Negative Reflections on the Past Year of ESO

GrumpyDuckling · January 2020

My ESO Plus 1 year subscription just expired, and as a result I have been reflecting on my ESO experience from this past year. Overall, it wasn't as enjoyable as I had hoped for, especially from a game that I really go out of my way to try to love. I am only speaking to my experience. Here are some lowlights:

Abysmal Loading Screens (Extrapolated by Dark Brotherhood Content)
ESO is already plagued by long loading screens, but the experience got far worse when I started doing Dark Brotherhood Assassination quests to raise the skill line on one of my characters. One simple assassination quest results in seven loading screens just to get the quest, complete it, and hand it in. I literally spent more time sitting in loading screens while raising this skill line than I spent actually playing the game. That's pathetic.

Racial Changes (Ignoring Lore, In-Game Dialogue, and Players)
The silence from the develops regarding player feedback on Wood Elf (stealth) and Argonian (poison) racial changes was disheartening. The developers making these decisions ignored lore, ignored in-game quest dialogue, and worst of all, ignored players who pointed out continuity errors and gave evidence disproving the decisions that were pushed to live (and are still live, today). This was a display of true colors from the people making decisions regarding how little they value accurate player feedback.

"Play the way that you want."
I am annoyed by how much I heard and read this mantra over the past year because it is necessary for one to adopt an extremely narrow lens to truly see the game as "play the way that you want." From stamina/magicka divide, to class skill line restrictions, to attribute scaling, to overdependence on sets in building a character, it's a lie to say that ESO is "play the way that you want."

PVP Performance
Another year, same problems. Sometimes it's just not even worth trying to play.

2019 Patch Notes
This year taught me not to get excited about patch notes because so many of the changes felt like a step backwards as it pertains to fun. This was the year of homogenization and skills that inexplicably changed numerous times within a PTS cycle -- making it feel like stuff was just being randomly thrown at a wall (see: frequent changes to Nightblade's Grim Focus and Incap). Most of the patch notes arrivals were synonymous with the feeling of 'okay, which part of the game is becoming less fun today?'

Guyle · January 2020

On the load screen issue, it really is nuts how many of them we have to jump through sometimes. I got dc'd during a vMoL hm the other night, and I spent 4 mins in a loading screen to get back into the game (after having to wait 2 mins for the game to stop telling me my account was already logged in, and 2 minutes to get to character select), another 4 minute load screen taking the portal from the entrance to the open area with the big pull 2 doors away from Rakkhat, which meant another 4 minute load screen to get to the rest of my group who had to wait for me. Thank rngesus the game actually put me back in vMoL when I logged back in, otherwise it would've meant another one of those load screens. But yeah, more than 15 minutes in load screens just to get back to my group. There's got to be a better way of doing this stuff. I used to get better load times on my pos laptop with its integrated graphics card 2 years ago then I do on my much better PC now after all the "optimization" fixes they have done to the game since then.

OG_Kaveman · January 2020

Obligatory "Play the way that you want." Doesn't mean be optimal playing the way you want.

JinMori · January 2020

I agree with a lot of things, but....

The play how you want thing is just marketing, the truth is that if you want a game where you do not feel like you are playing the same setup over and over, some of them will just perform better.

With diversity of build also comes different performance, and you can reduce the gap, but in no way will a defensive set allow you to do dps just as well.

Nanfoodle · January 2020

Been playing 7 months now and I have been having so much fun playing the game, that I have 496CP. How dare they make me lose track of time. Darn you awesome game developers. Sorry that's the best I got.

GrumpyDuckling · January 2020

Nanfoodle wrote: »

Been playing 7 months now and I have been having so much fun playing the game, that I have 496CP. How dare they make me lose track of time. Darn you awesome game developers. Sorry that's the best I got.

Glad that you're having a good time. I hope it continues for years to come!

GrumpyDuckling · January 2020

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Obligatory "Play the way that you want." Doesn't mean be optimal playing the way you want.

And unfortunately not being "optimal" can be the difference between whether or not you a drag on your team and complete content or not.

Jaxious79 · January 2020

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

My ESO Plus 1 year subscription just expired, and as a result I have been reflecting on my ESO experience from this past year. Overall, it wasn't as enjoyable as I had hoped for, especially from a game that I really go out of my way to try to love. I am only speaking to my experience. Here are some lowlights:

Abysmal Loading Screens (Extrapolated by Dark Brotherhood Content)
ESO is already plagued by long loading screens, but the experience got far worse when I started doing Dark Brotherhood Assassination quests to raise the skill line on one of my characters. One simple assassination quest results in seven loading screens just to get the quest, complete it, and hand it in. I literally spent more time sitting in loading screens while raising this skill line than I spent actually playing the game. That's pathetic.

