Magicka tanking

Nurable · January 2020

So, let me start by first saying I've been playing this game since beta. I've had a stam tank all the way through, not as my main but a regular - I started on PC, switched to console, had a break then returned to PC to start all over again. I've done all of the vet trials (until the break) with my tank and understand the concept very well.

So, I've posted a lot on here and other forums about how tanking is boring. I still do it, because I like group content. But I find it so boring. I tried a magicka tank out when the frost staves were changed, but didn't really enjoy it.

Anyway, I recently created a Necromancer and thought I'd try out a magicka tank again. I have to say, it's so much fun. I absolutely love it. I wouldn't take it into vet trials or dlc dungeons (yet, anyway).

However, I've been getting flamed for not using a sword and board for the major fracture debuff. I obviously use the major breach debuff from the destruction staff Ele Drain skill and have the crusher enchant on infused frost staves. But, this is a major flaw in magicka tanking that I think Zos should rectify. I was just kicked from a crypt II because of that. There is no issue with the tanking. I don't die, and keep taunts and CC up - I know what tanking is and how to do it.

People say "don't worry, he/she was an idiot" or "if they need that extra 5%, then they have an issue". But, I don't want to get kicked regularly just because of this. This necro nagicka tank is so much fun and I can actually run outworld content by myself.

ZOS, please add major Fracture to either Elemental Drain or on heavy frost attacks. I do understand that for DPS heads, 5% loss is a lot and I'd like to continue tanking "easier" content with a more fun tank.

There is a huge lack of tanks in the game. Allowing fun tanks like this one could go a long way in alleviating this issue

zvavi · January 2020

Caltrops as classless fracture. As mag nb Frost/resto tank, that's what i do

Artim_X · January 2020

Use Unnerving Boneyard to get both major breach and major fracture.

ESO_Nightingale · January 2020

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

So, let me start by first saying I've been playing this game since beta. I've had a stam tank all the way through, not as my main but a regular - I started on PC, switched to console, had a break then returned to PC to start all over again. I've done all of the vet trials (until the break) with my tank and understand the concept very well.

So, I've posted a lot on here and other forums about how tanking is boring. I still do it, because I like group content. But I find it so boring. I tried a magicka tank out when the frost staves were changed, but didn't really enjoy it.

Anyway, I recently created a Necromancer and thought I'd try out a magicka tank again. I have to say, it's so much fun. I absolutely love it. I wouldn't take it into vet trials or dlc dungeons (yet, anyway).

However, I've been getting flamed for not using a sword and board for the major fracture debuff. I obviously use the major breach debuff from the destruction staff Ele Drain skill and have the crusher enchant on infused frost staves. But, this is a major flaw in magicka tanking that I think Zos should rectify. I was just kicked from a crypt II because of that. There is no issue with the tanking. I don't die, and keep taunts and CC up - I know what tanking is and how to do it.

People say "don't worry, he/she was an idiot" or "if they need that extra 5%, then they have an issue". But, I don't want to get kicked regularly just because of this. This necro nagicka tank is so much fun and I can actually run outworld content by myself.

ZOS, please add major Fracture to either Elemental Drain or on heavy frost attacks. I do understand that for DPS heads, 5% loss is a lot and I'd like to continue tanking "easier" content with a more fun tank.

There is a huge lack of tanks in the game. Allowing fun tanks like this one could go a long way in alleviating this issue

if zos should add major fracture to anything, it should be on elemental susceptibility. it's too niche. i covered this in a post a long time ago.

RavenSworn · January 2020

Artim_X wrote: »

Use Unnerving Boneyard to get both major breach and major fracture.

That's what I thought, I was thinking of recommending him to NB but did not Necromancer have a way to deal fracture and breach?

laissezfaire · January 2020

zvavi wrote: »

Caltrops as classless fracture. As mag nb Frost/resto tank, that's what i do

Caltrops gives only like 4 secs of major fracture. That seems a bit unrealistic to keep up 100%

MashmalloMan · January 2020

It sounds like everyone forgot what they mentioned during the last patch/pts cycle when they addressed ward and resolve minor/major buffs being combined as well as resistance changing to armor on sets. They mentioned/eluded to at the time that penetration on sets or/and fracture/breach would be addressed in a similar fashion for a future patch.

So, I really think fracture/breach is going to be combined. They've already shown a willingness for this with the changes I mentioned, but also with Razor Caltrops and Boneyard, both of which are new to the past 6-9 months of the game.

Lastly, they just added Major Brutality and Sorcery on base class abilities that previously acted as unique morph requirements to get both.

