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All PvP should be NO CP
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NeillMcAttack✭✭✭✭✭
✭No cp is dead, so I believe that a lot of players prefer there cp that they earned and can make builds the way they like
Non-CP is dead because the game's population can't support two active campaigns at the same time. Earlier this year, and especially as far back as a year ago or more, non-CP would get pretty active during prime time. It's because there's not a guarantee of pop, that it's now dead. People don't want to play in a dead campaign, no matter the balance or performance.
That sucks for NA, on EU during prime time both campaigns are pop locked for all 3 factions. The big difference between the two being that the CP campaign is akin to a power point presentation of what PvP could be, and no-CP is what has been presented in the power point presentation but fully functional.
My thoughts on this topic are that if CP PvP is to continue to not be playable with the numbers players and devs want, then the devs should absolutely balance for No-CP over CP. CP just doesn’t work, and one of the main causes for the lag is the CP that players defend. So it’s only sensible to focus on balancing the one that actually works over the other.
Also, implement an automatic No-CP duelling toggle!!
PC EU - NoCP PvP, is real PvPTiidehunter Nord StamDK EP PvP MainLegion Commander Tresdin Stamplar DC PvE MainSephirith Altmer MagPlar EP Gondar the Bounty Hunter Khajiit StamBlade DCThe Dirge Redguard StamNecro EP Disruptor Stormcrafter Nord StamSorc ADLone Druid Bosmer Stam Warden EP Necro-Phos Argonian MagBlade AD@ McAttack in gamePlayed since beta, and then on console at release, until the game became unplayable on console.3 -
MajBludd✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why do people always try to force others to do what they want? OP, stfu and go play no cp.
Let those that want to use their cps, use them. Just because your camp is virtually dead doesnt mean you ruin other people's fun.14 -
Joinovikova✭✭✭✭I don’t have problem with cp pvp no one force you to play cp. but ZOS should focus balance non CP and not make changes like reduce shield size and increase cost because it was op in cp and destroy non cp pvp ...3
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Ri_Khan✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sounds like a too lazy to grind problem. I'm always curious what CP rank the folks that call for it to be done away with are.
My guess is they're <300.1 -
The_Old_Goat✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Old_Goat wrote: »You shouldn't try to limit pvp play for other people. If you don't enjoy the cp pvp, simply don't play it.
Except keeping CP is affecting non-CP, and vice versa, because balance changes are always taken into account with one over the other, not both.
People have been talking about players stacking well beyond 40-50k health in PvP for a while, when that's only ever an issue in CP. Non-CP, you can barely have above 20-21k without intentionally building into health. If Zenimax were to blanket reduce health in PvP, non-CP would become completely unplayable.
Both CP and non-CP are operating in two distinct extremes, and the game cannot be balanced properly when they are. If we want to see proper balance in PvP, one of them has to go. Personally, I'd prefer non-CP to stay since I think it is closer to proper balance, but ultimately, it doesn't matter, either way will end up at the same destination.
These balance issues are from pve vs pvp, not cp vs non cp. Also the complaints about how the non cp campaigns are dead, are because of the game performance and combat changes in Cyrodiil, not because the CP campaign is stealing all your players. A lot of people have quit playing pvp because of the performance and those combat changes, those of us that are left are going where the bigger and better fights are, which happens to be in the cp campaign.1 -
Alienoutlaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭the nerfs and imbalance has come from to many ppl complaining about skills.sets and class's they dont have any experience of playing, just simply die to alot and refuse to take an inward look and except that maybe they are the flawed component in any build, cp or no cp these knee jerk changes affect us all, that said there is a choice and neither camp has a right or valid reason to take that choice any from another player. if you want "balance" quit complaining about things you dont understand just because the cool guy said it1 -
MerguezMan✭✭✭✭Why do people always try to force others to do what they want? OP, stfu and go play no cp.
Let those that want to use their cps, use them. Just because your camp is virtually dead doesnt mean you ruin other people's fun.
Well, the OP's issue is probably not about playing CP pvp, but more around what the existence of CP pvp implies for next updates and balance changes.
From previous updates:
- CP have been frozen for a year, and we have no clue yet what they would become. The dev team says they're "reviewing" the system, which means they are aware that increasing further CP cap would create imbalances in gameplay.
- many skills and sets have been nerfed, some into shadow versions of themselves (60% dot reduction, dragon scales can't reverb projectiles, Earthgore won't heal groups, etc.). We all adapt, but you can easily understand that once you've played with such powerful options, the current state of the game has a bitter sweet taste.