Racial Changes (Ignoring Lore, In-Game Dialogue, and Players)
The silence from the develops regarding player feedback on Wood Elf (stealth) and Argonian (poison) racial changes was disheartening. The developers making these decisions ignored lore, ignored in-game quest dialogue, and worst of all, ignored players who pointed out continuity errors and gave evidence disproving the decisions that were pushed to live (and are still live, today). This was a display of true colors from the people making decisions regarding how little they value accurate player feedback.

"Play the way that you want."
I am annoyed by how much I heard and read this mantra over the past year because it is necessary for one to adopt an extremely narrow lens to truly see the game as "play the way that you want." From stamina/magicka divide, to class skill line restrictions, to attribute scaling, to overdependence on sets in building a character, it's a lie to say that ESO is "play the way that you want."

PVP Performance
Another year, same problems. Sometimes it's just not even worth trying to play.

2019 Patch Notes
This year taught me not to get excited about patch notes because so many of the changes felt like a step backwards as it pertains to fun. This was the year of homogenization and skills that inexplicably changed numerous times within a PTS cycle -- making it feel like stuff was just being randomly thrown at a wall (see: frequent changes to Nightblade's Grim Focus and Incap). Most of the patch notes arrivals were synonymous with the feeling of 'okay, which part of the game is becoming less fun today?'

Man you just sound like some Grumpy duckling or something.

My advice is dont get so worked up over it, it's a video game. It's a hobby you should never feel forced or have to try to enjoy a hobby if you find yourself in that spot it's a sign whatever hobby you are trying to enjoy has passed you by.

I've played every mmorpg since EQ I've never felt this way towards any of them, some like lotro and swtor I have 1000s of hours in. When they start losing my interest I move on. Sometimes I go back sometimes not.

Go try another game at some point eso might draw you back in it's all good no need to reflect on it and dwell on only the negatives.

GrumpyDuckling · January 2020

Jaxious79 wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

My ESO Plus 1 year subscription just expired, and as a result I have been reflecting on my ESO experience from this past year. Overall, it wasn't as enjoyable as I had hoped for, especially from a game that I really go out of my way to try to love. I am only speaking to my experience. Here are some lowlights:

Abysmal Loading Screens (Extrapolated by Dark Brotherhood Content)
ESO is already plagued by long loading screens, but the experience got far worse when I started doing Dark Brotherhood Assassination quests to raise the skill line on one of my characters. One simple assassination quest results in seven loading screens just to get the quest, complete it, and hand it in. I literally spent more time sitting in loading screens while raising this skill line than I spent actually playing the game. That's pathetic.

Racial Changes (Ignoring Lore, In-Game Dialogue, and Players)
The silence from the develops regarding player feedback on Wood Elf (stealth) and Argonian (poison) racial changes was disheartening. The developers making these decisions ignored lore, ignored in-game quest dialogue, and worst of all, ignored players who pointed out continuity errors and gave evidence disproving the decisions that were pushed to live (and are still live, today). This was a display of true colors from the people making decisions regarding how little they value accurate player feedback.

"Play the way that you want."
I am annoyed by how much I heard and read this mantra over the past year because it is necessary for one to adopt an extremely narrow lens to truly see the game as "play the way that you want." From stamina/magicka divide, to class skill line restrictions, to attribute scaling, to overdependence on sets in building a character, it's a lie to say that ESO is "play the way that you want."

PVP Performance
Another year, same problems. Sometimes it's just not even worth trying to play.

2019 Patch Notes
This year taught me not to get excited about patch notes because so many of the changes felt like a step backwards as it pertains to fun. This was the year of homogenization and skills that inexplicably changed numerous times within a PTS cycle -- making it feel like stuff was just being randomly thrown at a wall (see: frequent changes to Nightblade's Grim Focus and Incap). Most of the patch notes arrivals were synonymous with the feeling of 'okay, which part of the game is becoming less fun today?'

Man you just sound like some Grumpy duckling or something.

My advice is dont get so worked up over it, it's a video game. It's a hobby you should never feel forced or have to try to enjoy a hobby if you find yourself in that spot it's a sign whatever hobby you are trying to enjoy has passed you by.

