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I think Arctic Blast/Polar Wind needs a stronger HoT
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Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »thadjarvis wrote: »@ArchMikem if you don't use any GB skills to proc major mending and have the normal health of a tank, it is going to feel quite weak for sure. It seems best designed for a higher health solo build.
May be true that a Sorc with access to only class heals skills have better healing than an Ice Warden self-limiting using only ice heals. But it seems that you are only using one skill line from the class. It would be slightly reasonable to compare to a Sorc that chooses to run no resto and only healing skills from one tree to the OP build. Conjuror only Sorc or Storm only Sorc healing doesn't seems leaps above Ice only Warden.
Tanks don't need good self heals, that's what dedicated Healers are for in group content.
Yeah, sorry, you get no sympathy.
You are legit asking to screw over an entire role just so your snowflake (get it?) build can be a little less sub-optimal than it already is. And you even already have a solution in slotting some of the skills from the healing skill line. Also, might I guess that you are not using Blue Betty aswell? This explains your sustain issues.
Limiting yourself just to one skill line, which is not even intended for the role you are applying it to, comes with consequences. Winter's Embrace is a tanking skill line. You can dislike it all you want but that's what it is. Frost is for tanks until ZOS decides to 180 their direction again. End of the discussion.
Changing a single self heal for Wardens screws over an entire Role. All the other classes mean nothing to you then huh?
With the mere existence of Class passives that increase Frost damage by 10%, and armor sets like Ysgramor's that adds near 400 spell damage to Frost abilities, the "fact" that the Frost damage class tree for Wardens was meant solely for Tanking is a blatant contradiction, and all it proves is ZOS hasn't made a definitive decision about it. If the Frost element was meant for Tanking, sets and passives enhancing it's damage done would be irrelevant, and yet, they exist.
Even still, whether or not Frost was meant for Tanking or Damage Dealing is also irrelevant in this thread. I know Frost damage done sucks, I've accepted that and I deal with it. This thread's singular point was expressing a desire to change the scaling of Arctic Blast's self heal so it benefited DDs. You Tank Wardens can have Polar Wind for all I care.
it's heal already does benefit DDs in pvp.
^
This.
Wardens with high health/high damage in PvP greatly benefit from this heal, and it's very good in that environment.
As complaining on this forum is constantly "PvP whiners always get PvE skills nerfed", I'd like you to take into consideration the other side of the coin. A buff to the healing of this skill would make an already insane heal absolutely crazy in PvP. Wardens would never die. It's already extremely tough to take them down now...this would be overkill.
And save the "I don't care about" X game mode. Zos does NOT separate the two, so you must consider both sides before making suggestions for such changes. That you don't play that mode is of zero consequence. Others do, and this isn't just your personal game, it's an MMO. As much as many may otherwise wish...
You know my Sig says i'm an Alliance Prefect?
1) No, I forum on mobile, so I never see anyone's signature ever. So, no, I don't see your signature.
2) Seeing your alliance rank in your signature doesn't make what I'm saying any less true. Players suggest nerfs or buffs only looking at the side of the game they play and often do not take into consideration that to Zos there is no difference between PvP or PvE. One affects the other.
Your alliance rank makes zero difference in that context and doesn't somehow negate what I'm saying.
3) I'm a 5 star grand overlord. Since alliance rank is somehow an argument decider, I outrank you. 😁Edited by Kel on January 11, 2020 4:51PM0 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »The base heal is ok, especially when low on health because of major mending from the healing tree.
Then the second strong part is the damage + stun (mostly for PvP)
The HOT is just a nice addition in my opinion. If they make that part stronger, they will make someting else weaker and that would be a shame.
Yeah the heal is really good. But like i've said before i really don't think we need it, even including the smaller heal when taking into account these things:- We already have a ton of healing on our class with the Green Balance line, and with restoration staff, making this healing skill completely unnecessary from a balance perspective for DPS who want to use a class stun.
- Tanks don't use arctic blast or even gripping shards to cc atm, preferring polar wind's powerful group healing potential. further making it unnecessary.
