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pvp damage is weird
ThePhantomThorn
✭✭✭✭
i dont get damage.
i run 6k wd. a huge amount of pen and a good crit chance in med.
and yet, i do less damage than a player with 3.5kwd 2 years ago.
wtf
i get this is the tank meta, but how did this even happen?
even fighting med 'glass' builds you do little damage.
i run 6k wd. a huge amount of pen and a good crit chance in med.
and yet, i do less damage than a player with 3.5kwd 2 years ago.
wtf
i get this is the tank meta, but how did this even happen?
even fighting med 'glass' builds you do little damage.
0
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Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ThePhantomThorn wrote: »i dont get damage.
i run 6k wd. a huge amount of pen and a good crit chance in med.
and yet, i do less damage than a player with 3.5kwd 2 years ago.
wtf
i get this is the tank meta, but how did this even happen?
even fighting med 'glass' builds you do little damage.
Post your build, people can usually help with more info.
One thing I see a lot of people do is they create a build using the editor with all proc sets without checking the uptime. Almost all builds I’ve seen that say they have high weapon damage and 30k resists or something rarely actually have those stats in practice. It’s more like ‘If everything’s up’ they have those stats, but it rarely happens.Edited by Iskiab on January 23, 2020 2:32AMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten5 -
ThePhantomThorn✭✭✭✭ThePhantomThorn wrote: »i dont get damage.
i run 6k wd. a huge amount of pen and a good crit chance in med.
and yet, i do less damage than a player with 3.5kwd 2 years ago.
wtf
i get this is the tank meta, but how did this even happen?
even fighting med 'glass' builds you do little damage.
Post your build, people can usually help with more info.
One thing I see a lot of people do is they create a build using the editor with all proc sets without checking the uptime. Almost all builds I’ve seen that say they have high weapon damage and 30k resists or something rarely actually have those stats in practice. It’s more like ‘If everything’s up’ they have those stats, but it rarely happens.
this is the maxed out setup.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=205557
but anyways the only procs im including is berserk glyph and clever alch which i try to combo with in pvp anyways.
my point is look at a pvp montage and the build from a few years ago to now and you deal less damage despite everythingEdited by ThePhantomThorn on January 23, 2020 2:39AM0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ThePhantomThorn wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »i dont get damage.
i run 6k wd. a huge amount of pen and a good crit chance in med.
and yet, i do less damage than a player with 3.5kwd 2 years ago.
wtf
i get this is the tank meta, but how did this even happen?
even fighting med 'glass' builds you do little damage.
Post your build, people can usually help with more info.
One thing I see a lot of people do is they create a build using the editor with all proc sets without checking the uptime. Almost all builds I’ve seen that say they have high weapon damage and 30k resists or something rarely actually have those stats in practice. It’s more like ‘If everything’s up’ they have those stats, but it rarely happens.
this is the maxed out setup.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=205557
but anyways the only procs im including is berserk glyph and clever alch which i try to combo with in pvp anyways.
my point is look at a pvp montage and the build from a few years ago to now and you deal less damage despite everything
Yea, IDK. I know NB has been nerfed a lot. Taking away fracture and minor berserk is a lot of lost damage. Add them together and it’s something like 12% damage or around there.
I’m used to mag so not much help. For mag your pen and crit mod would be really low, but your weapon damage is a lot higher then you can get on Mag. Might want to look at tweaking those two stats, but I’m not good with stam.
Bloodspawn also only has a 40% uptime at best, it’s best on builds that are already tanky. I find it next to useless on light armour builds. CPs add tankiness already so it might still be okay.
If you’re counting the weapon damage glyph be sure to refresh it before you use your bow proc. Injection is a great ability against certain classes, as a magplar I know it hurts against me, on my MagWarden I use shimmer which will kill your burst.Edited by Iskiab on January 23, 2020 3:07AMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
jadarock✭✭✭✭✭I had 8k damage a few months back and still felt like I had to work incredibly hard for kills so you can point to the tanky meta.
Major and minor protection overtuned heals throw in a few nb nerfs . That really is it in a nutshell bud0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Main reason is that it is so easy to build tanky vs building for damage. How much more effective damage in your high damage build vs typical tanky build (pariah or buffer of the swift + s&b back bar)? I guess 15% max more.... and now how much more protection tanky build will have? Something like 35k resists + minor protection? way more then 15%...
