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Drain Stun Vampire OP
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WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭Thank you everyone for their response. I think it clearly shows this skill is out of line with the rest of the game and needs adjustment. @ZOS_GinaBruno Please have this on the roadmap to adjust next patch. The use of this skills keeps growning fast as people all want something broken than actually making an effort. Please adjust this in 2 ways.
1. Reduce damage output, stun plus high damage is not allowed
2. Please adjust the buggy break free
Thank you.Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only2 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You're right, I misspoke.It's 5 ticks for accelerating drain and 4 ticks at base ability form. You can check for evidence on previous page.
OK, but over the course of a full channel Sweeps is more than twice as powerful as Drain, heals for much more, does AOE damage, applies a snare 4 times per second ... should we nerf that as well? Because I'd be perfectly fine with that.Cancelling it after 0,7-1 sec makes it basically equaly strong or even stronger then jabs with the difference it's more bursty , cheaper , have an undodgable stun and gives You a speed buff and it's also easier to hit specific enemy with it then with jabs higher value. Within 0,7 sec You'll get 2 ticks out of it and those 2 ticks are daling around 30% more damage then regular spammable ability and You still can follow it up with another ability without wasting global cooldowns.
You're not seing masses of people using it simply because it was not popularised on YT on any other media very massively
but that doesnt change a fact skill itself is overloaded. It's not the 1st thing that was going under a radar for quite some time.
No jabs are not over 2 times more powerfull. At base 3 casts of jabs will give You around 35% more damage then full cast of accelerating drain. Scaling for higher jabs component is equal to $1 = 0.0387917 Mag + 0.407949 SD when scaling of accelerating drain is $1 = 0.0594602 Mag + 0.623242 SD. In 3 seconds if You can get 12 ticks of jabs (light attack weaving makes it more then 3 seconds) and 5 ticks of accelerating drain (6 if You'll decide to block cancel it every 2 ticks). So we're getting amount of raw damage for jabs equall to $1 = 0,47 Mag + 4,8 SD when amount of raw damage for 5 ticks of accelerating drain is $1 = 0,3 Mag + 3,1 SD which makes accelerating drain fully casted only ~35% weaker then 3 casts of jabs.
That's a lot of math. I'm not good at math & I don't even know what the dollar signs mean in this context, so let's just keep this simple:
Drain: 472 * 5 = 2360 over 3 seconds
Jabs: 341 * 4 = 1364 * 3 = 4,092 over 3 seconds
Burning Light = 529 * 3 procs = 1,587 over 3 seconds
So unless I'm missing something, on average Jabs will do 5,679 vs 2,360 for Drain — more than twice as much damage over 3 seconds. Am I missing something?
1. I agree. It's cheap & they should raise the cost.I think I dont have to mention how much cheaper it is to cast accelerating drain once vs casting jabs 3 times. It's also way easier to target enemy with drain. Undodgable stun beats 40% snare always when You're trying to create burst combo and kill someone. Also drain gives You 20 seconds of minor expedition buff. When it comes to heal it depends how much health You had when casting drain. In certain situation heal from 1 cast of accelerating drain can outheal 3 casts of jabs since it heals You for 75% of missing health but it's pretty niche scenario.
2. Jabs reapplies a snare every 1/4 of a second whereas Drain gives you CC immunity once you break free. I'd prefer getting the latter.
3. I don't see the major expedition as anything special, but that's probably because I always have Race Against Time slotted, so YYMV on this one.
4. I don't have a Templar handy to compare the healing so I honestly don't know how it stacks up against drain, but I can tell you that it's impossible to get a 75% heal. Even if you start out near death (for example, let's say you have 1k left out of 20k) and all the stars align correctly & you get all 5 ticks off without someone *** you with a burst combo while you're channeling for 3 seconds, the healing would be: 2850 + 2572 + 2036 + 1731 + 1621 = 10,810, which would mean you'd heal for 54% of your health (56% of your missing health.) How that compares to Jabs, I honestly couldn't say. What I can tell you though, is that when I used it the heal never did close to that.
LOL, no it doesn't. Yes, Drain is brainless — but so is Jabs/Sweeps.Jabs still require some minimum amount of brain cells to use. Accelerating drain does not while being very strong ability.Edited by Langeston on January 2, 2020 8:07PM5 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thank you everyone for their response. I think it clearly shows this skill is out of line with the rest of the game and needs adjustment.
Yeah, if you ignore all the people that disagree with you. (11+ posts on the first page alone.) Imagine that: a nerf thread where there are people agree that the thing they want nerfed should get nerfed.Edited by Langeston on January 2, 2020 8:11AM6 -
WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭Thank you everyone for their response. I think it clearly shows this skill is out of line with the rest of the game and needs adjustment.
Yeah, if you ignore all the people that disagree with you. (11+ posts on the first page alone.) Imagine that: a nerf thread where there are people agree that the thing they want nerfed should get nerfed.
Yes that the thing seriously. If many people want something nerfed in a 5 page response tread it has the support of the base of users. If this was a please nerf flame lash this page would have gotten no response.
Many people put in lot off effort in providing data and creating a picture of how this skill fits with the rest ZOS gives us. Based on that is becomes really clear it offers to much, CC, Damage, Costs and a major factor that is up to ZOS the Buggy break free.Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only3 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What they could do instead of just nerfing it, make it cost more at stage one but have that powerful drain effect to it. Do less damage over the various stages but have it cost less but keep the stun effect. So if you want to have a powerful drain effect. Where it does very good damage, have to be stage one for that to happen.
So higher stages like stage four it would have reduced cost but lower stages such as stage one the ability would be more powerful. So if players want to have real use of the full potential of the ability have to be stage one if they want a more cost effiecent ability have to be higher stage like 2 to 4. I think in a way this could balance it out. Why not do everyone suggestion?
People get the nerf they want because vampirism is more beneficial when not fed Currently. Plus so many uses up the vampire stage thus would with continued use it would be nerfed but cost less.
Players keep the ability as it is but with the effect of it costing more at stage one So they don't really get nerfed in that regard if the ability scales on your stage of vampirsm. Hence aka stage 1 more powerful and op Drain essence ability. Higher stages meaning ability is watered down.
It would require you to choose between cost effectiveness or damage. So having that equilibrium would be a nice touch. Plus give players the reason to actually feed and make it feel more like a vampire. In fact they should buff mist form and bats in the same way. More powerful at stage one but more cost efficient at later stages.
For example I think bat swarm does something like 1500 damage per tick just an estimate plus more damage based on stats and cp points. Now what they can do is make that abiltiy do 2200 per tick at stage one then 1900 at stage two, 1750 at stage three and 1500 at stage four.
Baleful mist, 1600 damage per tic at stage one, 1000 damage per tic at stage two, 500 damage per tic stage three 100 damage per tick stage four. That would make that ability and morph far more worth it. Since it isn't a good damage ability and should have more damage.
So I think they should make the whole vampire line more useful. Based on weather or not your fed or staving.Edited by Thevampirenight on January 2, 2020 8:54AMPC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thank you everyone for their response. I think it clearly shows this skill is out of line with the rest of the game and needs adjustment.
Yeah, if you ignore all the people that disagree with you. (11+ posts on the first page alone.) Imagine that: a nerf thread where there are people agree that the thing they want nerfed should get nerfed.
Yes that the thing seriously. If many people want something nerfed in a 5 page response tread it has the support of the base of users. If this was a please nerf flame lash this page would have gotten no response.
Many people put in lot off effort in providing data and creating a picture of how this skill fits with the rest ZOS gives us. Based on that is becomes really clear it offers to much, CC, Damage, Costs and a major factor that is up to ZOS the Buggy break free.
This forum thread isn't the "base of users", it's a tiny fraction of forum users, which is in turn a tiny fraction of ESO users. Regardless as to what you think, there isn't even a consensus in this thread let alone among ZOS's user base.
I don't even use the skill anymore & I'm a [snip] magblade — if the weakest class in the game takes a pass on it, it can't be that OP.
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 26, 2025 6:48PM4 -
WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭Thank you everyone for their response. I think it clearly shows this skill is out of line with the rest of the game and needs adjustment.
