Nightblades are Extinct!

Iskiab · January 2020

Solaire wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Solaire wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

With all due respect, there's a lot of ignorance (can't tell if it's willful or not) and/or outright dishonesty in this thread. First off: the title of the thread "Nightblades are Extinct" is a straw man. I know of no one that claims that there are no Nightblades running around ESO.

Plenty of people however, (myself included) have said that they are no longer viable in higher tiered BGs (and to a slightly lesser extent, PVP in general) and vet trials (which I don't know much about, so I won't comment.) As far as PVP goes though, they are the weakest class hands down — if you want to excel in PVP you're better off playing literally any of the other classes. This is not a controversial opinion: anyone who disagrees with it is either being dishonest, hasn't played the class, or is in the ~95 percentile of skilled players (and thus would beat most people regardless of the class they are playing.)

(Note: in high MMR BGs, it honestly might not be hyperbolic to say that NBs are "extinct," although "endangered" would probably be more accurate. I frequently see 6-8 DKs, Sorcs, Templars, or Wardens — I never see that many NBs. Often I find myself being the only NB out of 12 players.)

Isth3reno1else recently did a series of four videos on how all of the classes stack up in PVP (both stamina and magicka, so 12 classes total) in terms of soloing, small scale groups, and large scale groups. Nighblades finished in the last two spots (of 12) in almost every instance. Below is the chart he used to illustrate it.

For everyone that doesn't play the class let's try a little thought experiment: imagine you play as a Stamina Warden. In all 3 categories, your class scores a 14 or 15 out of a possible 15. Now imagine your class got "reworked" so it looks more like a Stamina Nightblade does (2, 1, 10) So now you're dead last in two categories, and tied for 3rd to last in the third. How would that make you feel about your class? Would you feel like ZOS killed it, perhaps? Well now you know how all the NBs "QQing" feel. It's not particularly pleasant.

I can only speak for myself, but I feel that every class should be capable of scoring 12 - 15 in all 3 categories, while retaining their unique playstyle. Unfortunately, there are a lot of selfish people on these forums that want their class to be a 15 all around with every other class being considerably weaker. (Ironically, these are the same people telling everyone else to "L2P".)

TL;DR: No, NBs aren't "extinct." But as far as I can tell, the only person that has suggested they are is the OP. They are, however, so far below the other classes with regard to their capabilities in PVP that there's no point in playing as one unless you just really love the class. (In which case, it's an incredibly frustrating experience.)

It's clear that you haven't read the conversations and the responses i had within this thread,
But let me make some things clear,

what i was pointing out was pretty much people similar to you and yes there are people in this thread who do think NBs have a low population, and i disagree.

Now, just because a class is one of the most played classes in the game doesn't mean it's in a good state, i never said anything like that in fact i said NBs are over nerfed similar to MagSorc,
and ZOS will ruin NB if they bring Stealth like skill and make it available to other classes, which in result NB will lose what makes it stand out and unique.

Still viable in BG? Yes.
Played the most? Yes.
Over nerfed? Yes.

Way too many complains about NB every patch, people complain about it on the forums, youtube, communities, groups,
NB and MagSorc are the most complained about classes in the game i think they should just take them out and rework them completely.
NB is honestly one of my fav classes of all time, and it's my 2nd most played class in ESO.

what i was pointing out was pretty much people similar to you

I'm not sure what you mean here.

NBs are over nerfed similar to MagSorc

I'm sorry, but this is absurd. My magsorc completely sh**s on my NBs. Sorcs are stronger in literally every way I can think of, and their skills are just plain simpler to use. Hell, the 3 main skills almost every sorc uses in PVP are all automated.

Still viable in BG? Yes.
Played the most? Yes.
Over nerfed? Yes.

1. They're only viable in low to mid tier MMR BGs. If you disagree with that, it likely means you either haven't played on one in high MMR BGs for any length of time or you have God-like skills (which may indeed be the case for all I know, but that just means you're the exception to the rule).
2. Actually, I'm fairly certain Magsorcs are the most played class in the game.
3. Agreed.

The simple fact is this: No other class is so poorly represented in high MMR BGs as nightblades (specifically magblades.) Everyone I know that plays high MMR BGs refuses to even play on their magblades anymore, and rarely (if ever) play their stamblades. They much prefer to play their DK, Templar, or Warden, all of which do more damage with simpler combos and have much stronger defenses/healing, equaling more kills & fewer deaths. While nightblades aren't nonexistent, I'm usually one of, if not the only NB in any given BG (unless I get knocked down to a lower tier.)

