Don't play PVP.

HalvarIronfist · January 2020

kingsforged wrote: »

If you're new or new-ish player, just don't play PVP. ESPECIALLY below Level 50.

Absolutely ZERO thought or effort has gone into maintaining ANY kind of balance in any of the PVP game modes. Below level 50 being some of the absolute worst of it. If you can't craft top-tier gear, buffs and potions (which can take months to research enough traits to do) and pay to unlock the extra skill lines (maxed out using a high level main) using Crowns, you have absolutely NO chance of competing AT ALL.

It's not a question of skill or class. It's not a question of builds. You can't "git gud". It's a pure "craft and pay to win" game and there's nothing you can do about it.

If you're looking for a PVP game to jump into. This isn't it. Don't waste your time or your money.

Really? Not skill or Class? Not a question of builds? You can't "git gud"?

We all started somewhere. If you want to pvp, whining about what metas/other players do isn't going to make you improve. Even BG reward/ap bought gear is more than enough to make you do decently in under 50.

I level some of my characters through under 50, and use training gear, and still do just fine even with a lack of skills if they're not high enough level. Undoubtedly, and I have ran into the issue of people buying skill lines. If they keep the character, and it goes on to serve some purpose. Okay, they have all the right to do so. If they just delete the toon and rebuy it for under 50 PVP? What a tool, lol.

(I've seen less of the skill line buyers, 30$ is just not worth a few hours of grinding! FG/MG wise. Psijic is a eh.)

As for crafting gear, its pretty cheap to even make purples (Exception of jewels.). If you can't do it, just join a guild and contact a crafter. Most won't charge you any exorbitant fees, but until you're mechanically inclined enough in PVP, sets are nothing more than a crutch. If you don't maximize the use of your sets through your gameplay, then it doesnt matter if you have gear crafted or you wear rewarded gear.

For a PVE example, take VMA. I will openly admit, when I started it for the first time, I cried foul, unfair. You know what? I just had to improve. Whining didn't fix anything. Take your time, have fun, learn the ropes, because under 50s are easy mode for any regular player, sometimes I just roll them to level alts or AP farm on op builds. (Try under 50 as a stamsorc werewolf.)

Ultimately, i don't think there's any issue here as a person who also had to learn from the ground up. Sure there's a few unfair things, but no game in existence is ever perfectly balanced. (Speaking of live service games, at least.) It sounds like you just need to pony up the time and effort to learn to PVP.

kingsforged wrote: »

Andddd here's the problem with everything you've all said... I'm NOT the one having the issues. It's the people I'm being grouped with every game where only 2-3 players out of 12 are racking up 10-30 kills, and these poor, new, average players are lucky to score a SINGLE kill. They complain in group chat, I tell them how it is (as per my OP) and they quit.

These are GAME DESIGN ISSUES that need looking at, because these are the issues that kill playerbases, and queues are already absolute trash.

For anyone saying "I'm just using this and blah blah" just wait. Come back when you've run into a 4 stack using Psijic skill lines in a pre-50 BG and tell me how it went for you when you couldn't even drop them below 75%.

If you're doing well with "just reward bag gear" then you just haven't been playing it long enough to get matched up.

Well.. Apparently you're the one having issues if you're coming here to post about it. Either group up or learn to expect less from randoms. Even in high MMR I don't see 4 stacks running Psijic. If you see that, they're more than likely guildies/friends, and they're making a 4 man group purposely to stomp on randoms.

If you're doing well with reward bag gear in under 50.. you may have decent mechanical skill, because believe it or not; stats do scale in under 50. Meaning even a level 12 with decent reward gear can hold their own and do well. From the attitude of your posts, I'm going to assume that you're solo queuing into bad groups. It happens. You can't carry every match alone. (Assuming that you're carrying at all.)

and finally: This really speaks the situation.

Stebarnz wrote: »

OP decides one day to take up boxing, so they go to the local boxing gym and put some gloves on and jumps in the ring with guys who have been there years.
After taking a royal whooping OP goes onto the boxing forums and tells people not to waste their time with boxing as its full of people who are good and have good equipment.