Yeah, if you ignore all the people that disagree with you. (11+ posts on the first page alone.) Imagine that: a nerf thread where there are people agree that the thing they want nerfed should get nerfed.
Yes that the thing seriously. If many people want something nerfed in a 5 page response tread it has the support of the base of users. If this was a please nerf flame lash this page would have gotten no response.
Many people put in lot off effort in providing data and creating a picture of how this skill fits with the rest ZOS gives us. Based on that is becomes really clear it offers to much, CC, Damage, Costs and a major factor that is up to ZOS the Buggy break free.
This forum thread isn't the "base of users", it's a tiny fraction of forum users, which is in turn a tiny fraction of ESO users. Regardless as to what you think, there isn't even a consensus in this thread let alone among ZOS's user base.
I don't even use the skill anymore & I'm a [snip] magblade — if the weakest class in the game takes a pass on it, it can't be that OP.
I disargee, you can never ask everyone, so need to have a part of the larger community and within that part forums are used to get a impression of the users experiences. The knights for the skill did not reached to a better conclusion than necro and warden don't have access to good stun. While objectively regardsless of the class this skill compared to other skills really shows it is out of balance.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 26, 2025 6:49PMXbox EU & NA - PVP Only1 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thevampirenight wrote: »What they could do instead of just nerfing it, make it cost more at stage one but have that powerful drain effect to it. Do less damage over the various stages but have it cost less but keep the stun effect. So if you want to have a powerful drain effect. Where it does very good damage, have to be stage one for that to happen.
So higher stages like stage four it would have reduced cost but lower stages such as stage one the ability would be more powerful. So if players want to have real use of the full potential of the ability have to be stage one if they want a more cost effiecent ability have to be higher stage like 2 to 4. I think in a way this could balance it out. Why not do everyone suggestion?
People get the nerf they want because vampirism is more beneficial when not fed Currently. Plus so many uses up the vampire stage thus would with continued use it would be nerfed but cost less.
Players keep the ability as it is but with the effect of it costing more at stage one So they don't really get nerfed in that regard if the ability scales on your stage of vampirsm. Hence aka stage 1 more powerful and op Drain essence ability. Higher stages meaning ability is watered down.
It would require you to choose between cost effectiveness or damage. So having that equilibrium would be a nice touch. Plus give players the reason to actually feed and make it feel more like a vampire. In fact they should buff mist form and bats in the same way. More powerful at stage one but more cost efficient at later stages.
For example I think bat swarm does something like 1500 damage per tick just an estimate plus more damage based on stats and cp points. Now what they can do is make that abiltiy do 2200 per tick at stage one then 1900 at stage two, 1750 at stage three and 1500 at stage four.
Baleful mist, 1600 damage per tic at stage one, 1000 damage per tic at stage two, 500 damage per tic stage three 100 damage per tick stage four. That would make that ability and morph far more worth it. Since it isn't a good damage ability and should have more damage.
So I think they should make the whole vampire line more useful. Based on weather or not your fed or staving.
With all due respect, I think that would be terrible. +25% flame damage taken at stage 4 is a huge liability, especially with everyone & their brother playing as MagDK right now. Stage 1 vampirism has literally ZERO drawbacks and you want that stage to have the most lethal abilities? No thank you.2 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thank you everyone for their response. I think it clearly shows this skill is out of line with the rest of the game and needs adjustment.
Yeah, if you ignore all the people that disagree with you. (11+ posts on the first page alone.) Imagine that: a nerf thread where there are people agree that the thing they want nerfed should get nerfed.
Yes that the thing seriously. If many people want something nerfed in a 5 page response tread it has the support of the base of users. If this was a please nerf flame lash this page would have gotten no response.
Many people put in lot off effort in providing data and creating a picture of how this skill fits with the rest ZOS gives us. Based on that is becomes really clear it offers to much, CC, Damage, Costs and a major factor that is up to ZOS the Buggy break free.
This forum thread isn't the "base of users", it's a tiny fraction of forum users, which is in turn a tiny fraction of ESO users. Regardless as to what you think, there isn't even a consensus in this thread let alone among ZOS's user base.
I don't even use the skill anymore & I'm a [snip] magblade — if the weakest class in the game takes a pass on it, it can't be that OP.
I disargee, you can never ask everyone, so need to have a part of the larger community and within that part forums are used to get a impression of the users experiences. The knights for the skill did not reached to a better conclusion than necro and warden don't have access to good stun. While objectively regardsless of the class this skill compared to other skills really shows it is out of balance.
Huh? The "knights for the skill" (if that's what we're called now) simply said the ability isn't that a big of a deal as it is, and nerfing it would only cause no one to use it at all.
The funny thing is, judging by your post history you play a MagDK — so apparently you're cool with being able to do +25% damage to vampires, but you don't want them to be able to fight back. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, that sounds about par for the course for this forum.
[edit] And I don't mean this to be rude, but if as a Magicka Dragonknight you're having difficulty killing NBs because of cloak or vampires because of drain, then the problem isn't their class or skills — it's your current skill level.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 26, 2025 6:49PM6 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thevampirenight wrote: »What they could do instead of just nerfing it, make it cost more at stage one but have that powerful drain effect to it. Do less damage over the various stages but have it cost less but keep the stun effect. So if you want to have a powerful drain effect. Where it does very good damage, have to be stage one for that to happen.
So higher stages like stage four it would have reduced cost but lower stages such as stage one the ability would be more powerful. So if players want to have real use of the full potential of the ability have to be stage one if they want a more cost effiecent ability have to be higher stage like 2 to 4. I think in a way this could balance it out. Why not do everyone suggestion?
People get the nerf they want because vampirism is more beneficial when not fed Currently. Plus so many uses up the vampire stage thus would with continued use it would be nerfed but cost less.
Players keep the ability as it is but with the effect of it costing more at stage one So they don't really get nerfed in that regard if the ability scales on your stage of vampirsm. Hence aka stage 1 more powerful and op Drain essence ability. Higher stages meaning ability is watered down.
It would require you to choose between cost effectiveness or damage. So having that equilibrium would be a nice touch. Plus give players the reason to actually feed and make it feel more like a vampire. In fact they should buff mist form and bats in the same way. More powerful at stage one but more cost efficient at later stages.
For example I think bat swarm does something like 1500 damage per tick just an estimate plus more damage based on stats and cp points. Now what they can do is make that abiltiy do 2200 per tick at stage one then 1900 at stage two, 1750 at stage three and 1500 at stage four.
Baleful mist, 1600 damage per tic at stage one, 1000 damage per tic at stage two, 500 damage per tic stage three 100 damage per tick stage four. That would make that ability and morph far more worth it. Since it isn't a good damage ability and should have more damage.
So I think they should make the whole vampire line more useful. Based on weather or not your fed or staving.
With all due respect, I think that would be terrible. +25% flame damage taken at stage 4 is a huge liability, especially with everyone & their brother playing as MagDK right now. Stage 1 vampirism has literally ZERO drawbacks and you want that stage to have the most lethal abilities? No thank you.
They could adjust the blood pool effect or stage timer. So the more uses of certain abilties the faster it goes down. Say you use one bat swarm, one bat swarm 30 minutes off but second use of bat swarm 1 hour off and so forth. They can balance it on how much it is used in quick succession. Stage time is six hours, 30 minutes off first cast, 1 hour off second cast so 1 hour 30 minutes off with just two casts of the ability then third cast would be double that amount taking off another 1 hour 30 minutes then fourth ability would take off 2 hours . 30 plus 60 plus 90 plus 120 in terms of minutes. Something to that effect the more you use the abilities the faster the stage timer goes down. But resetting when you get to stage 2, going from 30 minutes off too an hour and then an hour an a half to two hours. So the idea is counter balancing it so players would have to constantly feed to actually benefit from it. Maybe having to keep downing bloody maras while in combat. Doing it this way might make it more situational and thus preventing players from just spamming things all the time. The more you use the quicker your hunger grows the weaker you become. So you would have to plan the attacks carefully but they can bring together the whole vampire abilties to run off one blood pool so the timer would increase no matter what you use say for example you use three drains that is 1 hour 30 minutes off the bat swarm takes off 2 hours from the stage timer.
