Do people not realise this game is a TES game foremost?

myskyrim26 · January 2020

ESO is not some kind of a spin-off or whatever. It is a TES world. TES is not run-like-mad-hit-buttons-gain-achivements. TES is popular because of a deep, elaborated LORE. First, ESO became popular among those who love the LORE. People who played Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind came to ESO to see their beloved world in the distant past. To learn the new lore. To see Tamriel in all its beauty. Not to run-like-mad-hit-buttons-gain-achivements. So, these players MUST be respected. And hiding the most valuable thing in this game, the LORE in dungeons, PVP or whatever else content is a SHAME.

FierceSam · January 2020

Well dude.

Lore is lore and it’s going to hide all over the place. Sometimes in plain sight but sometimes deep down in dungeons.

I mean we’d all end up looking a bit stupid if we spent all that time in delves, dungeons and trials and never managed to find anything meaningful.

Main questline stories though probably shouldn’t be down there mainly because the story telling method/mechanic doesn’t work well in a group environment.

myskyrim26 · January 2020

FierceSam wrote: »

Well dude.

Lore is lore and it’s going to hide all over the place. Sometimes in plain sight but sometimes deep down in dungeons.

I mean we’d all end up looking a bit stupid if we spent all that time in delves, dungeons and trials and never managed to find anything meaningful.

Main questline stories though probably shouldn’t be down there mainly because the story telling method/mechanic doesn’t work well in a group environment.

A very simple solution: solo dungeon mode with no rewards like gear, skillpoint, achivements and whatever else players are hunting for in dungeons. A solo mode just for the story.

mrfrontman · January 2020

myskyrim26 wrote: »

ESO is not some kind of a spin-off or whatever. It is a TES world. TES is not run-like-mad-hit-buttons-gain-achivements. TES is popular because of a deep, elaborated LORE. First, ESO became popular among those who love the LORE. People who played Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind came to ESO to see their beloved world in the distant past. To learn the new lore. To see Tamriel in all its beauty. Not to run-like-mad-hit-buttons-gain-achivements. So, these players MUST be respected. And hiding the most valuable thing in this game, the LORE in dungeons, PVP or whatever else content is a SHAME.

This is simply your personal opinion, please stop trying to speak on behalf of everyone else. I personally couldn't care less about the lore. I enjoy the gameplay and that's that. I MUST respect who'm I feel is worthy of my respect, not people you think I should respect.

Thanks for your input though.

redlink1979 · January 2020

myskyrim26 wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

Well dude.

Lore is lore and it’s going to hide all over the place. Sometimes in plain sight but sometimes deep down in dungeons.

I mean we’d all end up looking a bit stupid if we spent all that time in delves, dungeons and trials and never managed to find anything meaningful.

Main questline stories though probably shouldn’t be down there mainly because the story telling method/mechanic doesn’t work well in a group environment.

A very simple solution: solo dungeon mode with no rewards like gear, skillpoint, achivements and whatever else players are hunting for in dungeons. A solo mode just for the story.

We don't need a solo mode just for the story or to check out all the lore books availalbe: play dungeon(s) with friends and guild mates (people who have time and don't rush) and not PUG...

zvavi · January 2020

myskyrim26 wrote: »

ESO is not some kind of a spin-off or whatever. It is a TES world. TES is not run-like-mad-hit-buttons-gain-achivements. TES is popular because of a deep, elaborated LORE. First, ESO became popular among those who love the LORE. People who played Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind came to ESO to see their beloved world in the distant past. To learn the new lore. To see Tamriel in all its beauty. Not to run-like-mad-hit-buttons-gain-achivements. So, these players MUST be respected. And hiding the most valuable thing in this game, the LORE in dungeons, PVP or whatever else content is a SHAME.

90% if not more of the lore is not gated by any multiplayer or PvP activity. Trying to strip that not even 10% of the lore from dungeons and PvP and make them plain and loreless is much more shameful. But i assume we will never agree.

