Group Finder does not find you a group any more :(
Onigar
✭✭✭
After this update (below) there is something changed with the queuing in a bad way and even grouping with a tank and a healer can take some time to find a group.
Queuing as DPS is now also significantly slower.
This is not just me I see it also from others in guild chat and zone chat as I move around maps.
It is good ZOS are still working on the group finder in anticipation of returning the Undaunted Event because surely there is more to be done here.
"ZOS_GinaBruno
Community Manager
Hi everyone!
We'd like to give you a heads up that on Monday, January 6, we’ll be performing a hotfix to implement several more fixes for the Activity Finder in preparation for re-enabling the Undaunted Event. The bulk of the fixes improve the ability for the Dungeon Finder to handle a very high population of players, and also fix some issues that could leave group members stuck in the queue.
This hotfix will require downtime on all megaservers but nothing to download once we finish, which we expect will be around 8:00am EST."
Queuing as DPS is now also significantly slower.
This is not just me I see it also from others in guild chat and zone chat as I move around maps.
It is good ZOS are still working on the group finder in anticipation of returning the Undaunted Event because surely there is more to be done here.
"ZOS_GinaBruno
Community Manager
Hi everyone!
We'd like to give you a heads up that on Monday, January 6, we’ll be performing a hotfix to implement several more fixes for the Activity Finder in preparation for re-enabling the Undaunted Event. The bulk of the fixes improve the ability for the Dungeon Finder to handle a very high population of players, and also fix some issues that could leave group members stuck in the queue.
This hotfix will require downtime on all megaservers but nothing to download once we finish, which we expect will be around 8:00am EST."
0
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Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭To many players and way to many calculations. Players might not agree with this but I do 95 percent the main source of the troubles is the way the group finder is coded and the number of calculations it has to perform. It can't handle the number of calculations its doing. A big fix would be just remove the requirements for having a tank or a healer and just random place people into groups and disable the role system for the normal part since that system likely relies on heavy code to make it work properly disabling it would deal with a lot of issues I think on that front. Roles should still remain for vet because of how vital they are there. Another is maybe outsourcing it to another server. Which could help deal with the issues that the finder is causing.
Edited by Thevampirenight on January 9, 2020 6:46AMPC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.1 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thevampirenight wrote: »To many players and way to many calculations. Players might not agree with this but I do 95 percent the main source of the troubles is the way the group finder is coded and the number of calculations it has to perform. It can't handle the number of calculations its doing. A big fix would be just remove the requirements for having a tank or a healer and just random place people into groups and disable the role system for the normal part since that system likely relies on heavy code to make it work properly disabling it would deal with a lot of issues I think on that front. Roles should still remain for vet because of how vital they are there. Another is maybe outsourcing it to another server. Which could help deal with the issues that the finder is causing.
World of Warcraft has 241 North American realms. True, some are fuller than others. ESO has a single mega server.
And yet, WoW can flawlessly put groups together with players across 241 different servers to run dungeons and raids. (Raids are what ESO calls trials)
This is a black eye for Zenimax Studios. It's an embarrassment that they cannot get this right.13 -
Agalloch✭✭✭✭✭Also WOW has 30-40 player raids.
Gw2 has one of the best Group finder I ever seen.
All the AAA MMOS have a working group finder. I don't understand why ESO one is different and so difficult to work properly.
English is not my native language.11 -
MercilessnVexed✭✭✭✭Thevampirenight wrote: »To many players and way to many calculations. Players might not agree with this but I do 95 percent the main source of the troubles is the way the group finder is coded and the number of calculations it has to perform. It can't handle the number of calculations its doing. A big fix would be just remove the requirements for having a tank or a healer and just random place people into groups and disable the role system for the normal part since that system likely relies on heavy code to make it work properly disabling it would deal with a lot of issues I think on that front. Roles should still remain for vet because of how vital they are there. Another is maybe outsourcing it to another server. Which could help deal with the issues that the finder is causing.
World of Warcraft has 241 North American realms. True, some are fuller than others. ESO has a single mega server.
And yet, WoW can flawlessly put groups together with players across 241 different servers to run dungeons and raids. (Raids are what ESO calls trials)
This is a black eye for Zenimax Studios. It's an embarrassment that they cannot get this right.
You cannot compare ESO to WoW. That's apples and oranges even in the gaming world. Blizzard is the top company in the world in terms of game development, with the money of Activision on their side as well. Blizzard can AFFORD that many servers. Zenimax doesn't have as much income generated - YET.