So the idea is making it so its rewarding but also punishing. Stage one might not have any fire weakness does not mean casting the abilities will just leave you a powerful vampire with no weakness the blood pool effect would be a weakness because you can only cast so many times before your go to the next stage. If it shares a blood pool then you would be limited even more when it comes to vampire ability damage. It doesn't have to be as strong as I gave an example of. Can even be even a bit stronger but maybe by 5 or ten percent or even twenty percent at stage one. When it comes to bat swarm. Drain essence could be where it is right now. At stage one but would be in a nerfed state by the time your at stage four.
Also having to keep drinking either blood from a foe or bloody maras and in the second case would also limit you when it comes to a food buff or other drink. If you are using something else you would have to sacrifice that to keep up the vampiric state. This can reflect the curse that it is and their constant need to feed. Since you would have to reply that after each drink I think because you can only have one food or drink buff at a time so there is that disadvantage. If you pvp and have the blood pool effect the way I suggest you would have to drink like 3 bloody maras to go back to stage one. So yeah that is also another disavantage. Got to keep drinking them.Edited by Thevampirenight on January 2, 2020 10:06AMPC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thevampirenight wrote: »Thevampirenight wrote: »What they could do instead of just nerfing it, make it cost more at stage one but have that powerful drain effect to it. Do less damage over the various stages but have it cost less but keep the stun effect. So if you want to have a powerful drain effect. Where it does very good damage, have to be stage one for that to happen.
So higher stages like stage four it would have reduced cost but lower stages such as stage one the ability would be more powerful. So if players want to have real use of the full potential of the ability have to be stage one if they want a more cost effiecent ability have to be higher stage like 2 to 4. I think in a way this could balance it out. Why not do everyone suggestion?
People get the nerf they want because vampirism is more beneficial when not fed Currently. Plus so many uses up the vampire stage thus would with continued use it would be nerfed but cost less.
Players keep the ability as it is but with the effect of it costing more at stage one So they don't really get nerfed in that regard if the ability scales on your stage of vampirsm. Hence aka stage 1 more powerful and op Drain essence ability. Higher stages meaning ability is watered down.
It would require you to choose between cost effectiveness or damage. So having that equilibrium would be a nice touch. Plus give players the reason to actually feed and make it feel more like a vampire. In fact they should buff mist form and bats in the same way. More powerful at stage one but more cost efficient at later stages.
For example I think bat swarm does something like 1500 damage per tick just an estimate plus more damage based on stats and cp points. Now what they can do is make that abiltiy do 2200 per tick at stage one then 1900 at stage two, 1750 at stage three and 1500 at stage four.
Baleful mist, 1600 damage per tic at stage one, 1000 damage per tic at stage two, 500 damage per tic stage three 100 damage per tick stage four. That would make that ability and morph far more worth it. Since it isn't a good damage ability and should have more damage.
So I think they should make the whole vampire line more useful. Based on weather or not your fed or staving.
With all due respect, I think that would be terrible. +25% flame damage taken at stage 4 is a huge liability, especially with everyone & their brother playing as MagDK right now. Stage 1 vampirism has literally ZERO drawbacks and you want that stage to have the most lethal abilities? No thank you.
They could adjust the blood pool effect or stage timer. So the more uses of certain abilties the faster it goes down. Say you use one bat swarm, one bat swarm 30 minutes off but second use of bat swarm 1 hour off and so forth. They can balance it on how much it is used in quick succession. Stage time is six hours, 30 minutes off first cast, 1 hour off second cast so 1 hour 30 minutes off with just two casts of the ability then third cast would be double that amount taking off another 1 hour 30 minutes then fourth ability would take off 2 hours . 30 plus 60 plus 90 plus 120 in terms of minutes. Something to that effect the more you use the abilities the faster the stage timer goes down. But resetting when you get to stage 2, going from 30 minutes off too an hour and then an hour an a half to two hours. So the idea is counter balancing it so players would have to constantly feed to actually benefit from it. Maybe having to keep downing bloody maras while in combat. Doing it this way might make it more situational and thus preventing players from just spamming things all the time. The more you use the quicker your hunger grows the weaker you become. So you would have to plan the attacks carefully but they can bring together the whole vampire abilties to run off one blood pool so the timer would increase no matter what you use say for example you use three drains that is 1 hour 30 minutes off the bat swarm takes off 2 hours from the stage timer.
So the idea is maybe making it so its rewarding but also punishing. Stage one might not have any fire weakness does not mean casting the abilities will just leave you a powerful vampire with no weakness the blood pool effect would be a weakness because you can only cast so many times before your go to the next stage. IF it shares a blood pool then you would be limited even more when it comes to vampire ability damage.
Yeah, I still don't like it.
To be honest, there's no really good way to do vampire stages in this game. According to most lore, a vampire is typically only stronger with fewer vulnerabilities than another vampire (of the same age) if the second vampire is hungry — and both would have the same level of vulnerability to fire. It's only older vampires that are more susceptible to fire, and they are also usually much more powerful. But age is not a variable in ESO, so they used well-fed vs hungry to delineate strength.
In ESO, a well-fed vampire basically has the characteristics of a young vampire (not as powerful, but not as susceptible to fire) while a hungry vampire has the characteristics of an elder vampire (more powerful, but fire is extremely dangerous to them.)
If anything, I think your idea would only make sense if it were implemented in the complete opposite way that you described it.Edited by Langeston on January 2, 2020 10:07AM0 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thevampirenight wrote: »Thevampirenight wrote: »What they could do instead of just nerfing it, make it cost more at stage one but have that powerful drain effect to it. Do less damage over the various stages but have it cost less but keep the stun effect. So if you want to have a powerful drain effect. Where it does very good damage, have to be stage one for that to happen.
So higher stages like stage four it would have reduced cost but lower stages such as stage one the ability would be more powerful. So if players want to have real use of the full potential of the ability have to be stage one if they want a more cost effiecent ability have to be higher stage like 2 to 4. I think in a way this could balance it out. Why not do everyone suggestion?
People get the nerf they want because vampirism is more beneficial when not fed Currently. Plus so many uses up the vampire stage thus would with continued use it would be nerfed but cost less.
Players keep the ability as it is but with the effect of it costing more at stage one So they don't really get nerfed in that regard if the ability scales on your stage of vampirsm. Hence aka stage 1 more powerful and op Drain essence ability. Higher stages meaning ability is watered down.
It would require you to choose between cost effectiveness or damage. So having that equilibrium would be a nice touch. Plus give players the reason to actually feed and make it feel more like a vampire. In fact they should buff mist form and bats in the same way. More powerful at stage one but more cost efficient at later stages.
For example I think bat swarm does something like 1500 damage per tick just an estimate plus more damage based on stats and cp points. Now what they can do is make that abiltiy do 2200 per tick at stage one then 1900 at stage two, 1750 at stage three and 1500 at stage four.
Baleful mist, 1600 damage per tic at stage one, 1000 damage per tic at stage two, 500 damage per tic stage three 100 damage per tick stage four. That would make that ability and morph far more worth it. Since it isn't a good damage ability and should have more damage.
So I think they should make the whole vampire line more useful. Based on weather or not your fed or staving.
With all due respect, I think that would be terrible. +25% flame damage taken at stage 4 is a huge liability, especially with everyone & their brother playing as MagDK right now. Stage 1 vampirism has literally ZERO drawbacks and you want that stage to have the most lethal abilities? No thank you.
