nosecookie wrote: »No.
nosecookie wrote: »You want to change Elder Dragon Passive from Something nice to have but ultimately weak like health recovery to something like 1 ult per second which would make demigods out of dks. Therefore you have no idea what you're speaking of and automatically invalidates all of your other points.
nosecookie wrote: »You want to change Elder Dragon Passive from Something nice to have but ultimately weak like health recovery to something like 1 ult per second which would make demigods out of dks. Therefore you have no idea what you're speaking of and automatically invalidates all of your other points.
nosecookie wrote: »You want to change Elder Dragon Passive from Something nice to have but ultimately weak like health recovery to something like 1 ult per second which would make demigods out of dks. Therefore you have no idea what you're speaking of and automatically invalidates all of your other points.
Templars have a passive like Dk's mountains blessing and an additional passive that gives them 5% ultimate costreduction, Sorcerers have 15% costreduction and Wardens even have access to major heroism and a passive that gives them the same ultgen as mountains blessing. I don't need to name more here. Dk's don't have more ultimate regen than other classes and they don't have any costreduction on ultimates. The sustain a Dk would get from 1 more ultimate per second would equal 92 not buffable recovery. I don't see how thats broken. Please give me a reason to value your comment.
nosecookie wrote: »You want to change Elder Dragon Passive from Something nice to have but ultimately weak like health recovery to something like 1 ult per second which would make demigods out of dks. Therefore you have no idea what you're speaking of and automatically invalidates all of your other points.
Templars have a passive like Dk's mountains blessing and an additional passive that gives them 5% ultimate costreduction, Sorcerers have 15% costreduction and Wardens even have access to major heroism and a passive that gives them the same ultgen as mountains blessing. I don't need to name more here. Dk's don't have more ultimate regen than other classes and they don't have any costreduction on ultimates. The sustain a Dk would get from 1 more ultimate per second would equal 92 not buffable recovery. I don't see how thats broken. Please give me a reason to value your comment.
The reason is that other classes dont benefit as much as DKs from ult regen. When you buff DK ult regen you are also buffing their sustain which can also lead to a buff to dmg/survivability due to not needing to invest as much into sustain. That change would actually make it possibly the best passive in the game with absolutely no input from the user. Its prety much twice as good as minor heroism and it can stack on top of it. You are talking about not being able to stand ur ground but that passive alone would actually make the class possibly better than they have ever been before when it comes to standing ur ground and that is on top of all the other defensive buffs u suggested.
You are also talking about identity and yet you are suggesting to give them minor expedition which is a unique buff to stamsorcs as they are the most mobile class in the game which is their identity. That suggestion makes zero sense in terms of identity. Neither for DKs or for stamsorcs.
You are also oversimplifying sustain so you can have some numbers to compare but what you dont understand is that ur comparison actually has no context in terms of actual gameplay. Take sorcs for example, you take into account the cost of hardcasted frags but no one is using that. You only really use the proc which is cheap. Then you take into account the base cost of streak but the ability has a stacking cost increase. You are simplifying the sustain of dark conversion but thats not the strength of the ability or how its used and ur numbers have no context. Its strength comes from being able to get a burst into sustain when u need it. Which is the exact same thing you did with battle roar. Then you have templars. Backlash and rune are cheap bringing their average ability cost down but those abilities are not actually frequently used while their spammable is more expensive than other other spammables and one of their most frequently used abilities (ritual) is expensive af. Im not saying that u are right or wrong in terms of which class has the best sustain but what you did most definitely doesnt show which class has the best sustain cause ur numbers have no context.
Yes changes are needed, definitely in terms of giving the class its identity back and some of ur suggestions are good or at least they are headed into the right direction but for the most past you are essentially doing what ZOS is doing. Oversimplifying everything just so u can have some numbers to compare but you are losing context and you end up making sweeping changes that are actually off ur intended target.
nosecookie wrote: »You want to change Elder Dragon Passive from Something nice to have but ultimately weak like health recovery to something like 1 ult per second which would make demigods out of dks. Therefore you have no idea what you're speaking of and automatically invalidates all of your other points.