NotaDaedraWorshipper · January 2020

Here I thought this discussion was going to complain against actual issues towards the lore and the Elder Scrolls setting. Like ridiculous mounts, skins etc that makes no sense and fit better in Warcraft or Final Fantasy. Or disregard for the lore, such as Bosmer and Argonian's racial passives.

Czekoludek · January 2020

To know dungeons story you need to play them on normal, not veteran. When ppl speak about how hard dlc dungeons are, they speak about veteran, not normal. Normal dlc dungeons are easy even with only 2 ppl, 4 mediocre players shouldn't have any problem at all to do them. Also stop with this "combat is not important, we have lore" argument. Mamy players play ESO mainly for high PvE/PvP combat and don't care about the lore. You have no right to decide that their gameplay is less important then yours.

FierceSam · January 2020

myskyrim26 wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

Well dude.

Lore is lore and it’s going to hide all over the place. Sometimes in plain sight but sometimes deep down in dungeons.

I mean we’d all end up looking a bit stupid if we spent all that time in delves, dungeons and trials and never managed to find anything meaningful.

Main questline stories though probably shouldn’t be down there mainly because the story telling method/mechanic doesn’t work well in a group environment.

A very simple solution: solo dungeon mode with no rewards like gear, skillpoint, achivements and whatever else players are hunting for in dungeons. A solo mode just for the story.

Except that it’s the story quest that gives the skillpoint in every dungeon, so I’ll be keeping that. And if I’m a-killing things then I’m a-looting things and you can pry that gear out of my cold, dead hands.

You don’t get extra rewards just for playing team-up

Playing a dungeon solo at the moment does enable you to follow the dungeon questline properly (ie you initiate all the dialogue, read it at your pace, respond as you wish and trigger and view all the cutscenes). But soloing DLC dungeons is something of a challenge, especially as many of the mechanics are specifically designed to require more than 1 player. So the upshot of that is that DLC dungeons, while great, are a rubbish way to tell critical parts of a year long story.

ZOS understand this, which is why the Scalebreaker dungeons contained no main storyline elements at all. While the continuation of Selene’s story from Selene’s web (even though it suffers from the same story mechanic flaws) shows you can have some ongoing storylines in dungeons, it should be entirely self-contained and not interfere with the process of running a dungeon at a sensible pace.

TL:DR I’m keeping all the skill points and loot if I have to run a dungeon solo thank you. And it’s still a poor way of telling main questline story.

Nairinhe · January 2020

redlink1979 wrote: »

myskyrim26 wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

Well dude.

Lore is lore and it’s going to hide all over the place. Sometimes in plain sight but sometimes deep down in dungeons.

I mean we’d all end up looking a bit stupid if we spent all that time in delves, dungeons and trials and never managed to find anything meaningful.

Main questline stories though probably shouldn’t be down there mainly because the story telling method/mechanic doesn’t work well in a group environment.

A very simple solution: solo dungeon mode with no rewards like gear, skillpoint, achivements and whatever else players are hunting for in dungeons. A solo mode just for the story.

We don't need a solo mode just for the story or to check out all the lore books availalbe: play dungeon(s) with friends and guild mates (people who have time and don't rush) and not PUG...

You (and many others) don't need solo mode, I (and many others) do. The thing is, solo mode doesn't take anything from you, while its absence does take from us ability to enjoy the story.

Minyassa · January 2020

Pretty sure that many, many people just jump into any old MMO regardless of theme, setting or lore and don't even notice where they are. Why else would it be the norm that people just rush through dungeons as fast as possible to get PvP gear and then just spending all their time focusing on killing other players? It literally does not matter where they are, they could be in Smurf Village for all lore matters with a lot of folks. I honestly think a generic MMO that literally named NPCs "Quest Giver #21" and objectives "PvP Keep A" would probably still do really well.

Aznarb · January 2020

Nairinhe wrote: »

redlink1979 wrote: »

myskyrim26 wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

Well dude.