So yeah, keep reminding them, but I'm pretty sure that's the path they're heading on. Many abilities and sets will need to be updated. Ransack for example would have both spell/physical pen so Puncture would need a new effect for the morph. Same goes for Wardens Shalks, etc. Thus why they probably held off doing the change last minute in U24 and instead pushed it to U25 or U26.

Artim_X · January 2020

RavenSworn wrote: »

Artim_X wrote: »

Use Unnerving Boneyard to get both major breach and major fracture.

That's what I thought, I was thinking of recommending him to NB but did not Necromancer have a way to deal fracture and breach?

If you're asking if nightblades have source of major breach/fracture in their kit I would suggest using one of the morphs of Mark Target.

thadjarvis · January 2020

Good choice on Necro tank for it. In fact many Necro tanks have builds where they don't even use Sword and Board abilities even though they use the weapons. Heroic slash is the last SnB skill I leave on. I almost never use Puncture as I'd rather slot an additional skill for the group and Inner Fire/Boneyard provide synergies. Combined with Totem, you pump out tons quite a bit of synergies naturally. Secondly if you (I happen to) play a lot with StamDK, MagCro, Wardens, or half decent healers you don't need Major resist debuffs anyway (can switch go self-synergy for Alkosh in those groups).

What you have

Major resists debuff: Boneyard

Minor Maim: Grave Grasp; it's shorter duration than slash but AOE with choice of secondary effect
10% mitigation: Spirit Guardian; no 10% block cost reduction like Defensive Stance but the mitigation is not blocking conditional

"Magika" Chain kinda: Beckoning is not always sufficient but it takes some of the heat off stam if you run Silver Leash. Most places you can LoS group most enemies with beckoning grabbing the couple stragglers. Recall early in ESO no one but DK had chains, and this was common. Problem is that it takes group cooperation which you probably will not get in a PUG today because they expect "dive right in" type pulls.

What you miss

Minor Heroism: no source, but if using Neucrotic Potency your Ulti gen is likely just as high as a non-necro using it depending upon how many corpse skills you use (typically Spirit + Beckening) and adds dying

Mobility while blocking: IMO the biggest downside to dropping sword and board, but learning not to perma block (only heavies) makes this less of an issue. Though some fights most tanks simply have to block and move a lot.

Nurable · January 2020

Oh guys, how did I miss this. You're brilliant, and you've made the magicka tank perfect! Boneyard is a skill I use all of the time for CC.. but I morphed to the wrong one. I must have completely misread it. I don't have to go round poking everything now. Perfect.

Thanks again!!

Nurable · January 2020

Artim_X wrote: »

Use Unnerving Boneyard to get both major breach and major fracture.

Missed it, perfect. Thank you.

Nurable · January 2020

You've freed up a slot too now that I don'tt need ele drain (plus, healers use it all of the time). What else am I missing?

I've slotted with two frost staves (but thinking of dropping one for shock)

1
Inner Rage - taunt
Crushing shock - interupt and a dd for simple adds
unnerving boneyard - GENIUS
Beckoning Armour - Armour Buff + CC
Necrotic Potency + Armour Buff + ulti regen + heal
2
Agony Totem - CC + Damage reduction + damage buff
Free slot
Blockade of Frost - CC
Spiked Bone Shield - Shield
Renewing Undeath / Necrotic Potency - switch depending on healer

Aelorin · January 2020

I would add spell symmetry form the mages guild to barter health for magicka when needed.

Aelorin · January 2020

Also replace the heal with spirit Guardian. 10% damage reduction, plus extra recovery for magicka and stamina from the passieve.

zvavi · January 2020

moltzdc wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Caltrops as classless fracture. As mag nb Frost/resto tank, that's what i do

Caltrops gives only like 4 secs of major fracture. That seems a bit unrealistic to keep up 100%

10 seconds. Razor caltrops morph.

zvavi · January 2020

Artim_X wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

Artim_X wrote: »

Use Unnerving Boneyard to get both major breach and major fracture.

That's what I thought, I was thinking of recommending him to NB but did not Necromancer have a way to deal fracture and breach?

If you're asking if nightblades have source of major breach/fracture in their kit I would suggest using one of the morphs of Mark Target.

Mark target is unreliable as major debuffs source, it means u get 1 target for debuff at all times, which is ***.

Nurable · January 2020

Aelorin wrote: »

Also replace the heal with spirit Guardian. 10% damage reduction, plus extra recovery for magicka and stamina from the passieve.