- we don't really know if the changes from previous updates come from dev team's own decisions or from player feedback.
Assuming player feedback has heavy impact on decisions, and considering that CPs only push further damage and sustain, which is the main complaint feedback about pvp (scroll forums, and check either "I can't kill player because he has too much health/health regen/healing" or "I get killed too easily, this skill/set/thing is dealing too much damage"), removing CPs from pvp would limit the complaints and the scale of future possible (nerf) balance changes. This could also allow to unlock the CP cap on pve side (and the main remaining complaint would be "the pve game is way too easy at 2000+ CP"
).
About "fun", well... you may have fun one-shotting newbies in cp-enabled Cyrodiil now, but imagine a Cyrodiil populated with CP 5000+ players, that can one-shot npcs and players under 3000 CP, solo take keeps, and are all almost unkillable... is it still fun ? Do you think "new" players (ie. under 3000 CP) would also enjoy such thing ?
You may not agree with that, but remind it when you'll read the next nerf notes.Edited by MerguezMan on January 9, 2020 1:42PM1 -
The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭MerguezMan wrote: »Why do people always try to force others to do what they want? OP, stfu and go play no cp.
Let those that want to use their cps, use them. Just because your camp is virtually dead doesnt mean you ruin other people's fun.
Well, the OP's issue is probably not about playing CP pvp, but more around what the existence of CP pvp implies for next updates and balance changes.
From previous updates:
- CP have been frozen for a year, and we have no clue yet what they would become. The dev team says they're "reviewing" the system, which means they are aware that increasing further CP cap would create imbalances in gameplay.
- many skills and sets have been nerfed, some into shadow versions of themselves (60% dot reduction, dragon scales can't reverb projectiles, Earthgore won't heal groups, etc.). We all adapt, but you can easily understand that once you've played with such powerful options, the current state of the game has a bitter sweet taste.
- we don't really know if the changes from previous updates come from dev team's own decisions or from player feedback.
Assuming player feedback has heavy impact on decisions, and considering that CPs only push further damage and sustain, which is the main complaint feedback about pvp (scroll forums, and check either "I can't kill player because he has too much health/health regen/healing" or "I get killed too easily, this skill/set/thing is dealing too much damage"), removing CPs from pvp would limit the complaints and the scale of future possible (nerf) balance changes. This could also allow to unlock the CP cap on pve side (and the main remaining complaint would be "the pve game is way too easy at 2000+ CP" ).
About "fun", well... you may have fun one-shotting newbies in cp-enabled Cyrodiil now, but imagine a Cyrodiil populated with CP 5000+ players, that can one-shot npcs and players under 3000 CP, solo take keeps, and are all almost unkillable... is it still fun ? Do you think "new" players (ie. under 3000 CP) would also enjoy such thing ?
You may not agree with that, but remind it when you'll read the next nerf notes.
Except a 5000+ CP is impossible as there are only 3600 in total...Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real2 -
Cirantille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is a queue during prime time for non-cp
I don't know how do you think it is dead
As for the OP, why should we restrict people.
I never played in cp campaign, because well I was like lvl 30 when I started pvping so I started non cp, below 50 etc
Now I made friends here so I dont wanna leave :x2 -
Bucky_13✭✭✭✭✭
✭I tried taking a resource in No CP Cyrodiil before. The guards absolutely wrecked me. CP is a crutch? Yes it is, one I'd fight tooth and nail to keep. Unless they do a massive rework with their plans. I don't mind losing CP, I just mind it if I go from being decent to giving tickles.
It's a matter of tactics. I run a sniper with high damage and crap defense. Snipe the mage guard, then the mender at the tower. Then any possible guard roaming, menders then guards at flag with aoe+ snipes. If I rush into the guards at the flag I die in seconds. With some tactics, the biggest issue is how long it takes to flip a flag solo. Other builds have other tactics, like running into the tower first.
I also find this way more fun, having to use my brain cells for once and not just run in and murderkill everything without thinking like it's in CP. I've been cp 810 for ages but I enjoy the PvP in no CP so much more that I'm never gonna bother with CP PvP. Being able to have the CP allocated for PvE and never having to respec when I do PvP is another bonus of it.0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The game would be much healthier and better off in the long run, and ZOS would have less of a balancing nightmare. It's so blatantly obvious, and ZOS knows it but they are afraid of upsetting some people.
