I think Arctic Blast/Polar Wind needs a stronger HoT

ArchMikem · January 2020

Dont hurt me too bad. I just think 500 health per second just isnt anything at all. A Sorc gets a couple thousand from Surge, why cant my Ice Mage have similar self heals without back baring a Resto Staff?

zvavi · January 2020

Pretty sure This is a pve tank skill that scales of max health. Something like 25% health+3% HoT for 5 sec total of 40% health. So has nothing to do with surge, which is not a tank skill (well actually power surge is a tank skill but thats a debate for another day)

ArchMikem · January 2020

I love how theres no reason for my Ice Mage to exist then, cause apparently frost is supposed to be meant for Tanks, but this will never be my Tank character.

ESO_Nightingale · January 2020

I don't think arctic blast should even heal and should be further changed away from the base skill. It's in a bizzare state right now where tanks don't need the aoe stun because they already have a similar skill in their kit that they already don't use (gripping shards), and where dps really shouldn't have the strong heal considering green balance and other healing sources like the resto staff. Additionally, the stun doesn't work that great very often as it is both delayed, and has a small 6m radius which is about 43.75% smaller than the old 8m radius , so I believe it should be changed into something interesting, like this idea which i call AB4.0:

i think this skill would really give magicka warden a defining damage skill over their stamden counterpart, now that stamden has flies as well, along with giving them a unique and fun stun skill.

ArchMikem · January 2020

I'd hope the dmg in that tooltip isnt set and would scale much, much higher than that.

ESO_Nightingale · January 2020

ArchMikem wrote: »

I'd hope the dmg in that tooltip isnt set and would scale much, much higher than that.

yeah it would be the base before scaling

Runefang · January 2020

Right now it’s one of the unequivocally dumbest skills in the game. A hot that stuns? Why?? How do they expect it to work?? Useless and frustrating, I’d rather it’s previous incarnation.

ESO_Nightingale · January 2020

Runefang wrote: »

Right now it’s one of the unequivocally dumbest skills in the game. A hot that stuns? Why?? How do they expect it to work?? Useless and frustrating, I’d rather it’s previous incarnation.

it has everything instead of focusing on what we need it to be.

Iskiab · January 2020

The heal isn’t bad, it’s just been setup as a healer skill for the healing, and a stun skill for a dps.

With CPs and + healing modifiers you can get it up to almost a 10k tooltip self heal that also goes and heals someone else. The morph that stuns others you can use as a dps and pair it with perma.

I prefer to control my stuns and didn’t like stunning silly nilly so don’t like the ability much after trying it though. It also looks like it doesn’t break NB stealth/cloak, I can’t confirm that but am pretty sure it doesn’t because I wasn’t catching any with it.

ESO_Nightingale · January 2020

Iskiab wrote: »

The heal isn’t bad, it’s just been setup as a healer skill for the healing, and a stun skill for a dps.

With CPs and + healing modifiers you can get it up to almost a 10k tooltip self heal that also goes and heals someone else. The morph that stuns others you can use as a dps and pair it with perma.

I prefer to control my stuns and didn’t like stunning silly nilly so don’t like the ability much after trying it though. It also looks like it doesn’t break NB stealth/cloak, I can’t confirm that but am pretty sure it doesn’t because I wasn’t catching any with it.

the heal is quite good, however i really don't think dps needs it on arctic blast. And i also think that tanks shouldn't have the arctic blast morph, as they already have a better morph with polar wind, and don't need 2. seeing as Magicka DPS now feels even less unique because stam took our flies. if they remove it, i think the compensation for arctic blast not having the heal would need to be something like AB4.0 in order to really encourage it's use by Magicka DPS over polar wind. because if blast isn't given a substantial enough buff, people would probably just swap over to polar wind, and arctic blast would become useless.

Aelorin · January 2020

The base heal is ok, especially when low on health because of major mending from the healing tree.

Then the second strong part is the damage + stun (mostly for PvP)

The HOT is just a nice addition in my opinion. If they make that part stronger, they will make someting else weaker and that would be a shame.

ESO_Nightingale · January 2020

Aelorin wrote: »

The base heal is ok, especially when low on health because of major mending from the healing tree.

Then the second strong part is the damage + stun (mostly for PvP)

The HOT is just a nice addition in my opinion. If they make that part stronger, they will make someting else weaker and that would be a shame.

Yeah the heal is really good. But like i've said before i really don't think we need it, even including the smaller heal when taking into account these things:

We already have a ton of healing on our class with the Green Balance line, and with restoration staff, making this healing skill completely unnecessary from a balance perspective for DPS who want to use a class stun.
Tanks don't use arctic blast or even gripping shards to cc atm, preferring polar wind's powerful group healing potential. further making it unnecessary.
DPS are becoming harder to kill in pvp because of this really strong heal so much so that i see it regularly complained about.
Heal could be removed to make the skill a better damage and stun skill that gives magicka warden a clear and defining frost damage skill that they want and lack that helps them out in more situations in both pvp and pve.

what you call the second "strong" part, isn't actually that powerful as the stun has a really short radius with a long wind-up time before actually stunning. although i think i understand what you mean, in that the ability does 2-3 very distinct and different things, leading to it becoming quite loaded as a skill.

