DLC Dungeons, Group finder and motif farming - an assortment of my tthoughts

Nurable · January 2020

All of these have been mentioned before and it's maintenance so I thought I'd add to them.

DLC Dungeons in Random Group Finder
So many players enjoy doiing the "easy" dungeons because it doesn't require a lot of efffort. And a lot of people just don't care about parsing huge DPS. They enjoy taking it easy and playing the game at a casual level. That being the case, can ZOS remove the DLC dungeons from the random group finder please. They can always add another two options that include the DLC dungeons. It shouldn't have better rewards, but allows casual players to enjoy the dungeons and hardcore ones to experience the challenge.

The reason I ask for this is because, as a main healer and a alt tank, I am so frustrated with joining the random groups and then having people constantly quit because we got SCP or BRF. Or, we start, the casual players don't understand the mechanics and don't really care for them. We're stuck in there for an hour, people start kicking people and everyone leaves feeling annoyed and frustrated.

It's simple: There is a clear difficulty difference between the base game dungeons and the DLC dungeons. So, instead of ftwo options for the Random Group FInder, have four - Random Normal Base, Random Normal inc DLC, Random Vet Base and Random Vet inc DLC. For those looking for a challenge with the xp rewards can choose to do so. Those that aren't, can avoid them, thus not risking the wrath of others. Nobody wants to annoy or make others feel bad.

C'moon ZOS, show a little compassion here.

Trials Group Finder
As a former Guild leader and trials organiser, I want this so bad. Organising trials is so infuriating and boring that I had to eventually take a break from the game. You want to play the game, not stand still spamming chat in Craglorn looking for players. It can, quite literally, take over and hour to form a group.

These trial organisers are doing a lot for your game, and most of them don't enjoy it. Without them, the trials wouldn't be much less frequent and most players wouldn't experience them.

Create a group finder for trials please. Allow group leaders to set the roles that they're looking for and post the requirements. People can join/request joining. That way, we don't have to head to craglorn and hope to get a group.

Trials are a big part of this game. Please, add some polish to it. Don't make it so hard, unejoyable and chore like.

C'moon ZOS, show a little compassion here.

Motif Farming
Urgh, this one. I've been doing the Wrothgar daily delve quest almost every day since the beginning of November on three chars, looking to complete the motif set. I've had three motifs. I do, as a rotation every day, Wrothgar, mages and undaunted daily delve/public dungeon, the two in Gold Coast, Clockwork City, Summerset and Elsweyr. I very very rarely get a motif drop.

With every update bringing new motif sets, this is becming a drowning feeling now.

Could you not increase the drop rate for the older DLC's. That way the newer DLC motifs would still be relatively rare.

I have multiple chars that I'd like to do other stuff with - dungeons, trials, overland content, quests. But at the moment, I'm sucked into daily quests for motif farming. I'm a crafter and a completionist. It's an OCD and I'd like to indulge it.

C'moon ZOS, show a little compassion here.

Alienoutlaw · January 2020

DLC Dungeons in Random Group Finder

DLC dungeons on Normal are not hard, can be taxing yes but not hard, there have been already many threads on the LFG system and group make up, i myself suggested a MMR type system for Vet grouping.

Trials Group Finder

Agreed this would be a huge leap forward for the casual player, although standing in craglorn works just as well

Motif Farming

this should be addressed for sure, Motifs or a large part of alot of players enjoyment and drop rates should be increased

AlnilamE · January 2020

The only real difference between normal DLCs and normal base dungeons is that people haven't run the DLCs a million times.

COA II, CoH II, Banished Cells II and Spindle II used to be "hard" dungeons, until we learned the mechanics. The DLC dungeons are the same. They don't one-shot you in normal unless you are a glass cannon who forgot to eat food.

People just need to get over their fear of them.