- DPS are becoming harder to kill in pvp because of this really strong heal so much so that i see it regularly complained about.
- Heal could be removed to make the skill a better damage and stun skill that gives magicka warden a clear and defining frost damage skill that they want and lack that helps them out in more situations in both pvp and pve.
what you call the second "strong" part, isn't actually that powerful as the stun has a really short radius with a long wind-up time before actually stunning. although i think i understand what you mean, in that the ability does 2-3 very distinct and different things, leading to it becoming quite loaded as a skill.
Why is it that you seem to know nothing about the class you advocate for? And why is it that your advocacy almost always takes the form of nerfs?
"We already have a ton of healing on our class with the Green Balance line, and with restoration staff, making this healing skill completely unnecessary from a balance perspective for DPS who want to use a class stun."
Arctic Wind is the only HP-scaling heal wardens have, so it is not unnecessary FOR TANKS. This skill is made specifically FOR TANKS who have low Magicka pools (and therefore poor healing) to have a decent healing ability. THIS IS NOT A DPS SKILL.
"Tanks don't use arctic blast or even gripping shards to cc atm, preferring polar wind's powerful group healing potential. further making it unnecessary."
Warden Tanks absolutely use Gripping Shards and Artic Blast to CC.
Gripping Shards provides AOE immobilize, snare, a high chance to inflict chilled/minor maim, and HP scaling damage. It is invaluable FOR TANKS, AS DESIGNED.
Arctic Blast provides HP-scaled healing, a chance to inflict chilled/minor maim, and stuns mobs/players who stick too close to the warden. The stun is well designed as it gives tanks, who are often under fire by many mobs or players, some breathing room in the form of an AoE stun. It is invaluable FOR TANKS, AS DESIGNED.
Maybe YOU don't use the skills, as you still seem to be trying to make DPS frost Warden happen. SPOILER: It's not going to happen.
"DPS are becoming harder to kill in pvp because of this really strong heal so much so that i see it regularly complained about."
DPS have low HP pools, so Artic Wind would scale poorly on them. This skill is not the reason DPS are harder to kill.
"Heal could be removed to make the skill a better damage and stun skill that gives magicka warden a clear and defining frost damage skill that they want and lack that helps them out in more situations in both pvp and pve."
That's what this is all about. *facepalm*
Say it with me: THIS IS NOT A DPS ABILITY! IT IS A TANK ABILITY. THE WINTERS EMBRACE TREE IS A TANKING SKILL TREE. Wardens already have a viable DPS tree: Animal Companions. Two DPS trees would be redundant.
PLEASE, stop with your selfish advocacy of making frost DPS a thing so that you can live out your fantasy of being Iceman.
In the end, you will not get your frost DPS and you will only make frost tanking worse.
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Woah there buddy, i have been saying that polar wind needs to stay the same this entire post. And i got information from a class rep saying that no warden tank he knows uses gripping shards in a trial environment which is the hardest content in the game. I think that's pretty good source. If you use those skills, that's great for you. Sorry, if i suggest a change to something you like. You say i know nothing about the class i advocate for where as i think i know a lot seeing as i got a majority of my information from pretty good players and class reps, just because i advocate for a class, does not mean that i think everything should be buffed. I believe changing the arctic blast morph causes minimal damage to tanks while really helping magicka dps out. I'm not trying to destroy tanking on wardens.
No tank is going to be using a CC ability like Gripping Shards in a trial environment. That doesn't mean that Warden tanks aren't using Gripping Shards outside of a trial environment where it would naturally get more use. DK tanks don't use Choking Talons in trials, but that doesn't keep it from being one of the best CC abilities in the game.Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"1 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »The base heal is ok, especially when low on health because of major mending from the healing tree.
Then the second strong part is the damage + stun (mostly for PvP)
The HOT is just a nice addition in my opinion. If they make that part stronger, they will make someting else weaker and that would be a shame.