ArchMikem · January 2020

No one is explaining why you all claim the heal is strong. My Ice Mage build has a hard time self healing and i did say in the OP "without back baring a Resto Staff". Its like some common knowledge is flying over my head here.

Joosef_Kivikilpi · January 2020

ArchMikem wrote: »

No one is explaining why you all claim the heal is strong. My Ice Mage build has a hard time self healing and i did say in the OP "without back baring a Resto Staff". Its like some common knowledge is flying over my head here.

Throw on living vines or lotus bloom to self-heal. Arctic Wind could just be a thematic ice damage spell for you since you're not a tank.

I have been absolutely loving my Ice Mage Tank/Healer/DPS. Been soloing dragons with how freaking crazy that Polar Wind heal is... not even having all healing passives in yet, I hit 24-25k crit heals on myself with having ~37k health buffed up.

ESO_Nightingale · January 2020

Joosef_Kivikilpi wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

No one is explaining why you all claim the heal is strong. My Ice Mage build has a hard time self healing and i did say in the OP "without back baring a Resto Staff". Its like some common knowledge is flying over my head here.

Throw on living vines or lotus bloom to self-heal. Arctic Wind could just be a thematic ice damage spell for you since you're not a tank.

I have been absolutely loving my Ice Mage Tank/Healer/DPS. Been soloing dragons with how freaking crazy that Polar Wind heal is... not even having all healing passives in yet, I hit 24-25k crit heals on myself with having ~37k health buffed up.

Pretty much this. Magden's healing is supposed to be from living trellis and other green balance skills so combined with arctic blast its just a little too much.

thadjarvis · January 2020

@ArchMikem if you don't use any GB skills to proc major mending and have the normal health of a tank, it is going to feel quite weak for sure. It seems best designed for a higher health solo build.

May be true that a Sorc with access to only class heals skills have better healing than an Ice Warden self-limiting using only ice heals. But it seems that you are only using one skill line from the class. It would be slightly reasonable to compare to a Sorc that chooses to run no resto and only healing skills from one tree to the OP build. Conjuror only Sorc or Storm only Sorc healing doesn't seems leaps above Ice only Warden.

ArchMikem · January 2020

thadjarvis wrote: »

@ArchMikem if you don't use any GB skills to proc major mending and have the normal health of a tank, it is going to feel quite weak for sure. It seems best designed for a higher health solo build.

May be true that a Sorc with access to only class heals skills have better healing than an Ice Warden self-limiting using only ice heals. But it seems that you are only using one skill line from the class. It would be slightly reasonable to compare to a Sorc that chooses to run no resto and only healing skills from one tree to the OP build. Conjuror only Sorc or Storm only Sorc healing doesn't seems leaps above Ice only Warden.

My Sorc does actually run double Shock staves, and used to get all healing from Surge before I decided to include Dark Conversion to also help with sustain. Even then my Sorc build utilizes a lot of crit damage so the healing from Surge alone is quite nice.

The problem with my Ice build is the lack of a reliable Heal. If I wanted a strong on demand Heal, it'd have to be Enchanted Growth, but the skill is insanely expensive to spam. Healing Seed is the cheaper alternative but you have to wait SIX seconds to actually be healed with a single tick. I've just today tried using Lotus Blossom and it seems to be alright, so long as I can sustain enough to keep light attacking, but since I run Inner Light for extra magic, the Major Prophecy is redundant and wasted.

And yeah, also sustain is a major problem for it too. Lower damage done because of Frost skills combined with a few expensive skills makes my bar drain in a hurry. Yes I'm gimping myself by playing a build structured around a theme and not the Meta, but still, if you're going to make the Heal scale off something, why max Health? Tanks don't need good self heals, that's what dedicated Healers are for in group content. If it scaled off magic I wouldn't be having this problem since I have a 46k pool to work with.

Royaji · January 2020

ArchMikem wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

@ArchMikem if you don't use any GB skills to proc major mending and have the normal health of a tank, it is going to feel quite weak for sure. It seems best designed for a higher health solo build.

May be true that a Sorc with access to only class heals skills have better healing than an Ice Warden self-limiting using only ice heals. But it seems that you are only using one skill line from the class. It would be slightly reasonable to compare to a Sorc that chooses to run no resto and only healing skills from one tree to the OP build. Conjuror only Sorc or Storm only Sorc healing doesn't seems leaps above Ice only Warden.

Tanks don't need good self heals, that's what dedicated Healers are for in group content.

Yeah, sorry, you get no sympathy.

You are legit asking to screw over an entire role just so your snowflake (get it?) build can be a little less sub-optimal than it already is. And you even already have a solution in slotting some of the skills from the healing skill line. Also, might I guess that you are not using Blue Betty aswell? This explains your sustain issues.

