ecru wrote: »

Something ZOS hasn't gotten yet, that just about every other mmo dev understands, is that players don't like losing control over their character often or to a great extent. Permanent snares, repeated roots every 4 seconds, stuns over and over again, buggy cc breaks, etc are one of the things that at times can make ESO pvp completely unfun to play. No other game has really had CC like this since maybe DAoC at release, and even then it was toned way, way down. CC should be something you plan to use in a certain situation to stop someone from running, to help yourself kite, to secure a kill, etc. It shouldn't be something attached to skills that do 5 other things or attached to spammables.

When most players have a few abilities that CC someone in some way on their bar without any extra effort on their part, if you're facing multiple opponents, you're essentially guaranteed to be CC'd on cooldown the entire duration of the fight. This wouldn't be a big issue if immunity timers didn't allow you to be CC'd 20% of the time (or 100% of the time in the case of snares), but they do. ESO is probably the only game I've played in the past 15 years that has absolutely no diminishing returns on CC that's applied repeatedly.

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

The CC immunity period is very generous, especially when combined with Immunity pots. ESO is one of the most CC friendly MMO out-there. GW2, WoW, Archage - You can get hard CC locked in all those games.

However, I believe that ESO CC got 2 big issues:

-Break free is not consistent especially in high latency environment(performance issue).
-Direct CC abilities that go Through dodge(Fossilize, vemp drain).

You're welcome

Abyssmol wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Something ZOS hasn't gotten yet, that just about every other mmo dev understands, is that players don't like losing control over their character often or to a great extent. Permanent snares, repeated roots every 4 seconds, stuns over and over again, buggy cc breaks, etc are one of the things that at times can make ESO pvp completely unfun to play. No other game has really had CC like this since maybe DAoC at release, and even then it was toned way, way down. CC should be something you plan to use in a certain situation to stop someone from running, to help yourself kite, to secure a kill, etc. It shouldn't be something attached to skills that do 5 other things or attached to spammables.

When most players have a few abilities that CC someone in some way on their bar without any extra effort on their part, if you're facing multiple opponents, you're essentially guaranteed to be CC'd on cooldown the entire duration of the fight. This wouldn't be a big issue if immunity timers didn't allow you to be CC'd 20% of the time (or 100% of the time in the case of snares), but they do. ESO is probably the only game I've played in the past 15 years that has absolutely no diminishing returns on CC that's applied repeatedly.

The CC immunity period is very generous, especially when combined with Immunity pots. ESO is one of the most CC friendly MMO out-there. GW2, WoW, Archage - You can get hard CC locked in all those games.

However, I believe that ESO CC got 2 big issues:

-Break free is not consistent especially in high latency environment(performance issue).
-Direct CC abilities that go Through dodge(Fossilize, vemp drain).

While at it, why don't you mention the ones that go through block - streak, turn Evil.... CC is needed in this game or you would not kill anyone!

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

I dont really understand what your Problem is if with cc you are strictly Talking About stuns and similar, because there already is a cc immunity after one stun Ends. Is it bugged or something?

The cc immunity and unconditional break free (outside of stam cost) is very friendly compared to some other games. In one mmo I played each class had 1 ability with a 20 to 30 second cd that could break stuns and gave 2 seconds cc immunity, but the warrior class could stunlock you for up to 10 seconds with an ultimate up, so yeah eso cc immunity is veeeeery generous compared to that.

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

I dont really understand what your Problem is if with cc you are strictly Talking About stuns and similar, because there already is a cc immunity after one stun Ends. Is it bugged or something?

The cc immunity and unconditional break free (outside of stam cost) is very friendly compared to some other games. In one mmo I played each class had 1 ability with a 20 to 30 second cd that could break stuns and gave 2 seconds cc immunity, but the warrior class could stunlock you for up to 10 seconds with an ultimate up, so yeah eso cc immunity is veeeeery generous compared to that.

jadarock wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

I dont really understand what your Problem is if with cc you are strictly Talking About stuns and similar, because there already is a cc immunity after one stun Ends. Is it bugged or something?

