zvavi wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

idk wrote: »

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ForzaRammer wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

idk wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

idk wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

tbh you can 3 dps, 1 tank all vet dungeons. So idk

True and great for when one forms their own group. I have cleared vet DLCs on HM without a dedicated healer but the fact is some players need a dedicated trinity for many normal dungeons. That is if we are truly being honest.

The fank tanks and healers are lying and TBH the fake tanks I have seen are almost fake DPS so they do not deserve to play out their rouge. After all, if they were a decent player they would easily be able to group with others.

Plain and simple, groups should just kick them

The same standard should be held to DPS who can't hit anything above 25k (which can be done by simply light attacking) - is it logical to apply a double standard to "fake tanks" and "fake healers" if we're not going to hold some sort of standard to DPS?

That is not the same standard. Not even in the same realm.

The basic standard for being a tank is to have a taunt. If they do not have a taunt or do not use it they are not even pretending to be a tank.
The basic standard for being a healer is to have a heal they can use to heal others. Without one they are clearly fake.

Without that they are fake and lying about their abilities.

What you are suggesting much more than basic dps, absurdly so. LOL, many vet trials can be done with that much dps and we are talking about dungeons which most if not all can get by with less.

But again, the simple solution to all this, the smartest solution, is form your own group. A decent enough player can get into a decent guild which makes it easy to form a group (or find groups being formed) and set your own requirements. It is what a great many of us do and allows us to avoid these petty little issues.

If you're a damage dealer and does less damage than a dedicated healer or tank, you're not fulfilling your role and I would almost consider you a fake dd due to that. You're not a DD just because your intentions are there to do damage, you've as much responsibility to fulfill the role as the tank or healer.

But then again, I'm not complaining about what role people que for with the dungeon finder, and neither should others. Deal with what you get, leave the group or make your own. That's the reality people should deal with.

Not really. Not at all.

If they are doing damage they are performing their basic function by definition whereas a fake tank or fake hearer cannot even try to do their most basic function by definition. Lightyears apart.

There is a big difference between being fake and being bad. At least one is honest and the other just lies. When I have seen a fake tank they were pretty bad overall which is probably why they cannot find people to regularly run with.

It’s just you definition. Not commonly accepted fact.
And what is the bare minimum for dps doesn’t matters anyways.

You talk like bare minimum tank should be matched with bare minimum dps, that’s just a load of bs. There are tons of average dps waiting in que.

Bare minimum tank deserve at least average dps just because tanks are rare. And sub 10k dps deserves wiping with fake tank.

Wow, Holy put words into my mouth here. Please to not make such false comments as it is clear I never suggested bare minimum tanks should be paired with bare minimum dps.

However, I will say if someone chooses to have the GF pair them with random players they are asking for the possibility for being paired with bare minimum players. Best way to avoid that is form your own group. Going that direction is why I rarely have an issue with vet DLC
dungeons.

Edit: This is also why decent tanks do not queue solo in the GF. We prefer to run with solid players so we form our own group or join in on them from our raiding guilds. Yes, bad dps is an issue, I do not deny that but a true fake tank is more of an issue as the not only cannot perform the most basic function of their role but they are generally not good dps either.

You talk like form your own group works great. Which is an over-estimation. It’s an improvement not a complete solution.

It requires people be honest to you when you recruit, but about 1/4 of the players respond lie about their dps. Half of liars are complete potatoes.

Only about 1/4 dps i get from group finder are complete potatoes. The improvement is simply not enough.

The above are my observations. And it is not event time numbers.

Here is my take. ‘A person should expect bare minimum from group finder’ is just encouraging adverse selection. Adverse selection will make the average quality worse over time. And it’s already the case i try to avoid these potatoes they actively seeking to leech.

My suggestion stop the adverse selection by actually kicking them. The less payoff they get from leeching, the less like they will attempt leeching in the future.

I mean, but what should be the bare minimum? 5k for normal dungeons, 12k for vet, 25k for vet dlc, 35k for newer vet dlc?

It’s not important. You should ask what is average. Anyone who does less 1/2 of the average deserve to be kicked.

As a person that did many random normals as a tank in the past week, no thanks. average is too low.

I have no problem with kicking more subpar players. Go for it.

I don't kick usually, i don't have the heart to do so, but when i do try to kick (heavy attacking frost staff dds) it fails. Also, how are tanks supposed to do normal dungeons then, solo?

If the majority of the community have the habit of kicking subpar players, chances of vote kick pass would be higher

Some sort of tutorial would make sense but I guess ZoS leaves it up to the community, which isn't a terrible idea in an MMO. It probably wouldn't solve the primary issue: people.

A large number of players just don't know their capability and what content demands: naivete. That's fine and people need to be patient with others just trying to learn and experience how ESO works.

Most choose to either ask for help or reduce group difficulty they sign up for after learning context in which they can contribute and contexts in which they cannot. You know, join something difficult, realize it's too hard; if least capable member most humans would ask for help, leave, or leave learn and come back. That's simple normal human social behavior.

Likely has happened, but I have never seen a question from someone wanting help with damage or build not receive an enthusiastic helpful response on this forum or any discord. ESO community is great and especially compared to other MMO's from what I hear from migrants.

However, there are a few players that don't ask for help, push difficulty beyond their capability hoping strangers would "carry" them, and blame others for not pulling weight when they themselves are not. Tutorials or player to player training won't help much there anyway. That's more in parent, teacher, psychologist's camp.

Maybe a kind of standard indicator to players as to what level of content would be appropriate to try next would be a great idea. ZoS does gate dungeons by level/CP which is sort of a meaningless indicator. I'd agree with that, but wouldn't necessarily hard gate it; just provide information player. Could be like an MMR like BG generated from data ZoS collects on dungeon runs. That could help the majority of players that want to know what content they can do easily, what's difficult but they can contribute, and what is probably just too hard for them in a PUG.