Limiting yourself just to one skill line, which is not even intended for the role you are applying it to, comes with consequences. Winter's Embrace is a tanking skill line. You can dislike it all you want but that's what it is. Frost is for tanks until ZOS decides to 180 their direction again. End of the discussion.

kringled_1 · January 2020

ArchMikem wrote: »

The problem with my Ice build is the lack of a reliable Heal. If I wanted a strong on demand Heal, it'd have to be Enchanted Growth, but the skill is insanely expensive to spam. Healing Seed is the cheaper alternative but you have to wait SIX seconds to actually be healed with a single tick. I've just today tried using Lotus Blossom and it seems to be alright, so long as I can sustain enough to keep light attacking, but since I run Inner Light for extra magic, the Major Prophecy is redundant and wasted.

And yeah, also sustain is a major problem for it too. Lower damage done because of Frost skills combined with a few expensive skills makes my bar drain in a hurry. Yes I'm gimping myself by playing a build structured around a theme and not the Meta, but still, if you're going to make the Heal scale off something, why max Health? Tanks don't need good self heals, that's what dedicated Healers are for in group content. If it scaled off magic I wouldn't be having this problem since I have a 46k pool to work with.

To build on what Royaji said, yes, tanks need good self heals in a lot of content. Magwarden does not lack for self heals. Yes, enchanted growth is expensive, but if you'd bothered to morph healing seed it gains a hot for the budding seed morph. Living trellis would be my choice of a self heal here when incoming damage is higher, but lotus will certainly help. The animal companions passive gives a reasonable amount of passive self heal to most warden dps builds also.

Bashev · January 2020

Skill is good as it is, dont over buff it. If you want hot ask for another skill. Btw vines are a nice hot if you take damage.

Daemonai · January 2020

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Aelorin wrote: »

The base heal is ok, especially when low on health because of major mending from the healing tree.

Then the second strong part is the damage + stun (mostly for PvP)

The HOT is just a nice addition in my opinion. If they make that part stronger, they will make someting else weaker and that would be a shame.

Yeah the heal is really good. But like i've said before i really don't think we need it, even including the smaller heal when taking into account these things:
We already have a ton of healing on our class with the Green Balance line, and with restoration staff, making this healing skill completely unnecessary from a balance perspective for DPS who want to use a class stun.

Tanks don't use arctic blast or even gripping shards to cc atm, preferring polar wind's powerful group healing potential. further making it unnecessary.

DPS are becoming harder to kill in pvp because of this really strong heal so much so that i see it regularly complained about.

Heal could be removed to make the skill a better damage and stun skill that gives magicka warden a clear and defining frost damage skill that they want and lack that helps them out in more situations in both pvp and pve.

what you call the second "strong" part, isn't actually that powerful as the stun has a really short radius with a long wind-up time before actually stunning. although i think i understand what you mean, in that the ability does 2-3 very distinct and different things, leading to it becoming quite loaded as a skill.

Why is it that you seem to know nothing about the class you advocate for? And why is it that your advocacy almost always takes the form of nerfs?

"We already have a ton of healing on our class with the Green Balance line, and with restoration staff, making this healing skill completely unnecessary from a balance perspective for DPS who want to use a class stun."

Arctic Wind is the only HP-scaling heal wardens have, so it is not unnecessary FOR TANKS. This skill is made specifically FOR TANKS who have low Magicka pools (and therefore poor healing) to have a decent healing ability. THIS IS NOT A DPS SKILL.

"Tanks don't use arctic blast or even gripping shards to cc atm, preferring polar wind's powerful group healing potential. further making it unnecessary."

Warden Tanks absolutely use Gripping Shards and Artic Blast to CC.

Gripping Shards provides AOE immobilize, snare, a high chance to inflict chilled/minor maim, and HP scaling damage. It is invaluable FOR TANKS, AS DESIGNED.

Arctic Blast provides HP-scaled healing, a chance to inflict chilled/minor maim, and stuns mobs/players who stick too close to the warden. The stun is well designed as it gives tanks, who are often under fire by many mobs or players, some breathing room in the form of an AoE stun. It is invaluable FOR TANKS, AS DESIGNED.

Maybe YOU don't use the skills, as you still seem to be trying to make DPS frost Warden happen. SPOILER: It's not going to happen.

"DPS are becoming harder to kill in pvp because of this really strong heal so much so that i see it regularly complained about."

DPS have low HP pools, so Artic Wind would scale poorly on them. This skill is not the reason DPS are harder to kill.

"Heal could be removed to make the skill a better damage and stun skill that gives magicka warden a clear and defining frost damage skill that they want and lack that helps them out in more situations in both pvp and pve."

That's what this is all about. *facepalm*

Say it with me: THIS IS NOT A DPS ABILITY! IT IS A TANK ABILITY. THE WINTERS EMBRACE TREE IS A TANKING SKILL TREE. Wardens already have a viable DPS tree: Animal Companions. Two DPS trees would be redundant.

PLEASE, stop with your selfish advocacy of making frost DPS a thing so that you can live out your fantasy of being Iceman.