MartiniDaniels · January 2020

Well, below 50 BG MMR should be account locked, not character locked. Anytime I level new toon with daily random BG XP it just feels bad. Of course there are other experienced players... but majority simply doesn't have any healing slotted - they just die to 2-3 spammables. It's no fun, and it's no fair. No wonder new players are scared of PVP after such first BG experiences...
I remember when I first time went to Cyro after those BGs (when I was newbie)... I used NB build for permacloak and was running in permacloak half map to get those Cyro-exclusive mage guild books.
Build has huge impact for PVP. Like HUGE. And game provides ZERO insight of how to build for PVP. At the very least there should be huge notification with "7 PIECES OF IMPEN HIGHLY RECOMMENDED" before you queue first time anywhere in PVP.

Mr_Walker · January 2020

regime211 wrote: »

RefLiberty wrote: »

PvP needs to be canceled and resources put in good use instead of wasting in that group of 5% players being not useful to game or anyone.
ESO is sold based on PVE legacy anyway.
As someone said, they need to be contained in that map of theirs, with no influence on game whatsoever.
Game has been broken so many times by trying to balance that game "mod", su much waste.
So much money being wasted on pvp, so much nerfs/buffs, so much work hours.
If there is no pvp Eso, could have funded a space force program or at least ESO 2 engine.
So much resources.
Make PvP secondary feature, Make ESO great again.

Elder scrolls online was made due to pvp not just pve. So cut the complaining because pvp will never go away.

Wrong. So, so wrong. It was made to capitalise on the popularity of the ES brand. You know, with Skyrim being one of the highest grossing games of all time.

I don't know how much more wrong you could be, but not much more. Certainly not without concerted effort.

Mudcrabjedi · January 2020

So, i mainly PvP at this point, but I do quite enjoy PvE. While I ABSOLUTELY do not agree with most of what you posted, I do agree that saving PvP until you are familiar with basic game mechanics is a good idea.

Truth is, you're wrong. This game does take skill and a lot more than just slapping on the gear that Alcast told you to use. Ive dropped literally MILLIONS of gold on the best gear before to no avail.

There is rotation in PvP, just as there is in PvE. It's a whole different gameplay style and someone who jumps straight in to the game may not be ready for it (with exceptions obviously).

As far as balance goes, look we can all sit here all day long and tell you something bad about PvP. For instance, sorc and magplar are broken ASF (sorry...its true lol) and magblade STILL doesn't have a burst heal, but that doesnt mean its not worth playing or that zero effort is put in to it. You say to yourself, "self, sorc amd magplar are broken ASF...so I'm gonna create one of each and learn their weaknesses."

And to grt back on the gear subject, yes it can take MONTHS to craft some of the best gear, but that's what guilds are for. Back in my day, we didnt have a fancy "Guild finder", but guess what, we do now and there are SO many cool guilds out there that will HOOK YOU UP on some gear.

We veterans players are out here to help and whilr yes, we may complain about some bad parts of both PvP and PvE, i for one will NEVER discourage someone from jumping in to a good game of BGs.

Also, git gud..

Nah, I'm joking bro😂

Mr_Walker · January 2020

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

PvP below max level is a complete crapshoot in EVERY ONLINE GAME EVER. ESO is not new in this regard. Expecting the dev's to balance the game around the bracket where people spend the least amount of time is just dumb.

Additionally, under 50 pvp is a mess of recycled characters, with folk creating new characters and wearing all their golded out farmed sets.

Banana · January 2020

[Deleted User] · January 2020

Hello there,

Recently we've had to remove several posts for baiting and flaming, content that is against the Forum Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid thread derailment.

Thank you for understanding.

Aptonoth · January 2020

kingsforged wrote: »

If you're new or new-ish player, just don't play PVP. ESPECIALLY below Level 50.

