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is group finder spoonfeeding noobs?
Salvas_Aren
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this is not intended to be for the salt, its just a demonstration of facts:
recently, my friends and me, mostly endlevel or close to it, are not able to pug for dedicated dungeons in groups of 2, no matter which roles. pugging as a group of 3 works better, but not perfectly.
we found that pugging as one is even easier because it would get us a group faster, even pugging as single players all together at the same time for the same dungeon works better than pugging as a group of not 4.
well, this alone does not prove anything, but we also found that we occasionally got sucked into groups with low level players without even being in the queue in the first place, or getting our group split and getting sucked into different groups with low level players, or having just one of us to experience that while the others stay in the overland. or we get sucked into the wrong dungeon where low level players obviously need healers and tanks.
so my question: does the dungeon finder tool prioritize mixed groups with high and low level players over the composition of the fastest group possible? or is it a general problem of bad code?
recently, my friends and me, mostly endlevel or close to it, are not able to pug for dedicated dungeons in groups of 2, no matter which roles. pugging as a group of 3 works better, but not perfectly.
we found that pugging as one is even easier because it would get us a group faster, even pugging as single players all together at the same time for the same dungeon works better than pugging as a group of not 4.
well, this alone does not prove anything, but we also found that we occasionally got sucked into groups with low level players without even being in the queue in the first place, or getting our group split and getting sucked into different groups with low level players, or having just one of us to experience that while the others stay in the overland. or we get sucked into the wrong dungeon where low level players obviously need healers and tanks.
so my question: does the dungeon finder tool prioritize mixed groups with high and low level players over the composition of the fastest group possible? or is it a general problem of bad code?
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Donny_Vito✭✭✭✭✭
✭Salvas_Aren wrote: »this is not intended to be for the salt, its just a demonstration of facts:
recently, my friends and me, mostly endlevel or close to it, are not able to pug for dedicated dungeons in groups of 2, no matter which roles. pugging as a group of 3 works better, but not perfectly.
we found that pugging as one is even easier because it would get us a group faster, even pugging as single players all together at the same time for the same dungeon works better than pugging as a group of not 4.
well, this alone does not prove anything, but we also found that we occasionally got sucked into groups with low level players without even being in the queue in the first place, or getting our group split and getting sucked into different groups with low level players, or having just one of us to experience that while the others stay in the overland. or we get sucked into the wrong dungeon where low level players obviously need healers and tanks.
so my question: does the dungeon finder tool prioritize mixed groups with high and low level players over the composition of the fastest group possible? or is it a general problem of bad code?
Without access to the code or a dev response, I fear we will never know the answer. But from a guessing standpoint based on experience, it's a First-Come First-Serve implementation.2 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS struggles to make groupfinder work, period. You know just as "get 2 DDs, 1 healer and 1 tank from the queue and put them in an instance". Do you really expect them to be able to successfuly code any kind of additional condition on top of it?1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Most likely this is just Groupfinder being screwed up. Before ZOS' rework, it was noticeably faster to queue as a group of two rather than solo. And I'd never heard of premade groups being split up.
That being said, as long as those players are of an appropriate level or CP to be in that dungeon, they can queue for it, whether they are prepared or not. That's always been the case and there's no real way around it, save for instituting mandatory role tests before you set foot in particular dungeons or queuing as a full premade. Groupfinder just guarantees you a group. It promises nothing about quality.5 -
Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Most likely this is just Groupfinder being screwed up. Before ZOS' rework, it was noticeably faster to queue as a group of two rather than solo. And I'd never heard of premade groups being split up.
That being said, as long as those players are of an appropriate level or CP to be in that dungeon, they can queue for it, whether they are prepared or not. That's always been the case and there's no real way around it, save for instituting mandatory role tests before you set foot in particular dungeons or queuing as a full premade. Groupfinder just guarantees you a group. It promises nothing about quality.
While this is true, we got never torn apart as a group to team up with pure CP 160+ groups. Just saying.0 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don’t think it has anything to do with the player’s level or anything like that. Based on what you’re saying and what I’ve experienced, it seems that groupfinder no longer handles groups of 2-3 players well. Even in a non-DLC dungeon queuing for a replacement DPS took longer than it should have last night.
With the old groupfinder, partial groups seemed to be prioritized so two DPS queuing together could get into a dungeon much faster than two DPS queuing separately. Now it is the opposite and even queuing as a healer with a tank for a pledge dungeon I’ve had to wait ridiculously long and wonder whether the groupfinder was working at all.
From my limited perspective (only playing since July and not familiar with the problems of the previous groupfinder), I much preferred the previous iteration: Queuing solo as a tank or healer got you into a dungeon quick but it would be just as quick grouping with others first. As a DPS, sure it could be a longer wait queuing solo, but you could make it faster queuing with anyone else looking to do the same dungeon(s).0 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭That's an interesting point now that you mention it, though what I've found is kind of tangentially related to your observations.
If I queue for a random by myself on a sub-50 character, I almost always get put with 3 other solo pug sub-50s.
If I queue for a random on my CP 810 characters, I almost always get put with three other solo pugs with high CP. The queue times for these characters vs. the sub-50s is considerably longer.
