Seraphayel wrote: »

Catering to new players or bringing in brand new players after 5, 6 years shouldn’t be the main goal. It should be one of the reasons but never the main one. The main goal of ZOS should be to keep veterans entertained and hooked. That’s where Chapters really fall flat because of how they are approached. God damn give us one veteran zone or something like that, casuals and newbies have dozens of zones already. Chapters don’t have to cater to them.

Keeping/increasing the playerbase is the underlying goal and your money is just as valuable as mine or a new player’s. No more, no less.

A vet zone immediately limits the playerbase and has many more risks. There’s no guarantee that it will be exclusive enough to satisfy the ‘git gud’ crowd or enticing enough to encourage less ‘vet’ players to bother playing it, or that it will have any longevity once the first wave of elite has completed it and moved on. Chapters that allow all players to take part ensure that they are actually made and realistically priced.

For all its faults, Craglorn is a harder zone. And it’s completion rate is poor. It’s hardly an incentive to encourage ZOS to ‘go exclusive’ on their content. Similarly, hard overland content (eg World bosses) is often too hard for the majority of players and too ‘easy’ for the ‘vets’, with the result that it’s largely ignored.

ZOS had their fingers burnt with levelled zones which almost torched the game.One Tamriel rejuvenated it, brought more players in and helped ensure its survival. They’re not going to go back now.

GatheredMyst wrote: »

... Pun (not) intended?

While the storylines have thus far been pretty good, I feel like ZOS's commitment to horizontal progression has come at the expense of developing our characters from a PVE Vantage Point.

I'll use my Nightblade as an example. I've had him since Morrowind, so a good amount of time.

...He has all the skills that I really want him to have.
...He has a gearset that i'm very happy with.

There haven't been any new PVE Skill Lines that he can really take advantage of, or any new ways to develop himself within his class or weapons.

If you think about it, since the game has come out, aside from tweaks to existing skill lines, if you've stayed committed to a single character and playstyle, your class hasn't really been able to "progress" all that much within itself, nor has it really "changed" aside from balance adjustments. There hasn't really been anything "new" from a PVE Skill Vantage Point to chew on.

Sure, there's been interesting alterior skills: Like Thievery and Murder, and the Psijics was an interesting addition, but when I think of an MMO Expansion, I think of new and exciting ways to play my character. I think of new abilities to earn and play with. I think of character advancement. And really.. there hasn't been a ton of that.

Coming on four expansions later, i'd think that we would have something much more substantial from that vantage point. But we don't... and I don't understand why this has not been something that ZOS has felt the need to expand on in their game.

Am I alone here?

Hey @GatheredMyst

You are definitely not alone.

I have a number of max level characters with enough skill points to enable them to do whatever they please. I’ve completed all the quest elements, the vet dungeons and most trials. So their advancement comes more from achievements and my own advancement as a player than from any vertical progression mechanic within the game.

I like the fact there is a gear cap and I’m not constantly having to farm *** as I level. I like the fact that my characters all share the same CP once they’ve got to L50, cos simply chasing CP is fun the first time, but only the first time. Changing either of these elements would be massively counter productive.

Equally I’m not sure that I would benefit from having my characters becoming ever more powerful as I progressed. That just seems like a cop-out to enable me to out level content without actually becoming more skilled at playing.

I think ZOS missed a trick by not including additional thieves guild and Dark Brotherhood activities in later zones, because these skill lines feel largely irrelevant now. And again there’s no sense of progression. Once you have finished those quest lines, they really are finished.

atm my characters’ progression is all about my progression and my journey through the more challenging parts of the game. So it’s about my skills not theirs.

The new chapter promises some new skill lines/passives that might be fun (or might not), but that’s as far as game progression is likely to go right now.

I guess if you’ve done it all and find no joy in doing it again, then it’s a bit like finishing a single player game and there’s nothing wrong with that.

MattVH wrote: »

Even Guild Wars 2 has many mobs running around that are really nasty. Story instances can get pretty challenging as well. ESO is just plain ridiculous. Fights, even with 'trash' in overland should feel more like a fight/duel and not a slaughter. If you pull more than a few mobs you should be in big trouble IMO. It would also fit the elder scrolls style so much more having to deal with an enemy one-on-one for a bit. I wish this game was less clearing trash. For dungeons as well. Isn't it so much more fun to deal with strong and powerful mobs one-on-one?

And then there's the quests where every overly confident mini-boss doesn't even get to finish his first dialogue line, while I'm being careful as hell to not blink at his direction.

Sure there is tough content in the form of hardmode dungeons/trials/arenas. But this game is more and more about adding yet another zone with a ton of questing and story. Wish I could enjoy that. I can respect that a lot are OK with the current system, but I don't understand how they could be against an optional system that gives you more challenge (difficulty mode, veteran quests etc,) ideally we get to replay quests in veteran mode, but I'd understand if that's too much work for ZOS to bother with.

Still remember a couple of the PoF fights where I spent more time dodging than attacking.

MrGhosty wrote: »

GatheredMyst wrote: »

... Pun (not) intended?