CP PvP is totally borked, it allows for seriously stupid abuses. Also 90% of 1v1s end in stalemate; that has NEVER happened to me in a BG or noCP Cyro. In noCP someone is going to die there is no way around it.
That's exactly what Cyro needs for a big performance boost - players need to die, not live forever spamming smart heals and aoe incessantly making the server sweaty.Edited by Solariken on January 9, 2020 10:20PM4 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The_Old_Goat wrote: »The_Old_Goat wrote: »You shouldn't try to limit pvp play for other people. If you don't enjoy the cp pvp, simply don't play it.
Except keeping CP is affecting non-CP, and vice versa, because balance changes are always taken into account with one over the other, not both.
People have been talking about players stacking well beyond 40-50k health in PvP for a while, when that's only ever an issue in CP. Non-CP, you can barely have above 20-21k without intentionally building into health. If Zenimax were to blanket reduce health in PvP, non-CP would become completely unplayable.
Both CP and non-CP are operating in two distinct extremes, and the game cannot be balanced properly when they are. If we want to see proper balance in PvP, one of them has to go. Personally, I'd prefer non-CP to stay since I think it is closer to proper balance, but ultimately, it doesn't matter, either way will end up at the same destination.
These balance issues are from pve vs pvp, not cp vs non cp. Also the complaints about how the non cp campaigns are dead, are because of the game performance and combat changes in Cyrodiil, not because the CP campaign is stealing all your players. A lot of people have quit playing pvp because of the performance and those combat changes, those of us that are left are going where the bigger and better fights are, which happens to be in the cp campaign.
Did I say CP was stealing all non-CP players? Read again.
Both operate in two distinct extremes. Given the fact that Zenimax can't even separate balancing for PvE and PvP, there's no way in hell they'd separate CP and non-CP. Ergo, any changes they make for PvP's sake, will always be for one or the other, not both, and in all likelihood they'll be changing for CP since that's their baby.
It's just basic logic. Either way the changes blow, the other side ends up being screwed. Sooner or later, Zenimax will make a change purely aimed at CP, which will make non-CP unplayable. And that's not just Cyrodiil, that's also BGs and non-CP IC.Edited by jcm2606 on January 9, 2020 2:13PM1 -
Bucky_13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sounds like a too lazy to grind problem. I'm always curious what CP rank the folks that call for it to be done away with are.
My guess is they're <300.
I'm CP 810 (or 1000+ something). The same goes for more than half the players in my PvP guilds. I prefer no CP because the fights are more fun, builds are less perfect in no CP. Only time I do CP campaign is if I want to do PvE stuff and want the easy mode on the low pop campaign.1 -
CompM4s✭✭✭✭✭Only full healers can slot heals! Only tanks can use a shield! You will play as I say. I have spoken.2 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Remove CP, Remove all monster sets, and remove all 5 set proc sets. We need more Hunding less Zaans.4 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The_Old_Goat wrote: »The_Old_Goat wrote: »You shouldn't try to limit pvp play for other people. If you don't enjoy the cp pvp, simply don't play it.
Except keeping CP is affecting non-CP, and vice versa, because balance changes are always taken into account with one over the other, not both.
People have been talking about players stacking well beyond 40-50k health in PvP for a while, when that's only ever an issue in CP. Non-CP, you can barely have above 20-21k without intentionally building into health. If Zenimax were to blanket reduce health in PvP, non-CP would become completely unplayable.
Both CP and non-CP are operating in two distinct extremes, and the game cannot be balanced properly when they are. If we want to see proper balance in PvP, one of them has to go. Personally, I'd prefer non-CP to stay since I think it is closer to proper balance, but ultimately, it doesn't matter, either way will end up at the same destination.
These balance issues are from pve vs pvp, not cp vs non cp. Also the complaints about how the non cp campaigns are dead, are because of the game performance and combat changes in Cyrodiil, not because the CP campaign is stealing all your players. A lot of people have quit playing pvp because of the performance and those combat changes, those of us that are left are going where the bigger and better fights are, which happens to be in the cp campaign.
Both operate in two distinct extremes. Given the fact that Zenimax can't even separate balancing for PvE and PvP, there's no way in hell they'd separate CP and non-CP. Ergo, any changes they make for PvP's sake, will always be for one or the other, not both, and in all likelihood they'll be changing for CP since that's their baby.
It's just basic logic. Either way the changes blow, the other side ends up being screwed. Sooner or later, Zenimax will make a change purely aimed at CP, which will make non-CP unplayable. And that's not just Cyrodiil, that's also BGs and non-CP IC.