When I queue in a group of two or three, all bets are off- we seem to get players of any level in that case.1 -
Anhedonie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You're reding too much into it. *** DOESN'T *** WORK, thanks to spaghetti code.Profanity filter is a crime against the freedom of speech. Also gags.1 -
mobicera✭✭✭✭✭
✭The biggest problem I've seen with group finder is not finding people for partial groups.
Meaning if I que with 3 people 1 tank 1 healer and 1 dps, the que barely ever pops.
I've waited almost 10 minutes the 1 day for 1 dps for a non dlc pledge... I mean that should have been near instant.
Its happens so frequently since I've been back (a few weeks) that I'm forced to spam chats to find 1 single person so we can just que...
Seems worse than when I left, lol1 -
Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just another detail, in one of those totally broken runs i farmed the iron blood set in fanglair.
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Salvas_Aren wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Most likely this is just Groupfinder being screwed up. Before ZOS' rework, it was noticeably faster to queue as a group of two rather than solo. And I'd never heard of premade groups being split up.
That being said, as long as those players are of an appropriate level or CP to be in that dungeon, they can queue for it, whether they are prepared or not. That's always been the case and there's no real way around it, save for instituting mandatory role tests before you set foot in particular dungeons or queuing as a full premade. Groupfinder just guarantees you a group. It promises nothing about quality.
While this is true, we got never torn apart as a group to team up with pure CP 160+ groups. Just saying.
Um, prior to the rework (which, uh, still doesn't work) no one got torn apart if they queued as a premade or partial premade.
Groupfinder is just broken right now. Its got nothing to do with "noobs" or low level players. Its got everything to do with ZOS leaving a broken groupfinder in place until they can fix it for realz this time, supposedly by mid-January for a redo on the Undaunted event.
So congrats, you discovered a new bug. This isn't working as intended.0 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The group finder is broken in so many ways right now. What you describe is entirely possible. I've noticed that often you will sit in the queue for 5 minutes+ but then as soon as you exit and reenter it, you pop immediately. This should just never happen if the queue is working properly. It's like the first queue got "stuck" infinitely and requires you to reboot it to get it going. I'm at the point now where I queue, wait 10 seconds, then restart the queue just to make sure.2 -
Na0cho✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »The group finder is broken in so many ways right now. What you describe is entirely possible. I've noticed that often you will sit in the queue for 5 minutes+ but then as soon as you exit and reenter it, you pop immediately. This should just never happen if the queue is working properly. It's like the first queue got "stuck" infinitely and requires you to reboot it to get it going. I'm at the point now where I queue, wait 10 seconds, then restart the queue just to make sure.
Genuinely curious here, but that’s the way group finder has always been for me since I started playing (which was just after one Tamriel). Especially for dps. In fact I was always warned that if a que takes longer than five min to repop it. Are you saying you have never experienced this before until recently?
Am I just real unlucky? I have noticed this primarily happens with dps only unless I’m on at a really janky part of the day with less people on.
Honestly it’s been like that for me for as long as I can remember
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »The group finder is broken in so many ways right now. What you describe is entirely possible. I've noticed that often you will sit in the queue for 5 minutes+ but then as soon as you exit and reenter it, you pop immediately. This should just never happen if the queue is working properly. It's like the first queue got "stuck" infinitely and requires you to reboot it to get it going. I'm at the point now where I queue, wait 10 seconds, then restart the queue just to make sure.
Genuinely curious here, but that’s the way group finder has always been for me since I started playing (which was just after one Tamriel). Especially for dps. In fact I was always warned that if a que takes longer than five min to repop it. Are you saying you have never experienced this before until recently?
Am I just real unlucky? I have noticed this primarily happens with dps only unless I’m on at a really janky part of the day with less people on.
Honestly it’s been like that for me for as long as I can remember
You are right - being in a phantom queue, quitting, and then getting a queue pop immediately has been a known bug for a long time. I rarely get it on my tanks, but I've definitely had it on my healer.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Players of all skill levels use the GF to group just like any other MMORPG. However the more skilled a player is the more likely they are in a decent PvE or PvP guild and rarely queue solo.
Myself and the group I run with sometimes queue 3 man as we know we can carry someone through most dungeons. Sometimes we find a good player. Other times we have found someone who is does often and not worth the time to rez.
In reality it is best for them and everyone to run with regular people/a guild. We tend to learn more about the game that way and regular groups tend to have more patience with each other.
Of course everyone can choose to queue solo and enjoy that random group. After all they need something to complain to the forum about.0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »That's an interesting point now that you mention it, though what I've found is kind of tangentially related to your observations.
If I queue for a random by myself on a sub-50 character, I almost always get put with 3 other solo pug sub-50s.
If I queue for a random on my CP 810 characters, I almost always get put with three other solo pugs with high CP. The queue times for these characters vs. the sub-50s is considerably longer.
When I queue in a group of two or three, all bets are off- we seem to get players of any level in that case.
You have to remember players can also queue for specific dungeons. When you queue on a low level character you have a limited number of dungeons you can be placed in. Better chance of getting other low level characters because they are limited to the same dungeons. When you queue on your 810 character I'm guessing you are filling groups that are looking to run specific dungeons the lower level players can't run.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1
