire raid already inside. WTF. The door was up and a full health. They hadn't even broken stride but had just cheated right though the front door in front of everybody. The whole raid was in on it. They didn't bother hiding it at all because you know, what is ZOS going to do. Nothing.
Honestly, being a player who constantly harps on ZOS about their cheating problem and is under no illusions about it, I was still shocked because:
1) The whole guild was in on it. Honestly, I thought even in the best PVP guilds not everybody was given access to the special sauce. I can tell you in the AD guilds I run with, nobody has ever offered me the sauce or even admitted using it (though I am quite sure some do.)
2) That they made no effort to hide it at all, they just zerged straight in despite all the witnesses and the fact that, at a time, taking the keep quickly didn't even seem particularly important from a strategy standpoint. This must just be they way they roll now.
Now, I have no faith in ZOS to ban any of these guys though their in game system but if you want some names I can give you 4 or 5 though e-mail. You can ban them and give me their stuff as a thanks. I expect you already know plenty about all these guys though. You don't become a grand overlord cheating all the way with nobody reporting you. My only hope is that part of the new game backend will be some anti-cheat stuff because apparently the cheaters aren't even bothering to pretend anymore. Also, my buddies and I think that these same guys have figured out a 3rd way to que as AD into the campaign and count against our pop numbers instead of their own. I expect you won't punish that this time either.
bro i thought today i was just seeing things but i watched a dc run into far with a door at 75%. he used the door and got in.6 -
f047ys3v3n✭✭✭✭✭
✭Calling players cheaters don't make them cheaters. There could be somethinh, but in your story and the image there is no blatant proof they were cheating.
Also you say you entered and found an enemy alliance already in, you haven't seen them 'passing' trough the door.
Was there a another breach @ inner?
You already stated you took Arrius quick, did your group take the time to check whether Arrius was completely empty?
Did you leave dead enemy Alliance members without bothering looking for 'leftovers' that could rez them inside Arrius?
Well, in a way I may have seen them "pass though" though at the time, I thought they were just leaving the draw distance. When the EP cheaters were on ram at the outer door, I was hitting them with a fire ballista from the corner tower. They breached and headed straight for the inner door. I thought they were clearing the porch and going to set up siege and probably also sweep the outer. As I high tailed it for the postern they appeared to leave draw distance on the porch. Draw distance seems to have been stealthily decreased by ZOS recently (I expect this is for performance reasons and annoyingly I often find myself having to fire siege blindly) so I didn't think that much of it until I got though the postern and immediately found a group of roughly the same number of reds inside. Of course the door was at full, neither postern was breached, and only a few souls were on the porch where the whole raid had appeared to leave draw distance. I expect their little teleport cheat looks a lot like a group leaving draw distance. I suppose that makes sense. It is not like there is going to be some special portal animation for the cheat or something.
Now, it is possible that that whole red raid of badasses that shrugged off a mighty fine counter seige on the outer did leave draw distance on the porch then suddenly caught fear and ran off in the opposite direction from me and jumped out the keep. I guess it is also possible that a second group of exactly the same number of badasses were so terrified of us when we initially captured the thing that they hid despite outnumbering us, being highly organized, and also being the sort of folks only to take 885 damage from a draining shot while not blocking. This group must have then decided I guess to pop out mid siege just exactly when most of the defenders came into the inner keep from the outer making them have more defenders to kill and before they would get any reinforcements to help them take the keep. LOL.
If you would like to believe all that go for it. It takes a mighty fine bit of faith. I would suggest you would be better off just saying I made the whole thing up. As for not having a video, you know that ZOS wouldn't let you see it if I had it anyway don't you? It would have names, they would ban me and have the video taken down from YouTube as they usually do.
Really, this isn't about proving what I saw, this is about marveling at how incredibly bold people have become with their cheats. A leading PCNA guild is not even bothering to try to hide it. They are just teleporting into keeps in full view of 15 enemy players. They are clearly not afraid of being caught. That is the point we have reached.I am currently worried for the future of ESO. Population seems like it is in free fall and the cancellation of the North America in-person gathering feels very much like pulling the plug. Kudos on fixing the in-game economy though. Clearly whatever gold shenanigans were happening the last couple years are fixed.7 -
witchdoctor✭✭✭✭✭
✭newtinmpls wrote: »witchdoctor wrote: »
You do realize, by that logic, according to these forums you should never do endgame as it is too toxic.
We all define "endgame" differently.
I do not enjoy PvP.
I do not enjoy trials,
i do not enjoy super-"challenging" content that requires BIS and scary twitch reflexes and hours of farming/honing the above.