Yeah the heal is really good. But like i've said before i really don't think we need it, even including the smaller heal when taking into account these things:- We already have a ton of healing on our class with the Green Balance line, and with restoration staff, making this healing skill completely unnecessary from a balance perspective for DPS who want to use a class stun.
- Tanks don't use arctic blast or even gripping shards to cc atm, preferring polar wind's powerful group healing potential. further making it unnecessary.
- DPS are becoming harder to kill in pvp because of this really strong heal so much so that i see it regularly complained about.
- Heal could be removed to make the skill a better damage and stun skill that gives magicka warden a clear and defining frost damage skill that they want and lack that helps them out in more situations in both pvp and pve.
what you call the second "strong" part, isn't actually that powerful as the stun has a really short radius with a long wind-up time before actually stunning. although i think i understand what you mean, in that the ability does 2-3 very distinct and different things, leading to it becoming quite loaded as a skill.
Why is it that you seem to know nothing about the class you advocate for? And why is it that your advocacy almost always takes the form of nerfs?
"We already have a ton of healing on our class with the Green Balance line, and with restoration staff, making this healing skill completely unnecessary from a balance perspective for DPS who want to use a class stun."
Arctic Wind is the only HP-scaling heal wardens have, so it is not unnecessary FOR TANKS. This skill is made specifically FOR TANKS who have low Magicka pools (and therefore poor healing) to have a decent healing ability. THIS IS NOT A DPS SKILL.
"Tanks don't use arctic blast or even gripping shards to cc atm, preferring polar wind's powerful group healing potential. further making it unnecessary."
Warden Tanks absolutely use Gripping Shards and Artic Blast to CC.
Gripping Shards provides AOE immobilize, snare, a high chance to inflict chilled/minor maim, and HP scaling damage. It is invaluable FOR TANKS, AS DESIGNED.
Arctic Blast provides HP-scaled healing, a chance to inflict chilled/minor maim, and stuns mobs/players who stick too close to the warden. The stun is well designed as it gives tanks, who are often under fire by many mobs or players, some breathing room in the form of an AoE stun. It is invaluable FOR TANKS, AS DESIGNED.
Maybe YOU don't use the skills, as you still seem to be trying to make DPS frost Warden happen. SPOILER: It's not going to happen.
"DPS are becoming harder to kill in pvp because of this really strong heal so much so that i see it regularly complained about."
DPS have low HP pools, so Artic Wind would scale poorly on them. This skill is not the reason DPS are harder to kill.
"Heal could be removed to make the skill a better damage and stun skill that gives magicka warden a clear and defining frost damage skill that they want and lack that helps them out in more situations in both pvp and pve."
That's what this is all about. *facepalm*
Say it with me: THIS IS NOT A DPS ABILITY! IT IS A TANK ABILITY. THE WINTERS EMBRACE TREE IS A TANKING SKILL TREE. Wardens already have a viable DPS tree: Animal Companions. Two DPS trees would be redundant.
PLEASE, stop with your selfish advocacy of making frost DPS a thing so that you can live out your fantasy of being Iceman.
In the end, you will not get your frost DPS and you will only make frost tanking worse.
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Woah there buddy, i have been saying that polar wind needs to stay the same this entire post. And i got information from a class rep saying that no warden tank he knows uses gripping shards in a trial environment which is the hardest content in the game. I think that's pretty good source. If you use those skills, that's great for you. Sorry, if i suggest a change to something you like. You say i know nothing about the class i advocate for where as i think i know a lot seeing as i got a majority of my information from pretty good players and class reps, just because i advocate for a class, does not mean that i think everything should be buffed. I believe changing the arctic blast morph causes minimal damage to tanks while really helping magicka dps out. I'm not trying to destroy tanking on wardens.
No tank is going to be using a CC ability like Gripping Shards in a trial environment. That doesn't mean that Warden tanks aren't using Gripping Shards outside of a trial environment where it would naturally get more use. DK tanks don't use Choking Talons in trials, but that doesn't keep it from being one of the best CC abilities in the game.