Absolutely ZERO thought or effort has gone into maintaining ANY kind of balance in any of the PVP game modes. Below level 50 being some of the absolute worst of it. If you can't craft top-tier gear, buffs and potions (which can take months to research enough traits to do) and pay to unlock the extra skill lines (maxed out using a high level main) using Crowns, you have absolutely NO chance of competing AT ALL.

It's not a question of skill or class. It's not a question of builds. You can't "git gud". It's a pure "craft and pay to win" game and there's nothing you can do about it.

If you're looking for a PVP game to jump into. This isn't it. Don't waste your time or your money.

Pvp servers so broken and bad I never in a million years recommend playing pvp at any level. Faster it’s removed the better. Pvp has to go so the team can focus on pve.

KillsAllElves · January 2020

RefLiberty wrote: »

PvP needs to be canceled and resources put in good use instead of wasting in that group of 5% players being not useful to game or anyone.
ESO is sold based on PVE legacy anyway.
As someone said, they need to be contained in that map of theirs, with no influence on game whatsoever.
Game has been broken so many times by trying to balance that game "mod", su much waste.
So much money being wasted on pvp, so much nerfs/buffs, so much work hours.
If there is no pvp Eso, could have funded a space force program or at least ESO 2 engine.
So much resources.
Make PvP secondary feature, Make ESO great again.

Im going to easily dismantle this ridiculous comment you made.

Pvp and trials are end game activities. You like every one else are not forced into playing pvp. Not every one wants to play reskinned go fetch me quests.

FACT- ZO$ pours far more resources, time and money into pve content than they do cyrodiil!!! pvp got 1 dlc in 2015 which is a pvevpvp small zone albeit part of ES lore. It is 2020 and cyrodiil remains void of additional content excluding volendrung and some jewelry.

Your comment shows how will fully ignorant to reality you are!

The_Lex · January 2020

We get about a dozen PvE events per year, and we’re lucky if we get maybe 2 PvP events (if they’re not cancelled). Yet when a rare PvP event kicks off, it takes like one day before the PvEers lose their minds on the forums.

Kalixte · January 2020

RefLiberty wrote: »

PvP needs to be canceled and resources put in good use instead of wasting in that group of 5% players being not useful to game or anyone.
ESO is sold based on PVE legacy anyway.
As someone said, they need to be contained in that map of theirs, with no influence on game whatsoever.
Game has been broken so many times by trying to balance that game "mod", su much waste.
So much money being wasted on pvp, so much nerfs/buffs, so much work hours.
If there is no pvp Eso, could have funded a space force program or at least ESO 2 engine.
So much resources.
Make PvP secondary feature, Make ESO great again.

*refrainingmyselffrominsulting*
Cough cough. Hmm, yeah, okay.
Looks like a fascist speech. About a video game. For twice more sadness.

Aptonoth · January 2020

Mudcrabjedi wrote: »

So, i mainly PvP at this point, but I do quite enjoy PvE. While I ABSOLUTELY do not agree with most of what you posted, I do agree that saving PvP until you are familiar with basic game mechanics is a good idea.

Truth is, you're wrong. This game does take skill and a lot more than just slapping on the gear that Alcast told you to use. Ive dropped literally MILLIONS of gold on the best gear before to no avail.

There is rotation in PvP, just as there is in PvE. It's a whole different gameplay style and someone who jumps straight in to the game may not be ready for it (with exceptions obviously).

As far as balance goes, look we can all sit here all day long and tell you something bad about PvP. For instance, sorc and magplar are broken ASF (sorry...its true lol) and magblade STILL doesn't have a burst heal, but that doesnt mean its not worth playing or that zero effort is put in to it. You say to yourself, "self, sorc amd magplar are broken ASF...so I'm gonna create one of each and learn their weaknesses."

And to grt back on the gear subject, yes it can take MONTHS to craft some of the best gear, but that's what guilds are for. Back in my day, we didnt have a fancy "Guild finder", but guess what, we do now and there are SO many cool guilds out there that will HOOK YOU UP on some gear.

We veterans players are out here to help and whilr yes, we may complain about some bad parts of both PvP and PvE, i for one will NEVER discourage someone from jumping in to a good game of BGs.