Also, there are pros and cons to having multiple servers versus a giant one. It USED to be that you could only find people on YOUR server in Blizz; they had to change that because many servers didn't have many people (or it was skewed to one side or the other). ESO has the advantage of never being alone when you need people. Unfortunately, with one server, if there are problems then the whole server has to be shut down. Zenimax seems to know what they're doing so the game isn't shut down very long during reset (as opposed to Blizz, where they can't get things right so they end up shut down for several extra hours!)
ESO has only been out since 2014. WoW has been out since 2004, not to mention Blizzard was putting drawings together and planning in the 80's. Both Zenimax and Bethesda have decent experience together in RPG's but this is the first MMORPG they've really ever created. It is not easy to create an MMORPG that is successful: You can see that with every new DLC and expansion released where people have a conniption fit about being unhappy. Every two years Blizzard is able to successfully put out a complete overhaul on their game. If you take 2014 ESO and compare it to 2020 ESO, there are SOME differences, but Glenumbra 2014 is the same as Glenumbra 2020. What I'm saying is it is still roughly the same concept. There hasn't been a texture update, a combat overhaul, etc.
Apples. Oranges. You have GOT to give Zenimax and ZoS time to get some more experience and money under their belts!
Zenimax needs more money and a bigger team and I don't know how they're going to get it. They may be stuck like this forever, they may find a way to surpass anything they have ever dreamt. But please, give them time and stop comparing ESo to other games and Zenimax to other companies.1 -
Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Beastygrowls wrote: »Thevampirenight wrote: »To many players and way to many calculations. Players might not agree with this but I do 95 percent the main source of the troubles is the way the group finder is coded and the number of calculations it has to perform. It can't handle the number of calculations its doing. A big fix would be just remove the requirements for having a tank or a healer and just random place people into groups and disable the role system for the normal part since that system likely relies on heavy code to make it work properly disabling it would deal with a lot of issues I think on that front. Roles should still remain for vet because of how vital they are there. Another is maybe outsourcing it to another server. Which could help deal with the issues that the finder is causing.
World of Warcraft has 241 North American realms. True, some are fuller than others. ESO has a single mega server.
And yet, WoW can flawlessly put groups together with players across 241 different servers to run dungeons and raids. (Raids are what ESO calls trials)
This is a black eye for Zenimax Studios. It's an embarrassment that they cannot get this right.
You cannot compare ESO to WoW. That's apples and oranges even in the gaming world. Blizzard is the top company in the world in terms of game development, with the money of Activision on their side as well. Blizzard can AFFORD that many servers. Zenimax doesn't have as much income generated - YET.
Also, there are pros and cons to having multiple servers versus a giant one. It USED to be that you could only find people on YOUR server in Blizz; they had to change that because many servers didn't have many people (or it was skewed to one side or the other). ESO has the advantage of never being alone when you need people. Unfortunately, with one server, if there are problems then the whole server has to be shut down. Zenimax seems to know what they're doing so the game isn't shut down very long during reset (as opposed to Blizz, where they can't get things right so they end up shut down for several extra hours!)
ESO has only been out since 2014. WoW has been out since 2004, not to mention Blizzard was putting drawings together and planning in the 80's. Both Zenimax and Bethesda have decent experience together in RPG's but this is the first MMORPG they've really ever created. It is not easy to create an MMORPG that is successful: You can see that with every new DLC and expansion released where people have a conniption fit about being unhappy. Every two years Blizzard is able to successfully put out a complete overhaul on their game. If you take 2014 ESO and compare it to 2020 ESO, there are SOME differences, but Glenumbra 2014 is the same as Glenumbra 2020. What I'm saying is it is still roughly the same concept. There hasn't been a texture update, a combat overhaul, etc.
Apples. Oranges. You have GOT to give Zenimax and ZoS time to get some more experience and money under their belts!
Zenimax needs more money and a bigger team and I don't know how they're going to get it. They may be stuck like this forever, they may find a way to surpass anything they have ever dreamt. But please, give them time and stop comparing ESo to other games and Zenimax to other companies.
Lmfao
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Mitrenga✭✭✭✭✭Beastygrowls wrote: »Thevampirenight wrote: »To many players and way to many calculations. Players might not agree with this but I do 95 percent the main source of the troubles is the way the group finder is coded and the number of calculations it has to perform. It can't handle the number of calculations its doing. A big fix would be just remove the requirements for having a tank or a healer and just random place people into groups and disable the role system for the normal part since that system likely relies on heavy code to make it work properly disabling it would deal with a lot of issues I think on that front. Roles should still remain for vet because of how vital they are there. Another is maybe outsourcing it to another server. Which could help deal with the issues that the finder is causing.