I thought you might say this, it's quite a fair point, i went back before i edited my post to look at what the class rep said and had to update it to include the specific trial related bit as i didn't pick up the entire sentence. Making my point less sturdy. However, that being said, warden currently has 2 of those aoe cc abilities, where gripping shards has a snare to help further lock adds into place and is instant, but arctic blast has a powerful self heal, i don't believe there is a realistic need for there to be 2 of these types of skills on a tank, along with 2 intended tank morphs for arctic wind (and other skills in the line), where magicka dps has for the most part, been wanting more frost dps representation with a new and unique damage skill, due to the poor damage dealer structuring of the class because of animal companions having 2 support skills, and because of the split themes nature of the class.Edited by ESO_Nightingale on January 12, 2020 1:05AMPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Frostingale
Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/eso_nightingale0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »thadjarvis wrote: »@ArchMikem if you don't use any GB skills to proc major mending and have the normal health of a tank, it is going to feel quite weak for sure. It seems best designed for a higher health solo build.
May be true that a Sorc with access to only class heals skills have better healing than an Ice Warden self-limiting using only ice heals. But it seems that you are only using one skill line from the class. It would be slightly reasonable to compare to a Sorc that chooses to run no resto and only healing skills from one tree to the OP build. Conjuror only Sorc or Storm only Sorc healing doesn't seems leaps above Ice only Warden.
Tanks don't need good self heals, that's what dedicated Healers are for in group content.
Yeah, sorry, you get no sympathy.
You are legit asking to screw over an entire role just so your snowflake (get it?) build can be a little less sub-optimal than it already is. And you even already have a solution in slotting some of the skills from the healing skill line. Also, might I guess that you are not using Blue Betty aswell? This explains your sustain issues.
Limiting yourself just to one skill line, which is not even intended for the role you are applying it to, comes with consequences. Winter's Embrace is a tanking skill line. You can dislike it all you want but that's what it is. Frost is for tanks until ZOS decides to 180 their direction again. End of the discussion.
Changing a single self heal for Wardens screws over an entire Role. All the other classes mean nothing to you then huh?
With the mere existence of Class passives that increase Frost damage by 10%, and armor sets like Ysgramor's that adds near 400 spell damage to Frost abilities, the "fact" that the Frost damage class tree for Wardens was meant solely for Tanking is a blatant contradiction, and all it proves is ZOS hasn't made a definitive decision about it. If the Frost element was meant for Tanking, sets and passives enhancing it's damage done would be irrelevant, and yet, they exist.
Even still, whether or not Frost was meant for Tanking or Damage Dealing is also irrelevant in this thread. I know Frost damage done sucks, I've accepted that and I deal with it. This thread's singular point was expressing a desire to change the scaling of Arctic Blast's self heal so it benefited DDs. You Tank Wardens can have Polar Wind for all I care.
it's heal already does benefit DDs in pvp.
^
This.
Wardens with high health/high damage in PvP greatly benefit from this heal, and it's very good in that environment.
As complaining on this forum is constantly "PvP whiners always get PvE skills nerfed", I'd like you to take into consideration the other side of the coin. A buff to the healing of this skill would make an already insane heal absolutely crazy in PvP. Wardens would never die. It's already extremely tough to take them down now...this would be overkill.
And save the "I don't care about" X game mode. Zos does NOT separate the two, so you must consider both sides before making suggestions for such changes. That you don't play that mode is of zero consequence. Others do, and this isn't just your personal game, it's an MMO. As much as many may otherwise wish...
You know my Sig says i'm an Alliance Prefect?
1) No, I forum on mobile, so I never see anyone's signature ever. So, no, I don't see your signature.
2) Seeing your alliance rank in your signature doesn't make what I'm saying any less true. Players suggest nerfs or buffs only looking at the side of the game they play and often do not take into consideration that to Zos there is no difference between PvP or PvE. One affects the other.
Your alliance rank makes zero difference in that context and doesn't somehow negate what I'm saying.