I thought I'd give Grave Grasp a go, for the CC... but will look into Spirit Guardian too.

Nurable · January 2020

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

Aelorin wrote: »

Also replace the heal with spirit Guardian. 10% damage reduction, plus extra recovery for magicka and stamina from the passieve.

I thought I'd give Grave Grasp a go, for the CC... but will look into Spirit Guardian too.

Ah, my mistake, I misread. Yeah, much better idea. I dropped the heal for the ghost... much better

Iskiab · January 2020

Why not just be a S&B mag tank?

I haven’t tried it but setup a build to give it a go as a magblade. Stack block cost reduction and S&B and Ice staff so you can block costing mag instead of stam. Use a class with an ability that returns stamina over time for your stam sustain.

All tanks are hybrids really, just because an ability costs stamina it doesn’t mean you can’t use it.

thadjarvis · January 2020

If going heavy on mag skills, I'd either
-block with stam (don't get tri-passive) with high recovery or
-block with mag with build resources spent on recovery with HA/Symmetry spam

In general though you probably want to shield/heal/sidestep most damage instead of blocking/dodging as you can't heavy attack for stam and probably would run mag pool higher than stam for more powerful group heals and mag shields.

On which staffs: Frost is obvious choice for block. On other bar, lightning for group damage. I'd also try a Resto too for really leveraging the build for 3 DPS runs. Combat prayer and either Grand Healing (with master staff) or Ward Ally (with BRP staff) would be fun things to try out.

If you really mean Mag tanking as in blocking with mag not just staff tanking it's just tricky. The classic tank goes high mag recovery, mag skills, and stam for block. Not what you want but I would think mag blocking would fit best with a tank that uses mostly stamina skills (Undaunted, Fighters guild utility) with high stam recovery.

thadjarvis · January 2020

Can't edit on this brower. I meant consider putting no resources into mag recovery if blocking with it: Symmetry + HA

Nurable · January 2020

Iskiab wrote: »

Why not just be a S&B mag tank?

I haven’t tried it but setup a build to give it a go as a magblade. Stack block cost reduction and S&B and Ice staff so you can block costing mag instead of stam. Use a class with an ability that returns stamina over time for your stam sustain.

All tanks are hybrids really, just because an ability costs stamina it doesn’t mean you can’t use it.

I have a stam DK classic tank that I take into vet dlc's and trials. Whilst I enjoy doing those on the Stam DK tank - the challenge is there - I get bored doing easier stuff on him. This full magicka tank is for fun whilst actually tanking. And so far, so good. Especially since I was corrected on this thread.

As we don't need to tank the trash mobs running from boss to boss, I have more CC's available to me, that are a lot more fun to use. And I can join in the damage. Nobody seems to mind I'm not taunting the lone skeleton running around. As long as I have the big guys and bosses, everyone is happy.

I made the changes suggested earlier, jumped into the pledges and told the group what was going on - It's a full magicka tank that I'm testing out. They were impressed with it and we did normal Falkreath. I wasn't sure as the adds and bosses hit hard, even on normal. But the tank held his own. The gear isn't perfect - I'm trying grothdar, rattlecage and crafty alfaliq. I don't have the right traits and don't want to waste transmute so will farm the right stuff. But at the end, I should have about 32k health, over 40k magicka and buffed resistances at around 28k. So, health and resistance wise, that's enough for "easier" content. When I do the hard stuff, I'll take the big boy in.

idk · January 2020

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

So, let me start by first saying I've been playing this game since beta. I've had a stam tank all the way through, not as my main but a regular - I started on PC, switched to console, had a break then returned to PC to start all over again. I've done all of the vet trials (until the break) with my tank and understand the concept very well.

So, I've posted a lot on here and other forums about how tanking is boring. I still do it, because I like group content. But I find it so boring. I tried a magicka tank out when the frost staves were changed, but didn't really enjoy it.

Anyway, I recently created a Necromancer and thought I'd try out a magicka tank again. I have to say, it's so much fun. I absolutely love it. I wouldn't take it into vet trials or dlc dungeons (yet, anyway).

However, I've been getting flamed for not using a sword and board for the major fracture debuff. I obviously use the major breach debuff from the destruction staff Ele Drain skill and have the crusher enchant on infused frost staves. But, this is a major flaw in magicka tanking that I think Zos should rectify. I was just kicked from a crypt II because of that. There is no issue with the tanking. I don't die, and keep taunts and CC up - I know what tanking is and how to do it.