They dominate the low and mid tier BGs but seen less in higher MMR BGs but not "extinct" as say they are "barely" played by anyone, i do a lot of PVP non stop, they are way more viable than you think they are,

and what i meant by "similar people like you" is that you saying they are almost non existent in higher MMR which is not true, because that's a statement to raise awareness of the class being Bad, which is not, it's not as good as it used to be but it's is as i said one of the top classes, why do you think people care so much about it in the first place? because it's played by a lot of people.
as seen in the screenshot i have added to thread i play on my StamNB ending up with a full team of StamNBs, and there were also a few on the other teams and every match i go into i always see a few of them,
yes there are a lot of templars, dk, wardens, necros and some mag sorc here and there but mainly stam builds since the meta now favors stams and with every patch favoring stams it's stupid not to play as one,
do you see magdk? magnecro? magnb? magden? as much as other builds?
No, because it's a Tank Meta and that's one of the problems in which people avoid squishy builds,
but thanks to their unique cloak it's pretty viable, i know it can countered but if you play it smart you would never get caught,
Nbs were never meant to be a 1vx class in no way they are, even tho skilled people have done it, it's in no shape to be a good group support.

i myself main StamDK, was my first ever ESO class and still is, 2nd is my StamNB 3rd is Templar both mag and stam
these are my top 3 fav classes and i want them to be good as you want NB to be good, but let's not be selfish,

as for MagSorc, i gotta disagree, it's in a pretty bad place right now, MagPlar is way much better than MagSorc
Mags in general are just not balanced to be on the same level as stams in the current meta, but we may or may not see some changes with upcoming Skyrim chapter but i really doubt anything major will happen, even if it happens it will surely be just the Vampire new skills or adjustment,

and i don't think magsorc gonna match NB in 1v1, i have won many matches against magsorc on 1v1, they beat you sometimes but mostly it's you coming on on top, but this also differs from player to player so i can't say fore sure,
can't even compare these two classes to each other they aren't supposed to be compared or be at the same level not in term of power but skills.

Magsorcs are everywhere in BGs, I don’t know what you mean.

The reason why people care about how the class does is because it’s a fun class. Problem is magblade is uncompetitive to the point they stop playing it.

In a BG a magblade’s final stats usually look decent, especially if they use impale, but they’re weak. Usually the team that gets the magblade loses. A magblade can’t keep themselves alive and stay with the group well, right there that makes them a bad BG class.

I’ve seen more magblades recently, probably because they’ve been a topic on the forums, but I have no idea how they ever finish the win 3 BG quest.

Langeston · January 2020

Solaire wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Solaire wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

With all due respect, there's a lot of ignorance (can't tell if it's willful or not) and/or outright dishonesty in this thread. First off: the title of the thread "Nightblades are Extinct" is a straw man. I know of no one that claims that there are no Nightblades running around ESO.

Plenty of people however, (myself included) have said that they are no longer viable in higher tiered BGs (and to a slightly lesser extent, PVP in general) and vet trials (which I don't know much about, so I won't comment.) As far as PVP goes though, they are the weakest class hands down — if you want to excel in PVP you're better off playing literally any of the other classes. This is not a controversial opinion: anyone who disagrees with it is either being dishonest, hasn't played the class, or is in the ~95 percentile of skilled players (and thus would beat most people regardless of the class they are playing.)

(Note: in high MMR BGs, it honestly might not be hyperbolic to say that NBs are "extinct," although "endangered" would probably be more accurate. I frequently see 6-8 DKs, Sorcs, Templars, or Wardens — I never see that many NBs. Often I find myself being the only NB out of 12 players.)

Isth3reno1else recently did a series of four videos on how all of the classes stack up in PVP (both stamina and magicka, so 12 classes total) in terms of soloing, small scale groups, and large scale groups. Nighblades finished in the last two spots (of 12) in almost every instance. Below is the chart he used to illustrate it.

For everyone that doesn't play the class let's try a little thought experiment: imagine you play as a Stamina Warden. In all 3 categories, your class scores a 14 or 15 out of a possible 15. Now imagine your class got "reworked" so it looks more like a Stamina Nightblade does (2, 1, 10) So now you're dead last in two categories, and tied for 3rd to last in the third. How would that make you feel about your class? Would you feel like ZOS killed it, perhaps? Well now you know how all the NBs "QQing" feel. It's not particularly pleasant.

I can only speak for myself, but I feel that every class should be capable of scoring 12 - 15 in all 3 categories, while retaining their unique playstyle. Unfortunately, there are a lot of selfish people on these forums that want their class to be a 15 all around with every other class being considerably weaker. (Ironically, these are the same people telling everyone else to "L2P".)

TL;DR: No, NBs aren't "extinct." But as far as I can tell, the only person that has suggested they are is the OP. They are, however, so far below the other classes with regard to their capabilities in PVP that there's no point in playing as one unless you just really love the class. (In which case, it's an incredibly frustrating experience.)

It's clear that you haven't read the conversations and the responses i had within this thread,
But let me make some things clear,

what i was pointing out was pretty much people similar to you and yes there are people in this thread who do think NBs have a low population, and i disagree.

Now, just because a class is one of the most played classes in the game doesn't mean it's in a good state, i never said anything like that in fact i said NBs are over nerfed similar to MagSorc,
and ZOS will ruin NB if they bring Stealth like skill and make it available to other classes, which in result NB will lose what makes it stand out and unique.

Still viable in BG? Yes.
Played the most? Yes.
Over nerfed? Yes.

Way too many complains about NB every patch, people complain about it on the forums, youtube, communities, groups,
NB and MagSorc are the most complained about classes in the game i think they should just take them out and rework them completely.
NB is honestly one of my fav classes of all time, and it's my 2nd most played class in ESO.

what i was pointing out was pretty much people similar to you

I'm not sure what you mean here.