3) I'm a 5 star grand overlord. Since alliance rank is somehow an argument decider, I outrank you. 😁
This is an argument now? You assumed i dont play PvP based on the skill change i want. I informed you otherwise. (snip).
I also use the forum on mobile at times btw, and i still see signatures.
(edited for baiting)
...we're agreeing to disagree.Edited by ArchMikem on January 11, 2020 8:49PMCP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!0 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's a bit of an overloaded skill on paper, but it tripple dips making it kind of an odd ability.
I think Polar Wind should be the go-to tank morph, if you don't understand why a tank should have a health based heal, I don't know what to tell you, I'm pretty sure every class has at least 1 option at this point. That being said, both morphs doing this is a little redundant and drags this morph down in its power budget. Having Arctic blast focussed as primarly a cc/damage tool should be what its focus.
Requiring 3 ticks to stun on a 5s ability is kinda odd imo too.
1. Make it last 10s instead of 5s.
2. Double the damage tooltip.
3. Remove the healing entirely.
4. 3 hits to stun remains.2 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »It's a bit of an overloaded skill on paper, but it tripple dips making it kind of an odd ability.
I think Polar Wind should be the go-to tank morph, if you don't understand why a tank should have a health based heal, I don't know what to tell you, I'm pretty sure every class has at least 1 option at this point. That being said, both morphs doing this is a little redundant and drags this morph down in its power budget. Having Arctic blast focussed as primarly a cc/damage tool should be what its focus.
Requiring 3 ticks to stun on a 5s ability is kinda odd imo too.
1. Make it last 10s instead of 5s.
2. Double the damage tooltip.
3. Remove the healing entirely.
4. 3 hits to stun remains.
And at the very least, make it's aoe visible at every tick and increase the radius by 1 to 1 and a half meters.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Frostingale
Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/eso_nightingale0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »It's a bit of an overloaded skill on paper, but it tripple dips making it kind of an odd ability.
I think Polar Wind should be the go-to tank morph, if you don't understand why a tank should have a health based heal, I don't know what to tell you, I'm pretty sure every class has at least 1 option at this point. That being said, both morphs doing this is a little redundant and drags this morph down in its power budget. Having Arctic blast focussed as primarly a cc/damage tool should be what its focus.
Requiring 3 ticks to stun on a 5s ability is kinda odd imo too.
1. Make it last 10s instead of 5s.
2. Double the damage tooltip.
3. Remove the healing entirely.
4. 3 hits to stun remains.
In dungeon environment i would probably prefer the dmg morph if i tank on warden (and i don't, but have exp tanking on 3 other classes). Also templars dont have health based heal
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ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MashmalloMan wrote: »It's a bit of an overloaded skill on paper, but it tripple dips making it kind of an odd ability.
I think Polar Wind should be the go-to tank morph, if you don't understand why a tank should have a health based heal, I don't know what to tell you, I'm pretty sure every class has at least 1 option at this point. That being said, both morphs doing this is a little redundant and drags this morph down in its power budget. Having Arctic blast focussed as primarly a cc/damage tool should be what its focus.
Requiring 3 ticks to stun on a 5s ability is kinda odd imo too.
1. Make it last 10s instead of 5s.
2. Double the damage tooltip.
3. Remove the healing entirely.
4. 3 hits to stun remains.
And at the very least, make it's aoe visible at every tick and increase the radius by 1 to 1 and a half meters.
Lemme backtrack from getting heated up there and retry explaining my position, especially since Nightingale is one of the only ones who's been completely civil this entire time I owe you that, your points have been enlightening, I've just been adamant because of the themed build I shoehorned myself into. I just, REALLY loved the idea of an Ice Mage when Warden was first announced. It was a fun alternative to always throwing sparks everywhere on my Sorc.