Let's say average penetration in CP is 15k... then you have 5k resists left... which is 7.5% damage resistance
Now typical tanky guy has 35k resistances... after penetration it's 20k. = 30.3% damage resistance + minor protection = 35.9%. Ok maul negates some of that... but still you are in notable disadvantage from the very beginning even if target doesn't have major protection and/or maim. And with minor maim or major protection those mitigation numbers became sick. Oh and of course there is Mist
Funny enough those fake patch notes were much more reasonable... decreasing effectiveness of maim and major protection was right call... but what zos does? gaves 35k HP healers another 10% block mitigation and nerfs off-balance duration.. which is another minus 10% to damage for 2/3 of time.2 -
BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭None of your stats matter if you don’t know how to use themZerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.8 -
Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just constant nerfs have made damage worse imo. So many damage skills have been nerfed over time.Edited by Crixus8000 on January 23, 2020 12:01PM0 -
CeeJonesy✭✭✭I've seen you a few times on xbox and you don't play aggressively enough in my opinion (no offence meant by that to anyone who plays nb defensively i personally just believe the class thrives when you dont give the target any breathing space). You have the damage but you don't pressure people as much as you could. After saying all of that though there are a few people who are just all out tanks on xbox that can be a nightmare to kill but those players usually give up far too much to be a threat anyway so just move on, they aren't going to be doing much other than holding block and spamming heals anyway.Edited by CeeJonesy on January 23, 2020 2:15PMPC EU | XBOX EU1 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭BaiterOfZergs wrote: »None of your stats matter if you don’t know how to use them
^^ Suggestions the game makes on the death recap.The Tomb of FPS Alteration Magic - Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Praise Malacath.1 -
Jimmy_The_Fixer✭✭✭✭✭ThePhantomThorn wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »i dont get damage.
i run 6k wd. a huge amount of pen and a good crit chance in med.
and yet, i do less damage than a player with 3.5kwd 2 years ago.
wtf
i get this is the tank meta, but how did this even happen?
even fighting med 'glass' builds you do little damage.
Post your build, people can usually help with more info.
One thing I see a lot of people do is they create a build using the editor with all proc sets without checking the uptime. Almost all builds I’ve seen that say they have high weapon damage and 30k resists or something rarely actually have those stats in practice. It’s more like ‘If everything’s up’ they have those stats, but it rarely happens.
this is the maxed out setup.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=205557
but anyways the only procs im including is berserk glyph and clever alch which i try to combo with in pvp anyways.
my point is look at a pvp montage and the build from a few years ago to now and you deal less damage despite everything
You’ve got your attribute points split between HP, Magic, and stam but are using all max stam enchants. You’ll get more total stats if you just use some prismatic glyphs and dump all attribute points into Max stam.1 -
ThePhantomThorn✭✭✭✭I've seen you a few times on xbox and you don't play aggressively enough in my opinion (no offence meant by that to anyone who plays nb defensively i personally just believe the class thrives when you dont give the target any breathing space). You have the damage but you don't pressure people as much as you could. After saying all of that though there are a few people who are just all out tanks on xbox that can be a nightmare to kill but those players usually give up far too much to be a threat anyway so just move on, they aren't going to be doing much other than holding block and spamming heals anyway.
Is this in duels bgs or cyro?
Anyways I’ll play more aggressively from now then0 -
BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭BaiterOfZergs wrote: »None of your stats matter if you don’t know how to use them
^^ Suggestions the game makes on the death recap.
I mean it could potentially save someone 100k plus gold. Should figure out how to play the game or a class before you buy expensive things in general but that’s another story.
Zerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.1 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThePhantomThorn wrote: »I've seen you a few times on xbox and you don't play aggressively enough in my opinion (no offence meant by that to anyone who plays nb defensively i personally just believe the class thrives when you dont give the target any breathing space). You have the damage but you don't pressure people as much as you could. After saying all of that though there are a few people who are just all out tanks on xbox that can be a nightmare to kill but those players usually give up far too much to be a threat anyway so just move on, they aren't going to be doing much other than holding block and spamming heals anyway.
Is this in duels bgs or cyro?
Anyways I’ll play more aggressively from now then
You should remove ambush from your bar.
Ambush make your offense extremely predictable, meaning people will actively mitigate your damage easely.
Ambushing people is litteraly asking them to block/dodge/shield/burst heal + prepare their offensive answer.
Use Camo hunter for damage boost instead.
Also, put all points into stamina and use primatics glyph for getting more hp and mag instead.
Being offensive on a stamblade is about going out of cloak without telegraph - suprise attack stun or heavy attack off balance stun + burst directly from out of cloak is the way to go.
Using clever alchemist isn't the best way to kill people on a tanky meta.
When you need to work on your kills because people are tanky, you want consistent damage set. New Moon for exemple.3 -
Tolino✭✭✭✭✭ThePhantomThorn wrote: »i dont get damage.
i run 6k wd. a huge amount of pen and a good crit chance in med.
and yet, i do less damage than a player with 3.5kwd 2 years ago.
wtf
i get this is the tank meta, but how did this even happen?
even fighting med 'glass' builds you do little damage.
The problem is:
High dmg Stats doasn't kill player. Good burst-Combos kill player!