In the end, you will not get your frost DPS and you will only make frost tanking worse.
-

Daemonai · January 2020

Royaji wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

@ArchMikem if you don't use any GB skills to proc major mending and have the normal health of a tank, it is going to feel quite weak for sure. It seems best designed for a higher health solo build.

May be true that a Sorc with access to only class heals skills have better healing than an Ice Warden self-limiting using only ice heals. But it seems that you are only using one skill line from the class. It would be slightly reasonable to compare to a Sorc that chooses to run no resto and only healing skills from one tree to the OP build. Conjuror only Sorc or Storm only Sorc healing doesn't seems leaps above Ice only Warden.

Tanks don't need good self heals, that's what dedicated Healers are for in group content.

You are legit asking to screw over an entire role just so your snowflake (get it?) build can be a little less sub-optimal than it already is.

And I am sick of it at this point.

ESO_Nightingale · January 2020

Royaji wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

@ArchMikem if you don't use any GB skills to proc major mending and have the normal health of a tank, it is going to feel quite weak for sure. It seems best designed for a higher health solo build.

May be true that a Sorc with access to only class heals skills have better healing than an Ice Warden self-limiting using only ice heals. But it seems that you are only using one skill line from the class. It would be slightly reasonable to compare to a Sorc that chooses to run no resto and only healing skills from one tree to the OP build. Conjuror only Sorc or Storm only Sorc healing doesn't seems leaps above Ice only Warden.

Tanks don't need good self heals, that's what dedicated Healers are for in group content.

Yeah, sorry, you get no sympathy.

You are legit asking to screw over an entire role just so your snowflake (get it?) build can be a little less sub-optimal than it already is. And you even already have a solution in slotting some of the skills from the healing skill line. Also, might I guess that you are not using Blue Betty aswell? This explains your sustain issues.

Limiting yourself just to one skill line, which is not even intended for the role you are applying it to, comes with consequences. Winter's Embrace is a tanking skill line. You can dislike it all you want but that's what it is. Frost is for tanks until ZOS decides to 180 their direction again. End of the discussion.

Well actually, it seems that they've been changing that up a bit. Seeing as they've changed the damage scaling of arctic wind while adding frost dps sets. It's more of a mix between tanking and dps now. And it should continue going that way. But i agree with you. Tanks do need this health scaling heal which is why i think they shouldn't change polar wind.

ESO_Nightingale · January 2020

Daemonai wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Aelorin wrote: »

The base heal is ok, especially when low on health because of major mending from the healing tree.

Then the second strong part is the damage + stun (mostly for PvP)

The HOT is just a nice addition in my opinion. If they make that part stronger, they will make someting else weaker and that would be a shame.

Yeah the heal is really good. But like i've said before i really don't think we need it, even including the smaller heal when taking into account these things:
We already have a ton of healing on our class with the Green Balance line, and with restoration staff, making this healing skill completely unnecessary from a balance perspective for DPS who want to use a class stun.

Tanks don't use arctic blast or even gripping shards to cc atm, preferring polar wind's powerful group healing potential. further making it unnecessary.

DPS are becoming harder to kill in pvp because of this really strong heal so much so that i see it regularly complained about.

Heal could be removed to make the skill a better damage and stun skill that gives magicka warden a clear and defining frost damage skill that they want and lack that helps them out in more situations in both pvp and pve.

what you call the second "strong" part, isn't actually that powerful as the stun has a really short radius with a long wind-up time before actually stunning. although i think i understand what you mean, in that the ability does 2-3 very distinct and different things, leading to it becoming quite loaded as a skill.

Why is it that you seem to know nothing about the class you advocate for? And why is it that your advocacy almost always takes the form of nerfs?

"We already have a ton of healing on our class with the Green Balance line, and with restoration staff, making this healing skill completely unnecessary from a balance perspective for DPS who want to use a class stun."

Arctic Wind is the only HP-scaling heal wardens have, so it is not unnecessary FOR TANKS. This skill is made specifically FOR TANKS who have low Magicka pools (and therefore poor healing) to have a decent healing ability. THIS IS NOT A DPS SKILL.

"Tanks don't use arctic blast or even gripping shards to cc atm, preferring polar wind's powerful group healing potential. further making it unnecessary."

Warden Tanks absolutely use Gripping Shards and Artic Blast to CC.

Gripping Shards provides AOE immobilize, snare, a high chance to inflict chilled/minor maim, and HP scaling damage. It is invaluable FOR TANKS, AS DESIGNED.

Arctic Blast provides HP-scaled healing, a chance to inflict chilled/minor maim, and stuns mobs/players who stick too close to the warden. The stun is well designed as it gives tanks, who are often under fire by many mobs or players, some breathing room in the form of an AoE stun. It is invaluable FOR TANKS, AS DESIGNED.

Maybe YOU don't use the skills, as you still seem to be trying to make DPS frost Warden happen. SPOILER: It's not going to happen.