I've played every mmorpg since EQ I've never felt this way towards any of them, some like lotro and swtor I have 1000s of hours in. When they start losing my interest I move on. Sometimes I go back sometimes not.

Go try another game at some point eso might draw you back in it's all good no need to reflect on it and dwell on only the negatives.

I take a good amount of breaks from ESO (months at a time). I play other games like Skyrim, Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, and NBA 2K19. This reflection is simply how I felt about ESO in 2019 -- a game that I invested a lot of time in. The negatives stood out in my reflection, so I wrote about them because I care enough to analyze experiences that detract from a game that I see so much potential in.

Cundu_Ertur · January 2020

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Racial Changes (Ignoring Lore, In-Game Dialogue, and Players)
The silence from the develops regarding player feedback on Wood Elf (stealth) and Argonian (poison) racial changes was disheartening. The developers making these decisions ignored lore, ignored in-game quest dialogue, and worst of all, ignored players who pointed out continuity errors and gave evidence disproving the decisions that were pushed to live (and are still live, today). This was a display of true colors from the people making decisions regarding how little they value accurate player feedback.

The real kick in the teeth was when they got on one of their little video segments complimenting themselves on how awesomely lore-compliant all of their changes were. They just lock a couple of inconvenient threads for no real reason and keep patting themselves on the back. Yet the problems remain.

GrumpyDuckling · January 2020

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Racial Changes (Ignoring Lore, In-Game Dialogue, and Players)
The silence from the develops regarding player feedback on Wood Elf (stealth) and Argonian (poison) racial changes was disheartening. The developers making these decisions ignored lore, ignored in-game quest dialogue, and worst of all, ignored players who pointed out continuity errors and gave evidence disproving the decisions that were pushed to live (and are still live, today). This was a display of true colors from the people making decisions regarding how little they value accurate player feedback.

The real kick in the teeth was when they got on one of their little video segments complimenting themselves on how awesomely lore-compliant all of their changes were.

I wasn't even aware of that, do you remember which video? I'd love to watch it.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · January 2020

The saying " play the way you want" has been misrepresented by players ever since launch. ZoS never said everything would be "good" just that you can do it if you "want"

wild_kmacdb16_ESO · January 2020

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Obligatory "Play the way that you want." Doesn't mean be optimal playing the way you want.

Sounds kind of like a copout to me. You can technically play any game the way you want to a degree; making it a marketing bulletpoint should mean something more than that.

Ratzkifal · January 2020

On the bright side, ZOS seems to have finally fixed the activity finder. It's not perfect yet, but the first promise they gave and actually delivered on in a meaningful way - although be it a few years too late.

Criticise where criticism is valid, but don't forget to also give credit where credit is due.

Also, I still haven't forgiven them the Bosmer, Altmer and Argonian changes that break the lore and tradition of this game and the legacy of the franchise

Jolipinator · January 2020

I can't believe 2019 is finally over. I thought it would dragon forever.

MerguezMan · January 2020

I agree with almost everything, but this:

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

it's a lie to say that ESO is "play the way that you want."

This is a common mistake, an overinterpretation of a commercial gimmick.

If I tell you "play Chess the way you want", indeed you can be standing, sit, drink while playing, etc. You can even tune the looks of the table, but at no point you would expect to change the rules, or the number of Queens on the plate, for instance.

So, when you hear "Play ESO the way you want", yes, you CAN play the way you want, but it's still ESO.

svartorn · January 2020

Load screens, bugs and performance issues have been issues for years now.

This will be the year I either stop or continue, depending on how the performance updates work.

LucyferLightbringer · January 2020

The class balance changes in 2019 have proven beyond any douubt tha ZOS has absolutely no idea what they are doing. Whole year of huge sweeping changes forcing people to regrind and killing the fun, just to return back to where we were in the end.

Gnortranermara · January 2020

Insightful, Agree, Awesome...... CAN'T DECIDE!!

Adding to your "play how you want" paragraph:

Frost tanking and Frost DPS are both severely gorked, despite being trivially easy to fix.

A_Silverius · January 2020

Bosmer Racial Balance Changes for Update 21:

Bosmers after Racial Balance Changes for Update 21:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNj67kwWBoQ

Kel · January 2020

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Most of the patch notes arrivals were synonymous with the feeling of 'okay, which part of the game is becoming less fun today?'

I felt this to the very core of my soul.

Really hoping they can turn this around.
Dragonknights that throw rocks, cast times, Tanks and Healers running wild in PvP...having 8k weapon damage and not being able to get someone's health down below 50%, so fun....🙄

Yep, definitely felt that...