Lore is lore and it’s going to hide all over the place. Sometimes in plain sight but sometimes deep down in dungeons.

I mean we’d all end up looking a bit stupid if we spent all that time in delves, dungeons and trials and never managed to find anything meaningful.

Main questline stories though probably shouldn’t be down there mainly because the story telling method/mechanic doesn’t work well in a group environment.

A very simple solution: solo dungeon mode with no rewards like gear, skillpoint, achivements and whatever else players are hunting for in dungeons. A solo mode just for the story.

We don't need a solo mode just for the story or to check out all the lore books availalbe: play dungeon(s) with friends and guild mates (people who have time and don't rush) and not PUG...

You (and many others) don't need solo mode, I (and many others) do. The thing is, solo mode doesn't take anything from you, while its absence does take from us ability to enjoy the story.

No ?
It's an MMORPG, you've already 80%+ of the game soloable.
I like the story, that what it brought me here.
I don't read story in PUG, like I said : MMORPG : I've find a guilde and we do all type of content and I've a groupe with we take the time to read everything we want.

That NOT the game to adapt to YOUR will. YOU have to adapt and ply the game like it's mean to be, simple.
Their is plenty of guild who will be happy to let you read or even quest with you in any groupe content.
Yet, you've to move your ass and make an effort. ZoS have already do way to much for solo play.

I just don't understand all these people who want to have all MMORPG be a solo game, why the hell do you even play here ? Go find real solo-rpg, their is a ton out there...

Ashfen · January 2020

Aznarb wrote: »

I just don't understand all these people who want to have all MMORPG be a solo game, why the hell do you even play here ? Go find real solo-rpg, their is a ton out there...

Because they love TES lore, maybe ?

FakeFox · January 2020

I would agree that ESOs playerbase is somewhat untypical for MMOs. Never the less this is a MMO as much as it is a TES game. It has big PvP and endgame communities as well and maybe you want to respect those, just like you are demanding to be respected. I am really not sure how you get to conclusions like:

myskyrim26 wrote: »

First, ESO became popular among those who love the LORE. People who played Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind came to ESO to see their beloved world in the distant past.

Is there anything to back that up? At least I do not see my self in that, as I am primarily playing for the MMO aspect, even though I am a TES fan. And I also do not see much lore hidden behind endgame progression. Most of the lore is in the open world and dungeons and raids are mostly self contained sidestories.

zvavi · January 2020

FakeFox wrote: »

dungeons and raids are mostly self contained sidestories.

To be honest some of the best lores are inside of those dungeons, i mean, how awesome is that to participate in a hunt?! Then again, the lore feels sooooo good just because the enemies actually feel like they have weight behind them, unlike "i will destroy the world" :slap: *dead*

Dusk_Coven · January 2020

At least they stopped putting books in dungeons (like really? what pug is gonna stop and let you read the whole thing?).
C'mon ZOS, look at play patterns.

colossalvoids · January 2020

If you need only lore why not go and read uesp quest layout and not even bother with playing game and ''hit-buttons-gain-achievements''?

But on a serious note, do you really want just a tes themepark again? Not like finding a group for a group content, learning your class and combat mechanics but just solo (=overland difficulty, if you don't care about difficulty you can already solo them) mode where your health regen might outheal a whole boss encounter. Idk but it's strange to hear from someone who claims playing things like morrowind, where you wasn't a passive observer for sure.

Galwylin · January 2020

Not sure if its the same people making these threads but assuming it isn't maybe they should have three levels solo, normal and veteran. Green gear, blue gear and purple. If there really are a lot that feel that way then maybe its something they should consider. But I think there's a big desire for players to group up (I've always preferred the show up to event auto into the group that is created by game for that event but that's just me). Even if there is a big desire for it I'm not sure the devs have that desire for whatever reason. WoW is even doing that (ESO has often ran behind industry treads).