NBs are over nerfed similar to MagSorc

I'm sorry, but this is absurd. My magsorc completely sh**s on my NBs. Sorcs are stronger in literally every way I can think of, and their skills are just plain simpler to use. Hell, the 3 main skills almost every sorc uses in PVP are all automated.

Still viable in BG? Yes.
Played the most? Yes.
Over nerfed? Yes.

1. They're only viable in low to mid tier MMR BGs. If you disagree with that, it likely means you either haven't played on one in high MMR BGs for any length of time or you have God-like skills (which may indeed be the case for all I know, but that just means you're the exception to the rule).
2. Actually, I'm fairly certain Magsorcs are the most played class in the game.
3. Agreed.

The simple fact is this: No other class is so poorly represented in high MMR BGs as nightblades (specifically magblades.) Everyone I know that plays high MMR BGs refuses to even play on their magblades anymore, and rarely (if ever) play their stamblades. They much prefer to play their DK, Templar, or Warden, all of which do more damage with simpler combos and have much stronger defenses/healing, equaling more kills & fewer deaths. While nightblades aren't nonexistent, I'm usually one of, if not the only NB in any given BG (unless I get knocked down to a lower tier.)

They dominate the low and mid tier BGs but seen less in higher MMR BGs but not "extinct" as say they are "barely" played by anyone, i do a lot of PVP non stop, they are way more viable than you think they are,

and what i meant by "similar people like you" is that you saying they are almost non existent in higher MMR which is not true, because that's a statement to raise awareness of the class being Bad, which is not, it's not as good as it used to be but it's is as i said one of the top classes, why do you think people care so much about it in the first place? because it's played by a lot of people.
as seen in the screenshot i have added to thread i play on my StamNB ending up with a full team of StamNBs, and there were also a few on the other teams and every match i go into i always see a few of them,
yes there are a lot of templars, dk, wardens, necros and some mag sorc here and there but mainly stam builds since the meta now favors stams and with every patch favoring stams it's stupid not to play as one,
do you see magdk? magnecro? magnb? magden? as much as other builds?
No, because it's a Tank Meta and that's one of the problems in which people avoid squishy builds,
but thanks to their unique cloak it's pretty viable, i know it can countered but if you play it smart you would never get caught,
Nbs were never meant to be a 1vx class in no way they are, even tho skilled people have done it, it's in no shape to be a good group support.

i myself main StamDK, was my first ever ESO class and still is, 2nd is my StamNB 3rd is Templar both mag and stam
these are my top 3 fav classes and i want them to be good as you want NB to be good, but let's not be selfish,

as for MagSorc, i gotta disagree, it's in a pretty bad place right now, MagPlar is way much better than MagSorc
Mags in general are just not balanced to be on the same level as stams in the current meta, but we may or may not see some changes with upcoming Skyrim chapter but i really doubt anything major will happen, even if it happens it will surely be just the Vampire new skills or adjustment,

and i don't think magsorc gonna match NB in 1v1, i have won many matches against magsorc on 1v1, they beat you sometimes but mostly it's you coming on on top, but this also differs from player to player so i can't say fore sure,
can't even compare these two classes to each other they aren't supposed to be compared or be at the same level not in term of power but skills.

There is so much I disagree with in this post (and a decent amount that is just flat out wrong) that I don't know where to begin — but if you seriously believe that nightblades are "one of the top classes" right now, there probably isn't any point in trying to dissect it.

I will say this though: based on the fact that you're still seeing lots of NBs in BGs and that you still think it's possible to "never get caught" if you just know how to use cloak, I doubt your MMR is particularly high on that toon. I had the same experience for a while, but once I got to the higher tier BGs I'm often the only NB & Shadowy Disguise is borderline worthless.

The only other thing I can think of is that you're a console player. I know a few people that used to play on Xbox, and they told me that the competition was much softer on there than on the PC. If that's the case, then I could see NBs still being viable even at higher levels. But if you're on PC NA, then I don't buy it.

In any case, if you are on PC NA and want to prove me wrong, I'd be down to do some BGs with you. If we queue together, chances are good that we'll see difficult matches. (Although right now they're a bit out of whack with the event going on.)

Grandma · January 2020

the way i see it is- people mock sorcs because its the "Basic intro class", so they think they're being smart by going nightblade. they are not- everyone and their mom goes nightblade. Masochists or youtubers with big beards play DK, and then people who just want to be healer or people who have no idea what any of that other stuff means go templar. Then Warden came out and was ***, so everyone who wanted to feel different went warden, and nobody really knows what they're thinking. Now necro is out and is super popular and powerful, so it's not really a statement- it's like the new sorc and nb rolled into one- or as the timeless phrase goes, "[necros] are like buttholes, everyone has one."

Seriously though, NBs are a dime a 100 still. Which is way less than they used to be- the severe nerfs definitely cut down their population, but now so they're just on par with other classes. Remember how back in the day it was something like 40% of classes in raids were nightblades? i can't remember the exact number for the life of me but it was so skewed- and then warden was a single digit percent, and NBs were still complaining about getting nerfs. I think they're in a fine spot rn, not the glory they used to be, and their rotation could be a little more rewarding for its complexity, but they're now on the same level as every other class [except necro i guess] and can actually be like... normal for a change.

but again. i have to say. you're not a special genius for thinking NB's are cool because you're a stealth archer. Yes, everyone played one in skyrim, lol.

