Thevampirenight wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Or they could just make all groups 5 person. tank healer 3 dps. And make playing a healer or tank more rewarding. Especially playing a tank. Tanking in this game is a horrible mess. The problem is everyone wants to play a DPS, a few people want to play a healer and no sane person wants to be the tank.

That wouldn't work out so great for those serious tanks there would be more that would just fake tank it because fake tanking it rewards better then dpsing or healing. That makes it unfair for the other two roles plus causes the same issues. If the rewards are so great everyone would queue for tank and be fake tanks but all dps in reality or healers. That could just invert things or change things around with more people wanting to be fake tanks then dps or healer it would likely not solve it. But I could be wrong. The role system just doesn't need to be there for normal dungeons. Its holding the group finder back. That is how I see it. Adding an extra dps might help a little bit but still wouldn't fix anything. It would be a temp fix at best. But with events like the undaunted event it wouldn't do much if anything because there would still be overflowing numbers of people queued up and not enough tanks or healers.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

The Role system places players in a group based on a role. Of course not always players true to the roles. Some players just select one role just to get into a group faster. Here is the core of the problem with the group finder and whats holding it back and causing great strain on it. There are more players waiting then dungeons getting filled. Under this system. Group dynamic. is something like 2 dps, one tank one healer a system that isn't optional. Because there is many that just want to fast kill things and get their daily reward. There are far more dps then there are tanks or healers this boggles up the system forcing groups to have a healer or a tank. This causes long waiting periods, Unless you queue up as a tank or healer. Then its faster because there is more need for tanks and healers then there is for dps. To fix the issue will require removing the role system requirements all together for Normal dungeons maybe keep it for the vet dungeons.

What this would do is prevent the system from being so boggled down with requests as there will always be more dps then healers or tanks. So it would all be random but because of the dynamics you will likely see a lot more of groups consisting of four players all dps and for normal dungeons this might be all that needed anyway. As tanks and healers are not as important as the most harder content they have in the game. I know players might not like this idea but I think it has to be done to make the group finder work and also make events like the undaunted event even possible.

So boons from removal of role requirements for normal difficulty version of the group finder.
System isn't boggled down by requests
Dungeons queue a lot faster placing less strain on the group finder.
Lag might be reduced because the system isn't as overloaded with players trying to get into a queue they would already be in the dungeons they queued up with the role requirements removed.
Group Finder will be more functional and it wouldn't be boggled down as it is now.

Cons
Content might be more difficult without a healer or tank in some cases but not as needed in Normal dungeons. So removing the group requirements for normal dungeons might leader to it being slightly more difficult depending on the content.
Players might rage quit queues because they might consider the dynamic unfair.

bmnoble wrote: »

Make a DPS benchmark test a requirement to unlock the option to queue as a DPS, not a large requirement like people expect to join trials, somewhere around 15K - 20K min damage per second once you hit CP160 that way you at least get 30- 40K group DPS from the Damage dealers instead of a combined 10K which I have experienced.

Before that players reach CP160 they are exempt since they are still leveling and may not have all their skills yet.

If people playing the support roles could know for certain that they were going to get 2 damage dealers capable of doing enough damage to clear the dungeon provided they do their support jobs right, then they would be more likely to use the group finder, hell it would be good even if you got a fake healer for the tank to know the group they will get will be able to do the content fairly well.


What drives them away is groups that struggle to clear the trash mobs, struggle with each boss fight, due to low DPS making a dungeon a slog that might not even be finished thus a waste of time.



For example, been farming Sanctuary set pieces on my tank, did a run through of Banished Cells 2 not too long ago:

Got a fake healer, no big issue I have a resto back bar, so I both tanked and healed the dungeon, the group struggles on every boss, I keep the bosses focused on me, keep them all healed provide resources with orbs, debuff the boss, group the ads, takes a bit of time but we get through all the bosses till the last one.

I keep the boss focused on me and all the Daedroths he summons focused on me, while keeping these 3 DPS alive.

Of course you would expect everything to go fine based on what I have said, 3 DPS and a tank/healer.

Things don't go fine, the DPS don't seem to have a clue about the orbs that heal the boss, even after explaining it to them in chat, they expect me to deal with them, and for awhile I do, that is until I have about 12 Daedroths focused on me and can't even see the dam things anymore.

Anyway I carried on kept these 3 alive the lowest they manage to get the bosses health to is 70%, around that point I am no longer able to deal with the orbs, despite me keeping the boss as far away as I can from where the orbs spawn, so they should have plenty of time to intercept them.

I keep the Daedroths focused on me as well as the bosses, provide heals when a stray Daedroth reks one of the DPS who managed to aggro it.

None of the DPS have died at all during the fight, mind you, they either develop tunnel vision on the boss or start trying to kill some of the Daedroths (which spawn faster than this lot can kill them)

Eventually though gets to about 18 Daedroths by this point I cant even see them to be able to target them to draw them to me so a handful of Daedroths start killing these 3 DPS off, none of them bothers to trying to rez anyone, so I do, each DPS dies at least once but I get them back up fairly quick.

The problem is while I am wasting time reviving this lot, I start to lose control of more of the Daedroths and the DPS start dropping like flies.

Once all three are down, I can't rez them fast enough to prevent them being killed again, eventually the enemies overwhelm my tank and the group wipes.

That last fight was around 30 minutes, in addition to about the 25 minutes clearing the rest of the dungeon before hand. None of them died till the last 5 minutes of that 30 minutes they were active and supposedly doing damage the whole time.

Group refused to kick anyone after this, I give them one more shot in the hopes that they have learnt something.

Same exact crap happening again, DPS ignoring the orbs, same tunnel vision on the boss or the Daedroths no real progress on either.

15 minutes into this second attempt at the final boss, I cut my losses, telling them in chat the DPS was way to low and leaving group. God help the tank that got brought in as a replacement afterwards.


Now had this been Vet I could have understood low DPS, but this was on NORMAL, all three DPS were above CP160, the lower level groups I had, during the day before this did not struggle as much.


I have had similar bad runs to this but most of those were in DLC dungeons but every now and then I am surprised to have something like this happen in one of the base game dungeons. (couple other examples DPS who did not know how to break free in Direfrost's last boss, seems to happen a lot and a group of CP810's that took an hour to clear City of Ash 2 due to low DPS)


This kinda stuff drives people away from using the group finder, I still do on occasion because I still get plenty of good groups but having a few bad groups waste an hour or more of your time, even if it only happens once in a day of play, let alone the unlucky days when it happens repeatedly, does nothing to make people want to use the group finder more often.

MerguezMan wrote: »

I see 2 issues:
- the queues take wayyyyy too long, probably because the GF can't find 1 tank, 1 healer and 2 dds to pair together. Or because the GF is deeply broken.
- players enlist as fake tanks or healers, which can make the dungeon way harder.

There are several ways to fix this:
- Add an option for disabling roles. You do understand the possible results and accept to attempt the dungeon as 4 whatever-role players. Maybe 4 tanks, or 4 healers, who knows ? (the next thing you would ask would probably be "disable penalty for leaving role-disabled group", but hey, you did accept the full random thing as a start, eat it up !)
- Add a "meter" displayed before queueing, that shows how many tanks, healers and dds are currently doing and/or searching dungeons (something like Alliance player meters before entering pvp campaign), so you know which role to enlist as for fast(er) matching.
- Add conditions to enlist in search as a given role (you need at least 1 taunt skill to be tank, 1 group heal to be healer - and more statistics on veteran mode)