World of Warcraft has 241 North American realms. True, some are fuller than others. ESO has a single mega server.
And yet, WoW can flawlessly put groups together with players across 241 different servers to run dungeons and raids. (Raids are what ESO calls trials)
This is a black eye for Zenimax Studios. It's an embarrassment that they cannot get this right.
You cannot compare ESO to WoW. That's apples and oranges even in the gaming world. Blizzard is the top company in the world in terms of game development, with the money of Activision on their side as well. Blizzard can AFFORD that many servers. Zenimax doesn't have as much income generated - YET.
Also, there are pros and cons to having multiple servers versus a giant one. It USED to be that you could only find people on YOUR server in Blizz; they had to change that because many servers didn't have many people (or it was skewed to one side or the other). ESO has the advantage of never being alone when you need people. Unfortunately, with one server, if there are problems then the whole server has to be shut down. Zenimax seems to know what they're doing so the game isn't shut down very long during reset (as opposed to Blizz, where they can't get things right so they end up shut down for several extra hours!)
ESO has only been out since 2014. WoW has been out since 2004, not to mention Blizzard was putting drawings together and planning in the 80's. Both Zenimax and Bethesda have decent experience together in RPG's but this is the first MMORPG they've really ever created. It is not easy to create an MMORPG that is successful: You can see that with every new DLC and expansion released where people have a conniption fit about being unhappy. Every two years Blizzard is able to successfully put out a complete overhaul on their game. If you take 2014 ESO and compare it to 2020 ESO, there are SOME differences, but Glenumbra 2014 is the same as Glenumbra 2020. What I'm saying is it is still roughly the same concept. There hasn't been a texture update, a combat overhaul, etc.
Apples. Oranges. You have GOT to give Zenimax and ZoS time to get some more experience and money under their belts!
Zenimax needs more money and a bigger team and I don't know how they're going to get it. They may be stuck like this forever, they may find a way to surpass anything they have ever dreamt. But please, give them time and stop comparing ESo to other games and Zenimax to other companies.
I almost pity ZOS. Poor guys did not anticipate an MMO might require better servers. BUT, do not fear! I will sub for 2 more years and pay them more so they can compete with Blizzard.2 -
Env_t✭✭✭Beastygrowls wrote: »Thevampirenight wrote: »To many players and way to many calculations. Players might not agree with this but I do 95 percent the main source of the troubles is the way the group finder is coded and the number of calculations it has to perform. It can't handle the number of calculations its doing. A big fix would be just remove the requirements for having a tank or a healer and just random place people into groups and disable the role system for the normal part since that system likely relies on heavy code to make it work properly disabling it would deal with a lot of issues I think on that front. Roles should still remain for vet because of how vital they are there. Another is maybe outsourcing it to another server. Which could help deal with the issues that the finder is causing.
World of Warcraft has 241 North American realms. True, some are fuller than others. ESO has a single mega server.
And yet, WoW can flawlessly put groups together with players across 241 different servers to run dungeons and raids. (Raids are what ESO calls trials)
This is a black eye for Zenimax Studios. It's an embarrassment that they cannot get this right.
You cannot compare ESO to WoW. That's apples and oranges even in the gaming world. Blizzard is the top company in the world in terms of game development, with the money of Activision on their side as well. Blizzard can AFFORD that many servers. Zenimax doesn't have as much income generated - YET.
Also, there are pros and cons to having multiple servers versus a giant one. It USED to be that you could only find people on YOUR server in Blizz; they had to change that because many servers didn't have many people (or it was skewed to one side or the other). ESO has the advantage of never being alone when you need people. Unfortunately, with one server, if there are problems then the whole server has to be shut down. Zenimax seems to know what they're doing so the game isn't shut down very long during reset (as opposed to Blizz, where they can't get things right so they end up shut down for several extra hours!)
ESO has only been out since 2014. WoW has been out since 2004, not to mention Blizzard was putting drawings together and planning in the 80's. Both Zenimax and Bethesda have decent experience together in RPG's but this is the first MMORPG they've really ever created. It is not easy to create an MMORPG that is successful: You can see that with every new DLC and expansion released where people have a conniption fit about being unhappy. Every two years Blizzard is able to successfully put out a complete overhaul on their game. If you take 2014 ESO and compare it to 2020 ESO, there are SOME differences, but Glenumbra 2014 is the same as Glenumbra 2020. What I'm saying is it is still roughly the same concept. There hasn't been a texture update, a combat overhaul, etc.