Magsorc: Tôlino (Wardless)
Magden: Wa-Uller
Stamsorc: Tolino Sturmfalke0 -
ThePhantomThorn✭✭✭✭ThePhantomThorn wrote: »I've seen you a few times on xbox and you don't play aggressively enough in my opinion (no offence meant by that to anyone who plays nb defensively i personally just believe the class thrives when you dont give the target any breathing space). You have the damage but you don't pressure people as much as you could. After saying all of that though there are a few people who are just all out tanks on xbox that can be a nightmare to kill but those players usually give up far too much to be a threat anyway so just move on, they aren't going to be doing much other than holding block and spamming heals anyway.
Is this in duels bgs or cyro?
Anyways I’ll play more aggressively from now then
You should remove ambush from your bar.
Ambush make your offense extremely predictable, meaning people will actively mitigate your damage easely.
Ambushing people is litteraly asking them to block/dodge/shield/burst heal + prepare their offensive answer.
Use Camo hunter for damage boost instead.
Also, put all points into stamina and use primatics glyph for getting more hp and mag instead.
Being offensive on a stamblade is about going out of cloak without telegraph - suprise attack stun or heavy attack off balance stun + burst directly from out of cloak is the way to go.
Using clever alchemist isn't the best way to kill people on a tanky meta.
When you need to work on your kills because people are tanky, you want consistent damage set. New Moon for exemple.
Ok I’ll swap ambush to camo.
But I disagree about alch.
Adds more wd than new moon but lower uptime. And no sustain cost.
But ty. I was always stunning for my burst but I’ll hit from cloak
And I know my points are weird but if I have 30k stam and 17k hp I put everything else into mag for cloak and shade. In game I have 14k mag and 1k recov so I never in dry.
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Grimlok_S✭✭✭✭✭I won't try to dissect your build, but I will agree that %based damage mitigation is a little too easy to come by these days. Major+Minor Protection + Unique sources.Light Attack Hero
Class contextStamplar
StamDK
Stamsorc
MagDK
StamMAGStamden
Magplar
Stam NB
Bomb NB0 -
CeeJonesy✭✭✭ThePhantomThorn wrote: »Is this in duels bgs or cyro?
Anyways I’ll play more aggressively from now then
Ive seen you fighting in cyro a few times when i was reds last month. not seen you since i switched to blue though
PC EU | XBOX EU0 -
ThePhantomThorn✭✭✭✭ThePhantomThorn wrote: »Is this in duels bgs or cyro?
Anyways I’ll play more aggressively from now then
Ive seen you fighting in cyro a few times when i was reds last month. not seen you since i switched to blue though
Nah I switched to yellow. Reds to zergy 4 me.
And I tried ur advice in ic and I kill better, but some targets are still insane (brp stamplars)
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CeeJonesy✭✭✭yeh brp is horrid and will only get worse next patch i shouldnt slate it because ive been running it on my dk but it is definitely a crutch. just try and be offensive with your stuns and keep up the pressure to wear them down. might take a while for some people but most will go in the endPC EU | XBOX EU1
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Tbh phantom I've only ever seen you play a ganker or snipe build, lack of ability to play a class and it being the weakest class you will struggle, Jonesy is right that nb needs to be aggressive, keep buffs and vigor up then just weave on players but don't be obvious with your incap bow, play aggressive even if you die, you will get better that way1
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ThePhantomThorn✭✭✭✭MBBOWOLVERINE wrote: »Tbh phantom I've only ever seen you play a ganker or snipe build, lack of ability to play a class and it being the weakest class you will struggle, Jonesy is right that nb needs to be aggressive, keep buffs and vigor up then just weave on players but don't be obvious with your incap bow, play aggressive even if you die, you will get better that way
wolvo we have dueld in cyro multiple times lol. tho when i was in boc i was a ganker. i dont anymore. i hate snipe these days
and yeah im working on playing better, but, my point is players take too long to die
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Wouldn't exactly call it dueling but yh there are alot of tanky players, i just spec max damage and play aggressive, try berserk strike as it hits harder than incap and gives you targets resistances added to you for 8 seconds, helps 1vX0
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ThePhantomThorn✭✭✭✭MBBOWOLVERINE wrote: »Wouldn't exactly call it dueling but yh there are alot of tanky players, i just spec max damage and play aggressive, try berserk strike as it hits harder than incap and gives you targets resistances added to you for 8 seconds, helps 1vX
even with spriggans? or should i swap it out0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭maximum effective damage has been roughly the same for a long time now - around 8000 weapon/spell damage if you go all out damage in CP. Raw damage reduction is common place. Everyone has minor protection and major is easy to get. Keeping healing per second around 4-5K is easy now. The average amount of armor players have is higher than it was 2-3 years ago.
So defense has been out pacing offense.0