They could adjust the blood pool effect or stage timer. So the more uses of certain abilties the faster it goes down. Say you use one bat swarm, one bat swarm 30 minutes off but second use of bat swarm 1 hour off and so forth. They can balance it on how much it is used in quick succession. Stage time is six hours, 30 minutes off first cast, 1 hour off second cast so 1 hour 30 minutes off with just two casts of the ability then third cast would be double that amount taking off another 1 hour 30 minutes then fourth ability would take off 2 hours . 30 plus 60 plus 90 plus 120 in terms of minutes. Something to that effect the more you use the abilities the faster the stage timer goes down. But resetting when you get to stage 2, going from 30 minutes off too an hour and then an hour an a half to two hours. So the idea is counter balancing it so players would have to constantly feed to actually benefit from it. Maybe having to keep downing bloody maras while in combat. Doing it this way might make it more situational and thus preventing players from just spamming things all the time. The more you use the quicker your hunger grows the weaker you become. So you would have to plan the attacks carefully but they can bring together the whole vampire abilties to run off one blood pool so the timer would increase no matter what you use say for example you use three drains that is 1 hour 30 minutes off the bat swarm takes off 2 hours from the stage timer.
So the idea is maybe making it so its rewarding but also punishing. Stage one might not have any fire weakness does not mean casting the abilities will just leave you a powerful vampire with no weakness the blood pool effect would be a weakness because you can only cast so many times before your go to the next stage. IF it shares a blood pool then you would be limited even more when it comes to vampire ability damage.
Yeah, I still don't like it.
To be honest, there's no really good way to do vampire stages in this game. According to most lore at least, a vampire is typically only stronger with fewer vulnerabilities than another vampire of the same age if the second vampire is hungry. (And both would have the same level of vulnerability to fire.) It's only older vampires that are more susceptible to fire, and they are also usually much more powerful. But age is not a variable in ESO, so they used well-fed vs hungry to delineate strength.
In ESO, a well-fed vampire basically has the characteristics of a young vampire (not as powerful, but not as susceptible to fire) while a hungry vampire has the characteristics of an elder vampire (more powerful, but fire is extremely dangerous to them.)
If anything, I think your idea would only make sense if it were implemented in the complete opposite way that you described it.
I think the vampire growing stronger while more thirsty instead of not growing weaker which is the case with some vampires that require blood to even function like Count of Skingrads wife in Elder Scrolls Oblivion is kinda stupid. That is why I want to see it reversed. Vampires most powerful when well fed, weaker when not fed enough. That gives people a reason to actually feed and well right now they don't have that. Vampirism isn't just some passive buff benefit with a sunlight or fire weakness its a curse too with draw backs like constantly hungering for the blood of others. The thirstier you are the more you are likely to attack others. Just by being near you. Mechanics and the way the game is. You can stay forever without feeding and there is more benefit from not feeding then there is from keeping fed and healthy. Sure you might have a surge of frenzy that brings an adrenaline rush that might give the the vampire strength to at least be able to chase after its meals. But they still would be and should be weak. Because they are very thirsty they would not be thinking straight an thus more feral like but also more sluggish.Edited by Thevampirenight on January 2, 2020 10:16AMPC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thevampirenight wrote: »Thevampirenight wrote: »Thevampirenight wrote: »What they could do instead of just nerfing it, make it cost more at stage one but have that powerful drain effect to it. Do less damage over the various stages but have it cost less but keep the stun effect. So if you want to have a powerful drain effect. Where it does very good damage, have to be stage one for that to happen.
So higher stages like stage four it would have reduced cost but lower stages such as stage one the ability would be more powerful. So if players want to have real use of the full potential of the ability have to be stage one if they want a more cost effiecent ability have to be higher stage like 2 to 4. I think in a way this could balance it out. Why not do everyone suggestion?
People get the nerf they want because vampirism is more beneficial when not fed Currently. Plus so many uses up the vampire stage thus would with continued use it would be nerfed but cost less.
Players keep the ability as it is but with the effect of it costing more at stage one So they don't really get nerfed in that regard if the ability scales on your stage of vampirsm. Hence aka stage 1 more powerful and op Drain essence ability. Higher stages meaning ability is watered down.
It would require you to choose between cost effectiveness or damage. So having that equilibrium would be a nice touch. Plus give players the reason to actually feed and make it feel more like a vampire. In fact they should buff mist form and bats in the same way. More powerful at stage one but more cost efficient at later stages.
For example I think bat swarm does something like 1500 damage per tick just an estimate plus more damage based on stats and cp points. Now what they can do is make that abiltiy do 2200 per tick at stage one then 1900 at stage two, 1750 at stage three and 1500 at stage four.
Baleful mist, 1600 damage per tic at stage one, 1000 damage per tic at stage two, 500 damage per tic stage three 100 damage per tick stage four. That would make that ability and morph far more worth it. Since it isn't a good damage ability and should have more damage.
So I think they should make the whole vampire line more useful. Based on weather or not your fed or staving.
With all due respect, I think that would be terrible. +25% flame damage taken at stage 4 is a huge liability, especially with everyone & their brother playing as MagDK right now. Stage 1 vampirism has literally ZERO drawbacks and you want that stage to have the most lethal abilities? No thank you.
They could adjust the blood pool effect or stage timer. So the more uses of certain abilties the faster it goes down. Say you use one bat swarm, one bat swarm 30 minutes off but second use of bat swarm 1 hour off and so forth. They can balance it on how much it is used in quick succession. Stage time is six hours, 30 minutes off first cast, 1 hour off second cast so 1 hour 30 minutes off with just two casts of the ability then third cast would be double that amount taking off another 1 hour 30 minutes then fourth ability would take off 2 hours . 30 plus 60 plus 90 plus 120 in terms of minutes. Something to that effect the more you use the abilities the faster the stage timer goes down. But resetting when you get to stage 2, going from 30 minutes off too an hour and then an hour an a half to two hours. So the idea is counter balancing it so players would have to constantly feed to actually benefit from it. Maybe having to keep downing bloody maras while in combat. Doing it this way might make it more situational and thus preventing players from just spamming things all the time. The more you use the quicker your hunger grows the weaker you become. So you would have to plan the attacks carefully but they can bring together the whole vampire abilties to run off one blood pool so the timer would increase no matter what you use say for example you use three drains that is 1 hour 30 minutes off the bat swarm takes off 2 hours from the stage timer.
So the idea is maybe making it so its rewarding but also punishing. Stage one might not have any fire weakness does not mean casting the abilities will just leave you a powerful vampire with no weakness the blood pool effect would be a weakness because you can only cast so many times before your go to the next stage. IF it shares a blood pool then you would be limited even more when it comes to vampire ability damage.
Yeah, I still don't like it.
To be honest, there's no really good way to do vampire stages in this game. According to most lore at least, a vampire is typically only stronger with fewer vulnerabilities than another vampire of the same age if the second vampire is hungry. (And both would have the same level of vulnerability to fire.) It's only older vampires that are more susceptible to fire, and they are also usually much more powerful. But age is not a variable in ESO, so they used well-fed vs hungry to delineate strength.
In ESO, a well-fed vampire basically has the characteristics of a young vampire (not as powerful, but not as susceptible to fire) while a hungry vampire has the characteristics of an elder vampire (more powerful, but fire is extremely dangerous to them.)
If anything, I think your idea would only make sense if it were implemented in the complete opposite way that you described it.
I think the vampire growing stronger while more thirsty instead of not growing weaker which is the case with some vampires that require blood to even function like Count of Skingrads wife in Elder Scrolls Oblivion. That is why I want to see it reversed. Vampires most powerful when well fed, weaker when not fed enough. That gives people a reason to actually feed and well right now they don't have that. Vampirism isn't just some passive buff benefit with a sunlight or fire weakness its a curse too with draw backs like constantly hungering for the blood of others. The thirstier you are the more you are likely to attack others. Just by being near you. Mechanics and the way the game is. You can stay forever without feeding and there is more benefit from not feeding then there is from keeping fed and healthy.
I understand & agree to a point, but like I said: there's no really good way to do vampire stages in this game. If well-fed vampires were lore-friendly they'd be the most powerful with the least number of deficiencies — but that would mean that no one would play as stage 4 because stage 1 would always be the best in all cases. So that's why ESO vampirism works the way it does, and unfortunately I don't see how it could work any differently unless they made age a variable. (Which wouldn't work because then people wouldn't be able bounce back & forth between stages, which would cause an uproar.) The system is imperfect, but it kind of has to work this way.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If you wanna make the stun deal no damage and even reduce the range, you better make it unblockable, too.