Trials finder: Sure. But you'll have to take the game's role composition for it, so if they say 2 Tanks, 2 Healers and 8 DPS, that's what you will end up with.

essi2 · January 2020

Group Finder

There should be a CP160 requirement for nDLC, not because you can't do it at lvl45. But because most people are not able to.
I often leave if I get matched with <CP100 players, especially lvl 45-49 players. Odds are you'll be in there all day and get nowhere.

I'm not going to spend alot of energy trying to complete Scalecaller f.ex. with a tank and a healer who spend most of their time dead.

There should be a option to not random into DLC dungeons.

Nurable · January 2020

AlnilamE wrote: »

The only real difference between normal DLCs and normal base dungeons is that people haven't run the DLCs a million times.

COA II, CoH II, Banished Cells II and Spindle II used to be "hard" dungeons, until we learned the mechanics. The DLC dungeons are the same. They don't one-shot you in normal unless you are a glass cannon who forgot to eat food.

In the base game normal mode dungeons, there is no boss that can one shot you in a traditional way. The DLC's each have at least one boss that can one shot and have multiple mechanics.

CoA: The only boss with a mechanic is the titan. But, keep damaging boss and you're good.

CoH II: The only boss with a mechanic and one shot is the one before Nerieneth. People just don't understand it, but still get it done.

I could go on, but that's not the point. Yeah, the normal versions are easy for people who have setup to do damage and understand mechanics. But there are a lot of people that just don't care. I don't want to denigrate them or get angry, frustrated with them. They're playing a game. We should be allowed to play it how we like. A lot of people just can't be bothered or don't want to start working on the DPS. They just want to have fun killing stuff.

Look, I'm gunning for every dungeon and trials achievement in this game. But that isn't the same for everyone else. If someone wants to take it easy and just have casual fun, then they should be allowed.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO · January 2020

AlnilamE wrote: »

...
The DLC dungeons are the same. They don't one-shot you in normal unless you are a glass cannon who forgot to eat food.
People just need to get over their fear of them.

Well, even some of the strong mobs (one-dot health bars) can actually one-shot you in normal DLC dungeons. My "leech-tank" sorc with 28k HP, easily enough to tank a normal base dungeon but too fragile to handle most vet dungeons, can be one-shot through block by a direct heavy hit from a minotaur in normal Falkreath Hold, just to give one example. I would say most normal DLC dungeons are on par with veteran base game dungeons in terms of damage and difficulty, and they really shouldn't be lumped together as equivalent in the "daily random" pick.

There is some unmotivated fear of these DLC dungeons, I agree, but they do present a challenge that is definitely too much for a lot of the less experienced players. Additionally, some of them take considerably longer to complete than the base game dungeons, because they are so large. It's often a lot less time consuming to just quit and wait for the penalty cool-down, hoping for an easier run in the next random roll. I don't do that, but I don't really blame those who do.

Edziu · January 2020

mostly yeah

fod dung group finder on normal mode it doesnt matter that much, dlc dungs are still easy but a bit longer and still it is additional chance for skillpoiint by doing 1st time this dlc dung from random while lvling new char

vet for vet random dung..yes, they could split dlc dungs from basic..how often I see someone leaving this dlc dung because he got it as random and I will also say I myslef have left many times random dung because it was dlc and I had no willings for this..especially seeing dd is specially low so I had even less willing to stay in this random DLC dung group

and for trial finder....ohh how it would be beautifull tool, atlast for normal trials
how often I want to run normal trials just for weakly coffers on mora than single character and yet Im stuck to stay on craglorn wasting time half-afking waiting for group or people to start, to run just any trial and then specific...
instead I could que to trial finder and go to literally every other zone minding my own busines while waiting for finder to pop trial for which I marked for queue

Nurable · January 2020

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

...
...I would say most normal DLC dungeons are on par with veteran base game dungeons in terms of damage and difficulty, and they really shouldn't be lumped together as equivalent in the "daily random" pick.