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx · January 2020

Every single patch, they either do nothing to NB, or nerf us. It's why after 4 years I stopped playing it as much, and the game in general! People are kidding themselves when they say that NB is ZoS' favorite class. What a joke

Banana · January 2020

If only that was true.

Curious_Death · January 2020

max_only wrote: »

Nightblades are a popular class for solo players trying to recreate the feeling of the single player rpgs in this franchise.

yes i rly like sneak part

, more than block part

EvilAutoTech · January 2020

@Grandma

I have 6 necros

Just sayin

ApostateHobo · January 2020

Iskiab wrote: »

Solaire wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Solaire wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

With all due respect, there's a lot of ignorance (can't tell if it's willful or not) and/or outright dishonesty in this thread. First off: the title of the thread "Nightblades are Extinct" is a straw man. I know of no one that claims that there are no Nightblades running around ESO.

Plenty of people however, (myself included) have said that they are no longer viable in higher tiered BGs (and to a slightly lesser extent, PVP in general) and vet trials (which I don't know much about, so I won't comment.) As far as PVP goes though, they are the weakest class hands down — if you want to excel in PVP you're better off playing literally any of the other classes. This is not a controversial opinion: anyone who disagrees with it is either being dishonest, hasn't played the class, or is in the ~95 percentile of skilled players (and thus would beat most people regardless of the class they are playing.)

(Note: in high MMR BGs, it honestly might not be hyperbolic to say that NBs are "extinct," although "endangered" would probably be more accurate. I frequently see 6-8 DKs, Sorcs, Templars, or Wardens — I never see that many NBs. Often I find myself being the only NB out of 12 players.)

Isth3reno1else recently did a series of four videos on how all of the classes stack up in PVP (both stamina and magicka, so 12 classes total) in terms of soloing, small scale groups, and large scale groups. Nighblades finished in the last two spots (of 12) in almost every instance. Below is the chart he used to illustrate it.

For everyone that doesn't play the class let's try a little thought experiment: imagine you play as a Stamina Warden. In all 3 categories, your class scores a 14 or 15 out of a possible 15. Now imagine your class got "reworked" so it looks more like a Stamina Nightblade does (2, 1, 10) So now you're dead last in two categories, and tied for 3rd to last in the third. How would that make you feel about your class? Would you feel like ZOS killed it, perhaps? Well now you know how all the NBs "QQing" feel. It's not particularly pleasant.

I can only speak for myself, but I feel that every class should be capable of scoring 12 - 15 in all 3 categories, while retaining their unique playstyle. Unfortunately, there are a lot of selfish people on these forums that want their class to be a 15 all around with every other class being considerably weaker. (Ironically, these are the same people telling everyone else to "L2P".)

TL;DR: No, NBs aren't "extinct." But as far as I can tell, the only person that has suggested they are is the OP. They are, however, so far below the other classes with regard to their capabilities in PVP that there's no point in playing as one unless you just really love the class. (In which case, it's an incredibly frustrating experience.)

It's clear that you haven't read the conversations and the responses i had within this thread,
But let me make some things clear,

what i was pointing out was pretty much people similar to you and yes there are people in this thread who do think NBs have a low population, and i disagree.

Now, just because a class is one of the most played classes in the game doesn't mean it's in a good state, i never said anything like that in fact i said NBs are over nerfed similar to MagSorc,
and ZOS will ruin NB if they bring Stealth like skill and make it available to other classes, which in result NB will lose what makes it stand out and unique.

Still viable in BG? Yes.
Played the most? Yes.
Over nerfed? Yes.

Way too many complains about NB every patch, people complain about it on the forums, youtube, communities, groups,
NB and MagSorc are the most complained about classes in the game i think they should just take them out and rework them completely.
NB is honestly one of my fav classes of all time, and it's my 2nd most played class in ESO.

what i was pointing out was pretty much people similar to you

I'm not sure what you mean here.

NBs are over nerfed similar to MagSorc

I'm sorry, but this is absurd. My magsorc completely sh**s on my NBs. Sorcs are stronger in literally every way I can think of, and their skills are just plain simpler to use. Hell, the 3 main skills almost every sorc uses in PVP are all automated.

Still viable in BG? Yes.
Played the most? Yes.
Over nerfed? Yes.

1. They're only viable in low to mid tier MMR BGs. If you disagree with that, it likely means you either haven't played on one in high MMR BGs for any length of time or you have God-like skills (which may indeed be the case for all I know, but that just means you're the exception to the rule).
2. Actually, I'm fairly certain Magsorcs are the most played class in the game.
3. Agreed.

The simple fact is this: No other class is so poorly represented in high MMR BGs as nightblades (specifically magblades.) Everyone I know that plays high MMR BGs refuses to even play on their magblades anymore, and rarely (if ever) play their stamblades. They much prefer to play their DK, Templar, or Warden, all of which do more damage with simpler combos and have much stronger defenses/healing, equaling more kills & fewer deaths. While nightblades aren't nonexistent, I'm usually one of, if not the only NB in any given BG (unless I get knocked down to a lower tier.)