I enjoy exploring, crafting, learning stuff, slowly accumulating housing & the occasional housing contest. Helping random lowbies in chat with crafted gear, Fishing, revisiting parts of the "world" I've not seen in a long time. I enjoy most events - this last time I tried BG, died a lot but very much didn't take it seriously. For more than a short time, I would likely hate the heck out of it.
For a while I was pretty intense into Fallout 76 and then Borderlands 3 (long story short: a disappointment) and now I'm back playing around with the idea of a Magicka Tank (got a sorc lookin for a newish gig) and WW builds.
You managed to completely miss the point.
If you read on the forums how toxic Housing and Farming was, you may have been scared off from giving it a go.
But, if you realised the forums are where the actual (if any) toxicity sits, you'd find the chances of running into BIG BAD THING ON FORUMS is likely low.0 -
Nomadic_Atmoran✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »Its been a thing for almost 6 years. If ZOS wanted to "fix it" they've had plenty of opportunities and never took it.
If ZOS wanted to fix Mount Stamina bug... or Random-Normal-Port-to-Pledge... Oh they did! But it took them forever, so honestly, basing anything off ZOS's credibility in fixing anything in a timely fashion is a weak argument.
Its not a bug. They have openly spoken about the things they do want to fix in PvP at length for years. Considering how hard your pushing this nonsense Im going to go ahead and assume you don't PvP and arguing with you about it is a waste of time.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry - Laerinel Rhaev - Enrerion - Caius Berilius - Seylina Ithvala - Signa Squallrider - H'Vak the GrimjawlYynril Rothvani - Tenarei Rhaev - Bathes-In-Coin - Dazsh Ro Khar - Aredyhel - Reads-To-Frogs - Azjani Ma'LesKheshna gra-Gharbuk - Gallisten Bondurant - Aban Shahid Bakr - Etain Maquier - Atsu Kalame - Faulpia Severinus3 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭witchdoctor wrote: »Dusk_Coven wrote: »DelosTheta wrote: »Either it's true, and it's a shame, or it's false, and it's also a shame.
THIS.
Even if it could be done without cheating... it's just so stupid that you can do it like this.
What? Stay hidden in a keep and flip it after the attackers leave? How is that 'stupid?'
Been seeing this too much lately. Maybe not stupid, but I hope zos fixes this. If it's not an exploit it's its first cousin.
It's been there forever. One or more persons hide, rez buddies, you take any wall or door down to under 50% and you can flip flags. Yes, you can siege from the inside. I've been running siege and had people travel to the keep and walk out the door never noticing the siege noise.
You don't usually see it often happen on the main campaign since people clear the keep after a take, checking the normal hiding spots, and there is plenty of traffic inside.
It's quite possible there were people still inside, and then the external force lit the keep so they just went and stood on the flags.5 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭witchdoctor wrote: »Dusk_Coven wrote: »DelosTheta wrote: »Either it's true, and it's a shame, or it's false, and it's also a shame.
THIS.
Even if it could be done without cheating... it's just so stupid that you can do it like this.
What? Stay hidden in a keep and flip it after the attackers leave? How is that 'stupid?'
Been seeing this too much lately. Maybe not stupid, but I hope zos fixes this. If it's not an exploit it's its first cousin.
It's been there forever. One or more persons hide, rez buddies, you take any wall or door down to under 50% and you can flip flags. Yes, you can siege from the inside. I've been running siege and had people travel to the keep and walk out the door never noticing the siege noise.
You don't usually see it often happen on the main campaign since people clear the keep after a take, checking the normal hiding spots, and there is plenty of traffic inside.
It's quite possible there were people still inside, and then the external force lit the keep so they just went and stood on the flags.
Yes, I know how it's done, I'm saying it's an issue. You get a decent size group stealth out and wait until everyone leaves you can take a keep from the inner in about a minute. You can even lay down aoes on the spawn point for the transitus to really bypass the game mechanics if you so wish.
Pretty sure it's not how the devs foresaw a keep take happening.
Edited by Mr_Walker on February 2, 2020 3:39AM2 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The comments made in the screenshot makes me think its Drac or some other ball group that has been in there farming. They often let the enemy close the door. Its actually an advantage for them as it cuts off siege; as if they need it. Then other EP will come in.3 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »Dusk_Coven wrote: »Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »Its been a thing for almost 6 years. If ZOS wanted to "fix it" they've had plenty of opportunities and never took it.
If ZOS wanted to fix Mount Stamina bug... or Random-Normal-Port-to-Pledge... Oh they did! But it took them forever, so honestly, basing anything off ZOS's credibility in fixing anything in a timely fashion is a weak argument.
Its not a bug. They have openly spoken about the things they do want to fix in PvP at length for years. Considering how hard your pushing this nonsense Im going to go ahead and assume you don't PvP and arguing with you about it is a waste of time.
Door camping in the IC sewers isn't a bug either. But it's cheese that's not good for the game.
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