I completely agree with this. I'd go as far as saying I can get through a vet spindle II easier than a normal bloodroot or Moonhunter.

Bradyfjord · January 2020

Group Finder needs a method of categorizing content so that newer players can understand what skill level they need.

Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced might be useful labels for such a system. And it could be used for both normal and veteran difficulties.

Alienoutlaw · January 2020

some DLC dungeons have a min requirement of 300cp

JanTanhide · January 2020

Good post. Agree with you about the Group Finder. Should be an opt out for those not wanting a DLC possible as a random. I myself don't mind. I enjoy the DLC dungeons but I hear ya.

Trials Group Finder: Yes, agree here too. More than likely the PUG Trial group would have a hard time doing Trials but hey, at least there is an option for it and if it worked like the dungeon Group Finder when someone left group a replacement could be an option as in Group Finder.

Motifs: Ok, I was doing the same as you trying to get all the Motifs. Just....don't...do...it. It really is frustrating trying to keep up with ZOS and their Motif machine and the hundreds of furniture and provisioning recipes. It will burn you out and frustrate you to no end. Suggest doing other things in the game and not worry about completing the Motif categories.

If you really want to finish a certain Motif collection they shouldn't be too costly in Guild Stores.

And Good Morning! Hope your day is going well!

Darkenarlol · January 2020

dungeons:

i think i don't want to see low skill guys in my dlc runs in the same

way that they don't want to have dlc as their randoms so why not

trials:

i think it may be usefull too and at least gonna allow me to do something

while waiting in queue instead of jumping in circles in belkarth... so "yes" again

motifs:

no thank you

don't touch my source of gold income

(they'll kill the market with annywersary drop again anyway)

Nurable · January 2020

Bradyfjord wrote: »

Group Finder needs a method of categorizing content so that newer players can understand what skill level they need.

Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced might be useful labels for such a system. And it could be used for both normal and veteran difficulties.

I think ZOS just need to add polish to the group finder. It's very basic and doesn't work. All games outside of single player have some kind of grouping tool. ESO has been out 6 years. They should really have a solid and well rounded grouping tool.

Allow people to specify their group composition. Set minimum CP. Even have a tutorial mode where experienced players can take new players through difficult content; you can reward the experienced players with legendary mats, motifs, gold or something else motivational.

Edziu · January 2020

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

some DLC dungeons have a min requirement of 300cp

even cp doesnt matter tha much..how often I got to team 1000+ which was doing 3x lower dps than 400cp guy

as @Bradyfjord wrote, it would be better idea with begginer, advanced etc categories in finder rather minimum cp....as even someone with more exp or jsut on new account with low cp will do much much better than someone beggining at cap cp

JTD · January 2020

I'll pitch in my 2cents.

Dlc and non-dlc dungeons are wildly different in their mechanics. One has very few and the other is stuffed to the brink with mechanics. My problem doesn't lie with not understanding but with the lack of 'need for mechanics' in the normal versions. The game does not prepare you for the harder content. For a lot of players its just like running into a brick wall. And I hit that wall but managed to get over it by finding players who wanted to improve as i wanted. The game just does not make this feel natural at all.

The game could use a group finder (not instant) like WoW does.. where you can list your group and set requirements and write a note in. The creator of that group than has the control to invite or not to invite. It works there for normal/heroic and mythic raid content so why not here? Doesn't sound unreasonable at all.

Motifs... the point is not to farm all the motifs but just farm an use the guild traders to sell stuff you don't need and buy the stuff you do need. You do not have to farm all the specific motif by yourself. You can buy the missing ones.... though i agree drop rates might be increase on older content or some sort of vendor where you can trade Xnumber of one for 1 of the one you need (of the same motif).

wiiii first forum post since 2014.

Nurable · January 2020

JanTanhide wrote: »

Motifs: Ok, I was doing the same as you trying to get all the Motifs. Just....don't...do...it. It really is frustrating trying to keep up with ZOS and their Motif machine and the hundreds of furniture and provisioning recipes. It will burn you out and frustrate you to no end. Suggest doing other things in the game and not worry about completing the Motif categories.