If I had to lay a single cause behind my problems/issues, it's the Frost Staff. It's bad at damage and it's bad at sustaining with Heavies. I don't normally create my builds with high-ish Recovery, my StamBlade and Healer being exceptions. My MagSorc has 800 recovery cause I can get away with Heavies, pots, and Dark Conversion. Now my Warden I've tried by bumping it's recovery to 1250, yet Frost Heavies don't recover much and skills are expensive. GB heals are expensive, but yes I actually haven't leveled the AoE, I didn't know about Budding Seeds and just now reading it's tooltip, sounds pretty nice and affordable over spamming Enchanted Growth.
Since Arctic Blast is a Health scaled self heal I guess I'd have no problem if I just stacked a bit of health onto my character to make the Heal get stronger. How much health though? Are there any MagWardens here to provide a reference so I can get an idea?CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!1 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@ArchMikem your regen is pretty low for most pvp builds. Sorc's benefit being able to convert resources so most builds can get away with lower regen, most classes build for 1 sustain set + 1 damage set where sorcs can do 2x damage sets if you're comfortable with it. If you aren't using Betty and you aren't getting any sustain from the Green Balance tree, you're definitely going to have a hard time with only 1250 regen.
Arctic Wind heals 25% up front and 5% every second. (Could be mistaken about the 25%, I checked the past 3 updates and it hasn't seemed to change). Max HP increases have the added benefit of also increasing your Shield cap potential, but focussing on increasing your health just for Arctic Wind is probably going to hurt your damage too much if you are still interested in being a damage dealer rather than a health tank. It's just sort of a fruitless avenue to venture down for the small hot. It becomes strong when you consider it's stacked with everything else you have.0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »MashmalloMan wrote: »It's a bit of an overloaded skill on paper, but it tripple dips making it kind of an odd ability.
I think Polar Wind should be the go-to tank morph, if you don't understand why a tank should have a health based heal, I don't know what to tell you, I'm pretty sure every class has at least 1 option at this point. That being said, both morphs doing this is a little redundant and drags this morph down in its power budget. Having Arctic blast focussed as primarly a cc/damage tool should be what its focus.
Requiring 3 ticks to stun on a 5s ability is kinda odd imo too.
1. Make it last 10s instead of 5s.
2. Double the damage tooltip.
3. Remove the healing entirely.
4. 3 hits to stun remains.
And at the very least, make it's aoe visible at every tick and increase the radius by 1 to 1 and a half meters.
Lemme backtrack from getting heated up there and retry explaining my position, especially since Nightingale is one of the only ones who's been completely civil this entire time I owe you that, your points have been enlightening, I've just been adamant because of the themed build I shoehorned myself into. I just, REALLY loved the idea of an Ice Mage when Warden was first announced. It was a fun alternative to always throwing sparks everywhere on my Sorc.
If I had to lay a single cause behind my problems/issues, it's the Frost Staff. It's bad at damage and it's bad at sustaining with Heavies. I don't normally create my builds with high-ish Recovery, my StamBlade and Healer being exceptions. My MagSorc has 800 recovery cause I can get away with Heavies, pots, and Dark Conversion. Now my Warden I've tried by bumping it's recovery to 1250, yet Frost Heavies don't recover much and skills are expensive. GB heals are expensive, but yes I actually haven't leveled the AoE, I didn't know about Budding Seeds and just now reading it's tooltip, sounds pretty nice and affordable over spamming Enchanted Growth.
Since Arctic Blast is a Health scaled self heal I guess I'd have no problem if I just stacked a bit of health onto my character to make the Heal get stronger. How much health though? Are there any MagWardens here to provide a reference so I can get an idea?
Health based heals are definitely not weaker than other heals. They’re just designed differently.
They scale with health and +healing modifiers so are meant as a healer or tanking heals, it’s a way to make sure they aren’t used by high damage players.
About heavies, I find most of them impractical. Melee and resto heavies work okay, but for the most part they aren’t great. Medium attacks are also better to stun with off balance, and don’t return resources. You need a fully charged heavy to get resources back.Edited by Iskiab on January 13, 2020 3:52AMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Joosef_Kivikilpi✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »It's a bit of an overloaded skill on paper, but it tripple dips making it kind of an odd ability.