Also, git gud..

Nah, I'm joking bro😂

I had a witty response to this but it got deleted by a post rollback.

Cirantille · January 2020

That is somewhat true.

I think only first characters should be allowed in below 50.

Because it is very unfriendly and frankly I do not understand why would anyone bother to play in below 50.

I went there with my alt and it was... absurd

People siege resources there, like they don't even put up a fight because they are NEW.

I felt bad and left. Because clearly we are not at matching levels and this is no FUN.

Not for me.

But some people can not manage to kill PvPers at their levels so they will do that to get somewhat satisfaction.

No way to fight back when you can not craft and poor

But fear not, you'll be able to in about few months and you will flex them in above 50

HalvarIronfist · January 2020

The_Lex wrote: »

We get about a dozen PvE events per year, and we’re lucky if we get maybe 2 PvP events (if they’re not cancelled). Yet when a rare PvP event kicks off, it takes like one day before the PvEers lose their minds on the forums.

Unfortunately this is the truth. PVP players don't complain in near magnitude about PVE events as PVE players complain about PVP events.

I understand that from a perspective where I'm a completionist. I do endgame PVE, I do PVP, I do, well.. Everything. It always amuses me how every time there's a PVP event the level of whining goes through the roof. It's much like PVE; you either need to improve, or try something else that suits you better.

The best example of this is the PVE players flooding cyrodiil for town quests, and while you.( a PVP player/build) are trying to do the same, they attack you (Often unprovoked in many of my cases), but whine via whispers when you kill them.

*Le Me doing quest/checking quest, opening reward boxes. Gets jumped by player*

"I'm just trying to quest, leave me alone!"

"You attacked me.."

"SO? I just want to do my quests!"

Very literal conversation I've had multiple times in the past during a PVP event.

JumpmanLane · January 2020

MusCanus wrote: »

I jumped into pvp at around lvl 30. On my first toon, with no high lvl alts or any in-game friends. Sucked at first but after a few dozens of BG matches started doing 20+ kills to a couple of deaths regularly. Maybe that's because I was trying to improve

[Edit to remove bait]

I jumped into full cp 30 day campaign at level 10, soon as I got the invite, with 3 pieces of Twin Sisters jewelry on and that’s it.

I thought it was just the next part of the game. I didn’t have any friends or anybody to tell me otherwise, then. I stuck around. Who knew.

Of course I died a lot. Of course I wasn’t very good at it. Yet, I was new to the game. I kept playing. PvP isn’t bad. The learning curve is steep and there are few guideposts; but, folks will help you out. Play it and learn it and get better.

Anhedonie · January 2020

I mean there are pvp focused games that have much better gameplay if you want to play it competitive.
But if you just want to have some fun and don't mind dying (death in pvp is meaningless btw), then why not?

Rave the Histborn · January 2020

RefLiberty wrote: »

PvP needs to be canceled and resources put in good use instead of wasting in that group of 5% players being not useful to game or anyone.
ESO is sold based on PVE legacy anyway.
As someone said, they need to be contained in that map of theirs, with no influence on game whatsoever.
Game has been broken so many times by trying to balance that game "mod", su much waste.
So much money being wasted on pvp, so much nerfs/buffs, so much work hours.
If there is no pvp Eso, could have funded a space force program or at least ESO 2 engine.
So much resources.
Make PvP secondary feature, Make ESO great again.

"But but ZOS what do you mean I have to learn a rotation? I just want to heavy attack through the whole game. This game is based on a (solo)PVE legacy! Why are there multiplayer elements in my MMO?????? What do you mean you're changing how block works! I should be able to block through the entire game!!!"

What would you do if they really did separate out PVP? Who would you blame then after you realize all those nerfs would still come your way? Are you going to finally learn to adapt and play?