If you really want to finish a certain Motif collection they shouldn't be too costly in Guild Stores.

You're completely right. I used to play on xbox for four years and burned outt from motif farming and the politics of organising regular trials. However, I'm a crafter by nature so the motifs are a big pull for me, especially if I want those master writs. The gold rewards from motif farming (when you don't get a motif) are so bad, that I just don't earn enough gold to buy the motifs from guild stores. It's a frustrating situation that is easily resolvable.

redlink1979 · January 2020

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

All of these have been mentioned before and it's maintenance so I thought I'd add to them.

DLC Dungeons in Random Group Finder
So many players enjoy doiing the "easy" dungeons because it doesn't require a lot of efffort. And a lot of people just don't care about parsing huge DPS. They enjoy taking it easy and playing the game at a casual level. That being the case, can ZOS remove the DLC dungeons from the random group finder please. They can always add another two options that include the DLC dungeons. It shouldn't have better rewards, but allows casual players to enjoy the dungeons and hardcore ones to experience the challenge.

The reason I ask for this is because, as a main healer and a alt tank, I am so frustrated with joining the random groups and then having people constantly quit because we got SCP or BRF. Or, we start, the casual players don't understand the mechanics and don't really care for them. We're stuck in there for an hour, people start kicking people and everyone leaves feeling annoyed and frustrated.

It's simple: There is a clear difficulty difference between the base game dungeons and the DLC dungeons. So, instead of ftwo options for the Random Group FInder, have four - Random Normal Base, Random Normal inc DLC, Random Vet Base and Random Vet inc DLC. For those looking for a challenge with the xp rewards can choose to do so. Those that aren't, can avoid them, thus not risking the wrath of others. Nobody wants to annoy or make others feel bad.

C'moon ZOS, show a little compassion here.

Trials Group Finder
As a former Guild leader and trials organiser, I want this so bad. Organising trials is so infuriating and boring that I had to eventually take a break from the game. You want to play the game, not stand still spamming chat in Craglorn looking for players. It can, quite literally, take over and hour to form a group.

These trial organisers are doing a lot for your game, and most of them don't enjoy it. Without them, the trials wouldn't be much less frequent and most players wouldn't experience them.

Create a group finder for trials please. Allow group leaders to set the roles that they're looking for and post the requirements. People can join/request joining. That way, we don't have to head to craglorn and hope to get a group.

Trials are a big part of this game. Please, add some polish to it. Don't make it so hard, unejoyable and chore like.

C'moon ZOS, show a little compassion here.

Motif Farming
Urgh, this one. I've been doing the Wrothgar daily delve quest almost every day since the beginning of November on three chars, looking to complete the motif set. I've had three motifs. I do, as a rotation every day, Wrothgar, mages and undaunted daily delve/public dungeon, the two in Gold Coast, Clockwork City, Summerset and Elsweyr. I very very rarely get a motif drop.

With every update bringing new motif sets, this is becming a drowning feeling now.

Could you not increase the drop rate for the older DLC's. That way the newer DLC motifs would still be relatively rare.

I have multiple chars that I'd like to do other stuff with - dungeons, trials, overland content, quests. But at the moment, I'm sucked into daily quests for motif farming. I'm a crafter and a completionist. It's an OCD and I'd like to indulge it.

C'moon ZOS, show a little compassion here.

1 - GF is fine as it is: players need learn mechs in normal mode regardless if dungeon is from base game or dlc, that's why normal mode exists. Don't like how others behave n refuse to listen in vc? Kick them of the group.
2 - Group finder for trials? No, please no. Or do you really want to be grouped with players who fake roles and/or who don't have enough dps or don't even know mechs?! Group finder for dungeons should have taught you something so far...
3 - Increase drop rate? No, if they increase the drop ratio for these they need to increase them all. It seems to me that you need to play/farm more/longer or you need to visit traders more often, those motifs are around long enough not to be expensive atm.