"DPS are becoming harder to kill in pvp because of this really strong heal so much so that i see it regularly complained about."

DPS have low HP pools, so Artic Wind would scale poorly on them. This skill is not the reason DPS are harder to kill.

"Heal could be removed to make the skill a better damage and stun skill that gives magicka warden a clear and defining frost damage skill that they want and lack that helps them out in more situations in both pvp and pve."

That's what this is all about. *facepalm*

Say it with me: THIS IS NOT A DPS ABILITY! IT IS A TANK ABILITY. THE WINTERS EMBRACE TREE IS A TANKING SKILL TREE. Wardens already have a viable DPS tree: Animal Companions. Two DPS trees would be redundant.

PLEASE, stop with your selfish advocacy of making frost DPS a thing so that you can live out your fantasy of being Iceman.

In the end, you will not get your frost DPS and you will only make frost tanking worse.
-

Woah there buddy, i have been saying that polar wind needs to stay the same this entire post. And i got information from a class rep saying that no warden tank he knows uses gripping shards in a trial environment which is the hardest content in the game. I think that's pretty good source. If you use those skills, that's great for you. Sorry, if i suggest a change to something you like. You say i know nothing about the class i advocate for where as i think i know a lot seeing as i got a majority of my information from pretty good players and class reps, just because i advocate for a class, does not mean that i think everything should be buffed. I believe changing the arctic blast morph causes minimal damage to tanks while really helping magicka dps out. I'm not trying to destroy tanking on wardens.

ArchMikem · January 2020

Royaji wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

@ArchMikem if you don't use any GB skills to proc major mending and have the normal health of a tank, it is going to feel quite weak for sure. It seems best designed for a higher health solo build.

May be true that a Sorc with access to only class heals skills have better healing than an Ice Warden self-limiting using only ice heals. But it seems that you are only using one skill line from the class. It would be slightly reasonable to compare to a Sorc that chooses to run no resto and only healing skills from one tree to the OP build. Conjuror only Sorc or Storm only Sorc healing doesn't seems leaps above Ice only Warden.

Tanks don't need good self heals, that's what dedicated Healers are for in group content.

Yeah, sorry, you get no sympathy.

You are legit asking to screw over an entire role just so your snowflake (get it?) build can be a little less sub-optimal than it already is. And you even already have a solution in slotting some of the skills from the healing skill line. Also, might I guess that you are not using Blue Betty aswell? This explains your sustain issues.

Limiting yourself just to one skill line, which is not even intended for the role you are applying it to, comes with consequences. Winter's Embrace is a tanking skill line. You can dislike it all you want but that's what it is. Frost is for tanks until ZOS decides to 180 their direction again. End of the discussion.

Changing a single self heal for Wardens screws over an entire Role. All the other classes mean nothing to you then huh?

With the mere existence of Class passives that increase Frost damage by 10%, and armor sets like Ysgramor's that adds near 400 spell damage to Frost abilities, the "fact" that the Frost damage class tree for Wardens was meant solely for Tanking is a blatant contradiction, and all it proves is ZOS hasn't made a definitive decision about it. If the Frost element was meant for Tanking, sets and passives enhancing it's damage done would be irrelevant, and yet, they exist.

Even still, whether or not Frost was meant for Tanking or Damage Dealing is also irrelevant in this thread. I know Frost damage done sucks, I've accepted that and I deal with it. This thread's singular point was expressing a desire to change the scaling of Arctic Blast's self heal so it benefited DDs. You Tank Wardens can have Polar Wind for all I care.

ESO_Nightingale · January 2020

ArchMikem wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

@ArchMikem if you don't use any GB skills to proc major mending and have the normal health of a tank, it is going to feel quite weak for sure. It seems best designed for a higher health solo build.

May be true that a Sorc with access to only class heals skills have better healing than an Ice Warden self-limiting using only ice heals. But it seems that you are only using one skill line from the class. It would be slightly reasonable to compare to a Sorc that chooses to run no resto and only healing skills from one tree to the OP build. Conjuror only Sorc or Storm only Sorc healing doesn't seems leaps above Ice only Warden.

Tanks don't need good self heals, that's what dedicated Healers are for in group content.

Yeah, sorry, you get no sympathy.

You are legit asking to screw over an entire role just so your snowflake (get it?) build can be a little less sub-optimal than it already is. And you even already have a solution in slotting some of the skills from the healing skill line. Also, might I guess that you are not using Blue Betty aswell? This explains your sustain issues.

Limiting yourself just to one skill line, which is not even intended for the role you are applying it to, comes with consequences. Winter's Embrace is a tanking skill line. You can dislike it all you want but that's what it is. Frost is for tanks until ZOS decides to 180 their direction again. End of the discussion.

Changing a single self heal for Wardens screws over an entire Role. All the other classes mean nothing to you then huh?

With the mere existence of Class passives that increase Frost damage by 10%, and armor sets like Ysgramor's that adds near 400 spell damage to Frost abilities, the "fact" that the Frost damage class tree for Wardens was meant solely for Tanking is a blatant contradiction, and all it proves is ZOS hasn't made a definitive decision about it. If the Frost element was meant for Tanking, sets and passives enhancing it's damage done would be irrelevant, and yet, they exist.

