Crown Store and the rising costs of digital goods.
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Unseelie✭✭✭✭Has anyone at ESO looked into the rising costs of digital items within the game? I don't think I can recall a single game that requires a staggering 40$ for a single armor style or 40$ for a single pet. Are people truly spending money on these digital items or are majority of sales coming from ESO plus membership?
sad thing is, if they dropped the Price to $10 they would probably sell 5-10 times as many and make more money. Same goes for housing. Housing is a gateway to buying more stuff. But because of the stupid prices, less people buy which makes Zos less money in the long wrong. More money people spend in the game, more likely they will stay longer.
They just are not that great at making business decisions. I honestly don't think they have any marketing research being done at all. Hopefully that changes one day.
Dropping the price would not get more sales, because the people that want the things will pay what is there and move on. The largest percentage of people complaining will never be satisfied unless things are handed to them or free.
Crowns are easier than ever to get these days with being able to buy them for gold in game.
There does come a point where pricing does hit a resistance level regardless of what people want.
want to make more money? ESO + membership discounts on crown store purchases, people love bargains, Im spending 15 a month and you're going to give me a discount to actually use my crowns?
thats really what they should do. eso+ should give big discounts not the 10% crap to certain items. If they really want to add value to eso+ make it give a 25% discount to everything in the store at all times, even new stuff. Subs are what makes the most money so that would drive more subs.
then they can remove some stupid things from eso+ like limit on furnishing. Having a limit on furnishings just hurts sales of homes and well furnishings. counter productive.
The limits to furnishing is there for a reason. Every item takes up system resources and too many create even higher instability. This has been said over and over and yet is still ignored. They do not have the limits because they hate you, they are server limits.0 -
Brandathorbel✭✭✭✭✭Has anyone at ESO looked into the rising costs of digital items within the game? I don't think I can recall a single game that requires a staggering 40$ for a single armor style or 40$ for a single pet. Are people truly spending money on these digital items or are majority of sales coming from ESO plus membership?
sad thing is, if they dropped the Price to $10 they would probably sell 5-10 times as many and make more money. Same goes for housing. Housing is a gateway to buying more stuff. But because of the stupid prices, less people buy which makes Zos less money in the long wrong. More money people spend in the game, more likely they will stay longer.
They just are not that great at making business decisions. I honestly don't think they have any marketing research being done at all. Hopefully that changes one day.
Dropping the price would not get more sales, because the people that want the things will pay what is there and move on. The largest percentage of people complaining will never be satisfied unless things are handed to them or free.
Crowns are easier than ever to get these days with being able to buy them for gold in game.
There does come a point where pricing does hit a resistance level regardless of what people want.
want to make more money? ESO + membership discounts on crown store purchases, people love bargains, Im spending 15 a month and you're going to give me a discount to actually use my crowns?
thats really what they should do. eso+ should give big discounts not the 10% crap to certain items. If they really want to add value to eso+ make it give a 25% discount to everything in the store at all times, even new stuff. Subs are what makes the most money so that would drive more subs.
then they can remove some stupid things from eso+ like limit on furnishing. Having a limit on furnishings just hurts sales of homes and well furnishings. counter productive.
The limits to furnishing is there for a reason. Every item takes up system resources and too many create even higher instability. This has been said over and over and yet is still ignored. They do not have the limits because they hate you, they are server limits.
i am talking about the 50% limit that gets unlocked when you have eso+. Notice i did say eso+ and the cap on housing has nothing to do with eso+.
feel free to apologize.
I will wait.
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MrGarlic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Real world money is hard enough to come by as it is without spending it in a virtual world on fluff I don't need.
I am of the opinion that crowns and crown items are way overpriced and represent poor value for money.'Sharp Arrows'Mr.GarlicHidden by darkness, a shadow in the night,A sped arrow dissecting the gloom,Finding it's target, such delight.1 -
Unseelie✭✭✭✭Has anyone at ESO looked into the rising costs of digital items within the game? I don't think I can recall a single game that requires a staggering 40$ for a single armor style or 40$ for a single pet. Are people truly spending money on these digital items or are majority of sales coming from ESO plus membership?
sad thing is, if they dropped the Price to $10 they would probably sell 5-10 times as many and make more money. Same goes for housing. Housing is a gateway to buying more stuff. But because of the stupid prices, less people buy which makes Zos less money in the long wrong. More money people spend in the game, more likely they will stay longer.
