Solo/Group Settings - "Play The Way You Want"

Wifeaggro13 · January 2020

daemonios wrote: »

As OP says, this isn't the first thread discussing the very same issue. It probably won't be the last. Might as well have pitched in there instead of making another one IMO.

As far as the substance of the post, it seems they're trying to have their cake and eat it too, both addressing the fact that group dungeons are too hard for solo players, and that main story quests are too easy to be challenging for advanced players. Again, IMO, the real problem was how much ZOS nerfed "veteran" zones after One Tamriel. I understand the concept behind One Tamriel, but it did throw away any meaningful progression. You dominate overland at level 1, and still dominate it at level 50 CP 810. You may get more skills and passives, but the challenge is non-existent. If ZOS were to restore progression, maybe more people would become battle-ready to do DLC dungeon content and enjoy the story without yet another band-aid solution.

TAM one was a shortsighted and poorly implemented fix to players not liking the way the game was designed reguarding main story lock outs for solo player, faction locked zones and of course level disparity . People were diheartened when they came into game to find old friends that were at max lvl and locked in a diffrent faction. the better fix would have been to keep making a verticaly progressed game and the new player be able to have a mentorship and lvl up to the group leaders lvl . the problem is really as a new player why the hell do you need immediate access to every place and every thing on day 1 first minute of the game. besides making lvl 50 is like maximum 15 or 20 hours for a moderately experienced player with exp buffs. the story in this game is medicore at best and the RPG aspects are all fluff. if you want a deeply rich RPG experience and story go play witcher. right now this game is actually eating itself with no direction.

Blood_again · January 2020

Thank you for entirely nice composed system. I hope ZoS will implement it this way.

Iccotak wrote: »

I think having harder zones could work on a compromise but I think we tried that with Craglorn and no one wanted to play it.

Really, I lack the old Craglorn a lot. There are more people lack it I think.

Edziu · January 2020

TheFM wrote: »

Paramedicus wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

As long as no sets drop from mobs and bosses and players can never get a full set by just doing Solo mode then that's fine.

Yeah, it would work similar to rewards for leveling up. So if there are three different sets in given dungeon you could choose only (and always) chest from on of them at end of quest.
Gear drops being incentive for grinding those dungs in groups wouldnt suffice ofc, so these dungs should still be added to undaunted rotation (or there should be new undaunted quest introduced - like in your first post).

Iccotak wrote: »

would you mind if I added your idea to the post?

Go ahead. I don't think devs reads topics on this forum (tho maybe when some discussion gets massive attention from community) but we can still talk about it and entertain ourselves.

Sorry, u want story mode u get no rewards, you don't get rewards for less effort

hmm, I can add great argument to this

you go for story mode...so for better immersion like it would be in real story...nobody is here to plunder everything around, just doing quest/adventure, whatever just to have done it without being an scumbag plundering everything around

barney2525 · January 2020

Paramedicus wrote: »

i dunno why people quote Matt Frior over and over again, as this would somehow make ESO not a MMORPG but something else, different and unique.

ESO is MMORPG with strong focus on story (so with strong solo support). Modern MMOs generally shifted to more causal, solo players, and those games which used more vanilla approach (hardcore group focus) didn't do so well (see Wildcard as example). There are other MMORPG with strong focus on story like SWOTR or Secred World. ESO isnt someting unnamed and unique. ZOS just keep telling you this stuff, so TES players wont be afraid to try out ESO. Which is understandable (i don't count it as some malicious manipulation), because single-player TES gamers may see MMOs as some hardcore group stuff like early WoW.

(i know that quote from Matt will be used till the end of time anywayz).

Why would you think that Matt's quote is Not valid? And Why would you think that Your view is accurate ?

Just because you want the game to be what You want, does not mean the view of the " Office " is invalid somehow.

It seems to me that the DEVs are going to make the game what THEY want it to be, despite the conflict in what your view is.

If the DEVs say it is Not a traditional MMO, why should I buy in to your claims?

IMHO

Paramedicus · January 2020

TheFM wrote: »

Paramedicus wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

As long as no sets drop from mobs and bosses and players can never get a full set by just doing Solo mode then that's fine.