Templars have a passive like Dk's mountains blessing and an additional passive that gives them 5% ultimate costreduction, Sorcerers have 15% costreduction and Wardens even have access to major heroism and a passive that gives them the same ultgen as mountains blessing. I don't need to name more here. Dk's don't have more ultimate regen than other classes and they don't have any costreduction on ultimates. The sustain a Dk would get from 1 more ultimate per second would equal 92 not buffable recovery. I don't see how thats broken. Please give me a reason to value your comment.
The reason is that other classes dont benefit as much as DKs from ult regen. When you buff DK ult regen you are also buffing their sustain which can also lead to a buff to dmg/survivability due to not needing to invest as much into sustain. That change would actually make it one of the best passives in the game with absolutely no input from the user. Its prety much twice as good as minor heroism and it can stack on top of it. You are talking about not being able to stand ur ground but that passive alone does exactly that and that is on top of all the other defensive buffs u suggested.
You are also talking about identity and yet you are suggesting to give them minor expedition which is a unique buff to stamsorcs as they are the most mobile class in the game which is their identity. That suggestion makes zero sense in terms of identity. Neither for DKs or for stamsorcs.
You are also oversimplifying sustain so you can have some numbers to compare but what you dont understand is that ur comparison actually has no context in terms of actual gameplay. Take sorcs for example, you take into account the cost of hardcasted frags but no one is using that. You only really use the proc which is cheap. Then you take into account the base cost of streak but the ability has a stacking cost increase. You are simplifying the sustain of dark conversion but thats not the strength of the ability or how its used and ur numbers have no context. Its strength comes from being able to get a burst into sustain when u need it. Which is the exact same thing you did with battle roar. Then you have templars. Backlash and rune are cheap bringing their average ability cost down but those abilities are not actually frequently used while their spammable is more expensive than other other spammables and one of their most frequently used abilities (ritual) is expensive af. Im not saying that u are right or wrong in terms of which class has the best sustain but what you did most definitely doesnt show which class has the best sustain cause ur numbers have no context.
Yes changes are needed, definitely in terms of giving the class its identity back and some of ur suggestions are good or at least they are headed into the right direction but for the most past you are essentially doing what ZOS is doing. Oversimplifying everything just so u can have some numbers to compare but you are losing context and you end up making sweeping changes that are actually off ur intended target.
nosecookie wrote: »You want to change Elder Dragon Passive from Something nice to have but ultimately weak like health recovery to something like 1 ult per second which would make demigods out of dks. Therefore you have no idea what you're speaking of and automatically invalidates all of your other points.
Templars have a passive like Dk's mountains blessing and an additional passive that gives them 5% ultimate costreduction, Sorcerers have 15% costreduction and Wardens even have access to major heroism and a passive that gives them the same ultgen as mountains blessing. I don't need to name more here. Dk's don't have more ultimate regen than other classes and they don't have any costreduction on ultimates. The sustain a Dk would get from 1 more ultimate per second would equal 92 not buffable recovery. I don't see how thats broken. Please give me a reason to value your comment.
The reason is that other classes dont benefit as much as DKs from ult regen. When you buff DK ult regen you are also buffing their sustain which can also lead to a buff to dmg/survivability due to not needing to invest as much into sustain. That change would actually make it possibly the best passive in the game with absolutely no input from the user. Its prety much twice as good as minor heroism and it can stack on top of it. You are talking about not being able to stand ur ground but that passive alone would actually make the class possibly better than they have ever been before when it comes to standing ur ground and that is on top of all the other defensive buffs u suggested.
You are also talking about identity and yet you are suggesting to give them minor expedition which is a unique buff to stamsorcs as they are the most mobile class in the game which is their identity. That suggestion makes zero sense in terms of identity. Neither for DKs or for stamsorcs.
You are also oversimplifying sustain so you can have some numbers to compare but what you dont understand is that ur comparison actually has no context in terms of actual gameplay. Take sorcs for example, you take into account the cost of hardcasted frags but no one is using that. You only really use the proc which is cheap. Then you take into account the base cost of streak but the ability has a stacking cost increase. You are simplifying the sustain of dark conversion but thats not the strength of the ability or how its used and ur numbers have no context. Its strength comes from being able to get a burst into sustain when u need it. Which is the exact same thing you did with battle roar. Then you have templars. Backlash and rune are cheap bringing their average ability cost down but those abilities are not actually frequently used while their spammable is more expensive than other other spammables and one of their most frequently used abilities (ritual) is expensive af. Im not saying that u are right or wrong in terms of which class has the best sustain but what you did most definitely doesnt show which class has the best sustain cause ur numbers have no context.