I'm pretty sure its apparent to most that solo quests often have much better characters and plots that have given players emotion. I have never seen any kind of group content do that (maybe I'm forgetting something) so this is probably wanting something that isn't as good as is imagined. I recently did the dying old man with two children in Balmora and have always thought what a sweet little story they gave there in a side quest. Helping Naryu in that town was great. I've just never seen anything like that in group content. Even the Elsweyr companion DLC dungeons didn't add much more to the overall story. I think that's what they plan to beef up. How what happens in the dungeon will be more important to the story but its still going to be a story in group content. A read up of the quest will probably be just as interesting if not more.

Now I will be shocked if they are not only more connected to the overall story but also great stories on their own that hit you in the feels or really make you think. I'd love to see it but I think folks are probably hoping for more than will actually be there.

I'm just trying to picture that Naryu questline as a dungeon... I just can't.

zvavi · January 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

At least they stopped putting books in dungeons (like really? what pug is gonna stop and let you read the whole thing?).
C'mon ZOS, look at play patterns.

You are aware they are saved in your journal and you can read them later, right?

TheFM · January 2020

Title:The Elder Scrolls® Online: Greymoor™

Genre:Massively Multiplayer, RPG

Developer:ZeniMax Online Studios

Publisher:Bethesda Softworks

Release Date:June 2020

Languages:English, German, French

MartiniDaniels · January 2020

No, man. I love ESO lore of course and this is my favorite lore universe. But what made us love that lore? Freedom, immersion and ability to do crazy things! Morrowind was perfect in that. Jumps on half maps, levitating at stupidly high speeds, killing entire villages/dungeons with 1 spell! Stealing things which cost more then you can ever earn by normal questing! Skyrim was of course much weaker from that point of view, but it provided huge freedom of gameplay as well and amazing immersion which more then compensated for lack of those crazy spells.
So TES (single player) is not only about lore. It is about freedom and immersion in very original universe.
ESO unfortunately not so great in terms of overland immersion, but at least we have freedom and immersion in combat! (with exception of trials) And I love Cyrodiil and DLC dungeons, because lore and combat are connected there, while in overland there is only lore.

jcm2606 · January 2020

Ashfen wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

I just don't understand all these people who want to have all MMORPG be a solo game, why the hell do you even play here ? Go find real solo-rpg, their is a ton out there...

Because they love TES lore, maybe ?

Wrong genre for that.

I'm all for adding more accessible story content, but the moment you start fundamentally changing the game into something it wasn't and shouldn't ever be, that's when I'll have a problem.

Nairinhe · January 2020

Aznarb wrote: »

Nairinhe wrote: »

redlink1979 wrote: »

myskyrim26 wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

Well dude.

Lore is lore and it’s going to hide all over the place. Sometimes in plain sight but sometimes deep down in dungeons.

I mean we’d all end up looking a bit stupid if we spent all that time in delves, dungeons and trials and never managed to find anything meaningful.

Main questline stories though probably shouldn’t be down there mainly because the story telling method/mechanic doesn’t work well in a group environment.

A very simple solution: solo dungeon mode with no rewards like gear, skillpoint, achivements and whatever else players are hunting for in dungeons. A solo mode just for the story.

We don't need a solo mode just for the story or to check out all the lore books availalbe: play dungeon(s) with friends and guild mates (people who have time and don't rush) and not PUG...

You (and many others) don't need solo mode, I (and many others) do. The thing is, solo mode doesn't take anything from you, while its absence does take from us ability to enjoy the story.

No ?
It's an MMORPG, you've already 80%+ of the game soloable.
I like the story, that what it brought me here.
I don't read story in PUG, like I said : MMORPG : I've find a guilde and we do all type of content and I've a groupe with we take the time to read everything we want.

That NOT the game to adapt to YOUR will. YOU have to adapt and ply the game like it's mean to be, simple.
Their is plenty of guild who will be happy to let you read or even quest with you in any groupe content.
Yet, you've to move your ass and make an effort. ZoS have already do way to much for solo play.

I just don't understand all these people who want to have all MMORPG be a solo game, why the hell do you even play here ? Go find real solo-rpg, their is a ton out there...

