Ideas for the Nightblade reborn - DoTs, debuffs and CC?

Vyvrhel · January 2020

So as it looks like the times of high single target assassin are over since the PvP playerbase just hates them and everywhere. OK.
What shall the class get after it lost it's previous purpose?
In may MMO games the rogue is (or can be specced into) an evasive and sneaky CC, debuff and DoT specialist. Shall ZOS go this way?

susmitds · January 2020

Nope, NB is an assassin, it is exactly what it should be. A generic debuffer means loss of identity. If PvP playerbase hates you, then you are doing something right.

1mirg · January 2020

Nightblades are Assassins, so they should have more Single Target DMG focus more then anything else as that'll make the most sense. Which to be honest, i still don't feel like the class is properly done even though i've been a NB since beta and considering that AOE's seem to be the bread and butter to most classes in combat now a days, I hope the class does get a rework so it can be more efficient then it is now, which isn't in a good state right now.

Coppes · January 2020

[Nightblades] are adventurers and opportunists (taking advantage of others misfortune) with a gift for getting in and out of trouble. Relying variously on stealth, blades and speed, they thrive on conflict and misfortune trusting to their luck and cunning to survive.

— Official Nightblade description from the game

I could of seen Nightblades as a DoT-Burst class. Dealing increased damage for the amounts of DoTs on a target. With a wide array of debuffs.

Solo Play - Sneaking in and out of stealth chipping away at the enemy until the opportune moment to strike.

Group Play - Tossing debuffs at the enemy from a range: maim, slower movement, removing buffs, etc. Maybe even setting traps and marking targets (with clear visibility to your teammates).

susmitds wrote: »

Nope, NB is an assassin, it is exactly what it should be. A generic debuffer means loss of identity. If PvP playerbase hates you, then you are doing something right.

Being a debuffer and acting on those debuffs is actually more identifying than being known for going invisible.

And if we are known for that at least lower the cost on Shadowy Disguise or maybe increase the duration of stealth.

Firebrand10 · January 2020

Stamina and Magicka NB isn't even a class anymore. It's just a shell of what it once was. So any change that makes it actually viable again, I'm down.

Vyvrhel · January 2020

susmitds wrote: »

Nope, NB is an assassin, it is exactly what it should be. A generic debuffer means loss of identity. If PvP playerbase hates you, then you are doing something right.

Well not ME but the class. Otherwise I fully agree, yet I do not expect devs to risk it and give NB back the burst.

Vyvrhel · January 2020

Since we started to discuss the sneak and invisibility, what about to give the sneak to NB only? Sorc should have a spell like the cloak, a costly invisibility for a short time duration. This way, sneak would become the trademark of NB class.

killingspreeb16_ESO · January 2020

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Since we started to discuss the sneak and invisibility, what about to give the sneak to NB only? Sorc should have a spell like the cloak, a costly invisibility for a short time duration. This way, sneak would become the trademark of NB class.

What a terrible idea,this is not WoW,rogue with stealth mage with invisibility.
And sneak is almost useless in this current form outside ganking with a bow i guess.

Sorcerer are not nightblade,nightblade is the class with illusion/destruction magic.
Sorcerer is the class with destruction/summoning magic.

Different class took different abilities/magic school from the single player game to define the class.

ArchMikem · January 2020

susmitds wrote: »

Nope, NB is an assassin, it is exactly what it should be.

Actually had an Assassin-y moment last night. Group of Yellows were defending the porch of Nikel from a group of Blues. I was the first red to arrive from Ash ahead of a group. Buff, stealth, got in behind. I got two players in a row before they realized.

This event has actually made Laatvulon fun for once. Sucks it's going to go right back to an empty AD buff campaign when it's over.

Vyvrhel · January 2020

ArchMikem wrote: »

Actually had an Assassin-y moment last night.

Nice. Now the question is, was it because you are a NB? Did the class skills helped you to achieve that?

Vyvrhel · January 2020

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

What a terrible idea,this is not WoW,rogue with stealth mage with invisibility.
And sneak is almost useless in this current form outside ganking with a bow i guess.

I agree, this is not WOW. Yet what would you give to the rogue class, i.e. NB, to be somehow special. Everybody and his granny can sneak, and most of the classes atm have stronger damage abilities. So what is NB supposed to be. This is the question.

Kombinator · January 2020

The ability to go invisibility, and sneak around with no effort makes the class probably the hardest to balance ever. They always land the first strike.

I would make them focused on single target damage still. Most debuffs should be strong, but short timed. Go in destroy your foe, get out. Problem is, that doing so would make it overpowered for PVP. So it must be scaled, that he can't just destroy everyone, and give time to react/counteract.

I think, that they should be able to kill pure damage with ease. Mages who put 0 defense on themselves. But once some exta defense is place, then they should have some struggle to put down their target. Heavy defense should counter this tactic right away. So they could NEVER melt the 40k+ tank in a single swoop.

In order to allow them to fight such foes they need a few defensive skills. So that they don't die instantly, if the first strike fails.

Vyvrhel · January 2020

Kombinator wrote: »

sneak around with no effort

Sneak is costly. It will drain your stamina pool so once caught - and you can be caught rather often - you start at significant disadvantage. As it should be. But remember everyone in the game can sneak so sneaking is not really the NB thing.

Cloaking i.e. the invisibility spell is also expensive. When stamina specced you can maintain the cloak only for a very short time.

Kombinator wrote: »

I would make them focused on single target damage still. Most debuffs should be strong, but short timed. Go in destroy your foe, get out. Problem is, that doing so would make it overpowered for PVP. So it must be scaled, that he can't just destroy everyone, and give time to react/counteract.

I think, that they should be able to kill pure damage with ease. Mages who put 0 defense on themselves. But once some exta defense is place, then they should have some struggle to put down their target. Heavy defense should counter this tactic right away. So they could NEVER melt the 40k+ tank in a single swoop.

In order to allow them to fight such foes they need a few defensive skills. So that they don't die instantly, if the first strike fails.

I agree that the hit and run tactics should be the best choice for a NB. But people hated, hate and always will hate it so once you give NBs proper tools for such a tactics, there will be unavoidably a lot of yelling at the forums. So going this way would mean that the devs will bite the bullet and just ignore the criticism. And I am affraid the devs are not quite eager or ready to do it yet.