As OP says, this isn't the first thread discussing the very same issue. It probably won't be the last. Might as well have pitched in there instead of making another one IMO.
As far as the substance of the post, it seems they're trying to have their cake and eat it too, both addressing the fact that group dungeons are too hard for solo players, and that main story quests are too easy to be challenging for advanced players. Again, IMO, the real problem was how much ZOS nerfed "veteran" zones after One Tamriel. I understand the concept behind One Tamriel, but it did throw away any meaningful progression. You dominate overland at level 1, and still dominate it at level 50 CP 810. You may get more skills and passives, but the challenge is non-existent. If ZOS were to restore progression, maybe more people would become battle-ready to do DLC dungeon content and enjoy the story without yet another band-aid solution.
Really, I lack the old Craglorn a lot. There are more people lack it I think.I think having harder zones could work on a compromise but I think we tried that with Craglorn and no one wanted to play it.
Paramedicus wrote: »Yeah, it would work similar to rewards for leveling up. So if there are three different sets in given dungeon you could choose only (and always) chest from on of them at end of quest.As long as no sets drop from mobs and bosses and players can never get a full set by just doing Solo mode then that's fine.
Gear drops being incentive for grinding those dungs in groups wouldnt suffice ofc, so these dungs should still be added to undaunted rotation (or there should be new undaunted quest introduced - like in your first post).Go ahead. I don't think devs reads topics on this forum (tho maybe when some discussion gets massive attention from community) but we can still talk about it and entertain ourselves.would you mind if I added your idea to the post?
Sorry, u want story mode u get no rewards, you don't get rewards for less effort
Paramedicus wrote: »i dunno why people quote Matt Frior over and over again, as this would somehow make ESO not a MMORPG but something else, different and unique.
ESO is MMORPG with strong focus on story (so with strong solo support). Modern MMOs generally shifted to more causal, solo players, and those games which used more vanilla approach (hardcore group focus) didn't do so well (see Wildcard as example). There are other MMORPG with strong focus on story like SWOTR or Secred World. ESO isnt someting unnamed and unique. ZOS just keep telling you this stuff, so TES players wont be afraid to try out ESO. Which is understandable (i don't count it as some malicious manipulation), because single-player TES gamers may see MMOs as some hardcore group stuff like early WoW.
(i know that quote from Matt will be used till the end of time anywayz).
It's not so big reward if you think about it (always same piece, so you won't be able to collect set even on multiple alts). It would be added to actually encourage group play (i.e to re-visit dungeon with group, if you liked that set piece and now want to farm whole set).Paramedicus wrote: »Yeah, it would work similar to rewards for leveling up. So if there are three different sets in given dungeon you could choose only (and always) chest from on of them at end of quest.As long as no sets drop from mobs and bosses and players can never get a full set by just doing Solo mode then that's fine.
Gear drops being incentive for grinding those dungs in groups wouldnt suffice ofc, so these dungs should still be added to undaunted rotation (or there should be new undaunted quest introduced - like in your first post).Go ahead. I don't think devs reads topics on this forum (tho maybe when some discussion gets massive attention from community) but we can still talk about it and entertain ourselves.would you mind if I added your idea to the post?
Sorry, u want story mode u get no rewards, you don't get rewards for less effort
/script JumpToHouse("@Paramedicus")↑↑↑ Feel free to visit my house if you need to use Transmute Station or vet Trial Dummy with buffs and Aetherial Well (look for the Harrowing Reaper on the northern rock wall) ↑↑↑
It is not my view. It is a fact. Check other games and just compare, closest one to ESO imo is Secret World (MMORPG developed before ESO):barney2525 wrote: »Paramedicus wrote: »i dunno why people quote Matt Frior over and over again, as this would somehow make ESO not a MMORPG but something else, different and unique.
ESO is MMORPG with strong focus on story (so with strong solo support). Modern MMOs generally shifted to more causal, solo players, and those games which used more vanilla approach (hardcore group focus) didn't do so well (see Wildcard as example). There are other MMORPG with strong focus on story like SWOTR or Secred World. ESO isnt someting unnamed and unique. ZOS just keep telling you this stuff, so TES players wont be afraid to try out ESO. Which is understandable (i don't count it as some malicious manipulation), because single-player TES gamers may see MMOs as some hardcore group stuff like early WoW.
(i know that quote from Matt will be used till the end of time anywayz).
Why would you think that Matt's quote is Not valid? And Why would you think that Your view is accurate ?
Just because you want the game to be what You want, does not mean the view of the " Office " is invalid somehow.
It seems to me that the DEVs are going to make the game what THEY want it to be, despite the conflict in what your view is.