In that case they'd have to change it from a channeled ability to a cast ability too. Every time someone uses this skill they're making themselves completely vulnerable for 3 seconds unless they cancel it.
It's not as OP as everyone in this thread is making it seem. If it were, you'd see a lot more people using it.
Just a good stun accessible to all magicka players. The counterpart to Turn Undead. Absolutely fine with me.
It's in no way counterpart to Turn Undead. It's way stronger against single oponent and even when outnumbered it's decently strong.
No? It's not?
(o_ô)
So equivalent of undodgable dizzying swing with 10 meters range and stun that starts dealing damage instantly is weaker while consuming also 2 times less resources then Turn Undead ? Interresting.
Against single opponent it is stronger. Way stronger. Turn undead may be better when escaping some Xv1 but when fighting people accelerating drain beats it. To be fair I was even using accelerating drain to esape because I was just turning around using it on someone so there was minus 1 person chasing me and I gained additional minor expedition on top of the major expedition I have from race against time.
You weren't reading carefully. The topic was to remove the damage but make the stun unblockable. So yeah, a single-target Turn Undead.0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
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You're right, I misspoke.It's 5 ticks for accelerating drain and 4 ticks at base ability form. You can check for evidence on previous page.
OK, but over the course of a full channel Sweeps is more than twice as powerful as Drain, heals for much more, does AOE damage, applies a snare 4 times per second ... should we nerf that as well? Because I'd be perfectly fine with that.Cancelling it after 0,7-1 sec makes it basically equaly strong or even stronger then jabs with the difference it's more bursty , cheaper , have an undodgable stun and gives You a speed buff and it's also easier to hit specific enemy with it then with jabs higher value. Within 0,7 sec You'll get 2 ticks out of it and those 2 ticks are daling around 30% more damage then regular spammable ability and You still can follow it up with another ability without wasting global cooldowns.
You're not seing masses of people using it simply because it was not popularised on YT on any other media very massively
but that doesnt change a fact skill itself is overloaded. It's not the 1st thing that was going under a radar for quite some time.
No jabs are not over 2 times more powerfull. At base 3 casts of jabs will give You around 35% more damage then full cast of accelerating drain. Scaling for higher jabs component is equal to $1 = 0.0387917 Mag + 0.407949 SD when scaling of accelerating drain is $1 = 0.0594602 Mag + 0.623242 SD. In 3 seconds if You can get 12 ticks of jabs (light attack weaving makes it more then 3 seconds) and 5 ticks of accelerating drain (6 if You'll decide to block cancel it every 2 ticks). So we're getting amount of raw damage for jabs equall to $1 = 0,47 Mag + 4,8 SD when amount of raw damage for 5 ticks of accelerating drain is $1 = 0,3 Mag + 3,1 SD which makes accelerating drain fully casted only ~35% weaker then 3 casts of jabs.
That's a lot of math. I'm not good at math & I don't even know what the dollar signs mean in this context, so let's just keep this simple:
Drain: 472 * 5 = 2360 over 3 seconds
Jabs: 341 * 4 = 1364 * 3 = 4,092 over 3 seconds
Burning Light = 529 * 3 procs = 1,587 over 3 seconds
So unless I'm missing something, on average Jabs will do 5,679 vs 2,360 for Drain — almost exactly twice as much damage over 3 seconds. Am I missing something?
1. I agree. It's cheap & they should raise the cost.I think I dont have to mention how much cheaper it is to cast accelerating drain once vs casting jabs 3 times. It's also way easier to target enemy with drain. Undodgable stun beats 40% snare always when You're trying to create burst combo and kill someone. Also drain gives You 20 seconds of minor expedition buff. When it comes to heal it depends how much health You had when casting drain. In certain situation heal from 1 cast of accelerating drain can outheal 3 casts of jabs since it heals You for 75% of missing health but it's pretty niche scenario.
2. Jabs reapplies a snare every 1/4 of a second whereas Drain gives you CC immunity once you break free. I'd prefer getting the latter.
3. I don't see the major expedition as anything special, but that's probably because I always have Race Against Time slotted, so YYMV on this one.
4. I don't have a Templar handy to compare the healing so I honestly don't know how it stacks up against drain, but I can tell you that it's impossible to get a 75% heal. Even if you start out near death (for example, let's say you have 1k left out of 20k) and all the stars align correctly & you get all 5 ticks off without someone *** you with a burst combo while you're channeling for 3 seconds, the healing would be: 2850 + 2572 + 2036 + 1731 + 1621 = 10,810, which would mean you'd heal for 54% of your health (56% of your missing health.) How that compares to Jabs, I honestly couldn't say. What I can tell you though, is that when I used it the heal never did close to that.
LOL, no it doesn't. Yes, Drain is brainless — but so is Jabs/Sweeps.Jabs still require some minimum amount of brain cells to use. Accelerating drain does not while being very strong ability.
Umm it's pretty inetrresting way to make calculations for the ability the way You did especially that different websites sometimes show different tooltips. It's way better to check for scaling formula. But yeah with burning light overall damage of jabs will go definietly up. I dont know why You compare it to stamina based jabs and stamina based burning light value though. It's like You intentionally choosing higher values to support Your claims depsite the fact we are clearly talking about magicka jabs which would also proc magic damage burning light. Also If You want to bring argument of burning light You can also consider animation cancelling of drain which in 3 seconds will give 6 ticks so drain damage will also go up and jabs will still not be "more than twice as powerful as Drain".
Also yes when we'll add burning light passive damage to the table then 3x jabs will be definietly stronger then 1 cast of the drain but keep in mind that we're comparing 3 casts of the strongest spammable chanelled ability in the game combined with procs of the strongest damage dealing passive vs 1 cast of utility/stun ability that shouldnt even be considered as damage dealing ability yet it hold its ground pretty well. For example if You'll compare 3x cast of the force pulse vs 3x cast of the jabs+burning light then force pulse will look similarly weak. Drain is simply doing way too much damage.
I preffer to get undodgable stun right at the moment when my burst combo is landing. Snares can be avoided by snare immunity when they're applied , undodgable stun cannot be avoided unless You'll predict it being applied. Crippling mobility is still inferior to crippling all actions when needed especially when there is plenty of snares in the game but not that many undodgable , highly damaging stuns.
It gives minor expedition not major. It can be perfectly combined with race against time to get both minor and major expedition improving mobility and helping with escape which adds additional defensive feature to already offensively strong ability.
First tick of heal is the value for all the other ticks so You'll get 75% of initially missing HP as a heal. And while I agree in real fights heal from it wont be extremly great lets be honest in PvP heal from jabs also isnt the greatest due to how battle spirit works for that ability. I am starting to think You do not know much about this ability yet You're discussing the topic. Also Your math with missing health calculations is rigged but I dont want to go into details since post will be long enough already.
Jabs still requires more brain then drain does. Try to fight anyone with brain as templar and You'll know why. And definietly jabs are not allowing for such easy burst combos as drain. With drain You're literally getting 1 free global cooldown You normally would've spend for stunning someone so basically You're getting 1 free second during Your burst combo. Considering how broken that stun can be to break free sometimes it's even more free time. And decent burst combos damage windows usually lasts 2-3 seconds so Your burst combo with drain can go down to 1-2 seconds which basically makes Your combo 33-50% faster and also does more damage then other burst combos. That is insane improvement for certain setups. Accelerating drain is simply overloaded ability atm that goes against ZoS's rule of not having high damage abilities combined with stuns. It's literally better version of magicka dizzying swing before nerfs.
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Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭With the caveat that Dizzying Swing didn't come with a 25% fire weakness. It's not an eye-to-eye comparison.4 -
brtomkin✭✭✭Give the skill a unique concept: buff the damage significantly, but make it drain the casters health. There are a few skills in the game that cost health, but I can't think of any damage skills that cost health.
PS5 NA: Pickmans__Model, CP 2000+0 -
CynicK✭✭✭I agree that is a little bit too cheap for people that use accelerated drain as a damage source, that there are some, but then again my stamina vampire does little damage with it and is totally balanced for him, and with my magicka vampire that i have also the one that does charges ultimate I think is fine because it also has range limitation and when the healing is halved in pvp and it is channeled so if there is more than one enemy you receive more damage than you heal while channeling, if there is a problem I think it is with accelerated drain.