The cc immunity and unconditional break free (outside of stam cost) is very friendly compared to some other games. In one mmo I played each class had 1 ability with a 20 to 30 second cd that could break stuns and gave 2 seconds cc immunity, but the warrior class could stunlock you for up to 10 seconds with an ultimate up, so yeah eso cc immunity is veeeeery generous compared to that.

I sit here and think my god some of you have no clue what's it's like to break free 3 times see the animation but in the end youre still cc'd get melted and die

This happens to me on a regular now !!!

Its even more infuriating to then get messages saying you're trash bla bla bla yet simple things like breaking free refuse to work properly

ecru wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Something ZOS hasn't gotten yet, that just about every other mmo dev understands, is that players don't like losing control over their character often or to a great extent. Permanent snares, repeated roots every 4 seconds, stuns over and over again, buggy cc breaks, etc are one of the things that at times can make ESO pvp completely unfun to play. No other game has really had CC like this since maybe DAoC at release, and even then it was toned way, way down. CC should be something you plan to use in a certain situation to stop someone from running, to help yourself kite, to secure a kill, etc. It shouldn't be something attached to skills that do 5 other things or attached to spammables.

When most players have a few abilities that CC someone in some way on their bar without any extra effort on their part, if you're facing multiple opponents, you're essentially guaranteed to be CC'd on cooldown the entire duration of the fight. This wouldn't be a big issue if immunity timers didn't allow you to be CC'd 20% of the time (or 100% of the time in the case of snares), but they do. ESO is probably the only game I've played in the past 15 years that has absolutely no diminishing returns on CC that's applied repeatedly.

The CC immunity period is very generous, especially when combined with Immunity pots. ESO is one of the most CC friendly MMO out-there. GW2, WoW, Archage - You can get hard CC locked in all those games.

However, I believe that ESO CC got 2 big issues:

-Break free is not consistent especially in high latency environment(performance issue).
-Direct CC abilities that go Through dodge(Fossilize, vemp drain).

I don't think they're generous because you can be CC'd repeatedly by CC of the same duration every 4-6 seconds. In WoW if you chain cc someone, there are diminishing returns (the cc duration is continually reduced with each cast), so you cannot be stunned 20% of the time. You can't continually use your CC or you're punished by the DR, which means people actually think about when to use CC rather than just spamming it on cooldown. TTK is also much, much lower in ESO, which exacerbates the issue.

ecru wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Something ZOS hasn't gotten yet, that just about every other mmo dev understands, is that players don't like losing control over their character often or to a great extent. Permanent snares, repeated roots every 4 seconds, stuns over and over again, buggy cc breaks, etc are one of the things that at times can make ESO pvp completely unfun to play. No other game has really had CC like this since maybe DAoC at release, and even then it was toned way, way down. CC should be something you plan to use in a certain situation to stop someone from running, to help yourself kite, to secure a kill, etc. It shouldn't be something attached to skills that do 5 other things or attached to spammables.

When most players have a few abilities that CC someone in some way on their bar without any extra effort on their part, if you're facing multiple opponents, you're essentially guaranteed to be CC'd on cooldown the entire duration of the fight. This wouldn't be a big issue if immunity timers didn't allow you to be CC'd 20% of the time (or 100% of the time in the case of snares), but they do. ESO is probably the only game I've played in the past 15 years that has absolutely no diminishing returns on CC that's applied repeatedly.

The CC immunity period is very generous, especially when combined with Immunity pots. ESO is one of the most CC friendly MMO out-there. GW2, WoW, Archage - You can get hard CC locked in all those games.

However, I believe that ESO CC got 2 big issues:

-Break free is not consistent especially in high latency environment(performance issue).
-Direct CC abilities that go Through dodge(Fossilize, vemp drain).