Starlock · January 2020

What has really killed the game for me is the ramp up in predatory monetization we saw over the past year.

I'll be making a decision on whether or not to cancel my sub during the chapter reveal next week. It's not that I don't like the game. In terms of producing good content, the team behind ESO does an outstanding job with the world, lore, story, and art. Until this past year, that quality has made me look the other way and allow ESO to be an exception to me boycotting games that utilize predatory monetization. As a result of the increasingly predatory monetization, I've already stopped buying crown packs to "support the game." The main reason why I subscribe is also to "support the game." The simple fact is this game never needed my monetary support and certainly doesn't need it now. And by "supporting the game" I'm being complicit in a monetization system I find ethically bankrupt and outright deplorable. When there are other game publishers who legitimately need and deserve my financial support - ones who just publish gosh darned games without removing content to repackage and sell it back to me at outrageous prices - it's pretty clear where my priorities should be.

Which reminds me, I gotta do a second playthrough of Outer Worlds...

CMDR_Un1k0rn · January 2020

MerguezMan wrote: »

I agree with almost everything, but this:

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

it's a lie to say that ESO is "play the way that you want."

This is a common mistake, an overinterpretation of a commercial gimmick.

If I tell you "play Chess the way you want", indeed you can be standing, sit, drink while playing, etc. You can even tune the looks of the table, but at no point you would expect to change the rules, or the number of Queens on the plate, for instance.

So, when you hear "Play ESO the way you want", yes, you CAN play the way you want, but it's still ESO.

The Elite Dangerous community could learn a lot from this.

A lot of communities could actually.

Never understood why people cling onto the words of game devs' as if it were gospel. I just don't see that happening elsewhere.

FierceSam · January 2020

Hey Grumpy,

I hear what you’re saying, but it would be interesting to know what you found worthwhile as a comparison.

I found I eventually liked the dragons (although they’re still buggy af on occasion), found Southern Elsweyr way better than boring Northern Elsweyr, liked the look of Scalebreaker dungeons, but not their content.

I find myself thinking ‘were Necros only introduced this summer?’, I kind of like them

I like the notion that you should be able to create a viable tank, healer, dd and PvP character from any Class and that they would each play slightly differently. I get the attempt to prevent any one race or class being able to dominate in PvP (or to a lesser extent PvE) because that would clearly be a disaster. And I get that this will always be a work in progress because players are more agile than developers and there are many, many more of them. This, to me, is what both ‘play your way’ and balance is all about, enabling you to be the baddest character you can imagine without making any one race or class be dominant.

To me the thing that separate ESO from any other game is that it’s the game me and my friends play.. and that counts for a hell of a lot more than being pi***d with loading screens (which are a f-ing abomination to be sure).

Hope you find more to enjoy in gaming in 2020 whether it’s in ESO or beyond.

Gnortranermara · January 2020

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Obligatory "Play the way that you want." Doesn't mean be optimal playing the way you want.

Nobody ever said that it does. Fixing these issues would not require making these races/weapons/whatever "optimal", just SENSIBLE. That's all anyone has asked for. There's a HUGE gap between "optimal" and blatantly senseless decisions like wasting Altmer's "utility" passive with 100% useless off-stat regen that has NO utility, removing Bosmer stealth, trashing Argonians, massively overloading Orc, making it disruptive for Frost DPS to engage the CORE GAME MECHANIC of heavy attacking, making Frost tanks drop block in order to use the weapon taunt, and so on and so on. Of course everything can't be "optimal", but that doesn't mean fun alternative builds should be intentionally rendered sub-par.

Finedaible · January 2020

Starlock wrote: »

What has really killed the game for me is the ramp up in predatory monetization we saw over the past year.

I'll be making a decision on whether or not to cancel my sub during the chapter reveal next week. It's not that I don't like the game. In terms of producing good content, the team behind ESO does an outstanding job with the world, lore, story, and art. Until this past year, that quality has made me look the other way and allow ESO to be an exception to me boycotting games that utilize predatory monetization. As a result of the increasingly predatory monetization, I've already stopped buying crown packs to "support the game." The main reason why I subscribe is also to "support the game." The simple fact is this game never needed my monetary support and certainly doesn't need it now. And by "supporting the game" I'm being complicit in a monetization system I find ethically bankrupt and outright deplorable. When there are other game publishers who legitimately need and deserve my financial support - ones who just publish gosh darned games without removing content to repackage and sell it back to me at outrageous prices - it's pretty clear where my priorities should be.