Yeah, it would work similar to rewards for leveling up. So if there are three different sets in given dungeon you could choose only (and always) chest from on of them at end of quest.
Gear drops being incentive for grinding those dungs in groups wouldnt suffice ofc, so these dungs should still be added to undaunted rotation (or there should be new undaunted quest introduced - like in your first post).

Iccotak wrote: »

would you mind if I added your idea to the post?

Go ahead. I don't think devs reads topics on this forum (tho maybe when some discussion gets massive attention from community) but we can still talk about it and entertain ourselves.

Sorry, u want story mode u get no rewards, you don't get rewards for less effort

It's not so big reward if you think about it (always same piece, so you won't be able to collect set even on multiple alts). It would be added to actually encourage group play (i.e to re-visit dungeon with group, if you liked that set piece and now want to farm whole set).

Paramedicus · January 2020

barney2525 wrote: »

Paramedicus wrote: »

i dunno why people quote Matt Frior over and over again, as this would somehow make ESO not a MMORPG but something else, different and unique.

ESO is MMORPG with strong focus on story (so with strong solo support). Modern MMOs generally shifted to more causal, solo players, and those games which used more vanilla approach (hardcore group focus) didn't do so well (see Wildcard as example). There are other MMORPG with strong focus on story like SWOTR or Secred World. ESO isnt someting unnamed and unique. ZOS just keep telling you this stuff, so TES players wont be afraid to try out ESO. Which is understandable (i don't count it as some malicious manipulation), because single-player TES gamers may see MMOs as some hardcore group stuff like early WoW.

(i know that quote from Matt will be used till the end of time anywayz).

Why would you think that Matt's quote is Not valid? And Why would you think that Your view is accurate ?

Just because you want the game to be what You want, does not mean the view of the " Office " is invalid somehow.

It seems to me that the DEVs are going to make the game what THEY want it to be, despite the conflict in what your view is.

If the DEVs say it is Not a traditional MMO, why should I buy in to your claims?

IMHO

It is not my view. It is a fact. Check other games and just compare, closest one to ESO imo is Secret World (MMORPG developed before ESO):

story is very solo-able; quests are voiced and interesting. In some way i feel that SW quest are often done better than in ESO (there are hard riddles; sometimes you can choose how to do quests: by fighting or sneaking etc). So sometimes SW gives better illusion that you play single-player game than ESO (sometimes not, esp. if quest is about kil x stuff).
there are zones (like in ESO) with own questlines and there is also main quest line.
every few levels you unlock dungeon which need to be done with small group
later you unlock raids
there is also play-how-you want vibe: classless system, you make build by using 2 weapons (bar-swap :P) and learning skills
combat is dynamic and depends on targeting (crosshair)
there are 3 factions fighting with each-other (thats not so important tbh :P)
i'm too lazy to think about more similarites because i played SW long time ago

And guess what? Nobody says that SW isn't MMORPG, because that would be just silly. If you want to hear my opinion, then I would say that ESO devs were heavily inspired by SW (but i can't know that ofc).

MMORPG is old genre now,, so particular games vary. Some MMORPGs are for hardcore grinders (esp. Asian ones), some lure you with cool, fast paced combat system (i.e Black Desert) and some with story (SWOTR, SW, ESO). OFC all modern and successful MMORPGs don't have just one type of content, so SWOTR, SW, ESO aren't just about story.

Anyway, what I'm trying to tell you (and other people quoting Matt): there isn't anything particular unique in ESO. I don't think that ESO has any unique or revolutionary mechanic concerning solo-play. I really like ESO tho, because it's well done MMORPG with many proven-to-work MMOPRG features (which may also include questing and story) + it's in TES universe. Sorry, but claimnig that ESO isn't MMORPG or is something unique is just bit ignorant..

If you want to know my opinion about Matt's words ("ESO is not really a traditional MMO..."), then I think he just wanted to say that ESO won't be another WoW clone (most people think about WoW when they hear term MMORPG). People quoting him ignore key-word used there (traditional). He isn't saying that ESO isn't MMO - IMO his message means "don't worry, it won't be TES-WoW with raiding 24/7".