They just are not that great at making business decisions. I honestly don't think they have any marketing research being done at all. Hopefully that changes one day.
Dropping the price would not get more sales, because the people that want the things will pay what is there and move on. The largest percentage of people complaining will never be satisfied unless things are handed to them or free.
Crowns are easier than ever to get these days with being able to buy them for gold in game.
There does come a point where pricing does hit a resistance level regardless of what people want.
want to make more money? ESO + membership discounts on crown store purchases, people love bargains, Im spending 15 a month and you're going to give me a discount to actually use my crowns?
thats really what they should do. eso+ should give big discounts not the 10% crap to certain items. If they really want to add value to eso+ make it give a 25% discount to everything in the store at all times, even new stuff. Subs are what makes the most money so that would drive more subs.
then they can remove some stupid things from eso+ like limit on furnishing. Having a limit on furnishings just hurts sales of homes and well furnishings. counter productive.
The limits to furnishing is there for a reason. Every item takes up system resources and too many create even higher instability. This has been said over and over and yet is still ignored. They do not have the limits because they hate you, they are server limits.
i am talking about the 50% limit that gets unlocked when you have eso+. Notice i did say eso+ and the cap on housing has nothing to do with eso+.
feel free to apologize.
I will wait.
I understand that english may not be your primary language, but if you are referring to ESO+ giving you double housing slots (ergo 200% or +100%) that is still there for a reason and along with the crafting bag and banking are the biggest perks for people to get ESO + and I feel fairly safe in saying that those are far more valuable to most than a discount on the crown store. I also feel safe saying that if they just gave those away many would stop bothering with the ESO+ no matter what the discount was.
Feel free to hold your breath while you wait though.0 -
Brandathorbel✭✭✭✭✭furiouslog wrote: »Has anyone at ESO looked into the rising costs of digital items within the game? I don't think I can recall a single game that requires a staggering 40$ for a single armor style or 40$ for a single pet. Are people truly spending money on these digital items or are majority of sales coming from ESO plus membership?
sad thing is, if they dropped the Price to $10 they would probably sell 5-10 times as many and make more money. Same goes for housing. Housing is a gateway to buying more stuff. But because of the stupid prices, less people buy which makes Zos less money in the long wrong. More money people spend in the game, more likely they will stay longer.
They just are not that great at making business decisions. I honestly don't think they have any marketing research being done at all. Hopefully that changes one day.
I'm almost certain that they do marketing research on their CS sales. It's a multi-billion dollar company.
I know people in my guilds that have spent quite a lot in the crown store. I personally have, over time. The customers who want prices of premium digital items to be lower are just not at the right point on the supply and demand curve, and can not imagine how someone would be willing to pay X crowns for a particular house or a mount. If there were not an adequate paying supply of consumers for a particular asset, ZOS will put it on sale, or write it down and learn from it.
There are digital manufacturing costs for these assets. A house needs to be designed and programmed, so ZOS has up front investment costs to get that done. ZOS also pays maintenance costs because each house is instanced and stored per player, and those assets also need to be QA'd and managed when there is an update. You don't pay an increased maintenance fee for that - it's in the cost of purchase.
Some items are priced high because they are meant to be rare and desirable. I don't want a yacht, but I get why many people do even when they can't afford them. Do we picket the yacht manufacturers when they set exorbitant prices for their goods? No, because we understand the manufacturing costs of these items, and we know that they are wants, not needs. Everything in ESO itself is by definition a want, because it is a game. Therefore, pricing is purely a matter of optimization given your consumer base.
The Craglorn Arena is on sale right now. I wanted it before, but bought it now due to an increase in my personal interest in dueling and PvP, and because the price was acceptable given the fact that I stocked up on crowns during the holiday sale. You propose that ZOS should choose to sell that house for 1000-2000 crowns instead of 12000 - more people would buy the house, but would enough buy the house to maximize their ROI relative relative to the increase in the number of consumers willing to purchase at that price? Lowering the price would reduce the value of the "brand" of the house thereby making it less desirable, and it would saturate the market, which would require them to work harder to put out more content of similar quality to maintain revenue. By keeping prices at a higher point, they will get comparable revenue today, with additional future revenue they would not have otherwise captured due to the home's rarity and desirability, which keeps people continuing to play and subscribe to "save" for these items.