Even still, whether or not Frost was meant for Tanking or Damage Dealing is also irrelevant in this thread. I know Frost damage done sucks, I've accepted that and I deal with it. This thread's singular point was expressing a desire to change the scaling of Arctic Blast's self heal so it benefited DDs. You Tank Wardens can have Polar Wind for all I care.

it's heal already does benefit DDs in pvp.

Kel · January 2020

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

@ArchMikem if you don't use any GB skills to proc major mending and have the normal health of a tank, it is going to feel quite weak for sure. It seems best designed for a higher health solo build.

May be true that a Sorc with access to only class heals skills have better healing than an Ice Warden self-limiting using only ice heals. But it seems that you are only using one skill line from the class. It would be slightly reasonable to compare to a Sorc that chooses to run no resto and only healing skills from one tree to the OP build. Conjuror only Sorc or Storm only Sorc healing doesn't seems leaps above Ice only Warden.

Tanks don't need good self heals, that's what dedicated Healers are for in group content.

Yeah, sorry, you get no sympathy.

You are legit asking to screw over an entire role just so your snowflake (get it?) build can be a little less sub-optimal than it already is. And you even already have a solution in slotting some of the skills from the healing skill line. Also, might I guess that you are not using Blue Betty aswell? This explains your sustain issues.

Limiting yourself just to one skill line, which is not even intended for the role you are applying it to, comes with consequences. Winter's Embrace is a tanking skill line. You can dislike it all you want but that's what it is. Frost is for tanks until ZOS decides to 180 their direction again. End of the discussion.

Changing a single self heal for Wardens screws over an entire Role. All the other classes mean nothing to you then huh?

With the mere existence of Class passives that increase Frost damage by 10%, and armor sets like Ysgramor's that adds near 400 spell damage to Frost abilities, the "fact" that the Frost damage class tree for Wardens was meant solely for Tanking is a blatant contradiction, and all it proves is ZOS hasn't made a definitive decision about it. If the Frost element was meant for Tanking, sets and passives enhancing it's damage done would be irrelevant, and yet, they exist.

Even still, whether or not Frost was meant for Tanking or Damage Dealing is also irrelevant in this thread. I know Frost damage done sucks, I've accepted that and I deal with it. This thread's singular point was expressing a desire to change the scaling of Arctic Blast's self heal so it benefited DDs. You Tank Wardens can have Polar Wind for all I care.

it's heal already does benefit DDs in pvp.

^
This.

Wardens with high health/high damage in PvP greatly benefit from this heal, and it's very good in that environment.

As complaining on this forum is constantly "PvP whiners always get PvE skills nerfed", I'd like you to take into consideration the other side of the coin. A buff to the healing of this skill would make an already insane heal absolutely crazy in PvP. Wardens would never die. It's already extremely tough to take them down now...this would be overkill.

And save the "I don't care about" X game mode. Zos does NOT separate the two, so you must consider both sides before making suggestions for such changes. That you don't play that mode is of zero consequence. Others do, and this isn't just your personal game, it's an MMO. As much as many may otherwise wish...

ESO_Nightingale · January 2020

Kel wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

@ArchMikem if you don't use any GB skills to proc major mending and have the normal health of a tank, it is going to feel quite weak for sure. It seems best designed for a higher health solo build.

May be true that a Sorc with access to only class heals skills have better healing than an Ice Warden self-limiting using only ice heals. But it seems that you are only using one skill line from the class. It would be slightly reasonable to compare to a Sorc that chooses to run no resto and only healing skills from one tree to the OP build. Conjuror only Sorc or Storm only Sorc healing doesn't seems leaps above Ice only Warden.

Tanks don't need good self heals, that's what dedicated Healers are for in group content.

Yeah, sorry, you get no sympathy.

You are legit asking to screw over an entire role just so your snowflake (get it?) build can be a little less sub-optimal than it already is. And you even already have a solution in slotting some of the skills from the healing skill line. Also, might I guess that you are not using Blue Betty aswell? This explains your sustain issues.

Limiting yourself just to one skill line, which is not even intended for the role you are applying it to, comes with consequences. Winter's Embrace is a tanking skill line. You can dislike it all you want but that's what it is. Frost is for tanks until ZOS decides to 180 their direction again. End of the discussion.

Changing a single self heal for Wardens screws over an entire Role. All the other classes mean nothing to you then huh?

With the mere existence of Class passives that increase Frost damage by 10%, and armor sets like Ysgramor's that adds near 400 spell damage to Frost abilities, the "fact" that the Frost damage class tree for Wardens was meant solely for Tanking is a blatant contradiction, and all it proves is ZOS hasn't made a definitive decision about it. If the Frost element was meant for Tanking, sets and passives enhancing it's damage done would be irrelevant, and yet, they exist.