Anotherone773 · January 2020

The pvp in this game IS pretty bad, but it is not pay to win. PVP is all about meta gaming and FOTM builds and using the latest "balance" changes to your advantage. Since ZOS version of balance is to bounce between extreme points, that means you have to rewrite your playbook pretty much every patch. And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Florial · January 2020

I think that new players SHOULD jump into PvP and give it a try. I was a purely PvE player and dreaded having anything to do in the PvP realms. Getting my master angler title was horribly scary for me and I remember picking the least populated campaign, stealthing across the entire map and trying to avoid any PvP at all. Imperial City wasn't even a possibility for me.

A midyear mayhem event or two ago, I actually decided to get some achievements and started following a DC zerg group around whilst healing. I got invited to the group after a bit. Then my gaming buddy convinced me to give it more of a try and run with my current wonderful guild (Innocents Abroad). I really started having fun. Now I belong to two PvP guilds and am working on my Warlord title. I think I PvP more at this point than PvE. At first I had numerous deaths until I made myself some gear, set my character to be a team healer and learn the ins and outs of PvP. Even though I'm not the best PvPer, I'm a good team member and have quite a bit of fun.

My only wish is for improvements to the horrid issues in Cyrodiil. Nothing more frustrating to be in the midst of a keep battle and crash mid fight. And the lag is horrendous. I think that with PvP you need to have an open mind. Also finding a great group is key in my opinion.

Rave the Histborn · January 2020

kingsforged wrote: »

Andddd here's the problem with everything you've all said... I'm NOT the one having the issues. It's the people I'm being grouped with every game where only 2-3 players out of 12 are racking up 10-30 kills, and these poor, new, average players are lucky to score a SINGLE kill. They complain in group chat, I tell them how it is (as per my OP) and they quit.

These are GAME DESIGN ISSUES that need looking at, because these are the issues that kill playerbases, and queues are already absolute trash.

For anyone saying "I'm just using this and blah blah" just wait. Come back when you've run into a 4 stack using Psijic skill lines in a pre-50 BG and tell me how it went for you when you couldn't even drop them below 75%.

If you're doing well with "just reward bag gear" then you just haven't been playing it long enough to get matched up.

So wait, you're saying these issues kill the playerbase, but you're telling people in BG matches that they'll never get good, never win, etc. and they quit. No wonder you think it's a game design flaw that isn't getting fixed but let me diagnose it. The problem is you.

"For anyone saying "I'm just using this and blah blah" just wait. Come back when you've run into a 4 stack using Psijic skill lines in a pre-50 BG and tell me how it went for you when you couldn't even drop them below 75%. "

Premades can be beaten, not by you, but by players that encourage their team and focus objectives. It's really not that bad.

"If you're doing well with "just reward bag gear" then you just haven't been playing it long enough to get matched up."

Don't mean to call out your PVP experience here chief but you might wanna play more than a few BGs before you start making these posts.

Fur_like_snow · January 2020

I had a blast in sub 50 when I first started playing. Maybe PvP isn’t for you try some quests in overland that’s prob more up to your speed OP.

brandonv516 · January 2020

RefLiberty wrote: »

PvP needs to be canceled and resources put in good use instead of wasting in that group of 5% players being not useful to game or anyone.
ESO is sold based on PVE legacy anyway.
As someone said, they need to be contained in that map of theirs, with no influence on game whatsoever.
Game has been broken so many times by trying to balance that game "mod", su much waste.
So much money being wasted on pvp, so much nerfs/buffs, so much work hours.
If there is no pvp Eso, could have funded a space force program or at least ESO 2 engine.
So much resources.
Make PvP secondary feature, Make ESO great again.

Arbitrary numbers about PvP population and neglecting to consider the potential amount of money PvP players have shelled into this game make you look simpleminded.

Ask around the PvP community and you'll find many players who have invested heavily into this game (time and money).

I personally have spent more money on ESO in the past several years than I have on buying video games in over a decade.

Spend a little more time in this game and you'll see that it's not always PvP to blame for balance changes.

Synaki · January 2020

Am truly sick and tired to read this toxic drivel peddled by fanatic pve ppl who cannot stand that there is something else than their mindnumbingly boring game mode, whenever we get anything that is remotely fun.
I say that as someone who started out as a pve player.