I think Polar Wind should be the go-to tank morph, if you don't understand why a tank should have a health based heal, I don't know what to tell you, I'm pretty sure every class has at least 1 option at this point. That being said, both morphs doing this is a little redundant and drags this morph down in its power budget. Having Arctic blast focussed as primarly a cc/damage tool should be what its focus.
Requiring 3 ticks to stun on a 5s ability is kinda odd imo too.
1. Make it last 10s instead of 5s.
2. Double the damage tooltip.
3. Remove the healing entirely.
4. 3 hits to stun remains.
EDIT: Keep the healing. Ice Mages suffer already in survivability. It's a nice theme heal.Edited by Joosef_Kivikilpi on January 18, 2020 4:51AM0 -
Joosef_Kivikilpi✭✭✭✭@ArchMikem I just finished completing a Breton Ice Mage tank/healer/dps build. It restored a lot of fun in the game I used to have with how well it works. I also am a frost boi and fell in love with being an Ice Mage on my Nightblade when I discovered the Winterborn set and Iceheart, somehow wrecking kids in Cyrodiil with it.... and then they neutered any proc set to no longer crit, crippling almost all lethality I had as a Frost Mage.
I recently (within the past month) worked on an Ice Mage with my Breton Warden and boy... it owns.
I'll personal message you if would like to receive the build and comments on why it is set up the way it is.0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joosef_Kivikilpi wrote: »MashmalloMan wrote: »It's a bit of an overloaded skill on paper, but it tripple dips making it kind of an odd ability.
I think Polar Wind should be the go-to tank morph, if you don't understand why a tank should have a health based heal, I don't know what to tell you, I'm pretty sure every class has at least 1 option at this point. That being said, both morphs doing this is a little redundant and drags this morph down in its power budget. Having Arctic blast focussed as primarly a cc/damage tool should be what its focus.
Requiring 3 ticks to stun on a 5s ability is kinda odd imo too.
1. Make it last 10s instead of 5s.
2. Double the damage tooltip.
3. Remove the healing entirely.
4. 3 hits to stun remains.
Keep the damage. Ice Mages suffer already from a lack of cold damage abilities.
they said to double the damage tool tip, thus keeping the damage.
however, that being said i want to bring this up again. the stun is quite bad. since we are moving it away from tanking by ditching the heal, it should have a better stun for pvp. one that isn't uncontrollable and defensive based. but If it keeps this inconsistent stun, it's radius needs to be increased by 1 meter at least.
i'm still going to suggest AB4.0:
PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Frostingale
Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/eso_nightingale0 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They should just separate the morphs more and everyone can be happy.
Keep Polar Wind as the Tank Max-Health-scaling heal.
And then make Arctic Blast into a viable damage ability (as its very name suggests!).
You can even drop the stun (or move it to Polar Wind) since it is VERY clunky to use, especially in PvP.0 -
thadjarvis✭✭✭✭I don't use stun version on PvE tank because I grab warden tank mostly for 3DPS (ally heal hugely important) or trials (CC doesn't matter). I don't think many PvE tanks would be mad if Blast changed, but some probably due use it if they run with a healer.
@ESO_Nightingale
Spoiler as slightly OFF-TOPICI know you focus on PvP and thanks for always trying to understand the PvE aspects as best as possible. Much appreciated.
In trials Warden's don't use some of the skills discussed here. That is because CC is essentially deactivated in trials in nearly all cases for things we would want to CC. DK's leave chains on bar often just for the free expedition.
However, CC is incredibly important in Dungeons/Arenas. It's PvE end-game too (eg unchained/trifectas); just less hype.
Generally, tank's control tools are AOE stun, AOE imob, AOE Snare, Chain, Expedition. Health based healing is seperate but mentioned above. Take those 6 things. Each class has a number of them built into the class. It lines up pretty close with the popularity of tanks in dungeon/areans.