Games do adapt to the will of players, no? There's something we want and we voice our needs. Because if there's enough demand we may get what you want. If not - it's OK.

It's a simple request, an idea for devs. But you are so bent on not letting us even ask, it's ridiculous. People like you turn any such thread into a battlefield. Why? How does it hurt you?

haelene · January 2020

jcm2606 wrote: »

Ashfen wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

I just don't understand all these people who want to have all MMORPG be a solo game, why the hell do you even play here ? Go find real solo-rpg, their is a ton out there...

Because they love TES lore, maybe ?

Wrong genre for that.

I'm all for adding more accessible story content, but the moment you start fundamentally changing the game into something it wasn't and shouldn't ever be, that's when I'll have a problem.

Not... really?

ESO in particular has two narrative driven content releases every year which contain, expand upon, and reinforce existing TES lore. The fact that it's an online game where lots of people are in the same instance has no bearing on this. As I recall, all the major MMORPG's, online action RPG's, whatever, have lore and narrative.

If you only play for combat, that's fine, but let's not pretend that's the only drive people have to play this game.

Raisin · January 2020

Lore has nothing to do with style of gameplay. ESO is still filled to the brim with lore, and it's distributed in different ways for you to experience. And it is still equally an MMO -- many consider it the best MMO currently in the market, and play it for non-lore-related reasons. You have no business deciding that your personal priorities should be the priorities of the game.

Your argument is basically that ESO 'hides' lore by putting the lore....in the game. Making you play the game. Now you can go read up on it on the wiki if you want, but don't ruin the game for the rest of us. You think we want to play 90% of the content without lore?

Despite your high CP, good gear and lots of build advice you've consistently struggled with quest bosses, single overland bosses, etc. Sometimes you need to draw the line and understand that you are the problem, and you cannot fulfill the most basic tasks of a game already very accessible to casuals.

And if you wanted to just talk about a Solo Dungeon Mode, you could have done so in the current active topics about it. So do that.

jcm2606 · January 2020

haelene wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Ashfen wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

I just don't understand all these people who want to have all MMORPG be a solo game, why the hell do you even play here ? Go find real solo-rpg, their is a ton out there...

Because they love TES lore, maybe ?

Wrong genre for that.

I'm all for adding more accessible story content, but the moment you start fundamentally changing the game into something it wasn't and shouldn't ever be, that's when I'll have a problem.

Not... really?

ESO in particular has two narrative driven content releases every year which contain, expand upon, and reinforce existing TES lore. The fact that it's an online game where lots of people are in the same instance has no bearing on this. As I recall, all the major MMORPG's, online action RPG's, whatever, have lore and narrative.

If you only play for combat, that's fine, but let's not pretend that's the only drive people have to play this game.

And yet it's at the core of the game, driving the very gameplay loop, economy, overland content (world bosses, pub dungeons, dolmens), and more.

As I said in the other thread, you can paint a Ford red, stick some Corvette badges over it, change the seats and steering wheel out for some genuine Corvette ones, get some Corvette replica light kits, yet, at its core, it is still a Ford.

No amount of dress-up will make this game anything other than an MMORPG, until they change the very core of the game. Move away from the gameplay loop requiring you to do challenging solo PvE content, group PvE content and PvP content, in order to progress your character. Scale the economy way down so it isn't as reliant on having an MMO population to drive it. Remove everything to do with groups from overland content.

But they won't do that, because, at its heart, ESO is an MMORPG. It can have all the TES lore in the world, and that doesn't make it any less an MMORPG than when it started.

Az was right. If you're wanting a fully solo RPG experience, it might be time to find a solo RPG. You're in the wrong genre for that.

NeillMcAttack · January 2020

But why is ESO always nominated for awards in the MMO category? And gleefully accepted and boasted about, used in marketing etc.
Because gamers understand the difference between a single-player RPG and an MMORPG. Apparently, many here, don’t!!