Apples. Oranges. You have GOT to give Zenimax and ZoS time to get some more experience and money under their belts!
Zenimax needs more money and a bigger team and I don't know how they're going to get it. They may be stuck like this forever, they may find a way to surpass anything they have ever dreamt. But please, give them time and stop comparing ESo to other games and Zenimax to other companies.
hello zeni employee!5 -
Curious_Death✭✭✭✭✭
lmao love to check forum when starting day
always make me happy - when i dont play anymore 
hahaha GO GO power developers ! GO GO ! make new crown look costumes ! make more house trash items !
scr*w performance... u will have 3 milions houses to decorate but only by urself !! when players get enough of this circus ! haha
peace !
BTW:
Q4 2019: Update 24
Memory management overhaul and behind-the-scenes combat ability improvements phase 1
This is now live on all servers (PC/Mac, Xbox One, and PlayStation®4.)
Incremental patches with additional stability fixes and improvements also went out on all platforms. Stability is greatly improved on all platforms. We have one more PS4™ incremental patch planned for January 2020 to address some remaining PS4™-specific stability issues.
Complete rewrite of the Looking for Group system
The initial system rewrite work is now live on the PC/Mac, PlayStation®4, and Xbox One servers.
Some additional work is ongoing to address a few outstanding issues (edge-cases for pre-formed groups) that will be fixed by the time of this writing. Look for an undaunted test early next year to stress test the fixes.Edited by Curious_Death on January 9, 2020 10:09AM0 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Beastygrowls wrote: »Thevampirenight wrote: »To many players and way to many calculations. Players might not agree with this but I do 95 percent the main source of the troubles is the way the group finder is coded and the number of calculations it has to perform. It can't handle the number of calculations its doing. A big fix would be just remove the requirements for having a tank or a healer and just random place people into groups and disable the role system for the normal part since that system likely relies on heavy code to make it work properly disabling it would deal with a lot of issues I think on that front. Roles should still remain for vet because of how vital they are there. Another is maybe outsourcing it to another server. Which could help deal with the issues that the finder is causing.
World of Warcraft has 241 North American realms. True, some are fuller than others. ESO has a single mega server.
And yet, WoW can flawlessly put groups together with players across 241 different servers to run dungeons and raids. (Raids are what ESO calls trials)
This is a black eye for Zenimax Studios. It's an embarrassment that they cannot get this right.
You cannot compare ESO to WoW. That's apples and oranges even in the gaming world. Blizzard is the top company in the world in terms of game development, with the money of Activision on their side as well. Blizzard can AFFORD that many servers. Zenimax doesn't have as much income generated - YET.
Also, there are pros and cons to having multiple servers versus a giant one. It USED to be that you could only find people on YOUR server in Blizz; they had to change that because many servers didn't have many people (or it was skewed to one side or the other). ESO has the advantage of never being alone when you need people. Unfortunately, with one server, if there are problems then the whole server has to be shut down. Zenimax seems to know what they're doing so the game isn't shut down very long during reset (as opposed to Blizz, where they can't get things right so they end up shut down for several extra hours!)
ESO has only been out since 2014. WoW has been out since 2004, not to mention Blizzard was putting drawings together and planning in the 80's. Both Zenimax and Bethesda have decent experience together in RPG's but this is the first MMORPG they've really ever created. It is not easy to create an MMORPG that is successful: You can see that with every new DLC and expansion released where people have a conniption fit about being unhappy. Every two years Blizzard is able to successfully put out a complete overhaul on their game. If you take 2014 ESO and compare it to 2020 ESO, there are SOME differences, but Glenumbra 2014 is the same as Glenumbra 2020. What I'm saying is it is still roughly the same concept. There hasn't been a texture update, a combat overhaul, etc.
Apples. Oranges. You have GOT to give Zenimax and ZoS time to get some more experience and money under their belts!
Zenimax needs more money and a bigger team and I don't know how they're going to get it. They may be stuck like this forever, they may find a way to surpass anything they have ever dreamt. But please, give them time and stop comparing ESo to other games and Zenimax to other companies.
Give them time?
5 years the game has been out and this feature, a staple in multiplayer games, should've been ironed out before launch.
No offense, but this takes being an apologist to new heights.
And just to clarify, I'm not comparing games, I'm trying to understand how one company can successfully put multiple realms together with a far larger playerbase, and lamenting how another company can't seem to put 4 people together on a single server.
It's pretty ridiculous.
Edit to add: Yes, WoW will shut down for several hours to fix something, but it's done that day. If ESO breaks something, you're stuck with that broken mechanic for 3 months if not forever. Let's face it, they often cannot fix what they break.