FrancisCrawford · January 2020

PvP is group warfare. Accept that it will be asymmetric in terms of skill, tools, etc. or don't go.

It IS possible to contribute on a battlefield where you are one of the weaker participants, but of course not everybody finds that fun.

I've only spent a relatively few hours in PvP over the entire life of the game, to unlock skills I might want to use in PvE. I enjoyed that time, but haven't rushed to spend more. YMMV.

MJallday · January 2020

kingsforged wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

As someone whom has got emp twice on <50 chars - you are wrong

Lol. Yes. I'm sure you went in there alone with your random non-set greens and blues you picked up as a new fresh player and just completely dominated... *heavy sarcasm*

Actually I did. Twice.

Admittedly I had 4 years of experience behind me, and a tuned set of level 28 gear but yep , did it on my own. Was pretty easy tbh. Just took time

Wheresthetea11 · January 2020

TLDR: joined during midyear with no pvp experience and no gear. Didn’t fly solo, joined a group and made some amazing friends. And I learned quite a bit. Pvp is a marathon not a foot race. If you don’t enjoy it, that’s totally fine. But it’s good to try. If I can learn how to pvp, someone with 0 mmo experience, you can too.

When I first joined eso, it was midyear mayhem. I had absolutely no mmo experience, I had no combat experience, I truthfully only played the game because I had just fallen in love with Skyrim and it was free on game pass.

When I first went into pvp, I was level 20 and had no gear nor concept of what pvp was.

However, I knew I wouldn’t do [snip] solo so the first thing I did was type lfg and join a rather large group.

I group surfed quite a bit before I met a few players that I genuinely enjoyed being with and we broke off from the zerg to play small scale. Some were re-rollers, some were brand new, some had been playing for awhile but had no pvp experience.

And I had an absolutely blast during midyear under 50. We lost fights. We won fights. I learned a ton from them.

And once I gained cp and got some 160 gear, I stuck to non-cp. I still lacked skill, but I wasn’t getting one-shot like I would have been in cp. After roughly a year, I hit max cp, I watched pvp guides, build videos, dueled anyone I could, even if I had been lower cp, ran lots of pve to understand my class’s capabilities, etc.

And when I went into cp, I learned and am still learning from better players, from people who have been playing for years. I still die, I still get bagged on occasion. But I enjoy it. Pvp is not for everyone, but just like Pve and really any mmo, it’s not a damn sprint. It’s a marathon. You’ve gotta loose in order to win. You’ve gotta learn what combos are strong, what builds are strong, and what aren’t. And in the end, If you don’t enjoy it, stick to pve. But don’t let others discourage you from playing content because they had a bad time.

[Edit for minor profanity]

zaria · January 2020

oxygen_thief wrote: »

theres no victory without defeat. dont pvp if you are a whiny coward because you will die a lot before you get gud and even then you will continue to die since pvp is about dying killing and dying again

This, learning curve in PvP is brutal, its not like you can start out doing fungal 1 and slowly progress up to doing HM DLC dungeons

theyancey · January 2020

The only real solution to the never ending nerf balancing acts will be to fully separate PvP and PvE.

Deathlord92 · January 2020

Times like this it’s get good or get rekt 😂

kingsforged · January 2020

Here's your "balance", and "anyone can do it". Go ahead, try and tell me these people could compete if they "just did this or that"... and I'm not even using a dedicated PVP build, I'm using the 2 best DPS sets I could slap together with 6 trait crafting...

There's HUNDREDS if not thousands of matches like these, where 1-3 players who are fully geared up just slaughter everybody else like it was nothing.

New(er) players CANNOT compete in the current system. And I'm not blaming them, I'm blaming the game design that gives EVERY possible advantage to longer term players to just destroy new ones. Anyone who can't see the obvious flaws here are either exploiting the system to their advantage and trying to cover it up, or in complete and utter denial.

https://imgur.com/a/yUxucw7