Which reminds me, I gotta do a second playthrough of Outer Worlds...

^ This. 2019 felt like ESO has been more about how they can monetize "rewards" for their slot machine instead of focusing on creating fun, quality, and rewarding game-play. It doesn't help that in 2019 they stripped any semblance of class identity in their quest for "balance" and "standardization"...

Tandor · January 2020

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

"Play the way that you want."
I am annoyed by how much I heard and read this mantra over the past year because it is necessary for one to adopt an extremely narrow lens to truly see the game as "play the way that you want." From stamina/magicka divide, to class skill line restrictions, to attribute scaling, to overdependence on sets in building a character, it's a lie to say that ESO is "play the way that you want."

If you look at the back of the original ESO box, you'll see:

"PLAY THE WAY YOU LIKE
Battle, craft, fish, steal, siege or explore. The choice is yours to make in a persistent Elder Scrolls world."

By the release of One Tamriel, that wording had become:

"PLAY THE WAY YOU LIKE
Adventure alone or together with friends. The choice is yours to make."

It wasn't originally intended to mean "all races, classes and builds will be equally viable in all aspects of the game"

However, it is nonetheless true that you can play the way that you want, provided you appreciate that as in any game if you are focusing on competitive gameplay then there will be flavour of the month templates that you will need to follow and switch from time to time as all online games evolve over time.

Kesstryl · January 2020

Tandor wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

"Play the way that you want."
I am annoyed by how much I heard and read this mantra over the past year because it is necessary for one to adopt an extremely narrow lens to truly see the game as "play the way that you want." From stamina/magicka divide, to class skill line restrictions, to attribute scaling, to overdependence on sets in building a character, it's a lie to say that ESO is "play the way that you want."

If you look at the back of the original ESO box, you'll see:

"PLAY THE WAY YOU LIKE
Battle, craft, fish, steal, siege or explore. The choice is yours to make in a persistent Elder Scrolls world."

By the release of One Tamriel, that wording had become:

"PLAY THE WAY YOU LIKE
Adventure alone or together with friends. The choice is yours to make."

It wasn't originally intended to mean "all races, classes and builds will be equally viable in all aspects of the game"

However, it is nonetheless true that you can play the way that you want, provided you appreciate that as in any game if you are focusing on competitive gameplay then there will be flavour of the month templates that you will need to follow and switch from time to time as all online games evolve over time.

I don't care about this argument anymore, it's been stated for the umpteenth time now. I care about what is being promised now, not what the back of a box said 5 years ago.

SirLeeMinion · January 2020

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Most of the patch notes arrivals were synonymous with the feeling of 'okay, which part of the game is becoming less fun today?'

This has been mentioned by numerous people in several threads over the past two years. For me, at least, it's the core reason I stopped putting money into the game last summer. Your do your research, find a race / class / gear combo that allows you to tackle difficult content. Then, they pull the rug out from underneath it. Rinse and repeat. So this year they have promised to look at pets. I wonder how that will turn out... No, I already know.

GrumpyDuckling · January 2020

FierceSam wrote: »

To me the thing that separate ESO from any other game is that it’s the game me and my friends play.. and that counts for a hell of a lot more than being pi***d with loading screens (which are a f-ing abomination to be sure).

Hey FierceSam,

You are absolutely right about friends in ESO. The game is so much more enhanced when playing with friends. Unfortunately, things like the loading screens and performance issues make ESO a hard sell to keep friends interested. I had close friends who just had ESO fade from their interest because long load screens, PVP crashing and lag, and how much setup work is required to enjoy something simple like a DLC dungeon just took their toll on them.

ESO often isn't a game that you can just pop on and enjoy for like 45 minutes with friends. Heck, sometimes it took 45 minutes for everyone just to get their characters ready for dungeon runs (moving gear from one character to another, enduring loading screens, collecting daily quests, repairing armor, making space in inventory for items, getting food buffs, setting up proper skills and coordinating roles, respecing if need be, and then after all of that finding a 4th person who wasn't lying about their role). It's just so... messy... and I could tell my friends were getting fatigued with how clunky everything was. I don't blame my friends, especially when we all have so much going on in our lives. Time is limited, and dealing with slow/poor performance and setup simply wasn't worth it to them. Plug and play is an entirely different issue, but it is one that is made worse by loading screens, crashing, queuing in PVP, etc.