Iccotak · January 2020

The point of the system is to support Solo and to encourage Group Play

this is an MMO and I don't see why there shouldn't be a system that allows players to tackle the Story Boss fights with their friends.

I think we can reach an ideal compromise between Craglorn, Daedric War, & Season of the Dragon

barney2525 · January 2020

Paramedicus wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Paramedicus wrote: »

i dunno why people quote Matt Frior over and over again, as this would somehow make ESO not a MMORPG but something else, different and unique.

ESO is MMORPG with strong focus on story (so with strong solo support). Modern MMOs generally shifted to more causal, solo players, and those games which used more vanilla approach (hardcore group focus) didn't do so well (see Wildcard as example). There are other MMORPG with strong focus on story like SWOTR or Secred World. ESO isnt someting unnamed and unique. ZOS just keep telling you this stuff, so TES players wont be afraid to try out ESO. Which is understandable (i don't count it as some malicious manipulation), because single-player TES gamers may see MMOs as some hardcore group stuff like early WoW.

(i know that quote from Matt will be used till the end of time anywayz).

Why would you think that Matt's quote is Not valid? And Why would you think that Your view is accurate ?

Just because you want the game to be what You want, does not mean the view of the " Office " is invalid somehow.

It seems to me that the DEVs are going to make the game what THEY want it to be, despite the conflict in what your view is.

If the DEVs say it is Not a traditional MMO, why should I buy in to your claims?

IMHO

It is not my view. It is a fact. Check other games and just compare, closest one to ESO imo is Secret World (MMORPG developed before ESO):
story is very solo-able; quests are voiced and interesting. In some way i feel that SW quest are often done better than in ESO (there are hard riddles; sometimes you can choose how to do quests: by fighting or sneaking etc). So sometimes SW gives better illusion that you play single-player game than ESO (sometimes not, esp. if quest is about kil x stuff).

there are zones (like in ESO) with own questlines and there is also main quest line.

every few levels you unlock dungeon which need to be done with small group

later you unlock raids

there is also play-how-you want vibe: classless system, you make build by using 2 weapons (bar-swap :P) and learning skills

combat is dynamic and depends on targeting (crosshair)

there are 3 factions fighting with each-other (thats not so important tbh :P)

i'm too lazy to think about more similarites because i played SW long time ago

And guess what? Nobody says that SW isn't MMORPG, because that would be just silly. If you want to hear my opinion, then I would say that ESO devs were heavily inspired by SW (but i can't know that ofc).

MMORPG is old genre now,, so particular games vary. Some MMORPGs are for hardcore grinders (esp. Asian ones), some lure you with cool, fast paced combat system (i.e Black Desert) and some with story (SWOTR, SW, ESO). OFC all modern and successful MMORPGs don't have just one type of content, so SWOTR, SW, ESO aren't just about story.

Anyway, what I'm trying to tell you (and other people quoting Matt): there isn't anything particular unique in ESO. I don't think that ESO has any unique or revolutionary mechanic concerning solo-play. I really like ESO tho, because it's well done MMORPG with many proven-to-work MMOPRG features (which may also include questing and story) + it's in TES universe. Sorry, but claimnig that ESO isn't MMORPG or is something unique is just bit ignorant..

If you want to know my opinion about Matt's words ("ESO is not really a traditional MMO..."), then I think he just wanted to say that ESO won't be another WoW clone (most people think about WoW when they hear term MMORPG). People quoting him ignore key-word used there (traditional). He isn't saying that ESO isn't MMO - IMO his message means "don't worry, it won't be TES-WoW with raiding 24/7".

You are just splitting hairs, and I really don't see what the big deal is. You examples from SW do not all mimic ESO
>story is soloable - applies to all games, whether mmo or not. there is always going to be a main line quest and side quests in the areas that you enter
>zones - again, applies to all games, whether mmo or not
>level unlock dungeon you Need to do with a group - Not in ESO
>Unlock raids - Not in ESO You can raid to your hearts content, dont need to unlock them
>classless system - Not in ESO. Classes have specific skillsets despite the 'play as you want' theme
>crosshair targeting - Not in ESO, which uses tab targeting
> I agree, the number of factions is irrelevant

All of this is just tangents. It seems to me that you have a hard time accepting that a game that has Some aspects of an MMO might be considered by the developers as Unique, so THEY choose not to look at it as purely an MMO.