They dominate the low and mid tier BGs but seen less in higher MMR BGs but not "extinct" as say they are "barely" played by anyone, i do a lot of PVP non stop, they are way more viable than you think they are,

and what i meant by "similar people like you" is that you saying they are almost non existent in higher MMR which is not true, because that's a statement to raise awareness of the class being Bad, which is not, it's not as good as it used to be but it's is as i said one of the top classes, why do you think people care so much about it in the first place? because it's played by a lot of people.
as seen in the screenshot i have added to thread i play on my StamNB ending up with a full team of StamNBs, and there were also a few on the other teams and every match i go into i always see a few of them,
yes there are a lot of templars, dk, wardens, necros and some mag sorc here and there but mainly stam builds since the meta now favors stams and with every patch favoring stams it's stupid not to play as one,
do you see magdk? magnecro? magnb? magden? as much as other builds?
No, because it's a Tank Meta and that's one of the problems in which people avoid squishy builds,
but thanks to their unique cloak it's pretty viable, i know it can countered but if you play it smart you would never get caught,
Nbs were never meant to be a 1vx class in no way they are, even tho skilled people have done it, it's in no shape to be a good group support.

i myself main StamDK, was my first ever ESO class and still is, 2nd is my StamNB 3rd is Templar both mag and stam
these are my top 3 fav classes and i want them to be good as you want NB to be good, but let's not be selfish,

as for MagSorc, i gotta disagree, it's in a pretty bad place right now, MagPlar is way much better than MagSorc
Mags in general are just not balanced to be on the same level as stams in the current meta, but we may or may not see some changes with upcoming Skyrim chapter but i really doubt anything major will happen, even if it happens it will surely be just the Vampire new skills or adjustment,

and i don't think magsorc gonna match NB in 1v1, i have won many matches against magsorc on 1v1, they beat you sometimes but mostly it's you coming on on top, but this also differs from player to player so i can't say fore sure,
can't even compare these two classes to each other they aren't supposed to be compared or be at the same level not in term of power but skills.

Magsorcs are everywhere in BGs, I don’t know what you mean.

The reason why people care about how the class does is because it’s a fun class. Problem is magblade is uncompetitive to the point they stop playing it.

In a BG a magblade’s final stats usually look decent, especially if they use impale, but they’re weak. Usually the team that gets the magblade loses. A magblade can’t keep themselves alive and stay with the group well, right there that makes them a bad BG class.

I’ve seen more magblades recently, probably because they’ve been a topic on the forums, but I have no idea how they ever finish the win 3 BG quest.

I feel so attacked, but it's true lol.

svartorn · January 2020

They’re not extinct!

I do writs every day on two.

Iskiab · January 2020

ApostateHobo wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Solaire wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Solaire wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

With all due respect, there's a lot of ignorance (can't tell if it's willful or not) and/or outright dishonesty in this thread. First off: the title of the thread "Nightblades are Extinct" is a straw man. I know of no one that claims that there are no Nightblades running around ESO.

Plenty of people however, (myself included) have said that they are no longer viable in higher tiered BGs (and to a slightly lesser extent, PVP in general) and vet trials (which I don't know much about, so I won't comment.) As far as PVP goes though, they are the weakest class hands down — if you want to excel in PVP you're better off playing literally any of the other classes. This is not a controversial opinion: anyone who disagrees with it is either being dishonest, hasn't played the class, or is in the ~95 percentile of skilled players (and thus would beat most people regardless of the class they are playing.)

(Note: in high MMR BGs, it honestly might not be hyperbolic to say that NBs are "extinct," although "endangered" would probably be more accurate. I frequently see 6-8 DKs, Sorcs, Templars, or Wardens — I never see that many NBs. Often I find myself being the only NB out of 12 players.)

Isth3reno1else recently did a series of four videos on how all of the classes stack up in PVP (both stamina and magicka, so 12 classes total) in terms of soloing, small scale groups, and large scale groups. Nighblades finished in the last two spots (of 12) in almost every instance. Below is the chart he used to illustrate it.

For everyone that doesn't play the class let's try a little thought experiment: imagine you play as a Stamina Warden. In all 3 categories, your class scores a 14 or 15 out of a possible 15. Now imagine your class got "reworked" so it looks more like a Stamina Nightblade does (2, 1, 10) So now you're dead last in two categories, and tied for 3rd to last in the third. How would that make you feel about your class? Would you feel like ZOS killed it, perhaps? Well now you know how all the NBs "QQing" feel. It's not particularly pleasant.

I can only speak for myself, but I feel that every class should be capable of scoring 12 - 15 in all 3 categories, while retaining their unique playstyle. Unfortunately, there are a lot of selfish people on these forums that want their class to be a 15 all around with every other class being considerably weaker. (Ironically, these are the same people telling everyone else to "L2P".)

TL;DR: No, NBs aren't "extinct." But as far as I can tell, the only person that has suggested they are is the OP. They are, however, so far below the other classes with regard to their capabilities in PVP that there's no point in playing as one unless you just really love the class. (In which case, it's an incredibly frustrating experience.)