Nurable · January 2020

Edziu wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

some DLC dungeons have a min requirement of 300cp

even cp doesnt matter tha much..how often I got to team 1000+ which was doing 3x lower dps than 400cp guy

CP means nothing for the most part. I am >CP500 and hit over 50% damage on bosses most of the time. That's not because I'm amazing at pressing buttons on my keyboard and mouse, but because I've got a lot of experience on this game (810 on xbox and >500 on PC).

LadyNalcarya · January 2020

I like your trial finder suggestion. There were numerous threads on this, but the way you describe it is the only way it could realistically work. Lobby system could also work for dungeons, especially if we're talking about dlc hardmodes.

zvavi · January 2020

Ok. So. To be fair, i think the dps checks in late dungeons (vLoM+vDoM) are too harsh. And not because they are really harsh, but because they are harsh on tanks and heals that random queue for it. If dds are no good, it is no good. And no time in there of "learning mechanics" will help that.

Nurable · January 2020

redlink1979 wrote: »

1 - GF is fine as it is: players need learn mechs in normal mode regardless if dungeon is from base game or dlc, that's why normal mode exists. Don't like how others behave n refuse to listen in vc? Kick them of the group.
2 - Group finder for trials? No, please no. Or do you really want to be grouped with players who fake roles and/or who don't have enough dps or don't even know mechs?! Group finder for dungeons should have taught you something so far...
3 - Increase drop rate? No, if they increase the drop ratio for these they need to increase them all. It seems to me that you need to play/farm more/longer or you need to visit traders more often, those motifs are around long enough not to be expensive atm.

There is always one contrarian, for the same of it. Okay, one by one.

1 - The "if you don't like them, kick them" is the point of my first point. It shouldn't be a toxic environment. This wouldn't effect your game at all. In fact, you'd kick less people, so would probably enjoy it more. Unless you get joy from kicking people.
2 - Just don't use it then. Blimey, if that's your fear of it, then don't use it. But so many want it. Why argue something that wouldn't effect you one iota?
3 - Won't argue that. There are some that want rare drop rates for market trading. I understand that.

Nurable · January 2020

redlink1979 wrote: »

1 - GF is fine as it is: players need learn mechs in normal mode regardless if dungeon is from base game or dlc...

Additionally, players don't need to learn the mechs. if they want to, great. If they don't, then they won't. Just because you play something one way isn't how everyone does or should play it.

Kerendar_II · January 2020

yeah on the seperate group finder.
First time I dried random normal (level 45-ish?) I landed in Bloodrootforge. Just died and didnt do any damage. I was pretty much just playing single player TES then. Didnt do any dungeon for probably nine months untill some event "forced" me into it.
Landed in Wayrest I and laughed my ass off...

Or in other words: Not having ESO Plus has one huge advantage: You never get queued into a dlc dungeon

Nurable · January 2020

Darkenarlol wrote: »

dungeons:

i think i don't want to see low skill guys in my dlc runs in the same

way that they don't want to have dlc as their randoms so why not

trials:

i think it may be usefull too and at least gonna allow me to do something

while waiting in queue instead of jumping in circles in belkarth... so "yes" again

motifs:

no thank you

don't touch my source of gold income

(they'll kill the market with annywersary drop again anyway)

Yup, I run in circles in Belkarth too. It's my least favourite thing to do..

Re. the motifs. Fair enough, I understand your argument. However, it would be good to compromise and get a token if you don't get the motif. You then save up 10 and hand in for a specific motif. That way, dedicated motif farmers are rewarded and your market will remain as it is.