A normal spamable does more damage but costs more magicka too for me is not a problem so i use the spamable better range better damage and interrupt, i think it is a very poor man puncturing sweep 40% healing and much better damage as juhasow proved (that is the base skill damage) what can you do against a templar that when using his spamable heals for 20% the damage he does and has a charge that not only interrupts your spamable but stuns too he can use every six seconds and in a straight damage race he is always going to win because his spamable heals him, maybe accelerated drain needs a bit of adjusting but we do not have to let posts like this distract us of the real objective that is to NERF TEMPLARS!1 -
WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭Thank you everyone for their response. I think it clearly shows this skill is out of line with the rest of the game and needs adjustment.
Yeah, if you ignore all the people that disagree with you. (11+ posts on the first page alone.) Imagine that: a nerf thread where there are people agree that the thing they want nerfed should get nerfed.
Yes that the thing seriously. If many people want something nerfed in a 5 page response tread it has the support of the base of users. If this was a please nerf flame lash this page would have gotten no response.
Many people put in lot off effort in providing data and creating a picture of how this skill fits with the rest ZOS gives us. Based on that is becomes really clear it offers to much, CC, Damage, Costs and a major factor that is up to ZOS the Buggy break free.
This forum thread isn't the "base of users", it's a tiny fraction of forum users, which is in turn a tiny fraction of ESO users. Regardless as to what you think, there isn't even a consensus in this thread let alone among ZOS's user base.
I don't even use the skill anymore & I'm a [snip] magblade — if the weakest class in the game takes a pass on it, it can't be that OP.
I disargee, you can never ask everyone, so need to have a part of the larger community and within that part forums are used to get a impression of the users experiences. The knights for the skill did not reached to a better conclusion than necro and warden don't have access to good stun. While objectively regardsless of the class this skill compared to other skills really shows it is out of balance.
Huh? The "knights for the skill" (if that's what we're called now) simply said the ability isn't that a big of a deal as it is, and nerfing it would only cause no one to use it at all.
The funny thing is, judging by your post history you play a MagDK — so apparently you're cool with being able to do +25% damage to vampires, but you don't want them to be able to fight back. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, that sounds about par for the course for this forum.
[edit] And I don't mean this to be rude, but if as a Magicka Dragonknight you're having difficulty killing NBs because of cloak or vampires because of drain, then the problem isn't their class or skills — it's your current skill level.
Magdk is dead, sustain is so bad no reason to play it anymore. Indeed those crits procced whips of 13K not oncommon on vamps yes and nightblades with armor and fire breath easy kills. I am playing stamplar for the first time really like them fun to play. The skill really is not in a good place. And I don't want the skill to be nerfed to garbage. But there are multiple things not oke and that cannot continue. 2 ticks damage plus stun breaks stun plus high damage rule. Stun in general have high costs look at fossilze or that magwarden new aoe stun. Cheap undogdeable high damage stun according to ZOS devops should not be in the game. Hence it should not be in the game or other skill have to brought up to par.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 26, 2025 6:51PMXbox EU & NA - PVP Only0 -
Gatdangmayne✭✭✭✭Main problem with the skill is the buggy cc, and either the frequency of the damage ticks or the strength.
If you could actually interrupt or break free from it, it wouldn't be a huge deal.
If it didn't have ridiculous damage, it wouldn't be a huge deal.
But it is buggy as hell, and it has good damage.4 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
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My bad. I just searched for "Jabs" because Jabs what the word we kept using. The site that I used to get the numbers is eso-skillbook.com — the site that AlcastHQ links to. I don't see what's wrong with using the base tooltips to determine what the base damage of each skill is, but if you want to do it some other way you can't just vomit out numbers without explaining WTF they mean. Hell, at least explain what the dollar signs mean, lol.Umm it's pretty inetrresting way to make calculations for the ability the way You did especially that different websites sometimes show different tooltips. It's way better to check for scaling formula. But yeah with burning light overall damage of jabs will go definietly up. I dont know why You compare it to stamina based jabs and stamina based burning light value though. It's like You intentionally choosing higher values to support Your claims depsite the fact we are clearly talking about magicka jabs which would also proc magic damage burning light. Also If You want to bring argument of burning light You can also consider animation cancelling of drain which in 3 seconds will give 6 ticks so drain damage will also go up and jabs will still not be "more than twice as powerful as Drain".
In any case, going by eso-skillbook.com's numbers, Accelerating Drain still only does ~46% of the damage that Puncturing Sweep does, so my point still stands.
Drain: 472 * 5 = 2,360 over 3 seconds
Puncturing Sweep: 308 * 4 = 1,232 * 3 = 3,696 over 3 seconds
Burning Light = 477 * 3 procs = 1,431 over 3 seconds
Puncturing Sweep + Burning Light = 5,127 over 3 seconds, compared to 2,360 for Accelerating Drain — still more than twice as much damage as Accelerating Drain.
Well of course we'll take Burning light into consideration, why wouldn't we? It procs 25% of the time you do damage with an Aedric Spear ability with zero input from the user, correct? As far as comparing Force Pulse to Jabs, you're right: Jabs is way more powerful. What's your point though? That Jabs needs to get nerfed too? OK, sounds good to me.Also yes when we'll add burning light passive damage to the table then 3x jabs will be definietly stronger then 1 cast of the drain but keep in mind that we're comparing 3 casts of the strongest spammable chanelled ability in the game combined with procs of the strongest damage dealing passive vs 1 cast of utility/stun ability that shouldnt even be considered as damage dealing ability yet it hold its ground pretty well. For example if You'll compare 3x cast of the force pulse vs 3x cast of the jabs+burning light then force pulse will look similarly weak. Drain is simply doing way too much damage.
Good for you — I don't. Your preferences (and mine) are irrelevant to this conversation.I preffer to get undodgable stun right at the moment when my burst combo is landing. Snares can be avoided by snare immunity when they're applied , undodgable stun cannot be avoided unless You'll predict it being applied. Crippling mobility is still inferior to crippling all actions when needed especially when there is plenty of snares in the game but not that many undodgable , highly damaging stuns.
OK, take off the minor expedition then. I didn't even notice it when I used the skill anyway, to be honest I didn't even know I was getting it.It gives minor expedition not major. It can be perfectly combined with race against time to get both minor and major expedition improving mobility and helping with escape which adds additional defensive feature to already offensively strong ability.
Do you have evidence that the skill heals you for 15% of your initial missing health every tick? Because the way the skill reads to me is that every tick restores 15% of whatever your missing health is when the damage ticks. If that's the case, then the healing diminishes the longer you channel. I could be wrong as I haven't tested it, but you have provided no reason for me to think that I am. As for my "rigged" missing health calculation, I just posted the numbers because I thought it was self explanatory. Now that I see there are two ways to read the skill I see that I was incorrect. Here are my "rigged" numbers:First tick of heal is the value for all the other ticks so You'll get 75% of initially missing HP as a heal. And while I agree in real fights heal from it wont be extremly great lets be honest in PvP heal from jabs also isnt the greatest due to how battle spirit works for that ability. I am starting to think You do not know much about this ability yet You're discussing the topic. Also Your math with missing health calculations is rigged but I dont want to go into details since post will be long enough already.
Full health = 20k
Health when the skill is cast = 1,000 (19,000 missing)
Tick 1: 1,000 + (15% of 19,000 = 2,850 heal) = 3,850 remaining health (16,150 missing)
Tick 2: 3,850 + (15% of 16,150 =2,422 heal) = 6,272 remaining health (13,728 missing)
Tick 3: 6,272 + (15% of 13,728 = 2,059 heal) = 8,331 remaining health (11,669 missing)
Tick 4: 8,331 + (15% of 11,669 = 1,750 heal) = 10,081 remaining health (9,918 missing)
Tick 5: 10,081 + (15% of 9,918 = 1,488 heal) = 11,568 remaining health (8,432 missing)
Total healed: 10,569 (55.6 % of initial missing health)
The numbers are a bit off from my previous calculations so I must've made a mistake during one of them. Regardless, the numbers are similar enough that I don't think it really matters — if my reading of the skill is correct then you'll get ~56% before battle spirit, 28% in BGs. (And again, this is best case scenario.)