Yes changes are needed, definitely in terms of giving the class its identity back and some of ur suggestions are good or at least they are headed into the right direction but for the most past you are essentially doing what ZOS is doing. Oversimplifying everything just so u can have some numbers to compare but you are losing context and you end up making sweeping changes that are actually off ur intended target.
I agree with minor expedition being part of stamsorcs identity but dk need it because they cannot stand their ground. One ult per second would not make them overpowered. In the past there was an dynamic ultimate system which gave you more ultimate the more damage you dealt and with that you could spam ults because there was no cooldown on anything. That was damn broken but one ult a second equals 92 not buffable regen at best as I already mentioned... Thats nothing compared to other classes Sustain passives. Yes I am oversimplifying sustain here as well as the ability cost because if i put all the math for the absolute sustain in here it would be some pages long and no one would want to spend an hour reading it. The outcome is still the same: MagDk's sustain is inferior to other classes. The Skills you use on MagDk mostly have a cost about 3.6k with all passives as breton exept your spammable and Skills that aren't class skills but are used as well like degeneration. I don't know how everyone thinks that 92 not buffable regen through battle roar is op but Sorcs having free conversions through unchained is fine... I play multiple classes and magdk feels the worst in terms of sustain. The 92 Regen wouldn't make MagDk stronger than ever... When we had costreduction in Cp we didn't need any Regen and could permablock easily... that would not be possible with 1 more ult per second not in the slightest.
I am oversimplifying things here but the math and thinking behind it is much more than I posted here. This post with all the things behind it took actually about 4 hours and many small changes over time.
nosecookie wrote: »You want to change Elder Dragon Passive from Something nice to have but ultimately weak like health recovery to something like 1 ult per second which would make demigods out of dks. Therefore you have no idea what you're speaking of and automatically invalidates all of your other points.
Templars have a passive like Dk's mountains blessing and an additional passive that gives them 5% ultimate costreduction, Sorcerers have 15% costreduction and Wardens even have access to major heroism and a passive that gives them the same ultgen as mountains blessing. I don't need to name more here. Dk's don't have more ultimate regen than other classes and they don't have any costreduction on ultimates. The sustain a Dk would get from 1 more ultimate per second would equal 92 not buffable recovery. I don't see how thats broken. Please give me a reason to value your comment.
The reason is that other classes dont benefit as much as DKs from ult regen. When you buff DK ult regen you are also buffing their sustain which can also lead to a buff to dmg/survivability due to not needing to invest as much into sustain. That change would actually make it possibly the best passive in the game with absolutely no input from the user. Its prety much twice as good as minor heroism and it can stack on top of it. You are talking about not being able to stand ur ground but that passive alone would actually make the class possibly better than they have ever been before when it comes to standing ur ground and that is on top of all the other defensive buffs u suggested.
You are also talking about identity and yet you are suggesting to give them minor expedition which is a unique buff to stamsorcs as they are the most mobile class in the game which is their identity. That suggestion makes zero sense in terms of identity. Neither for DKs or for stamsorcs.
You are also oversimplifying sustain so you can have some numbers to compare but what you dont understand is that ur comparison actually has no context in terms of actual gameplay. Take sorcs for example, you take into account the cost of hardcasted frags but no one is using that. You only really use the proc which is cheap. Then you take into account the base cost of streak but the ability has a stacking cost increase. You are simplifying the sustain of dark conversion but thats not the strength of the ability or how its used and ur numbers have no context. Its strength comes from being able to get a burst into sustain when u need it. Which is the exact same thing you did with battle roar. Then you have templars. Backlash and rune are cheap bringing their average ability cost down but those abilities are not actually frequently used while their spammable is more expensive than other other spammables and one of their most frequently used abilities (ritual) is expensive af. Im not saying that u are right or wrong in terms of which class has the best sustain but what you did most definitely doesnt show which class has the best sustain cause ur numbers have no context.