@jcm2606 that's definitely not true. Don't forget battlegrounds are a thing (also ZOS' baby), and likely to remain more popular than Cyrodiil until performance is addressed. Ergo more changes are likely to be made with noCP in mind. Their decision to make BGs exclusively noCP was very deliberate - they tried CP BGs and it was a train wreck.
Also CP/noCP are not distinct extremes - only CP contains extremes. NoCP doesn't have anywhere near as many moving parts in terms of stat gain, modifiers, and stupid gimmicks (hello Tactician). CP advocates cite proc sets as the reason noCP is imbalanced, but nay, they are working as intended there and appropriately effective.1 -
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is no need to balance the game with or without CP, since if you want to play a CP campaign you and your enemy have the same chance to use CP.
The CP campaigns are balanced as long as you have max CP, like the non CP are balanced with everyone having 0 CP.PC|EU2 -
xxthir13enxx✭✭✭✭✭
✭Considering ZoS is currently reviewing the CP system and will likely be coming out with something new/different...
Why not just kick back n play how you want until than.Edited by xxthir13enxx on January 9, 2020 3:07PM1 -
iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sounds like a too lazy to grind problem. I'm always curious what CP rank the folks that call for it to be done away with are.
My guess is they're <300.
Im cp 1300 ish. And non cp pvp performs better and has far less obnoxious tank builds than cp.
Performance NEEDS to be fixed. If doing away with cp is the cost, so be it.3 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The same people that kill you with CP will kill you without CP.
Tanky resistance will go down but so will damage.3 -
MerguezMan✭✭✭✭There is no need to balance the game with or without CP, since if you want to play a CP campaign you and your enemy have the same chance to use CP.
The CP campaigns are balanced as long as you have max CP, like the non CP are balanced with everyone having 0 CP.
(sarcasm)
So, there's absolutely no problem that in a range from CP10 to CP810 (thats about some millions of xp), a player that is not at CP cap would somewhat be under "balance" point.
The dev team will totally ignore complaint/nerf threads for future updates (as they did over past years... They probably just like to nerf things randomly for their own fun).
Following that same logic, if a "new" player would expect balanced pvp, he should stay in no-cp until he hits CP cap. And that does not divide the community at all.
(/sarcasm)
And you do expect CP cap increase at some point ?
Though, this is indeed a good question : How many players are out there, connecting daily in cp pvp, that are at CP810 or above, per platform ? And how many not at cap ?0 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Not much point discussing it. Doesnt matter how many agree or disagree which either option. This should have been a completed goal in 2019 to rebalance and focus on one environment. Neither are perfect, but noncp would be easier to balance around. Most experienced vets would agree on this. Most of the more casual pvp players are the ones that refuse to adjust to noncp.
Theres a reason BGs are noncp only. CP pvp is imbalanced and out of control. PC NA noncp camp died when there wasnt enough pop for more than one campaign the 2nd half of 2019. Pvp pop has fallen off a lot, and it has every reason to. Cyrodiil is littered with performance problems.5 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Or maybe all PvP should be max CP. Hmmmmm????
Nope. You have to fix a lot of other problems. Healing and tankiness are a big issue right now. Paired with CP its stupid easy to build unkillable survival. It's to the point dots create no pressure, and burst is the real focus. In noncp, dots always pressure your resources. Resources are limited in noncp. Resources are near limitless in cp. I've played the entire patch without a single piece of sustain or survival in my builds. CP covers everything you need. Building into it further just fortifies strong sets to the point of 'well how many people can I tank endlessly now?'3 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Switching to non cp would simply increase the number of tanks in pvp more so than there are already.
It would be far better to make a general combat change to move away from the cp system entirely. For example returning to softcaps.
In addition to this the rewards system (ap and campaign) would need to be reworked to de-incentivise empty flag flips and off primetime score imbalance where one faction zergs the map and accounts for the huge score imbalances we see now. (E.G. scoring tick timing adjustments based on population ratios)@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Banana Squad (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Roleplay Circle)2 -
JakaWild✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »The same people that kill you with CP will kill you without CP.
Tanky resistance will go down but so will damage.
the difference would be that in noCP the tank would do little to no dmg.the tank would've had to make a choice.damage or tank.
In CP right now a tank doesn't have to make a clear choice between the two.tanks can do a lot of damage and STILL be a tank.
The choice should matter.3
This discussion has been closed.