If any of this were true we'd see Magicka Templars using Accelerating Drain instead of the cookie-cutter Toppling Charge + Puncturing Sweep that literally every one of them uses — yet I don't think I've seen a single Magplar doing that. Have you?Jabs still requires more brain then drain does. Try to fight anyone with brain as templar and You'll know why. And definietly jabs are not allowing for such easy burst combos as drain. With drain You're literally getting 1 free global cooldown You normally would've spend for stunning someone so basically You're getting 1 free second during Your burst combo. Considering how broken that stun can be to break free sometimes it's even more free time. And decent burst combos damage windows usually lasts 2-3 seconds so Your burst combo with drain can go down to 1-2 seconds which basically makes Your combo 33-50% faster and also does more damage then other burst combos. That is insane improvement for certain setups. Accelerating drain is simply overloaded ability atm that goes against ZoS's rule of not having high damage abilities combined with stuns. It's literally better version of magicka dizzying swing before nerfs.Edited by Langeston on January 3, 2020 4:58AM0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah, I almost never see MagDKs in BGs anymore.🙄Magdk is dead, sustain is so bad no reason to play it anymore.
I see. So you were perfectly fine with 13k whips when you were playing as a DK, but now that you're playing a Stamplar & other classes have a useful skill that you can't use effectively, all of the sudden that needs to get nerfed. Gotcha. (If I'm wrong, please link to the forum posts you authored where you were complaining about how OP MagDKs are/were.)Indeed those crits procced whips of 13K not oncommon on vamps yes and nightblades with armor and fire breath easy kills. I am playing stamplar for the first time really like them fun to play. The skill really is not in a good place. And I don't want the skill to be nerfed to garbage. But there are multiple things not oke and that cannot continue. 2 ticks damage plus stun breaks stun plus high damage rule. Stun in general have high costs look at fossilze or that magwarden new aoe stun. Cheap undogdeable high damage stun according to ZOS devops should not be in the game. Hence it should not be in the game or other skill have to brought up to par.
People like you are the reason my class has gotten nerfed into the ground to the point that's it's basically unplayable BGs at a high MMR.Edited by Langeston on January 3, 2020 4:59AM2 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If any of this were true we'd see Magicka Templars using Accelerating Drain instead of the cookie-cutter Toppling Charge + Puncturing Sweep that literally every one of them uses — yet I don't think I've seen a single Magplar doing that. Have you?
No, saying accelerating drain is as powerful as sweeps is ridiculous.
What makes accelerating drain powerful is it’s a very cheap stun.Edited by Iskiab on January 2, 2020 10:07PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten2 -
Gatdangmayne✭✭✭✭Can we get people to say which platform they're on? I think ps4na is far different than pcna, because vamp drain is on like 90% of mag toons on ps4.
As far as drain v jabs, jabs typically hits maybe 3/5 per cast because only potatos stand still, for 1.5 each time, so with a burning light proc, ill be generous at 7k.
Drain is on my recaps for 2 ticks for 5-6k, while holding me in place and repeatedly stunning while immune, with a guaranteed hit, with longer range, for cheaper cost.Edited by Gatdangmayne on January 2, 2020 10:13PM1 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭If any of this were true we'd see Magicka Templars using Accelerating Drain instead of the cookie-cutter Toppling Charge + Puncturing Sweep that literally every one of them uses — yet I don't think I've seen a single Magplar doing that. Have you?
No, saying accelerating drain is as powerful as sweeps is ridiculous.
What makes accelerating drain powerful is it’s a very cheap stun.
Agreed. The cost should go up.Edited by Langeston on January 2, 2020 10:32PM0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If any of this were true we'd see Magicka Templars using Accelerating Drain instead of the cookie-cutter Toppling Charge + Puncturing Sweep that literally every one of them uses — yet I don't think I've seen a single Magplar doing that. Have you?
No, saying accelerating drain is as powerful as sweeps is ridiculous.
What makes accelerating drain powerful is it’s a very cheap stun.
Agreed. The cost should go up.
Yea. That’s all that’s needed. The cost is too cheap for a stun, around 3k per cast or so sounds about right.Gatdangmayne wrote: »Can we get people to say which platform they're on? I think ps4na is far different than pcna, because vamp drain is on like 90% of mag toons on ps4.
As far as drain v jabs, jabs typically hits maybe 3/5 per cast because only potatos stand still, for 1.5 each time, so with a burning light proc, ill be generous at 7k.
Drain is on my recaps for 2 ticks for 5-6k, while holding me in place and repeatedly stunning while immune, with a guaranteed hit, with longer range, for cheaper cost.
I’m PC-NA. My sweeps tooltip is 12k per cast in no-CP without any other procs or goodies.
I use vamp drain as well, just not on a templar because toppling is better. I use it on magblade and MagWarden, the damage is very low. Maybe people are building around it and a set that increases channeled damage? No idea.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭
Yeah, I almost never see MagDKs in BGs anymore.🙄Magdk is dead, sustain is so bad no reason to play it anymore.
I see. So you were perfectly fine with 13k whips when you were playing as a DK, but now that you're playing a Stamplar & other classes have a useful skill that you can't use effectively, all of the sudden that needs to get nerfed. Gotcha. (If I'm wrong, please link to the forum posts you authored where you were complaining about how OP MagDKs are/were.)Indeed those crits procced whips of 13K not oncommon on vamps yes and nightblades with armor and fire breath easy kills. I am playing stamplar for the first time really like them fun to play. The skill really is not in a good place. And I don't want the skill to be nerfed to garbage. But there are multiple things not oke and that cannot continue. 2 ticks damage plus stun breaks stun plus high damage rule. Stun in general have high costs look at fossilze or that magwarden new aoe stun. Cheap undogdeable high damage stun according to ZOS devops should not be in the game. Hence it should not be in the game or other skill have to brought up to par.
People like you are the reason my class has gotten nerfed into the ground to the point that's it's basically unplayable BGs at a high MMR.
In the wings discussion i supported changing it. End product is crab unfortunately. This is not about class cant care less what you play i have builds for every class. The skill itself is to good to be true.Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you wanna make the stun deal no damage and even reduce the range, you better make it unblockable, too.
In that case they'd have to change it from a channeled ability to a cast ability too. Every time someone uses this skill they're making themselves completely vulnerable for 3 seconds unless they cancel it.
It's not as OP as everyone in this thread is making it seem. If it were, you'd see a lot more people using it.
Just a good stun accessible to all magicka players. The counterpart to Turn Undead. Absolutely fine with me.
It's in no way counterpart to Turn Undead. It's way stronger against single oponent and even when outnumbered it's decently strong.
No? It's not?
(o_ô)
So equivalent of undodgable dizzying swing with 10 meters range and stun that starts dealing damage instantly is weaker while consuming also 2 times less resources then Turn Undead ? Interresting.
Against single opponent it is stronger. Way stronger. Turn undead may be better when escaping some Xv1 but when fighting people accelerating drain beats it. To be fair I was even using accelerating drain to esape because I was just turning around using it on someone so there was minus 1 person chasing me and I gained additional minor expedition on top of the major expedition I have from race against time.
You weren't reading carefully. The topic was to remove the damage but make the stun unblockable. So yeah, a single-target Turn Undead.
You weren't reading carefully> I am comparing current drain to Tirn Undead.