DK: 5 all but stun
Warden: 6
Necro: 4.5 (0.5 for beckoning as a chain; missing Expedition)
Sorc: 4 no Snare or chain
NB: 3 no AOE imob/snare or Chain
Temp: 1.5 got a snare and a HP shield not heal; I think that's it
I can explain if needed but Stun, Imob, and Snare functionally interact with mobs different enough that it matters. Having access to as many of those abilities in class is really enhances PvE tanks add control, which is key for speed and no deaths. Also more fun to play tank with more choices to tailor to content.0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thadjarvis wrote: »I don't use stun version on PvE tank because I grab warden tank mostly for 3DPS (ally heal hugely important) or trials (CC doesn't matter). I don't think many PvE tanks would be mad if Blast changed, but some probably due use it if they run with a healer.
@ESO_Nightingale
Spoiler as slightly OFF-TOPICI know you focus on PvP and thanks for always trying to understand the PvE aspects as best as possible. Much appreciated.
In trials Warden's don't use some of the skills discussed here. That is because CC is essentially deactivated in trials in nearly all cases for things we would want to CC. DK's leave chains on bar often just for the free expedition.
However, CC is incredibly important in Dungeons/Arenas. It's PvE end-game too (eg unchained/trifectas); just less hype.
Generally, tank's control tools are AOE stun, AOE imob, AOE Snare, Chain, Expedition. Health based healing is seperate but mentioned above. Take those 6 things. Each class has a number of them built into the class. It lines up pretty close with the popularity of tanks in dungeon/areans.
DK: 5 all but stun
Warden: 6
Necro: 4.5 (0.5 for beckoning as a chain; missing Expedition)
Sorc: 4 no Snare or chain
NB: 3 no AOE imob/snare or Chain
Temp: 1.5 got a snare and a HP shield not heal; I think that's it
I can explain if needed but Stun, Imob, and Snare functionally interact with mobs different enough that it matters. Having access to as many of those abilities in class is really enhances PvE tanks add control, which is key for speed and no deaths. Also more fun to play tank with more choices to tailor to content.
Here is my thinking: does a tank really need a delayed aoe stun when they have access to several forms of CC like you mentioned? I definitely don't think so, considering that dps needs a competent new damage/stun skill, and that people are complaining about warden's healing because of arctic blast's heal. This morph makes the most sense to change and damages tanks as little as possible. While i don't like sacrificing tank power, i see it as completely necessary and a somewhat mitigated loss.Edited by ESO_Nightingale on January 18, 2020 5:27AMPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Frostingale
Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/eso_nightingale0 -
thadjarvis✭✭✭✭Arctic blast is super niche. Eg the only PvE application I can think of in which it would be super useful is on a tanky build trying to solo a vBRP level or two. Worrying about optimized solo play (PvP or PvE) is not really important in an MMO IMO. So, yep agree with you; the skill is could be changed with not many caring.1
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ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thadjarvis wrote: »Arctic blast is super niche. Eg the only PvE application I can think of in which it would be super useful is on a tanky build trying to solo a vBRP level or two. Worrying about optimized solo play (PvP or PvE) is not really important in an MMO IMO. So, yep agree with you; the skill is could be changed with not many caring.
i don't like that we have to sacrifice something, but that is always the cost of change.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Frostingale
Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/eso_nightingale0 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Arctic winds is a tank heal so increasing the up front heal for DD is no the right way to go. If a DD used the skill that’s fine just know that you have better options in green balance skill line. Although it is nice to have when going the ice mage role playing.
Personally, I have seen a few wardens who are not tank us the skill in PVP for the stun. In the heat of the moment their opponent may not notice the smallish heal or pay attention to much of the visual effect and get stunned after a little bit. It should be a snare effect and not a stun after 3 ticks. Or when you are in a large battle it is easy to miss the skill.
Side notes and thoughts
Templar needs a health based heal.
Ice heavies are awkward to use at times same as fire. Resto and lightning are much easier due to the channel vs. the balls of ice or fire. I wish all the staff heavies where channels just different looks for each channel.
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