You are welcome to your opinion, but it still Only your opinion. And Nobody's Opinion is a basis for calling someone else's viewpoint Invalid - especially when The Devs are the ones who have ALL the information about the game that we, the players never hear about. After all, in your above statements you have decided ' Why " Matt said some of the things he said - without actually consulting Matt. You just drew your own conclusions and espouse them as if they are fact.

That you believe that you speak For Matt is rather.... interesting.

IMHO

Paramedicus · January 2020

oh m8, i dunno what to say to you anymore.

me: "sky is blue. sea is also blue."
you: "this is just your opinion. IMHO.

"

If there is no single unique mechanic for solo-play in this game, how can anyone say that this game is unique? This is a fact, you know. We should be able to recognize if some mechanic was used elswere - it's not rocket science. I'm not trying to criticize ESO - I like this game, it's better than SW imo. One unique mechanic in ESO that I see, are skill lines tied to story (i.e. thieves guild skill line), maybe (i don't remember if it was used before somewhere). But that's it - hardly revolutionary.

And - most importantly - i'm not saying that devs are clueless about what they were saying. I'm saying that you are interpreting their words in way, that gives you conviniet argument in discussion about importance of multiplayer aspects in this game. IMHO devs were just saying that ESO won't be another WoW clone (and it isn't fortunately!) and single-player experience gonna be important.. but some people took it as ESO not being a MMORPG, which just isn't true (for real, sky and sea are blue!).

TheFM · January 2020

Paramedicus wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Paramedicus wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

As long as no sets drop from mobs and bosses and players can never get a full set by just doing Solo mode then that's fine.

Yeah, it would work similar to rewards for leveling up. So if there are three different sets in given dungeon you could choose only (and always) chest from on of them at end of quest.
Gear drops being incentive for grinding those dungs in groups wouldnt suffice ofc, so these dungs should still be added to undaunted rotation (or there should be new undaunted quest introduced - like in your first post).

Iccotak wrote: »

would you mind if I added your idea to the post?

Go ahead. I don't think devs reads topics on this forum (tho maybe when some discussion gets massive attention from community) but we can still talk about it and entertain ourselves.

Sorry, u want story mode u get no rewards, you don't get rewards for less effort

It's not so big reward if you think about it (always same piece, so you won't be able to collect set even on multiple alts). It would be added to actually encourage group play (i.e to re-visit dungeon with group, if you liked that set piece and now want to farm whole set).

Lol, that's not how ppl work. If set pieces were available in story, it would obliterate a huge portion of the dungeon community cuz why bother putting on effort if u can do easy solo mode?

Iccotak · January 2020

while Solo play is out of bounds according to ZOS in the thread I would still like to see a Group mode for Season & Story final bosses.

January1171 · January 2020

"Play the way you want" has been twisted. The intention is not "Play all content in game as a solo player if you want!" or "Play pvp everywhere/nowhere" or "I'm a super low dpser but want to play high level trials as a dps" or any variation of that

It's that you can play any race any class in any role.
It's that you have the choice of solo/group/pvp/pve/collecting/housing/casual/hardcore/etc playstyles

it's that you have a lot of options on what aspects of the game you want to play to play how you want, not that you can crossplay different aspects of the game ( i.e. a solo player playing group content)

FierceSam · January 2020

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

As OP says, this isn't the first thread discussing the very same issue. It probably won't be the last. Might as well have pitched in there instead of making another one IMO.