My bad. I just searched for "Jabs" because Jabs what the word we kept using. The site that I used to get the numbers is eso-skillbook.com — the site that AlcastHQ links to. I don't see what's wrong with using the base tooltips to determine what the base damage of each skill is, but if you want to do it some other way you can't just vomit out numbers without explaining WTF they mean. Hell, at least explain what the dollar signs mean, lol.Umm it's pretty inetrresting way to make calculations for the ability the way You did especially that different websites sometimes show different tooltips. It's way better to check for scaling formula. But yeah with burning light overall damage of jabs will go definietly up. I dont know why You compare it to stamina based jabs and stamina based burning light value though. It's like You intentionally choosing higher values to support Your claims depsite the fact we are clearly talking about magicka jabs which would also proc magic damage burning light. Also If You want to bring argument of burning light You can also consider animation cancelling of drain which in 3 seconds will give 6 ticks so drain damage will also go up and jabs will still not be "more than twice as powerful as Drain".
In any case, going by eso-skillbook.com's numbers, Accelerating Drain still only does ~46% of the damage that Puncturing Sweep does, so my point still stands.
Drain: 472 * 5 = 2,360 over 3 seconds
Puncturing Sweep: 308 * 4 = 1,232 * 3 = 3,696 over 3 seconds
Burning Light = 477 * 3 procs = 1,431 over 3 seconds
Puncturing Sweep + Burning Light = 5,127 over 3 seconds, compared to 2,360 for Accelerating Drain — still more than twice as much damage as Accelerating Drain.
Well of course we'll take Burning light into consideration, why wouldn't we? It procs 25% of the time you do damage with an Aedric Spear ability with zero input from the user, correct? As far as comparing Force Pulse to Jabs, you're right: Jabs is way more powerful. What's your point though? That Jabs needs to get nerfed too? OK, sounds good to me.Also yes when we'll add burning light passive damage to the table then 3x jabs will be definietly stronger then 1 cast of the drain but keep in mind that we're comparing 3 casts of the strongest spammable chanelled ability in the game combined with procs of the strongest damage dealing passive vs 1 cast of utility/stun ability that shouldnt even be considered as damage dealing ability yet it hold its ground pretty well. For example if You'll compare 3x cast of the force pulse vs 3x cast of the jabs+burning light then force pulse will look similarly weak. Drain is simply doing way too much damage.
Good for you — I don't. Your preferences (and mine) are irrelevant to this conversation.I preffer to get undodgable stun right at the moment when my burst combo is landing. Snares can be avoided by snare immunity when they're applied , undodgable stun cannot be avoided unless You'll predict it being applied. Crippling mobility is still inferior to crippling all actions when needed especially when there is plenty of snares in the game but not that many undodgable , highly damaging stuns.
OK, take off the minor expedition then. I didn't even notice it when I used the skill anyway, to be honest I didn't even know I was getting it.It gives minor expedition not major. It can be perfectly combined with race against time to get both minor and major expedition improving mobility and helping with escape which adds additional defensive feature to already offensively strong ability.
Do you have evidence that the skill heals you for 15% of your initial missing health every tick? Because the way the skill reads to me is that every tick restores 15% of whatever your missing health is when the damage ticks. If that's the case, then the healing diminishes the longer you channel. I could be wrong as I haven't tested it, but you have provided no reason for me to think that I am. As for my "rigged" missing health calculation, I just posted the numbers because I thought it was self explanatory. Now that I see there are two ways to read the skill I see that I was incorrect. Here are my "rigged" numbers:First tick of heal is the value for all the other ticks so You'll get 75% of initially missing HP as a heal. And while I agree in real fights heal from it wont be extremly great lets be honest in PvP heal from jabs also isnt the greatest due to how battle spirit works for that ability. I am starting to think You do not know much about this ability yet You're discussing the topic. Also Your math with missing health calculations is rigged but I dont want to go into details since post will be long enough already.
Full health = 20k
Health when the skill is cast = 1,000 (19,000 missing)
Tick 1: 1,000 + (15% of 19,000 = 2,850 heal) = 3,850 remaining health (16,150 missing)
Tick 2: 3,850 + (15% of 16,150 =2,422 heal) = 6,272 remaining health (13,728 missing)
Tick 3: 6,272 + (15% of 13,728 = 2,059 heal) = 8,331 remaining health (11,669 missing)
Tick 4: 8,331 + (15% of 11,669 = 1,750 heal) = 10,081 remaining health (9,918 missing)
Tick 5: 10,081 + (15% of 9,918 = 1,488 heal) = 11,568 remaining health (8,432 missing)
Total healed: 10,569 (55.6 % of initial missing health)
The numbers are a bit off from my previous calculations so I must've made a mistake during one of them. Regardless, the numbers are similar enough that I don't think it really matters — if my reading of the skill is correct then you'll get ~56% before battle spirit, 28% in BGs. (And again, this is best case scenario.)
If any of this were true we'd see Magicka Templars using Accelerating Drain instead of the cookie-cutter Toppling Charge + Puncturing Sweep that literally every one of them uses — yet I don't think I've seen a single Magplar doing that. Have you?Jabs still requires more brain then drain does. Try to fight anyone with brain as templar and You'll know why. And definietly jabs are not allowing for such easy burst combos as drain. With drain You're literally getting 1 free global cooldown You normally would've spend for stunning someone so basically You're getting 1 free second during Your burst combo. Considering how broken that stun can be to break free sometimes it's even more free time. And decent burst combos damage windows usually lasts 2-3 seconds so Your burst combo with drain can go down to 1-2 seconds which basically makes Your combo 33-50% faster and also does more damage then other burst combos. That is insane improvement for certain setups. Accelerating drain is simply overloaded ability atm that goes against ZoS's rule of not having high damage abilities combined with stuns. It's literally better version of magicka dizzying swing before nerfs.
What I am using as my baseline for calculations is that website https://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkillCoef.php . It contains all the base scaling formulas for every ability in the game. I dont like to use websites that have just some raw number put in it because on different websites You'll find different numbers. Dollar sign means nothing special. You could put any mark there it's just representations of what You're calculating for. And ok since Youw ant to play this way and start to compare accelerating drain to 3 casts of spammable ability despite the fact this ability is mainly used in burst combo lets do it Your way. But You've missed 1 important thing. If You want to use accelerating drain as spammable then everyone with some bit of skill wont simply cast it for 3 seconds. It's way better to cast it for ~0,8-0,9 sec then block cancel light attack weave and another cancel with block cast. That way in 3 seconds You'll be able to get 6 ticks of drain and 3 light attack compared to 12 ticks of jabs and 3 burning light procs (You wont be able to light attack weave inbetween jabs to get 12 ticks in 3 seconds). That way drain is already almost as powerfull as jabs while still being cheaper , easier to target and with better range. Jabs are just a part of magplar toolkit. Taking them out of context and comparing 1 on 1 with something else makes more sense. Also true strenght of drain is not coming from it's beinf used as spammable ability. I think You're missing the point of why this ability is strong.
It's not about prefferences. Undodgable stun connected to damaging ability is objectivly superior to snare when it comes to burst combos. And burst combos are the way of killing people in PvP. You wont burst down snared person when he/she can heal/block/dodge etc. You will burst down stunned person when he/she cant do anything while stunned and being bursted down. And nobody says You cannot have both snare and stun because there is plenty of ways to apply a snare for example on templar You dont have to spam jabs all You need is just enemy standing in Your ritual or being affected by Your reflective light. When on the other hand there is no stun like drain in the game that would have so much damage upfront while being undodgable.
Fact You dont know You're getting minor expedition is irrelevant. What You know or dont doesnt change what exists or not. Reality is You're getting speed buff and it's helpfull.
Yes I have a proff that drain heals the way I am saying it does. I used it and checked for values of the heal. I reccomend You to do the same before jumping to conclussions. It's no argument at all what do You think skill tooltip says or how it reads for You. Feelings are not reliable source of knowledge. What matters is what it does in reality. It would save You lot of time and pointless calculations if You would check it 1st.
Magplars are not using drain because they usually dont have free skill slot for it. They usually dont have enough free skill slots to slot eveything they want and the way their burst combo works is not fuly supporting drain (puryfying light is not giving You upfront damage). And You know why they're using their gap closer as a stun ? Because it connects multiple features in 1 ability and also deals decent amount of damage. Pretty similar to what drain is doing dont You think ? And magplar is just 1 class out of 6. Fact that drain is not a perfect tool for magplar is not an argument at all in discussion wheter this ability is strong or not.
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