So, on the contrary, I think they have done their research. They have years of clean, explicit data on which people buy what and when. It is child's play for them to calculate accurate pricing and plan product timing to predict and drive the consumer behaviors they want. Ultimately, the fact that you are on here complaining about the price being too high means that you want the thing they have, you just don't want to pay for it. I know people who felt the same way about a CS offering and eventually caved in. You might have occasionally caved in too, or maybe you have never felt any of it was worth your money, but you still want it anyway. All of that means that they are probably doing their job pretty well.
the cost is very little for the part
And i run the finance department for a multi-million dollar North American company, and i can tell you, no they do not do research because they leave millions and millions on the table with bad marketing decisions. They don't do the marketing research because i bet they dont want to spend the money on the research.1 -
Brandathorbel✭✭✭✭✭
"I understand that english may not be your primary language, but if you are referring to ESO+ giving you double housing slots (ergo 200% or +100%) that is still there for a reason and along with the crafting bag and banking are the biggest perks for people to get ESO + and I feel fairly safe in saying that those are far more valuable to most than a discount on the crown store. I also feel safe saying that if they just gave those away many would stop bothering with the ESO+ no matter what the discount was.
Feel free to hold your breath while you wait though"
craft bag makes perfect sense.
The problem with the housing limitations is it completely kills the housing market for anyone that doesn't have eso+. it is counter productive. The game, while annoying, is still playable without the craft bag and can still drive other crown costs.
That can't be said for housing. Housing is a whole market that spawns other crown purchases. If you handicap it out the gate you handicap the whole market. It is just bad business.
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Unseelie✭✭✭✭
"I understand that english may not be your primary language, but if you are referring to ESO+ giving you double housing slots (ergo 200% or +100%) that is still there for a reason and along with the crafting bag and banking are the biggest perks for people to get ESO + and I feel fairly safe in saying that those are far more valuable to most than a discount on the crown store. I also feel safe saying that if they just gave those away many would stop bothering with the ESO+ no matter what the discount was.
Feel free to hold your breath while you wait though"
craft bag makes perfect sense.
The problem with the housing limitations is it completely kills the housing market for anyone that doesn't have eso+. it is counter productive. The game, while annoying, is still playable without the craft bag and can still drive other crown costs.
That can't be said for housing. Housing is a whole market that spawns other crown purchases. If you handicap it out the gate you handicap the whole market. It is just bad business.
Many are hoping that when they squash the file size and everyone re-downloads the game that many of the limits will be able to be re-adjusted. I know many in the housing threads have been wanting more space for a long time. Hopefully that may open up other options also1 -
Magenpie✭✭✭✭✭The whole Crowns thing drives me nuts, and is one of the main reason I always hesitate at subbing for any length of time, despite loving the game.
But it's not just about the crowns per-se, it's the double-crappy move of the TWO store currencies, in the form of Crowns AND Gems. So, even if you are motivated to subscribe and get the Crown stipend, you are still often forced into buying crates, to 'hopefully' (refrains from swearing loudly) generate Gems, so you can buy the store item you want. The store item rotation is also designed to push players into doing this because who knows when, if ever, the store item you want will ever return.
It's so damn spivvy, and makes me feel like I'm being scammed in some way, because I bloody am!!!
I am in the fortunate position of wanting to sub for a year at the moment, and part of me really wants to, but I really do feel I'm treated both as an idiot and The Enemy. What's infuriating is that I want to spend my money - I want to buy the mounts and clothes for my characters, it makes me feel more attached to them and to the game.
I recovered from my horror of in-game stores a long time ago, but ffs now I have, let me spend my money, and in a straightforward transparent way.4 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Path of Exiles is one of the few games that do things right. No cost, no sub, restrictions if i recall are very few if none, and the money they get are from cash stops.
Eh, they just keep shoving out more and more crafting, event, and loot items; and then making more and more and more inventory pages to sell to people. And the cosmetics are pretty expensive from what I remember. (I've bought a bunch of their Stash pages) edit: oh, and let's not forget their expensive "Supporter Packs" (collector's editions) whenever they release a new patch/season/etc.
Also, it's a Diablo-like, not an MMO like ESO. Different scale of production values/etc.with ESO, there is a huge cost upfront which is overpriced, then eso+ so they can afford to drop prices to gain more traction in the game.
