Well that escalated quickly.

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Tantrum ignored.

Ice Staves are fine and unique, can be used for damage as well. I play Ice staff front bar in PvP on a Warden and I love it.
Ice mage is a thing for Wardens with the 10% to frost damage which include Frost staff LA, as well. On PTS Warden got extra critical damage on chilled targets. So ya, you can definitely be an Ice mage on a Warden and be viable.

Not quite. We don't have the abilities for it yet. And the frost staff still has it's issues. I don't fully necessarily agree with what has been said but i do see some merit.

Lughlongarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Tantrum ignored.

Ice Staves are fine and unique, can be used for damage as well. I play Ice staff front bar in PvP on a Warden and I love it.
Ice mage is a thing for Wardens with the 10% to frost damage which include Frost staff LA, as well. On PTS Warden got extra critical damage on chilled targets. So ya, you can definitely be an Ice mage on a Warden and be viable.

Not quite. We don't have the abilities for it yet. And the frost staff still has it's issues. I don't fully necessarily agree with what has been said but i do see some merit.

Ok sure, but what do you mean by "We don't have the abilities for it yet" ? And what are you not agreeing with, that frost staff is viable? Didn't say it will be BiS trial dps option, just said it is viable. For PVP you can defiantly make some strong arguments for Ice staff front bar on specific builds.

We have basically just ground aoe DoTs. Not enough viable variety.

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Tantrum ignored.

Ice Staves are fine and unique, can be used for damage as well. I play Ice staff front bar in PvP on a Warden and I love it.
Ice mage is a thing for Wardens with the 10% to frost damage which include Frost staff LA, as well. On PTS Warden got extra critical damage on chilled targets. So ya, you can definitely be an Ice mage on a Warden and be viable.

Wow y'all getting 10%. While my poor

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Tantrum ignored.

Ice Staves are fine and unique, can be used for damage as well. I play Ice staff front bar in PvP on a Warden and I love it.
Ice mage is a thing for Wardens with the 10% to frost damage which include Frost staff LA, as well. On PTS Warden got extra critical damage on chilled targets. So ya, you can definitely be an Ice mage on a Warden and be viable.

Just remember you never have it as bad as a lightning staff. Forever getting nerf. Your unset about 10%damage on your pay to win warden. Sorcerer ONLY GET 5% extra damage to lightning attack. Lightning is about heavy attack damage. Lightning is getting MASSIVE NERF with cooldown that apply to any build with a cleanse or purge. Basically reducing the cooldown of off balance to NON EXISTING. 1 clease equal almost never having off balance up. TRUST ME YOUR ICE WARDEN IS TWICE AS GOOD THEN MY SORCERER in terms of passive and future NERFS.

it's easy to get angry at one aspect of a class when you don't take into consideration the other factors.

JanTanhide wrote: »

The only issue I have with Ice staves is when I'm in a dungeon (PUG) and someone is using it and doesn't realize they are taunting with it (most of the time they have unlocked the passives).

It isn't too bad in normal dungeons but in Vet it is disastrous.

An option in there somewhere for taunting would be nice. Then players would at least realize they selected it. They may not know what Taunts are but they will soon find out. LOL.

about that, i think they might actually know about the issue. i can't claim that they are going to do anything about it necessarily, but on the PTS, the only passive that wasn't automatically unlocked on a new character template, IS tri-focus. it's a little far-fetched to be a coincidence right? it's the only passive in the game that people don't pick sometimes.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

You seriously prefer 10% frost damage on lightning damage 5% +aoe channel heavy attacks+8% more aoe damage?

Not the OP, but I do find it an issue when Sorcerers (THE lightning class) are pigeon-holed into double Inferno staves for PvE DPS due to the passives. Even my PvP magSorc uses an Inferno staff and the step up from Lightning (which I tried hard to make work) was very noticeable.

On Sorcerer, the problem is compounded because, unlike the Warden whose kit is entirely Frost and Magic damage (which are BOTH covered in their 10% passsive), Sorcerer abilities are divided between Lightning and Magic damage, which means that their passive (5% Lightning and Physical) only covers ~half their skills (and even fewer if you use Inferno staves).

So a magWarden's damage is increased by a full 10% whereas the magSorc's... 3-4%? Of course, the damage baseline matters, but on its face, the gap in efficacy granted from their respective elemental passive seems problematic.

Single-target damage is, sadly, simply the dominant mode of damage in ESO, in either PvE or PvP, which is why the Inferno passives reign supreme across in all formats. Warden passives are being tailored to try to make Frost viable (which is laudable) but magSorcs should receive an equal inducement to consider running a Lightning staff.

To me, that either means increasing the class damage passive to at least the Warden's 10% or increase/change the Destruction passive for Lightning because, in the overwhelming majority of situations, 8% more single-target damage is infinitely more useful than 8% AoE. And if that means that baseline damage numbers must be adjusted for balance, IMO, so be it.

The reason why warden's passive increases are that high is because more power is in our passives and slotted effects than any other class.

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Tantrum ignored.

Ice Staves are fine and unique, can be used for damage as well. I play Ice staff front bar in PvP on a Warden and I love it.
Ice mage is a thing for Wardens with the 10% to frost damage which include Frost staff LA, as well. On PTS Warden got extra critical damage on chilled targets. So ya, you can definitely be an Ice mage on a Warden and be viable.

I use ice staff on back bar in pve. But you still get people OMG YOU ARE USING ICE STAFF. and i say OMG I AM BUT I HAVE FIRE STAFF ON FRONT BAR AND NEVER HEAVY ATTACK ON BACKBAR.

people cant see that.

I wonder, with glacial passive change, if ice staff backbar, fire staff front on warden will be best damage?

karekiz wrote: »

Doubtful it would change anything.