People say "don't worry, he/she was an idiot" or "if they need that extra 5%, then they have an issue". But, I don't want to get kicked regularly just because of this. This necro nagicka tank is so much fun and I can actually run outworld content by myself.

ZOS, please add major Fracture to either Elemental Drain or on heavy frost attacks. I do understand that for DPS heads, 5% loss is a lot and I'd like to continue tanking "easier" content with a more fun tank.

There is a huge lack of tanks in the game. Allowing fun tanks like this one could go a long way in alleviating this issue

if zos should add major fracture to anything, it should be on elemental susceptibility. it's too niche. i covered this in a post a long time ago.

This would make more sense though staff tanking would still take a back seat to S&B. Staff is used by tanks running with top competitive raid groups. They do not take the passives as they only use the staff for utility purposes. Those debufs are not enough to change that.

Nurable · January 2020

idk wrote: »

This would make more sense though staff tanking would still take a back seat to S&B. Staff is used by tanks running with top competitive raid groups. They do not take the passives as they only use the staff for utility purposes. Those debufs are not enough to change that.

The game isn't just about the best players and the hardest content. The majority of the available content is easy and doable by all. Tanking is, for the vast majority, boring. Which is why tanks never have to queue for dungeon spots - there aren't many of them.

So, it doesn't matter if staves take a back seat to sword and board for the top competitors. If staves make it more enjoyable for more casual players and more people create tanks, everyone wins (apart from the dude that went completely mental at me in Crypt earlier which was the catalyst for my original post).

This post was just a way for me to create a tank that does tthe basics. Thankfullly, the community helped and for a vet Blackheart Haven, or vet Crypt of Hearts 2, it's perfect.

AcadianPaladin · January 2020

As a healer, I would love to see EleDrain fully support both my mag and stam group members. I'd love to see it debuff both mag and stam attacks and provide both minor magicka steal and something new: minor stamina steal.

Solariken · January 2020

IMO - they should change the synergy on Inner Fire to deal less dmg but inflict AoE Major Fracture + Breach. Boom, problem solved.

Then remove stupid taunt on frost staves.

Nurable · January 2020

Solariken wrote: »

IMO - they should change the synergy on Inner Fire to deal less dmg but inflict AoE Major Fracture + Breach. Boom, problem solved.

Then remove stupid taunt on frost staves.

But then you're relying on others to activate your synergies. Some people just don't bother at all.

I like the heavy attack taunt. Nobody ever used the frost staff anyway, this because a good way for people to use it. Having said that, since they did it, every new player seems to want to use a frost staff

thadjarvis · January 2020

My take

1
Inner Rage - taunt [Required]
Crushing shock - interupt and a dd for simple adds [situational flex]
unnerving boneyard - GENIUS [Required]
Beckoning Armour - Armour Buff + CC [Important on add fights; can go Balance on Bosses]
Necrotic Potency + Armour Buff + ulti regen + heal [some do but I can't give that Ulti up; if I do Deaden Pain for some new to me crazy content sometimes is warranted]
2
Agony Totem - CC + Damage reduction + damage buff [Great skill; though can be removed on bosses without adds]
Free slot
Blockade of Frost - CC [generally required]
Spiked Bone Shield - Shield [If tough boss and mag shield is stronger posssible swap]
Renewing Undeath / Necrotic Potency - switch depending on healer [Renew undead can beat Scythe on higher mag lower health builds; if so I'd use it; tried it in vCR and it worked fine but switched back]

I think you have solid choices
Some are situational: Crushing, Totem

Key Necro Skill I think you should definitely use: Spirit Guardian: HoT (ally), Mitigation, Corpse production for potency

Other flex skills:
-Grave Grasp: may not need immobilize if running stun (Totem) and snare (frost wall) so maybe Empowering Grasp
-Tether: free group HoT; one gives back stam other more functional heal
-Expunge & Modify: for any mechanics in which you need to self-purge
-For damage, I'd go with an AOE skill over Crushing unless interrupt is needed: Blastbones or Skeletal are probably best options bc they also produce a corpse
-Guild skills: necro pretty much covers it all: bone shield good option, Orbs and Altar to be considered if no healer
-If no healer: maybe drop renewing undead and give Resto/Frost staff a go: Combat Pray with Master Resto + Grand Healing or BRP + Ward Ally could be pretty sweet.

Grianasteri · January 2020

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

So, let me start by first saying I've been playing this game since beta. I've had a stam tank all the way through, not as my main but a regular - I started on PC, switched to console, had a break then returned to PC to start all over again. I've done all of the vet trials (until the break) with my tank and understand the concept very well.