What "huge cost upfront" is there? I think I spent $10 on my copy back in the day. And if you get a new copy now, it's a reasonable price for a normal game & includes previous chapters? And ESO+ isn't required, either.
edit: meanwhile, on the original topic - I certainly remember some expensive cash shop stuff back in the day. But that was in Eastern f2p p2w MMOs - like getting a fully-upgraded mount in Perfect World(?) was like $70-80. And there's games nowadays that have pretty expensive costumes. WoW had some quite expensive mounts & pets, of course those were charity things so they had a premium price. Etc.
Yeah, Motifs - particularly ones that can be obtained in-game, are quite expensive. In this case, it's a similar "convenience" surcharge like the Assistants or Skill Lines have. You can get the things in-game, if you want to skip that expect to pay. Because it's an un-necessary luxury item.Edited by Kiralyn2000 on January 28, 2020 9:59PM0 -
ArcVelarian✭✭✭✭✭Don't forget Notable Homes cost ~$120...
Murphy's Law of PvP : If it can be abused and or exploited, it will be abused and or exploited.4 -
Dracofyre✭✭✭✭in the words of Obi Wan Kenobe, "These are only the pixels", then tommorrow if company folds, we get burned.
way i am looking at, it is indeed overpriced digital copies. they are not only the ones who raise the price, most other online games raise the cost too, so greedy for wallet whales.
we have option to ignore the market, and have fun playing and chat with others.
the carnival masters, Ringling Bros, quoted over hundred years ago, "there always suckers born every day".
so sometimes we got tricked and fall for it, since there always something we likes. it just in the Eye of the beholder.3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I thought most of those armoring styles were available in game for free or gold for those who do not have the time to farm? Why is anyone even thinking of buying them from the cash shop.
Seriously, do not waste your money on what you can get in game.
Yes, I am aware there are a very small number of armor styles available during specific events that are Crown Store exclusives but they are less expensive iirc.
This armor style was an example of the prices in the store in general. With all things considered … its a whelp.
Ahh. Probably not the best example to use as I pointed out.
Edit: accidently saved the post early.
Yes, I do see motif prices have increased slightly. They had topped out at 5k crowns for awhile and I see Zos added one for 6 k crowns. When looking at costumes I see they are as low as 500 and most are at or below 1k so that is not bad. Most mounts I saw with a quick look were 2k crowns or less. That does not seem to be much of an increase and both areas are collections so we do not have to buy them per character.
Regardless, we can all live without all that. There is a lot in game we can obtain game and I suggest voting with ones wallet if they do not like the price. That is the best course of action because we tell Zos the price is right in a voice much louder than these forums when we buy the items. Zos has no reason to head these threads if the items are selling well. Not arguing, just pointing out the reality of business. I wish Ferraris sold for less. I vote with my wallet and wait for the prices to come down.
Devil's advocate, I believe that things that can be picked up in game and sold in game like Motif and styles are priced higher on purpose, and that is so that it does not hurt the in game market. If something is available in game, it should in my opinion be priced higher in crowns so that people are more inclined to check guild vendors and so it does not hurt the in game economy.
Those motifs have been 5k outside of the more common ones for years. Only one is higher. I am saying that the prices have not increased other than some outliers. Granted those can be a sign of a trend.
Regardless, you can call me devils advocate if you wish. The fact remains that complaining about the crown store prices in the forums is a waste of time. As long as players are paying the prices Zos sets them then Zos could care less about anyone who thinks the prices are to high. That revenue coming into the bank account speaks volumes.
Pretty much where we work has the same philosophy outside of the obvious government and non-profits. I am reminded of that simple truth every time my paycheck is deposited.0 -
heaven13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'd argue that relative to everything else I tend to consume, video gaming has had some of the most consistent and inflation-resistant pricing. Even within same product.
A few items scale to intended scarcity - a lot of people complained about the Welkynar motif's pricing, but it's an order of eight individuals, four core members and up to four apprentices. It wasn't supposed to be easy to acquire. But a lot of today's pricing reflect the pricing from when the crown store first opened. It's easy to predict about how much any new item will cost. If rising costs were a true concern, there would be a lot more uncertainty. I can't say I've ever been taken by surprise by what a crown store item costs.
And I just refuse to judge people for how they spend their money on what they enjoy. I don't buy $300 soccer boots and $100 soccer balls to get noticed or support something. I buy them because I love the sport. If you love ESO, buy what you want. Even if other people feel it's irrational. It's not their job to enjoy it. It's yours.
Ah yes. Prices definitely haven't doubled from when the crown store was introduced. Not at all.