While the storylines have thus far been pretty good, I feel like ZOS's commitment to horizontal progression has come at the expense of developing our characters from a PVE Vantage Point.

I'll use my Nightblade as an example. I've had him since Morrowind, so a good amount of time.

...He has all the skills that I really want him to have.
...He has a gearset that i'm very happy with.

There haven't been any new PVE Skill Lines that he can really take advantage of, or any new ways to develop himself within his class or weapons.

If you think about it, since the game has come out, aside from tweaks to existing skill lines, if you've stayed committed to a single character and playstyle, your class hasn't really been able to "progress" all that much within itself, nor has it really "changed" aside from balance adjustments. There hasn't really been anything "new" from a PVE Skill Vantage Point to chew on.

Sure, there's been interesting alterior skills: Like Thievery and Murder, and the Psijics was an interesting addition, but when I think of an MMO Expansion, I think of new and exciting ways to play my character. I think of new abilities to earn and play with. I think of character advancement. And really.. there hasn't been a ton of that.

Coming on four expansions later, i'd think that we would have something much more substantial from that vantage point. But we don't... and I don't understand why this has not been something that ZOS has felt the need to expand on in their game.

Am I alone here?

I think they've erred on the side of ensuring that new players won't be buried under a mountain of "stuff I have to do before I can even hope to actually play the game" Which is how I've always viewed opting for a horizontal progression vs vertical system. There is a lot of fun in trying out new build sets/ideas and I am of the firm opinion that this game becomes a lot more fun when you play multiple characters. You could even recreate the same character and just give them different classes to try out some of the other ways to play. Additionally it can be a lot of fun taking characters through all the stories in a different order to the way they were originally done, a sort of "choose your own adventure" approach.

I think it would be a bad idea to encourage zos to attempt more vertical progression because their current efforts at balance are starting to largely homogenize the classes. The new antiquities system sounds like it has some progress, but we won't know for sure until we can get our hands on it.

If you're looking for ways to develop your character, there are usually multiple builds that make use of different weapon/gear combos so perhaps your solution would be to try those out. The bis meta stuff will always remain, but there is so much out there that is not only viable, but fun to try. If you don't have the skill points to spec into other builds that also gives you more progression for your character, as well as leveling all these other skill lines.

You idea is entirely unacceptable, if I and many like me wanted to play a CYOA graphic adventure there are MANY MUCH BETTER methods to do so than this game. Let us not forget if this game started out that way it would have very likely failed entirely, the premise of this and nearly all MMO's is continued growth.

The problem with your approach is it prevents many who desire upward progression from feeling that satisfaction where as putting it back in allows you to still have your CYOA and me to have my growth. Why people continue to want to limit others in this is frustrating, one way removes choices the other gives both groups what they desire.

And I will say again on "balance," in an MMO with classes designed to different functionalities we will never see "balance" (BTW balance is IMO continually used wrong here because most actually mean parity between the different classes whereas balance would mean the classes harmonize with each other which I do believe needs to be maintained in this game), "balance" (parity) is for FPS . MMOs such as this should be seeking more group interaction (real balance) and not more solo game play / FPS action

you know which is very bad for me?

you all know I think how manyt here is acheivmeents, map progress to get all omplated on 100% yes?
I think you all know how mauch time it will get to get all maxed on single character, even just map with DLC's, chapters etc

now imagine - you are completionist player - so you want to get everything completed, filled on 100% - and so you are stuck to your single character here as I dont think you will get all this done even in few years for few characters, even gl achieving this all after few years on single character, yes there is some thing hard to get and even hard to repeat especially if you dont have time to stay in hard-content active guild which ale have requiments for you to be active nonstop with them

I will add from me I was playign since bet single character nonstop, sometimes get on other character to go on dung with different role only if I had this character done....which ale needed much grind (see many different skillines. nnot only weapon and class)

after 4 years I got bored of playing this single character - class - just for getting everything completed on it and well....all I can say it feels now completly wasted for me as for now (game is going to have 6 years, so around 2 years of not playing my main) as I dont touch this character for anything else than only craft dailys

when I buy sometimes ESO+ it is mainly for dlc dung which yet I dont own and craft bag and so sometimes I buy dlc from someone by paying in gold and here it is for what Im going...I dont bother with single quests, with exploration anymore, doesnt matter on which character Im as I know this is waste of time for me for single character
only thing I will do in new map it is to get few skyshards which will be more on way, easy to get

and thats all, I have lost literally all of my interest into progressing maps, explorations, acheivements just anything which I really liked because I know it will be saved only on this single character on which I was and this wont count anywhere else

and the best thing in it - I coudl play still on my single character IF I was able to just switch class on it
then I could still be completionist player here...but this is just impossible to play single class for years years
if I coudl switch class on my main then I woudl go again to hunt acheivements etc, eventually change also apperance of character via crown token just to have willings, to not be bored of playing this single class over and over just to be able to complete content in 100% and not have it wasted because sudennly? after years I got bored of playing same class nonstop for this

and this is sad whyen you play on your alt because of different class and on this alt you will get not easy achievement instead of on your main..