If the DEVs say it is Not a traditional MMO, why should I buy in to your claims?
IMHO
/script JumpToHouse("@Paramedicus")↑↑↑ Feel free to visit my house if you need to use Transmute Station or vet Trial Dummy with buffs and Aetherial Well (look for the Harrowing Reaper on the northern rock wall) ↑↑↑
Paramedicus wrote: »It is not my view. It is a fact. Check other games and just compare, closest one to ESO imo is Secret World (MMORPG developed before ESO):barney2525 wrote: »Paramedicus wrote: »i dunno why people quote Matt Frior over and over again, as this would somehow make ESO not a MMORPG but something else, different and unique.
ESO is MMORPG with strong focus on story (so with strong solo support). Modern MMOs generally shifted to more causal, solo players, and those games which used more vanilla approach (hardcore group focus) didn't do so well (see Wildcard as example). There are other MMORPG with strong focus on story like SWOTR or Secred World. ESO isnt someting unnamed and unique. ZOS just keep telling you this stuff, so TES players wont be afraid to try out ESO. Which is understandable (i don't count it as some malicious manipulation), because single-player TES gamers may see MMOs as some hardcore group stuff like early WoW.
(i know that quote from Matt will be used till the end of time anywayz).
Why would you think that Matt's quote is Not valid? And Why would you think that Your view is accurate ?
Just because you want the game to be what You want, does not mean the view of the " Office " is invalid somehow.
It seems to me that the DEVs are going to make the game what THEY want it to be, despite the conflict in what your view is.
If the DEVs say it is Not a traditional MMO, why should I buy in to your claims?
IMHO
- story is very solo-able; quests are voiced and interesting. In some way i feel that SW quest are often done better than in ESO (there are hard riddles; sometimes you can choose how to do quests: by fighting or sneaking etc). So sometimes SW gives better illusion that you play single-player game than ESO (sometimes not, esp. if quest is about kil x stuff).
- there are zones (like in ESO) with own questlines and there is also main quest line.
- every few levels you unlock dungeon which need to be done with small group
- later you unlock raids
- there is also play-how-you want vibe: classless system, you make build by using 2 weapons (bar-swap :P) and learning skills
- combat is dynamic and depends on targeting (crosshair)
- there are 3 factions fighting with each-other (thats not so important tbh :P)
- i'm too lazy to think about more similarites because i played SW long time ago
And guess what? Nobody says that SW isn't MMORPG, because that would be just silly. If you want to hear my opinion, then I would say that ESO devs were heavily inspired by SW (but i can't know that ofc).
MMORPG is old genre now,, so particular games vary. Some MMORPGs are for hardcore grinders (esp. Asian ones), some lure you with cool, fast paced combat system (i.e Black Desert) and some with story (SWOTR, SW, ESO). OFC all modern and successful MMORPGs don't have just one type of content, so SWOTR, SW, ESO aren't just about story.
Anyway, what I'm trying to tell you (and other people quoting Matt): there isn't anything particular unique in ESO. I don't think that ESO has any unique or revolutionary mechanic concerning solo-play. I really like ESO tho, because it's well done MMORPG with many proven-to-work MMOPRG features (which may also include questing and story) + it's in TES universe. Sorry, but claimnig that ESO isn't MMORPG or is something unique is just bit ignorant..
If you want to know my opinion about Matt's words ("ESO is not really a traditional MMO..."), then I think he just wanted to say that ESO won't be another WoW clone (most people think about WoW when they hear term MMORPG). People quoting him ignore key-word used there (traditional). He isn't saying that ESO isn't MMO - IMO his message means "don't worry, it won't be TES-WoW with raiding 24/7".
/script JumpToHouse("@Paramedicus")↑↑↑ Feel free to visit my house if you need to use Transmute Station or vet Trial Dummy with buffs and Aetherial Well (look for the Harrowing Reaper on the northern rock wall) ↑↑↑
Paramedicus wrote: »It's not so big reward if you think about it (always same piece, so you won't be able to collect set even on multiple alts). It would be added to actually encourage group play (i.e to re-visit dungeon with group, if you liked that set piece and now want to farm whole set).Paramedicus wrote: »Yeah, it would work similar to rewards for leveling up. So if there are three different sets in given dungeon you could choose only (and always) chest from on of them at end of quest.As long as no sets drop from mobs and bosses and players can never get a full set by just doing Solo mode then that's fine.
Gear drops being incentive for grinding those dungs in groups wouldnt suffice ofc, so these dungs should still be added to undaunted rotation (or there should be new undaunted quest introduced - like in your first post).Go ahead. I don't think devs reads topics on this forum (tho maybe when some discussion gets massive attention from community) but we can still talk about it and entertain ourselves.would you mind if I added your idea to the post?