Mounts used to be less. Pets used to be less. Now, it's rare for a mount to be released under 2500 crowns, while some have been as high as 4500. Pets are typically 800 (double their original 400 crown cost). There is very seldomly the racial costume selection of 500/700/1000 crowns. It took a year after Summerset's release to get the Altmer dresses in that pricing scheme. And the original store prices were BEFORE crown crates were a thing. You'd think with RNG loot boxes, a company wouldn't need to raise the prices of static products. Let's not even get into crown gem exclusives: pay money to buy crowns to spend crowns to buy crates to get consumables and/or duplicates to get gems to buy the thing. It's absurdly consumer-unfriendly.
The outrage about Welkynar wasn't just about the price. It was about the delivery of the in-game acquisition. Glass style used to be fragments (possible reward from crafting writs) that were put together with a purchased resin and turned into a random chapter page. That was unfriendly so fragments were removed and the entire gold book added to the master writ voucher. Shortly after, Welkynar came out and it was back to the fragment collection game, with the added frustration of the convoluted structure of loot rewards in Cloudrest. So hard to earn fragments + RNG component to chapters made crown store option look more desirable, but the price jumped up compared to all the other motifs that had been released.
You can spend your money how you want. It's yours. But that doesn't change the fact that prices on crown items have increased and crown practices have become less friendly towards the consumer.PC/NAMountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of DeathMeet my characters :
Defanged the Devourer | Nature's Wrath | Relentless Raider | True Genius | Bane of Thorns | Subterranean Smasher | Ardent Bibliophile
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRGIT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS5 -
Hallothiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The whole Crowns thing drives me nuts, and is one of the main reason I always hesitate at subbing for any length of time, despite loving the game.
But it's not just about the crowns per-se, it's the double-crappy move of the TWO store currencies, in the form of Crowns AND Gems. So, even if you are motivated to subscribe and get the Crown stipend, you are still often forced into buying crates, to 'hopefully' (refrains from swearing loudly) generate Gems, so you can buy the store item you want. The store item rotation is also designed to push players into doing this because who knows when, if ever, the store item you want will ever return.
It's so damn spivvy, and makes me feel like I'm being scammed in some way, because I bloody am!!!
I am in the fortunate position of wanting to sub for a year at the moment, and part of me really wants to, but I really do feel I'm treated both as an idiot and The Enemy. What's infuriating is that I want to spend my money - I want to buy the mounts and clothes for my characters, it makes me feel more attached to them and to the game.
I recovered from my horror of in-game stores a long time ago, but ffs now I have, let me spend my money, and in a straightforward transparent way.
Oh totally agree.
Crown store I can cope with.
Crown crates & gems are nasty. I don’t want to gamble, I just want to buy the damn pixels.
To me that is bad marketing.5 -
furiouslog✭✭✭✭✭
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the cost is very little for the part
And i run the finance department for a multi-million dollar North American company, and i can tell you, no they do not do research because they leave millions and millions on the table with bad marketing decisions. They don't do the marketing research because i bet they dont want to spend the money on the research.
You don't know how much the "part" costs. You have no basis for that statement. How many hours does it take to design all of the aesthetics and coding needed to support a 12000 crown house? I don't know. What is your estimate and its basis?
I work in a marketing organization for a major company, so I know what you're probably referencing. You can spend money on suppliers to do research, or you can do your own. I know from observing ZOS's consumer engagement that they are probably running a lean, in house operation for marketing within their existing consumer base, but they have everything they need to do that with a small team. They would not collect all of our data, mine Twitch, survey consumers, and send promotional emails if someone was not in charge of that. Your experience with your company does not extend to all other companies in the universe. There is way more evidence that ZOS has a sophisticated but probably small/lean marketing competency than to the contrary.0 -
ACESsiggy✭✭✭Nord_Raseri wrote: »That's what I feel. As some of you stated mjority of sales are coming from ESO + members. I think they should reduce the crowns for plus members and the cost of items items in the eso store. It just feels out of the normal with other games and common sense pricing in general.
Maybe this might generate more people 'willing and able' to purchase more crowns out of pocket rather than relying on ESO+ purchases.
Reduce anything we pay for as Eso+ subscribers would likely cause more people to drop subscriptions. How is taking away things from other people your solution?
Missing the point. Shift the paradigm to a formula which reduces crowns across the board. Reducing the crowns for membership would be proportionate to the drop in prices in the ESO store. Allowing for the potential of more people willing to buy things and not relying solely on Membership crowns.0