I don't think they're generous because you can be CC'd repeatedly by CC of the same duration every 4-6 seconds. In WoW if you chain cc someone, there are diminishing returns (the cc duration is continually reduced with each cast), so you cannot be stunned 20% of the time. You can't continually use your CC or you're punished by the DR, which means people actually think about when to use CC rather than just spamming it on cooldown. TTK is also much, much lower in ESO, which exacerbates the issue.

In WoW you get CC diminishing returns for only for the same type of CC . 2 Players alone can Prema CC a target. With some classes/builds you can also do it solo. In WoW for most classes/buiilds you have only one CC break with huge CD. In ESO when things working as intended you can only get stunned every 6 sec and break free immediately. So ya, I prefer ESO system much more.

You're creating a scenario where two organized players are facing one player and coordinating abilities to stun lock someone to show that wow has "worse" cc. How often does this actually happen? In reality the DR in wow means that multiple people trying to CC you are generally at a disadvantage when it comes to outputting CC because they're overwriting each other's CC, triggering the DR, while you have full control over the DR with your own CC. In this situation you won't be CC'd for a long time unless your opponents are of equal skill and extremely organized, and in that case, like in any game, you were going to lose the fight if you were outnumbered anyway.

The overall point I'm making here is that wow punishes players for spamming CC, whereas ESO rewards you because there is no DR at all. On top of that, ESO's CC is still broken enough that a few minutes before this post I was rooted and stunned by fossilize, broke free, roll dodged out of the root, and was stunned one second later again by a leap. The immunity timer clearly doesn't even work properly as it is. The best way to ensure a player doesn't get away from your zerg is to just spam your CC on cooldown without any added thought to it.

Iskiab wrote: »

There’s nothing wrong with cc going through block or dodge rolling. It’s to stop perma blockers from tanking multiple people or dodge roll spammers from dodging everything.

The problem is solely on break free and how cc immunity is applied. It’s applied - AFTER - you break free, so with multiple CC’s spammed you never get immunity and break free breaks.

Best solution is to have every cc in game give cc immunity as soon as it’s applied.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

There’s nothing wrong with cc going through block or dodge rolling. It’s to stop perma blockers from tanking multiple people or dodge roll spammers from dodging everything.

The problem is solely on break free and how cc immunity is applied. It’s applied - AFTER - you break free, so with multiple CC’s spammed you never get immunity and break free breaks.

Best solution is to have every cc in game give cc immunity as soon as it’s applied.

Actually this would make things worse because you could be chain ccs if you don't have the stam to break free as the immunity duration could wear off during the cc duration. With it applying at the end of the cc at least you can't be ccd again for a short period of time.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

There’s nothing wrong with cc going through block or dodge rolling. It’s to stop perma blockers from tanking multiple people or dodge roll spammers from dodging everything.

The problem is solely on break free and how cc immunity is applied. It’s applied - AFTER - you break free, so with multiple CC’s spammed you never get immunity and break free breaks.

Best solution is to have every cc in game give cc immunity as soon as it’s applied.

Actually this would make things worse because you could be chain ccs if you don't have the stam to break free as the immunity duration could wear off during the cc duration. With it applying at the end of the cc at least you can't be ccd again for a short period of time.

All of these things sound really good in theory, but in reality the CC immunities are not functioning as they should be. Immunity should mean that you cannot get stuck again no matter what type of CC you are hit with 2 seconds after breaking free etc. This is simply not so.

This is not the case.

In ESO there are multiple types of control each work slightly differently but they fall into the following brackets.


1) Hard CC - E.g. Fear
2) Roots - E.g. Bombard
3) Snares - E.g. Caltrops

Different skills can apply multiple types of effect - for example Bombard is both a Root and a Snare.

Break free works to give you immunity to type 1). You can also use an immovable potion to give you immunity to type 1.

for type 2 Dodge roll and certain skills give you immunity for 2-4 seconds (depending on the skill). An immovable potion does nothing. Additionally if you purge the root off then you can immediately be re-rooted.

Snares work in the same way as type 2 however speed buffs also mitigate them on a + or - scale. for example a 40% snare will be completely mitigated by 40% movement speed increase.