Sorry, u want story mode u get no rewards, you don't get rewards for less effort
Wifeaggro13 wrote: »As OP says, this isn't the first thread discussing the very same issue. It probably won't be the last. Might as well have pitched in there instead of making another one IMO.
As far as the substance of the post, it seems they're trying to have their cake and eat it too, both addressing the fact that group dungeons are too hard for solo players, and that main story quests are too easy to be challenging for advanced players. Again, IMO, the real problem was how much ZOS nerfed "veteran" zones after One Tamriel. I understand the concept behind One Tamriel, but it did throw away any meaningful progression. You dominate overland at level 1, and still dominate it at level 50 CP 810. You may get more skills and passives, but the challenge is non-existent. If ZOS were to restore progression, maybe more people would become battle-ready to do DLC dungeon content and enjoy the story without yet another band-aid solution.
TAM one was a shortsighted and poorly implemented fix to players not liking the way the game was designed reguarding main story lock outs for solo player, faction locked zones and of course level disparity . People were diheartened when they came into game to find old friends that were at max lvl and locked in a diffrent faction. the better fix would have been to keep making a verticaly progressed game and the new player be able to have a mentorship and lvl up to the group leaders lvl . the problem is really as a new player why the hell do you need immediate access to every place and every thing on day 1 first minute of the game. besides making lvl 50 is like maximum 15 or 20 hours for a moderately experienced player with exp buffs. the story in this game is medicore at best and the RPG aspects are all fluff. if you want a deeply rich RPG experience and story go play witcher. right now this game is actually eating itself with no direction.
ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »Interesting idea. But one slight correction: the Craglorn trials are sort of mean to be the ending of the Craglorn main story. Whoever has played through it will see that it kind of just ends. The trials are meant to serve as a cap to the story and resolve the remaining missing star signs.
ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »Interesting idea. But one slight correction: the Craglorn trials are sort of mean to be the ending of the Craglorn main story. Whoever has played through it will see that it kind of just ends. The trials are meant to serve as a cap to the story and resolve the remaining missing star signs.
They were but it was rarely participated in.
The hope of the proposal is to have a better compromise between Solo Story & Group content than what we currently have
Chicharron wrote: »so...
you want us to play the way you want.
butbutbut im talking about one piece, same part and one time only - just to give a taste for what can be farmed in group mode.Lol, that's not how ppl work. If set pieces were available in story, it would obliterate a huge portion of the dungeon community cuz why bother putting on effort if u can do easy solo mode?
/script JumpToHouse("@Paramedicus")↑↑↑ Feel free to visit my house if you need to use Transmute Station or vet Trial Dummy with buffs and Aetherial Well (look for the Harrowing Reaper on the northern rock wall) ↑↑↑
Paramedicus wrote: »butbutbut im talking about one piece, same part and one time only - just to give a taste for what can be farmed in group mode.Lol, that's not how ppl work. If set pieces were available in story, it would obliterate a huge portion of the dungeon community cuz why bother putting on effort if u can do easy solo mode?
Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Interesting idea. But personally I would like to see solo or group mode for every type of end game content.
For solo we only have Maelstrom arena. But imagine if we would have different mode for Maelstrom arena that could be done with a group, with Different / altered mechanics and different achievements.
Same could be done for Dungeons, other arenas and even Trials - by adding solo mode.
It is a perfect way to re-use old content & assets by slightly altering mechanics and adding different achievements. Also it would not have to be easy "story mode", but rather nMA or vMA level of difficulty.
Would fit perfectly to the "play as you want" philosophy. You want to play group with your friends ? Select group mode.
You are a lone wolf type of person and want to play solo and test your mantle rather than group skills ? Just select solo mode.
Moreover this type approach would be in keeping with Matt's blueprint for the game. Ignore the threads that you see about how ESO is an RPG or MMO. Instead take it from the person who developed,built, and runs the game. This quote from Matt Frior is just as true today as it was in 2016:
ESO is not really a traditional MMO, so we don’t use that term much around the office – and it is this distinction that separates it from other games. If you want to play it solo, like you did with other Elder Scrolls games, you can do that. If you want to play it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of you experience, you can join up with others and do that too. It’s really up to you to figure out how you want to play it, as we don’t enforce a play style one way or the other. In fact, ESO has been super-successful at taking gamers not used to massive online games, introducing them to the concepts of group play by making it fun and optional, and turning them into online gamers.
I believe that such a solo mode for group content would be the easiest way to make the game as accessible to the many without placing any undue burden on the few. Instead of a cost it is a moneymaker. It holds true to both the history of the TES franchise and to the vision of the creator of ESO. I'm all for it.