As far as the substance of the post, it seems they're trying to have their cake and eat it too, both addressing the fact that group dungeons are too hard for solo players, and that main story quests are too easy to be challenging for advanced players. Again, IMO, the real problem was how much ZOS nerfed "veteran" zones after One Tamriel. I understand the concept behind One Tamriel, but it did throw away any meaningful progression. You dominate overland at level 1, and still dominate it at level 50 CP 810. You may get more skills and passives, but the challenge is non-existent. If ZOS were to restore progression, maybe more people would become battle-ready to do DLC dungeon content and enjoy the story without yet another band-aid solution.

TAM one was a shortsighted and poorly implemented fix to players not liking the way the game was designed reguarding main story lock outs for solo player, faction locked zones and of course level disparity . People were diheartened when they came into game to find old friends that were at max lvl and locked in a diffrent faction. the better fix would have been to keep making a verticaly progressed game and the new player be able to have a mentorship and lvl up to the group leaders lvl . the problem is really as a new player why the hell do you need immediate access to every place and every thing on day 1 first minute of the game. besides making lvl 50 is like maximum 15 or 20 hours for a moderately experienced player with exp buffs. the story in this game is medicore at best and the RPG aspects are all fluff. if you want a deeply rich RPG experience and story go play witcher. right now this game is actually eating itself with no direction.

I would so like a 'Disagree' button for comments like this.

It does sound like it's not the game for you tho...

ProfessorKittyhawk · January 2020

Interesting idea. But one slight correction: the Craglorn trials are sort of mean to be the ending of the Craglorn main story. Whoever has played through it will see that it kind of just ends. The trials are meant to serve as a cap to the story and resolve the remaining missing star signs.

Iccotak · January 2020

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

Interesting idea. But one slight correction: the Craglorn trials are sort of mean to be the ending of the Craglorn main story. Whoever has played through it will see that it kind of just ends. The trials are meant to serve as a cap to the story and resolve the remaining missing star signs.

They were but it was rarely participated in.
The hope of the proposal is to have a better compromise between Solo Story & Group content than what we currently have

Chicharron · January 2020

so...

you want us to play the way you want.

Kahnak · January 2020

Iccotak wrote: »

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

Interesting idea. But one slight correction: the Craglorn trials are sort of mean to be the ending of the Craglorn main story. Whoever has played through it will see that it kind of just ends. The trials are meant to serve as a cap to the story and resolve the remaining missing star signs.

They were but it was rarely participated in.
The hope of the proposal is to have a better compromise between Solo Story & Group content than what we currently have

The trials were rarely participated in, or the questline? Either way, that is demonstrably false. People are still running Craglorn trials and the whole reason people completed the story in the first place was to get a Nirnhoned piece of gear to research, which happened well after Craglorn was current content.

Isskander · January 2020

So strange feeling when people chose to play MMO and than want to play solo ... O_o.
Maybe it means that people dont understand what they are doing ? ... I'm still confused in this

Kahnak · January 2020

-

Iccotak · January 2020

Chicharron wrote: »

so...

you want us to play the way you want.

No I want players to have the option for solo or group content.

I want the choice to do a group version of the boss that is just as rewarding as a dungeon. (both mechanics and items)
At the same time I still want solo players to have the choice to play it casually.

I think is more relevant now that dungeons are part of the year long story.

Paramedicus · January 2020

TheFM wrote: »

Lol, that's not how ppl work. If set pieces were available in story, it would obliterate a huge portion of the dungeon community cuz why bother putting on effort if u can do easy solo mode?

butbutbut im talking about one piece, same part and one time only - just to give a taste for what can be farmed in group mode.

Iccotak · January 2020

Paramedicus wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Lol, that's not how ppl work. If set pieces were available in story, it would obliterate a huge portion of the dungeon community cuz why bother putting on effort if u can do easy solo mode?

butbutbut im talking about one piece, same part and one time only - just to give a taste for what can be farmed in group mode.

if it was one pice one time how could someone get a taste for it? You need 2-3 to start getting any benefits

Tommy_The_Gun · January 2020

Interesting idea. But personally I would like to see solo or group mode for every type of end game content.

For solo we only have Maelstrom arena. But imagine if we would have different mode for Maelstrom arena that could be done with a group, with Different / altered mechanics and different achievements.

Same could be done for Dungeons, other arenas and even Trials - by adding solo mode.