Even still, whether or not Frost was meant for Tanking or Damage Dealing is also irrelevant in this thread. I know Frost damage done sucks, I've accepted that and I deal with it. This thread's singular point was expressing a desire to change the scaling of Arctic Blast's self heal so it benefited DDs. You Tank Wardens can have Polar Wind for all I care.

it's heal already does benefit DDs in pvp.

^
This.

Wardens with high health/high damage in PvP greatly benefit from this heal, and it's very good in that environment.

As complaining on this forum is constantly "PvP whiners always get PvE skills nerfed", I'd like you to take into consideration the other side of the coin. A buff to the healing of this skill would make an already insane heal absolutely crazy in PvP. Wardens would never die. It's already extremely tough to take them down now...this would be overkill.

And save the "I don't care about" X game mode. Zos does NOT separate the two, so you must consider both sides before making suggestions for such changes. That you don't play that mode is of zero consequence. Others do, and this isn't just your personal game, it's an MMO. As much as many may otherwise wish...

this is one reason why i suggest completely removing the heal from this morph and making the stun and damage aspects better and more interesting.

Kel · January 2020

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

@ArchMikem if you don't use any GB skills to proc major mending and have the normal health of a tank, it is going to feel quite weak for sure. It seems best designed for a higher health solo build.

May be true that a Sorc with access to only class heals skills have better healing than an Ice Warden self-limiting using only ice heals. But it seems that you are only using one skill line from the class. It would be slightly reasonable to compare to a Sorc that chooses to run no resto and only healing skills from one tree to the OP build. Conjuror only Sorc or Storm only Sorc healing doesn't seems leaps above Ice only Warden.

Tanks don't need good self heals, that's what dedicated Healers are for in group content.

Yeah, sorry, you get no sympathy.

You are legit asking to screw over an entire role just so your snowflake (get it?) build can be a little less sub-optimal than it already is. And you even already have a solution in slotting some of the skills from the healing skill line. Also, might I guess that you are not using Blue Betty aswell? This explains your sustain issues.

Limiting yourself just to one skill line, which is not even intended for the role you are applying it to, comes with consequences. Winter's Embrace is a tanking skill line. You can dislike it all you want but that's what it is. Frost is for tanks until ZOS decides to 180 their direction again. End of the discussion.

Changing a single self heal for Wardens screws over an entire Role. All the other classes mean nothing to you then huh?

With the mere existence of Class passives that increase Frost damage by 10%, and armor sets like Ysgramor's that adds near 400 spell damage to Frost abilities, the "fact" that the Frost damage class tree for Wardens was meant solely for Tanking is a blatant contradiction, and all it proves is ZOS hasn't made a definitive decision about it. If the Frost element was meant for Tanking, sets and passives enhancing it's damage done would be irrelevant, and yet, they exist.

Even still, whether or not Frost was meant for Tanking or Damage Dealing is also irrelevant in this thread. I know Frost damage done sucks, I've accepted that and I deal with it. This thread's singular point was expressing a desire to change the scaling of Arctic Blast's self heal so it benefited DDs. You Tank Wardens can have Polar Wind for all I care.

it's heal already does benefit DDs in pvp.

^
This.

Wardens with high health/high damage in PvP greatly benefit from this heal, and it's very good in that environment.

As complaining on this forum is constantly "PvP whiners always get PvE skills nerfed", I'd like you to take into consideration the other side of the coin. A buff to the healing of this skill would make an already insane heal absolutely crazy in PvP. Wardens would never die. It's already extremely tough to take them down now...this would be overkill.

And save the "I don't care about" X game mode. Zos does NOT separate the two, so you must consider both sides before making suggestions for such changes. That you don't play that mode is of zero consequence. Others do, and this isn't just your personal game, it's an MMO. As much as many may otherwise wish...

this is one reason why i suggest completely removing the heal from this morph and making the stun and damage aspects better and more interesting.

I agree with you.
My reply was more to the OP, who wants to see this heal be even stronger for a niche off meta build on a class that already has a dedicated healing skill line.

I agree, wardens need a reliable stun and not another heal. That they put another heal in the frost line is baffling, but alot of class changes with this combat team have been.

ESO_Nightingale · January 2020

Kel wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

@ArchMikem if you don't use any GB skills to proc major mending and have the normal health of a tank, it is going to feel quite weak for sure. It seems best designed for a higher health solo build.

May be true that a Sorc with access to only class heals skills have better healing than an Ice Warden self-limiting using only ice heals. But it seems that you are only using one skill line from the class. It would be slightly reasonable to compare to a Sorc that chooses to run no resto and only healing skills from one tree to the OP build. Conjuror only Sorc or Storm only Sorc healing doesn't seems leaps above Ice only Warden.

Tanks don't need good self heals, that's what dedicated Healers are for in group content.

Yeah, sorry, you get no sympathy.

You are legit asking to screw over an entire role just so your snowflake (get it?) build can be a little less sub-optimal than it already is. And you even already have a solution in slotting some of the skills from the healing skill line. Also, might I guess that you are not using Blue Betty aswell? This explains your sustain issues.