CASP3R421 · January 2020

imagine, its 2020, and you are mad that eso isnt skyrim.

jcm2606 · January 2020

CASP3R421 wrote: »

imagine, its 2020, and you are mad that eso isnt skyrim.

Is it really that hard to believe, given how much of a focus they've put on story content as of late? Elsweyr alone probably brought in more players than the game's ever seen in a single release, and the hype train is already ramping up for Greymoor, so we're likely to see an even bigger uptick there.

gatekeeper13 · January 2020

Absolutely agree with the OP. Your topic brought back in my mind a regular player from Cyrodiil CP Campaign, who said in the chat zone that "PVE players are beta males". When I read that disgusting post of his, I was so angered not so much by his obvious stup@dity or arrogance but by his complete and absolute cluelessness of what ESO is. For me ESO is a you said: Lore. I came to this game after I completed around 10 times all Oblivion and Skyrim content, seeing it as a substitute for a single player TES game since ESO has enormous PVE content. I mainly play PVP the last 1-2 months but I still enjoy PVE the most because I love exploring the game's lore.

Ofc, we should never forget that ESO is still a MMORPG and games like that require group-based content and activities.

haelene · January 2020

jcm2606 wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Ashfen wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

I just don't understand all these people who want to have all MMORPG be a solo game, why the hell do you even play here ? Go find real solo-rpg, their is a ton out there...

Because they love TES lore, maybe ?

Wrong genre for that.

I'm all for adding more accessible story content, but the moment you start fundamentally changing the game into something it wasn't and shouldn't ever be, that's when I'll have a problem.

Not... really?

ESO in particular has two narrative driven content releases every year which contain, expand upon, and reinforce existing TES lore. The fact that it's an online game where lots of people are in the same instance has no bearing on this. As I recall, all the major MMORPG's, online action RPG's, whatever, have lore and narrative.

If you only play for combat, that's fine, but let's not pretend that's the only drive people have to play this game.

And yet it's at the core of the game, driving the very gameplay loop, economy, overland content (world bosses, pub dungeons, dolmens), and more.

As I said in the other thread, you can paint a Ford red, stick some Corvette badges over it, change the seats and steering wheel out for some genuine Corvette ones, get some Corvette replica light kits, yet, at its core, it is still a Ford.

No amount of dress-up will make this game anything other than an MMORPG, until they change the very core of the game. Move away from the gameplay loop requiring you to do challenging solo PvE content, group PvE content and PvP content, in order to progress your character. Scale the economy way down so it isn't as reliant on having an MMO population to drive it. Remove everything to do with groups from overland content.

But they won't do that, because, at its heart, ESO is an MMORPG. It can have all the TES lore in the world, and that doesn't make it any less an MMORPG than when it started.

Az was right. If you're wanting a fully solo RPG experience, it might be time to find a solo RPG. You're in the wrong genre for that.

Call it whatever you want. I'm done arguing semantics, especially since that's all you guys get stuck on. I don't care, I'm done repeating myself since you guys don't seem to read more than one post and I've already argued most of your points to death. Instead I'm going to focus specifically on your insistence that the MMO means more than the RPG in this game.

In terms of core gameplay loop - have you ever quested? You realize that lore and story are at the core of that too? That lore and story drive the market for furniture plans and motif's? That story and lore drive world bosses, dungeons, and dolmens? That none of this would be here - PvE, PvP, solo or group - without the world and lore that the TES games created? That ZOS and ESO are still expanding on and developing? That progression would not exist the way it does if not for the RPG portion of the genre?

What is important to you, isn't necessarily what's important to everybody else, and like another poster here said, you have no right to dictate what that is for other players - especially since there are a lot of us (that includes me) who find both combat and lore equally important. I already do group and solo endgame content. I duo content with my wife. The only thing I don't do is PvP. I'm not arguing this for me.

My point (and many other's) is that there is nothing wrong with having options that include more play styles. In fact, it's good for the game overall - whereas narrowly defining the game and telling players to leave because they enjoy a different core piece of the game is not.