It is a perfect way to re-use old content & assets by slightly altering mechanics and adding different achievements. Also it would not have to be easy "story mode", but rather nMA or vMA level of difficulty.

Would fit perfectly to the "play as you want" philosophy. You want to play group with your friends ? Select group mode.
You are a lone wolf type of person and want to play solo and test your mantle rather than group skills ? Just select solo mode.

Iccotak · January 2020

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Interesting idea. But personally I would like to see solo or group mode for every type of end game content.

For solo we only have Maelstrom arena. But imagine if we would have different mode for Maelstrom arena that could be done with a group, with Different / altered mechanics and different achievements.

Same could be done for Dungeons, other arenas and even Trials - by adding solo mode.

It is a perfect way to re-use old content & assets by slightly altering mechanics and adding different achievements. Also it would not have to be easy "story mode", but rather nMA or vMA level of difficulty.

Would fit perfectly to the "play as you want" philosophy. You want to play group with your friends ? Select group mode.
You are a lone wolf type of person and want to play solo and test your mantle rather than group skills ? Just select solo mode.

at this point I don't see why ZOS did not see this as an inevitability.

Point A ) Dungeons are integral to the story meaning that important story is behind Dungeons
Point B ) Dungeons are not integral to the story and the "Year Long Story" is just marketing

If Point A is true then Solo/Group mode for content would allow a more consistent gameplay experience for Season story as a whole.
If Point B is true then Solo & Group playstyles are, more or less, segregated with the every other quarter catering to different playstyle audiences. There would be no point in ever crossing the two. (problem is that it results in an inconsistent story experience)

Iccotak · February 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENE8s0HDEVs

idk · February 2020

theyancey wrote: »

Moreover this type approach would be in keeping with Matt's blueprint for the game. Ignore the threads that you see about how ESO is an RPG or MMO. Instead take it from the person who developed,built, and runs the game. This quote from Matt Frior is just as true today as it was in 2016:

ESO is not really a traditional MMO, so we don’t use that term much around the office – and it is this distinction that separates it from other games. If you want to play it solo, like you did with other Elder Scrolls games, you can do that. If you want to play it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of you experience, you can join up with others and do that too. It’s really up to you to figure out how you want to play it, as we don’t enforce a play style one way or the other. In fact, ESO has been super-successful at taking gamers not used to massive online games, introducing them to the concepts of group play by making it fun and optional, and turning them into online gamers.

I believe that such a solo mode for group content would be the easiest way to make the game as accessible to the many without placing any undue burden on the few. Instead of a cost it is a moneymaker. It holds true to both the history of the TES franchise and to the vision of the creator of ESO. I'm all for it.

I edited the first part of the quote but kept some to ensure context was retained.

The comment attributed to Matt Firor is very similar to comments Zos made before the game was launched in March 2014. It makes it clear that some content would be solo and some content would be for groups. That also makes it clear Zos has no intentions in making everything available for solo and everything available for groups.

That being said, it makes a lot of sense for Zos to create a solo version of dungeons that are connected to the solo quest lines as they did last year and are repeating this year. Last year and this year are the only cases of content where solo players are actually forced to group with others just to complete the story. Zos attempted this in Craglorn but quickly learned their lesson and eventually made soloing Craglorn possible.

The same argument does not apply nor fit with OP's suggestion of creating group content out of the storyline in the zone DLCs.

DarkPicture · February 2020

> Solo dung
> max 2 people

Welcome in eso community xD

Iccotak · February 2020

Browart wrote: »

> Solo dung
> max 2 people

Welcome in eso community xD

the point is to allow the CHOICE for players to play with their friend (like the Ring of Mara couple players)
If a player wants to be purely by them-self then that is an option

dazee · February 2020

Group finder is broken and that is why people quit over having to use it. it has been broken for the vast majority of the time the game has existed.

Also if the play how you want promise is ever going to be delivered on at all, the huge balance issues which make certain weapon choices and skills so much better have to be fixed. Why the hell has arrow barrage/endless hail been allowed to work the way it does for so long?! that one skill makes bow basically a requirement for stam dps.