Limiting yourself just to one skill line, which is not even intended for the role you are applying it to, comes with consequences. Winter's Embrace is a tanking skill line. You can dislike it all you want but that's what it is. Frost is for tanks until ZOS decides to 180 their direction again. End of the discussion.

Changing a single self heal for Wardens screws over an entire Role. All the other classes mean nothing to you then huh?

With the mere existence of Class passives that increase Frost damage by 10%, and armor sets like Ysgramor's that adds near 400 spell damage to Frost abilities, the "fact" that the Frost damage class tree for Wardens was meant solely for Tanking is a blatant contradiction, and all it proves is ZOS hasn't made a definitive decision about it. If the Frost element was meant for Tanking, sets and passives enhancing it's damage done would be irrelevant, and yet, they exist.

Even still, whether or not Frost was meant for Tanking or Damage Dealing is also irrelevant in this thread. I know Frost damage done sucks, I've accepted that and I deal with it. This thread's singular point was expressing a desire to change the scaling of Arctic Blast's self heal so it benefited DDs. You Tank Wardens can have Polar Wind for all I care.

it's heal already does benefit DDs in pvp.

^
This.

Wardens with high health/high damage in PvP greatly benefit from this heal, and it's very good in that environment.

As complaining on this forum is constantly "PvP whiners always get PvE skills nerfed", I'd like you to take into consideration the other side of the coin. A buff to the healing of this skill would make an already insane heal absolutely crazy in PvP. Wardens would never die. It's already extremely tough to take them down now...this would be overkill.

And save the "I don't care about" X game mode. Zos does NOT separate the two, so you must consider both sides before making suggestions for such changes. That you don't play that mode is of zero consequence. Others do, and this isn't just your personal game, it's an MMO. As much as many may otherwise wish...

this is one reason why i suggest completely removing the heal from this morph and making the stun and damage aspects better and more interesting.

I agree with you.
My reply was more to the OP, who wants to see this heal be even stronger for a niche off meta build on a class that already has a dedicated healing skill line.

I agree, wardens need a reliable stun and not another heal. That they put another heal in the frost line is baffling, but alot of class changes with this combat team have been.

oh yeah i know, i was just adding to what you had said.

ArchMikem · January 2020

Kel wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

@ArchMikem if you don't use any GB skills to proc major mending and have the normal health of a tank, it is going to feel quite weak for sure. It seems best designed for a higher health solo build.

May be true that a Sorc with access to only class heals skills have better healing than an Ice Warden self-limiting using only ice heals. But it seems that you are only using one skill line from the class. It would be slightly reasonable to compare to a Sorc that chooses to run no resto and only healing skills from one tree to the OP build. Conjuror only Sorc or Storm only Sorc healing doesn't seems leaps above Ice only Warden.

Tanks don't need good self heals, that's what dedicated Healers are for in group content.

Yeah, sorry, you get no sympathy.

You are legit asking to screw over an entire role just so your snowflake (get it?) build can be a little less sub-optimal than it already is. And you even already have a solution in slotting some of the skills from the healing skill line. Also, might I guess that you are not using Blue Betty aswell? This explains your sustain issues.

Limiting yourself just to one skill line, which is not even intended for the role you are applying it to, comes with consequences. Winter's Embrace is a tanking skill line. You can dislike it all you want but that's what it is. Frost is for tanks until ZOS decides to 180 their direction again. End of the discussion.

Changing a single self heal for Wardens screws over an entire Role. All the other classes mean nothing to you then huh?

With the mere existence of Class passives that increase Frost damage by 10%, and armor sets like Ysgramor's that adds near 400 spell damage to Frost abilities, the "fact" that the Frost damage class tree for Wardens was meant solely for Tanking is a blatant contradiction, and all it proves is ZOS hasn't made a definitive decision about it. If the Frost element was meant for Tanking, sets and passives enhancing it's damage done would be irrelevant, and yet, they exist.

Even still, whether or not Frost was meant for Tanking or Damage Dealing is also irrelevant in this thread. I know Frost damage done sucks, I've accepted that and I deal with it. This thread's singular point was expressing a desire to change the scaling of Arctic Blast's self heal so it benefited DDs. You Tank Wardens can have Polar Wind for all I care.

it's heal already does benefit DDs in pvp.

^
This.

Wardens with high health/high damage in PvP greatly benefit from this heal, and it's very good in that environment.

As complaining on this forum is constantly "PvP whiners always get PvE skills nerfed", I'd like you to take into consideration the other side of the coin. A buff to the healing of this skill would make an already insane heal absolutely crazy in PvP. Wardens would never die. It's already extremely tough to take them down now...this would be overkill.

And save the "I don't care about" X game mode. Zos does NOT separate the two, so you must consider both sides before making suggestions for such changes. That you don't play that mode is of zero consequence. Others do, and this isn't just your personal game, it's an MMO. As much as many may otherwise wish...

You know my Sig says i'm an Alliance Prefect?