It's clear that you haven't read the conversations and the responses i had within this thread,
But let me make some things clear,

what i was pointing out was pretty much people similar to you and yes there are people in this thread who do think NBs have a low population, and i disagree.

Now, just because a class is one of the most played classes in the game doesn't mean it's in a good state, i never said anything like that in fact i said NBs are over nerfed similar to MagSorc,
and ZOS will ruin NB if they bring Stealth like skill and make it available to other classes, which in result NB will lose what makes it stand out and unique.

Still viable in BG? Yes.
Played the most? Yes.
Over nerfed? Yes.

Way too many complains about NB every patch, people complain about it on the forums, youtube, communities, groups,
NB and MagSorc are the most complained about classes in the game i think they should just take them out and rework them completely.
NB is honestly one of my fav classes of all time, and it's my 2nd most played class in ESO.

what i was pointing out was pretty much people similar to you

I'm not sure what you mean here.

NBs are over nerfed similar to MagSorc

I'm sorry, but this is absurd. My magsorc completely sh**s on my NBs. Sorcs are stronger in literally every way I can think of, and their skills are just plain simpler to use. Hell, the 3 main skills almost every sorc uses in PVP are all automated.

Still viable in BG? Yes.
Played the most? Yes.
Over nerfed? Yes.

1. They're only viable in low to mid tier MMR BGs. If you disagree with that, it likely means you either haven't played on one in high MMR BGs for any length of time or you have God-like skills (which may indeed be the case for all I know, but that just means you're the exception to the rule).
2. Actually, I'm fairly certain Magsorcs are the most played class in the game.
3. Agreed.

The simple fact is this: No other class is so poorly represented in high MMR BGs as nightblades (specifically magblades.) Everyone I know that plays high MMR BGs refuses to even play on their magblades anymore, and rarely (if ever) play their stamblades. They much prefer to play their DK, Templar, or Warden, all of which do more damage with simpler combos and have much stronger defenses/healing, equaling more kills & fewer deaths. While nightblades aren't nonexistent, I'm usually one of, if not the only NB in any given BG (unless I get knocked down to a lower tier.)

They dominate the low and mid tier BGs but seen less in higher MMR BGs but not "extinct" as say they are "barely" played by anyone, i do a lot of PVP non stop, they are way more viable than you think they are,

and what i meant by "similar people like you" is that you saying they are almost non existent in higher MMR which is not true, because that's a statement to raise awareness of the class being Bad, which is not, it's not as good as it used to be but it's is as i said one of the top classes, why do you think people care so much about it in the first place? because it's played by a lot of people.
as seen in the screenshot i have added to thread i play on my StamNB ending up with a full team of StamNBs, and there were also a few on the other teams and every match i go into i always see a few of them,
yes there are a lot of templars, dk, wardens, necros and some mag sorc here and there but mainly stam builds since the meta now favors stams and with every patch favoring stams it's stupid not to play as one,
do you see magdk? magnecro? magnb? magden? as much as other builds?
No, because it's a Tank Meta and that's one of the problems in which people avoid squishy builds,
but thanks to their unique cloak it's pretty viable, i know it can countered but if you play it smart you would never get caught,
Nbs were never meant to be a 1vx class in no way they are, even tho skilled people have done it, it's in no shape to be a good group support.

i myself main StamDK, was my first ever ESO class and still is, 2nd is my StamNB 3rd is Templar both mag and stam
these are my top 3 fav classes and i want them to be good as you want NB to be good, but let's not be selfish,

as for MagSorc, i gotta disagree, it's in a pretty bad place right now, MagPlar is way much better than MagSorc
Mags in general are just not balanced to be on the same level as stams in the current meta, but we may or may not see some changes with upcoming Skyrim chapter but i really doubt anything major will happen, even if it happens it will surely be just the Vampire new skills or adjustment,

and i don't think magsorc gonna match NB in 1v1, i have won many matches against magsorc on 1v1, they beat you sometimes but mostly it's you coming on on top, but this also differs from player to player so i can't say fore sure,
can't even compare these two classes to each other they aren't supposed to be compared or be at the same level not in term of power but skills.

Magsorcs are everywhere in BGs, I don’t know what you mean.

The reason why people care about how the class does is because it’s a fun class. Problem is magblade is uncompetitive to the point they stop playing it.

In a BG a magblade’s final stats usually look decent, especially if they use impale, but they’re weak. Usually the team that gets the magblade loses. A magblade can’t keep themselves alive and stay with the group well, right there that makes them a bad BG class.

I’ve seen more magblades recently, probably because they’ve been a topic on the forums, but I have no idea how they ever finish the win 3 BG quest.

I feel so attacked, but it's true lol.

There are generally 4 kinds of opinions on the forums:
1. I’m new so have no idea what I’m talking about
2. I play x class only and the grass is greener on the other side
3. I should know better but buff my class because I just want to be OP
4. I’ve played multiple classes and know which side has the greener grass, and it’s not NB

CASP3R421 · January 2020

nb still around you just cant see them without a reveal bruh

Chelo · January 2020

Solaire wrote: »

So i always see on the forums people complain that, Nightblades are no more, no one plays them anymore or as they used to be,
like seriously stop it, they are the most played class in the game, there is no such a thing as "Extinct"
so why even bother with these comments? what makes you think they are extinct?
and why?
if you are one of those people, tell us why?