Edziu · January 2020

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

some DLC dungeons have a min requirement of 300cp

even cp doesnt matter tha much..how often I got to team 1000+ which was doing 3x lower dps than 400cp guy

CP means nothing for the most part. I am >CP500 and hit over 50% damage on bosses most of the time. That's not because I'm amazing at pressing buttons on my keyboard and mouse, but because I've got a lot of experience on this game (810 on xbox and >500 on PC).

thats what I was saying
I was also often grouped with other randoms at cap cp and yet I was doing 75%+ of group dps...
or on NA server Im close to get 500cp with blue gear, only weapon golded and also how often without problem I have 50% group dps when grouped with also cap cp 2nd dd

so cp limits for dlc dung are for nothing

so again..as @Bradyfjord in #9 comment wrote it would be much better to categorize content in group finder for begginers, advanced, exp etc

Nurable · January 2020

Kerendar_II wrote: »

Or in other words: Not having ESO Plus has one huge advantage: You never get queued into a dlc dungeon

So true. Only ZOS could find a good reason not to subscribe!!

Nurable · January 2020

Kerendar_II wrote: »

yeah on the seperate group finder.
First time I dried random normal (level 45-ish?) I landed in Bloodrootforge. Just died and didnt do any damage. I was pretty much just playing single player TES then. Didnt do any dungeon for probably nine months untill some event "forced" me into it.
Landed in Wayrest I and laughed my ass off...

Or in other words: Not having ESO Plus has one huge advantage: You never get queued into a dlc dungeon

Here you go ZOS, case in point. By throwing new players into unexplained, tricky content is a put off.

LadyNalcarya · January 2020

Edziu wrote: »

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

some DLC dungeons have a min requirement of 300cp

even cp doesnt matter tha much..how often I got to team 1000+ which was doing 3x lower dps than 400cp guy

CP means nothing for the most part. I am >CP500 and hit over 50% damage on bosses most of the time. That's not because I'm amazing at pressing buttons on my keyboard and mouse, but because I've got a lot of experience on this game (810 on xbox and >500 on PC).

thats what I was saying
I was also often grouped with other randoms at cap cp and yet I was doing 75%+ of group dps...
or on NA server Im close to get 500cp with blue gear, only weapon golded and also how often without problem I have 50% group dps when grouped with also cap cp 2nd dd

so cp limits for dlc dung are for nothing

so again..as @Bradyfjord in #9 comment wrote it would be much better to categorize content in group finder for begginers, advanced, exp etc

Yeah cp limits are pointless, there's so many exp events, people grind non-stop and some are buying already leveled accounts.

FierceSam · January 2020

Dungeon finder DLC opt-out

Make it happen ZOS. It would benefit everyone. Using ESO subscribers to fill out dungeons they don’t want to do and haven’t got the skills for is not benefiting anyone. Let the players choose the level of risk they want to take. ZOS won’t do it because if they did, they’d never fill the queues for players who want to do the DLC. They could ameliorate the harshness of the DLC content by providing players with some kind of repeatable active tutorials, reminding them of the skills they need and the trigger events that they might recognise. Again won’t happen, sadly.

Trials group finder

No. They can’t build a normal dungeon finder that works without killing the game. They can’t build a BG group finder that regularly assigns equal numbers of players to 3 teams. They clearly haven’t the skills to do this. Additionally, it would not help. It takes an hour to fill a trials group because it takes that long to find people who want to do the trial unless you’re organising one in advance. Additionally it should be up to the trial leaders to choose who comes on their trials. They want 60k dps, that should be their call as they are leading the trial. At some point players have to take responsibility for themselves and stop expecting ZOS to be their mummy. You want help in organising it, try Raid Planner - it’s online so it works on all platforms.

Motifs

ZOS kind of do this by recycling motifs during the Anniversary festival. But as long as motifs provide such a successful driver through repeat content and sell for £25 on the Crown Store, ZOS are unlikely to modify their practices. But I like the idea of increasing the drop rate of old motifs and/or supplementing them with new ones.