Fire - Bonus to ST Damage
Lighting - Bonus to AoE Damage
Ice - Bonus to?

should be bonus to crit.

Lightning bonus is only if you stay on the bar (i believe) So its aoe bonus is not that potent
Fire bonus is for front bar since that is where most your single target abilities are.
Wardens get 10% bonus to frost dmg which carries across bars and not having it on back bar wouldnt it apply chill increasing their crit dmg on both bars by 10%

for magden. Fire staff front bar, Ice staff bar bar seems to be the way to go.

Lughlongarm wrote: »

xbobx15 wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Tantrum ignored.

Ice Staves are fine and unique, can be used for damage as well. I play Ice staff front bar in PvP on a Warden and I love it.
Ice mage is a thing for Wardens with the 10% to frost damage which include Frost staff LA, as well. On PTS Warden got extra critical damage on chilled targets. So ya, you can definitely be an Ice mage on a Warden and be viable.

I use ice staff on back bar in pve. But you still get people OMG YOU ARE USING ICE STAFF. and i say OMG I AM BUT I HAVE FIRE STAFF ON FRONT BAR AND NEVER HEAVY ATTACK ON BACKBAR.

people cant see that.

I wonder, with glacial passive change, if ice staff backbar, fire staff front on warden will be best damage?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3wionuilO0

does winters revenge not give chilled? if so why would you run ice glyph and not weapon dmg glyph

Somber97866 wrote: »

In my opinion they should've put an option to select wether you wanted ice stave for damage or "ice staff tanking" in the passives.
They could've kept the passive " Tri Focus " the same and added an extra sit to put a skill point in a spot that makes ice staves aggro and use mag instead of Stam.
Then we could've had actual ice mages and ice tanks but they didn't. You know why? Because they don't give a @#$& about what out want!
Zos doesn't give a @#$& about you or I want. As long as the money comes in they don't give a @#$& about anything you want unless you unanimously cry in unison together!
Just remember that from now on and everything in eso will make a lot more sense!

I think if the devs would do the follow tanking could improve dramatically.

Each class should have a morphed ability update so it does an AoE taunt that doesminor fracture and breach to all enemies hit.

Each weapon should have a morphed ability that also does a AoE and applies minor maim.

To me this would allow players a bit more in how they design their tanks. Healers have a bit more in design than tanks; yeah healers need healing staves like tank needs the 1h and shield but I use one and sometimes two abilities from the resto line whereas my tank uses 3.

There needs to be more ways to tank than 1h & shield.

Lightning is an AOE weapon that simply outperforms fire if using using mostly AOE skills. In 3 DPS runs having one DD build for AOE in trashy stuff is not a bad idea; think DSA 2h use cases for a stam. Even in trials: a magsorc used Impulse in all mag godslayer run with lightning staff front bar (even with full MagDK engulfing flames present). As a Sorc, have you tested an AOE setup as that's what lightning is for. I have heard that DSA Destro is pretty potent as well, but not sure how it compares to 5-pc + Impulse.

Frost

For optimizing damage alone Frost cannot work (I think) as all it would do is increase chill uptime for additional 10% crit damage uptime. Fire/Light add 8% for ST/AOE. The staff would have to increase chill uptime by 80% assuming Spell Critical is already 100% to beat fire/light...right? Fire doesn't buff Fissure and there's some multiplier effects not accounted for, but that's still a mountain to clime for front bar frost staff in terms of maximizing DPS.

IMO the potential for Warden to use frost staff is back bar next patch. Definitely worth giving a good test particularly when a MagDK isn't in the group. Unstable Wall not being a top skill source of DPS (directly) holds the idea back a bit.

Interaction of Warden and Asylum destro could get more interesting. May or may not change a staff or a glyph.

However, the benefit of frost is not really damage but CC and Mitigation which can be beneficial for PvP and non-glass cannon solo PvE. Does it make sense to have all the staffs be equal at ST damage anyway? Then we would just reduce the number of mag weapons from 3 to 1.

Good point. I had been thinking about that. I think the Fire always ends up trumping everything in optimization because it is also assumed the full 10% engulfing is applied and the targets are burning 100% of the time. Fire is just strictly better on live because skills inclusive of Warden passives (and LA/HA's) are buffed by a minimum of 10%, 18% for single target magic skills, and up to 22% on fire wall. Warden passives + frost staff + engulfing buff all skills to just 10%. This leaves out Force Pulse and Ele Weapon because they are wonky mixed damage types.

According to a test the new passive gives is about a 4% if chilled is up 100%. The questions worth thinking about

Will a frost staff front or back increase the uptime enough to overshadow the extra damage fire provides on the 18% buffed skills like Fetcher, Degen, Racer, etc.? I think likely not for ST.

How does Force Pulse, Ele Weapon, Frost Glyphs or Asylum fit in? Possibilities and Asiangod does not the niche glyph option.

Will lightning be better if going fully AOE (Impulse)? Note Winters, Fissure, and Mystic are +18% with lightning which is most of Magden AOE damage; it's only 10% with Frost staff. Frost Wall, Light Attack, and Impulse are 10% instead of 8% with Lightning. How does they play out with new passive? Additionally, for an AOE build going Asylum staff might beat both anyway, but Fire or Frost?

Not related to mechanics but rather to elemental theming: How did Fire get to be the single-target damage type and Lightning get the AoE designation anyway?

Has anyone actually SEEN a wildfire? It spreads from place to place, always seeking out new fuel sources and covering a wide area if not extinguished. How is that not classic AoE?

Meanwhile, has anyone ever seen a bolt of actual lightning? It is purely single-target in terms of when it goes to ground. Lightning can strike with high frequency but it is not blanketing an entire area in the way that we understand AoE in games.

Seems to me like ZOS devs have never been outside, SMH.