No class is extinct, some are played less than other due to some obvious "reasons" but i wouldn't say Nightblade is one of those low population classes,
they are definitely one of the top most played classes in the game.

Edit: just a recent match: https://ibb.co/M7wYrY8

Not in end game content, neither in high end PvP... In MMOs what matters is the top content, doesnt matter if 90% of the server are playing NBs, if only 5% of those players are doing top content, and 0% of those players are playing NBs.

That shows that at ''end game'' (what truly matters) NB is clearly behind all the other classes...

IMO Magicka NB need a burst heal... Get rid of Malevolent Offering (and morphs) and just give us a straight up burst heal, that could be a game changer for NB survival and group utility.

MaleAmazon · January 2020

Meh. My main is a magblade. Partly because I haven´t played that class much. Partly because it is still fun to play a nightblade and the red class colour scheme is easy on the eyes.

And nightblades aren´t bad, just different. They have more defensive power now and less burst offense.

In fact, all classes in the game are viable for all content, so calm down and at least pretend to try to enjoy yourself.

FrankonPC · January 2020

Destyran wrote: »

Yeah they scored a 10 for solo play Stam and a 10 for bombing they just scored low on group play and let’s be honest if your in a Zerg 9/10 it’s not organised and what you bring doesn’t really matter

What you bring to the table in a 12 man group DOES matter when you're fighting 24, 30, 40 people. Do you think stamblade out-performs anything in a 12 man group with those odds?

How about in a 4 man group fighting 10+ people? Is there anything else you would think is worse than stamblade in that situation?

FrankonPC · January 2020

The thing with stamblade specifically is that it's not bad. You can still kill a lot of people even with some mechanics underperforming due to poor players. That's the case on every class in the game. Solo with cloak and bow they have high survival rates because they're so strong.

When I play any other class, I am not really threatened by any stamblade in open world pvp from a 1 v 1 perspective. Now x v 1 if they're a sniper free-casting 7k + snipe desyncs is a different story, but as has been said in here, anything is strong x v 1'ing somebody.

Wardens have access to major protection and aoe major fracture via perma frost and stam sub assault. Magdens have access to major mending at lower health, making them good group healers. Wardens can fulfill multiple roles in group play settings. That's awesome!

Stam DKs have the hardest hitting ultimate in the game and can yeet groups with. Mag dks have access to two powerful synergies with standard and talons. Stam dk can also run talons If you're group is running a harmony build, mag dk has some utility here! They also can run molten armaments and buff everyone in their group with their major buffs. These aren't great, but there's utility here.

Sorcs have access to an AOE cc and negate magic(negate being one of the strongest ults in the game). They could honestly get some more group capability buffs but power surge and negate aren't awful and valuable from a pvp perspective.

Necros have aoe major vulnerability and stam also has aoe major defile. they also have access to the resurrection ult. Mag specs also excel with harmony builds making them a very nice have for group play pvp.

Templars have everything. They're great healers, a ground heal, a ground purge. One of the best synergies in the game with nova. Such a great class for group play.

And nightblades you have stam, which is good solo...and mag which is good as a bomber. That's basically it. They provide zero major buffs to their group in the same way that the other classes have. They don't make good healers, and they don't have an aoe YEET capability that classes like dk have. They're very niche.

And that was the point of my video. If you play magblade as a bomber, you'll have a good time! You won't really have a good time in any other aspect of pvp right now. If you play stamblade solo, or with a few other stamblades...you'll have a good time! If you're trying to defend points, play with a coordinated group, etc...your toolkit is extremely lacking compared to everyone else.

You can buff these classes to make them more viable in group play, WITHOUT making them godly 1 v 1 deleters that everyone fears so much.

Langeston · January 2020

[

FrankonPC wrote: »

Destyran wrote: »

Yeah they scored a 10 for solo play Stam and a 10 for bombing they just scored low on group play and let’s be honest if your in a Zerg 9/10 it’s not organised and what you bring doesn’t really matter

What you bring to the table in a 12 man group DOES matter when you're fighting 24, 30, 40 people. Do you think stamblade out-performs anything in a 12 man group with those odds?

How about in a 4 man group fighting 10+ people? Is there anything else you would think is worse than stamblade in that situation?

I started a similar reply to him, but then I saw that he plays magplar & seriously appears to believe that NBs are comparable to them. So I didn't even bother finishing it.

Ozazz · January 2020

night blades have been hit really hard these past two years, stop pretending zos initially doesn't persecute 1vx playstyle and at the top of that list sorcerer and nightblade would receive the worst punishment!

Kadoin · January 2020

Don't forget faction lock plays a role...

Unfadingsilence · January 2020

I hope that you all enjoy 😉✌
My Stamina NightBlade and BombBlade Gameplay

https://youtu.be/AUcx1qDCLOU

Vyvrhel · January 2020

Solaire wrote: »

So i always see on the forums people complain that, Nightblades are no more, no one plays them anymore or as they used to be,
like seriously stop it, they are the most played class in the game, there is no such a thing as "Extinct"
so why even bother with these comments? what makes you think they are extinct?
and why?
if you are one of those people, tell us why?