So, I've posted a lot on here and other forums about how tanking is boring. I still do it, because I like group content. But I find it so boring. I tried a magicka tank out when the frost staves were changed, but didn't really enjoy it.

Anyway, I recently created a Necromancer and thought I'd try out a magicka tank again. I have to say, it's so much fun. I absolutely love it. I wouldn't take it into vet trials or dlc dungeons (yet, anyway).

However, I've been getting flamed for not using a sword and board for the major fracture debuff. I obviously use the major breach debuff from the destruction staff Ele Drain skill and have the crusher enchant on infused frost staves. But, this is a major flaw in magicka tanking that I think Zos should rectify. I was just kicked from a crypt II because of that. There is no issue with the tanking. I don't die, and keep taunts and CC up - I know what tanking is and how to do it.

People say "don't worry, he/she was an idiot" or "if they need that extra 5%, then they have an issue". But, I don't want to get kicked regularly just because of this. This necro nagicka tank is so much fun and I can actually run outworld content by myself.

ZOS, please add major Fracture to either Elemental Drain or on heavy frost attacks. I do understand that for DPS heads, 5% loss is a lot and I'd like to continue tanking "easier" content with a more fun tank.

There is a huge lack of tanks in the game. Allowing fun tanks like this one could go a long way in alleviating this issue

One of my frustrations is that any tank generally has to access magica, some way more than others, which can be annoying in demanding content.

Its like, here is a role that requires tons of health and stamina, but yeah you cant function without high Mag regen at least, cos some of your fundamental skills are magica based with no stam morph. That issue is ripe for adjustment.

With that said, the reason I am commenting is that my favourite tanks remain my Warden and Necromancer tanks both of which use a frost staff on one bar and Sword & Board on the other bar. Best of both worlds. For blocking I am generally on my S&B, but Frost staff is perfectly capable of block tanking.
.

thadjarvis · January 2020

@Grianasteri

Note that some traditional builds don't consume much magika. Eg a NB MT only really need mag for 2 HoTs and WoE. They can't spam mag skills so you need just enough mag recovery which can be had at base build level (includes potion) plus a couple heavies if having to Dark Cloak a lot. Necro on the other hand can be super mag intensive; I've run mine with zero stam cost skills (including no SnB skills just the weapon).

Max Health, Max Stam, and Mag Recovery is the baseline build but there are other options.

Real simple one is to build all stamina sustain and use Symmetry skill morph.
Another is to build a mostly stamina based tank if you don't want to use mag:
- Bombard/Turn Evil for CC
- Silver Leash for chain
- Vigor/RoP heals
- Stam shield
- Stam synergies (trapping webs)
Templar's eg have to use a mag or stam scaling heal. Some use Vigor.
There are OT's outthere that run as Tank/stamDD hybrid putting out good

Joosef_Kivikilpi · January 2020

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

So, let me start by first saying I've been playing this game since beta. I've had a stam tank all the way through, not as my main but a regular - I started on PC, switched to console, had a break then returned to PC to start all over again. I've done all of the vet trials (until the break) with my tank and understand the concept very well.

So, I've posted a lot on here and other forums about how tanking is boring. I still do it, because I like group content. But I find it so boring. I tried a magicka tank out when the frost staves were changed, but didn't really enjoy it.

Anyway, I recently created a Necromancer and thought I'd try out a magicka tank again. I have to say, it's so much fun. I absolutely love it. I wouldn't take it into vet trials or dlc dungeons (yet, anyway).

However, I've been getting flamed for not using a sword and board for the major fracture debuff. I obviously use the major breach debuff from the destruction staff Ele Drain skill and have the crusher enchant on infused frost staves. But, this is a major flaw in magicka tanking that I think Zos should rectify. I was just kicked from a crypt II because of that. There is no issue with the tanking. I don't die, and keep taunts and CC up - I know what tanking is and how to do it.

People say "don't worry, he/she was an idiot" or "if they need that extra 5%, then they have an issue". But, I don't want to get kicked regularly just because of this. This necro nagicka tank is so much fun and I can actually run outworld content by myself.

ZOS, please add major Fracture to either Elemental Drain or on heavy frost attacks. I do understand that for DPS heads, 5% loss is a lot and I'd like to continue tanking "easier" content with a more fun tank.

There is a huge lack of tanks in the game. Allowing fun tanks like this one could go a long way in alleviating this issue

Ummm... Necromancer Boneyard applies both debuffs for the panzy DPSers who are complaining.