I hate WoW with a passion, but no one can argue that thier game works, and if it doesn't they fix it right away. Truly wish Zos could learn that.Edited by Kel on January 9, 2020 2:03PM6 -
tkgaines_ESO✭✭Thevampirenight wrote: »To many players and way to many calculations. Players might not agree with this but I do 95 percent the main source of the troubles is the way the group finder is coded and the number of calculations it has to perform.
See this is what I don't get, at it's heart its a simple database query with like 5 or so categories of data beyond player id. What like Role, returning player, time, dungeon, level. You have one process that adds a player to the queue "database", one process that queries to match four players, and one that takes that output and sends invitations and returns the players to queue if the group doesn't successfully form. Of those three processes, the player matching part should be the most reliable, cause computers are really really good at that.1 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Beastygrowls wrote: »
Apples. Oranges. You have GOT to give Zenimax and ZoS time to get some more experience and money under their belts!
Sure. No other MMO I played with an Auto group system made one that crashed the server itself. GG to them.2 -
Jaxious79✭✭✭✭tkgaines_ESO wrote: »Thevampirenight wrote: »To many players and way to many calculations. Players might not agree with this but I do 95 percent the main source of the troubles is the way the group finder is coded and the number of calculations it has to perform.
See this is what I don't get, at it's heart its a simple database query with like 5 or so categories of data beyond player id. What like Role, returning player, time, dungeon, level. You have one process that adds a player to the queue "database", one process that queries to match four players, and one that takes that output and sends invitations and returns the players to queue if the group doesn't successfully form. Of those three processes, the player matching part should be the most reliable, cause computers are really really good at that.
You are missing a major part though. The database query is not infinite. There are only certain number of entries it can process. Due to the increasing population there are more people queuing. If the system is full then some people will actually have to wait to be placed in the queue. Even the best technology still has limitations.
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Pyvos✭✭✭✭You are missing a major part though. The database query is not infinite. There are only certain number of entries it can process. Due to the increasing population there are more people queuing. If the system is full then some people will actually have to wait to be placed in the queue. Even the best technology still has limitations.
Database systems like Cassandra and ScyllaDB are capable performing hundreds of thousands of read OPS (ScyllaDB can typically do it within about 40ms whereas Cassandra typically hits about 500ms). Heck, ScyllaDB hit a billion rows per second last November. So yes, while you are correct that they are not infinite, there is little reason why the database servers should be the limiting factor here. Either they're not deployed at a sufficient scale, they're using the wrong database server software, or the bottleneck is elsewhere.4 -
Jaxious79✭✭✭✭increasing population ? in pc Na there are much less people
Nah see someone posted a couple months ago steam charts. They tried to claim it showed a decline but what it actually showed was Every month except two were up from the previous year.
Now if you have any data to show a decline feel free to post it. A couple nights ago I was in Alikin Desert. In all my time in ESO I have never seen that many people farming the Dolmens. It was insane.1 -
5cript✭✭✭✭increasing population ? in pc Na there are much less people
If you're running around in the world, you see massive amounts of people. Can't go in a delve to grab a skyshard without running into at least 4 peeps in there and couple more on the way. (PC EU)
Edited by 5cript on January 9, 2020 3:36PM0 -
Onigar✭✭✭while this thread has maybe gone off topic the recent comments are interesting.
In another MMO i played the instance management was shown by a choice window that allowed you to select a particular instance.
If an instance did not have sufficient population then it was disabled.
1. It allowed for such things as lore based activities away from the mainstream pvp and pve.
2. Some used a certain instance number for large group content, so if you went there you had a good chance of joining the large group you were looking for.
3. There were other activities in a certain numbers too that was useful to check in with.
Of course such a change is not practical within ESO as the chat system is zone based rather than world based but maybe there could be special world based instance sign up in the chat options where a player can get messages from "instances" where there are activities of interest.
It also supported farmers who could run a farming loop and then transfer to another instance but as everything at nodes was random I am not sure this really helped.
Now I do realise ZOS has a policy of not taking suggestions from players but in fact I guess I lied and in real I was visiting the Zenimax Dev Team but for some reason I was put in an area where devs were talking and the above is a summary of what they said so in real I have no claim to the ideas
Edit: typoEdited by Onigar on January 16, 2020 11:43AM0 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭I always assumed its cos everyone is a DD character. I mained a dd since 2016 and thought the hour wait was normal. Started a healer a month or two ago and groups pop almost instantly now 🤷🏻♂️0