OK there is why: newbs would pick their class and race based either on experiences from previous games or general ingame description. This is why many newbs select a NB as their first char. Also, there is a lot of old pre nerf mains running around, either doing daily chores or overland content.

So the important question is, how many active endgame players, be it PVE or PVP, still run a NB for the class effectivity.

I am a casual overland roamer nothing even close to the top players, and a total noob in PvP. Yet after trying to PvP on my main cat stamblade, I switched for a brief time to my level 20 altmer mag templar, no pots, blue armor training traited, white jewelry, no monster set, Sloads + NMA or something like that (maybe Shackle and not Sload, not sure) IIRC I normally use for Alikr dolmen grind. I had much better win to loss ratio than on my Impen clad main and in several one to one encounters I won without much effort, nothing even remotely comparable to my miserable experiences on my main.

Lemonsinspace · January 2020

The only class near extinction are dps mag necros, I've seen a handful at best.

Asardes · January 2020

Lemonsinspace wrote: »

The only class near extinction are dps mag necros, I've seen a handful at best.

Yes, I can confirm, necros are way rarer now in PvP than they were shortly after Elsweyr launch. I was able to get the achievement for those on a char that I was doing BGs then, around June-July last year, now I barely killed 50-60 on my newer ones in December-January, with the other classes past 100 for a long time. One thing I noticed is that most of those Mag Necro specs were in fact tanks, with 30K+ HP, that don't do too much damage, but you can still burst them and add to the tally.

wolfbone · January 2020

we're really not, I'm sitting right here

Vyvrhel · January 2020

Lemonsinspace wrote: »

The only class near extinction are dps mag necros, I've seen a handful at best.

No surprise here since they are not the part of the base game. You cannot really compare a bonus class which was introduced half of an year ago with a base class. Anyway the absolute numbers (and not only for this reason) should not be the decisive factor. The question is if NB is still an effective class when compared to others.
And I think not. I think for several reasons the class is badly broken atm and what makes me worried is that NB got no love in Update 25.

Lemonsinspace · January 2020

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Lemonsinspace wrote: »

The only class near extinction are dps mag necros, I've seen a handful at best.

No surprise here since they are not the part of the base game. You cannot really compare a bonus class which was introduced half of an year ago with a base class. Anyway the absolute numbers (and not only for this reason) should not be the decisive factor. The question is if NB is still an effective class when compared to others.
And I think not. I think for several reasons the class is badly broken atm and what makes me worried is that NB got no love in Update 25.

Very true, however I do think that the clunky skills / a majority of skills are not viable for pvp. This issue is compounded by a lack of mag dps skills outside of the class. The ones that are useful are dots like entropy $:\$

Radiance · January 2020

Ik a lot of the emo kids who just gravitated to NB bc the class has aspects of darkness most likely switched to Necromancer as has been said before but NB will always have a steady lead over the Warden and Necromancer bc they were introduced later in the game.

I actually just dusted off my NB for the Midyear Mayhem event which has always been my second most played character after my Templar Main so idk wtf you're talking about.

rexagamemnon · January 2020

Nightblades are only good for ganking and if all you do is gank people who are just trying quest in cyrodill, you are the worst. Thats my opinion.
Dont see many nightblades as i used to though

Solaire · January 2020

Radiance wrote: »

Ik a lot of the emo kids who just gravitated to NB bc the class has aspects of darkness most likely switched to Necromancer as has been said before but NB will always have a steady lead over the Warden and Necromancer bc they were introduced later in the game.

I actually just dusted off my NB for the Midyear Mayhem event which has always been my second most played character after my Templar Main so idk wtf you're talking about.

u said it urself,

Solaire · January 2020

Lemonsinspace wrote: »

The only class near extinction are dps mag necros, I've seen a handful at best.

True

Langeston · April 2020

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

NB are not extinct... yet.

The only reason I see some one would roll a NB is cloak. You know, invisibility. That is pretty much the only thing left that I can think of that would make people go: "I think I will roll a NB". Other than that, NB is kinda pointless.

One skill. That is kinda... bad you know...

I simply fear that ZOS will pull again the same stuff as they did with fear - basically give it to every class in form of other very similar (and possibly superior) skill (Fighters Guild -> Turn Evil).

They are making a Vampire overhaul this year and they said that they will add some new skills to vampire skill line. If one of those skills is a skill that makes you invisible - then yes, it will be a RIP for NB and then we can say that they will go 110% obsolete & pointless as the last reason to pick a class will be gone.

Imho this should never be the case. Classes should have unique skills. Same as Consoles have exclusive titles. There should be a reason to pick a class. Multiple reasons in fact. In case of NB - it is only one reason. Powerful skills like fear or streak or DK leap should remain a class "exclusive" skills. Those should be reasons that define class and it's identity.

Imho giving easy access to fear was a mistake. Previously if you wanted VERY much to have fear on other class - you could - every class can be WW and WW has fear.

Speaking of fear, NB lost not only fear as their "unique" skill. Sorc got very similar copy-paste skill (Grim Focus -> Bound Armaments) and Dual wield got VERY similar gap closer to NB ambush.

@Tommy_The_Gun
Wow, you completely called it.