Yes changes are needed, definitely in terms of giving the class its identity back and some of ur suggestions are good or at least they are headed into the right direction but for the most past you are essentially doing what ZOS is doing. Oversimplifying everything just so u can have some numbers to compare but you are losing context and you end up making sweeping changes that are actually off ur intended target.
I agree with minor expedition being part of stamsorcs identity but dk need it because they cannot stand their ground. One ult per second would not make them overpowered. In the past there was an dynamic ultimate system which gave you more ultimate the more damage you dealt and with that you could spam ults because there was no cooldown on anything. That was damn broken but one ult a second equals 92 not buffable regen at best as I already mentioned... Thats nothing compared to other classes Sustain passives. Yes I am oversimplifying sustain here as well as the ability cost because if i put all the math for the absolute sustain in here it would be some pages long and no one would want to spend an hour reading it. The outcome is still the same: MagDk's sustain is inferior to other classes. The Skills you use on MagDk mostly have a cost about 3.6k with all passives as breton exept your spammable and Skills that aren't class skills but are used as well like degeneration. I don't know how everyone thinks that 92 not buffable regen through battle roar is op but Sorcs having free conversions through unchained is fine... I play multiple classes and magdk feels the worst in terms of sustain. The 92 Regen wouldn't make MagDk stronger than ever... When we had costreduction in Cp we didn't need any Regen and could permablock easily... that would not be possible with 1 more ult per second not in the slightest.
I am oversimplifying things here but the math and thinking behind it is much more than I posted here. This post with all the things behind it took actually about 4 hours and many small changes over time.
You are missing the point. The issue isnt that you didnt do enough math. The issue that ur way of thinking when doing ur math is flat out wrong and you are just presenting numbers with no context.
DKs DO NOT interact with ult regen in the same way as other classes so stop comparing them to other classes. 1-2 ult per second IS NOT just 90 regen so stop downplaying the buff. DKs and ult regen is like pandoras box. Especially with crap like snb ult.
So as far as sustain is concerned let me get this straight, you are saying that DKs have the worst sustain when u put all the math down but you are too bored to do it so u just presented some numbers with no context to make ur point? Yeah thats not how it works mate. Again, im not saying that you are right or wrong in terms of which class has the worst sustain but weighing up all abilities in the same way to get an average cost when the abilities are not used in the same way, is most definitely wrong and doesnt prove anything at all. Templars use ritual twice as much as rune if not even more frequently. You cant take the average cost of the two abilities and present it as a number that indicates templar sustain. Thats misinformation and lack of understanding of the game.
And as far as expedition is concerned, you are basically saying that you dont want to mess up with identity but that is only for DKs. When it comes to stam sorcs screw them. Ok got it. And you are also saying that DK need it because they cant stand their ground but you are obviously going to just ignore that you suggested numerous buffs that help the class do exactly that. Ok that makes sense.
Yeah at this point it doesnt really sound that this is a list of what DKs actually need or that this is a topic of discussion. It mostly seems like a list of what you want without actually caring about balance and that this isnt really actually up for discussion.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Overbuffing magDK and shoving stamDK into even more of a troll tank role... No thank you.
I wouldn't say DK class is doing very good at the moment however Its due to the fact that everyone has ridicilous self healing atm, which was previously unique to the DK class, and now as result Dks feel subpar.
What does Dk need then:
1. A bit more magicka sustain.Maybe cost reductions to certain abilities.
2. Dots across the board(including non-dk ones) needs buff I would say at least by %10-15
3. Healing across the board needs nerf for ALL specs by a good %30-35. Having a vigor or RR tooltip of 25k, without even building for it, is absurd. I won't even mention how overtuned stuff like matriarch heal is, anyone with eyes and a working brain can notice it.
4. Wings needs to pass through another rework as its too niche, weak in its current state. I don't want it overpowered but considering warden and sorcs have stronger skill absorbtion abilities, its very unfair to Dk which is an immobile class.
5. more stamina flavor. Not neccessarily buffs but more options to break stamDK out of the designated troll tank spot.
Joy_Division wrote: »I get it, Zos took what made DKs fun to play and threw it in the trash bin in favor of some boring percentage modifiers. The class probably feels hollow to play compared to what it once was.
But some of the suggestions you are giving are way too strong and basically ignore that every class is suffering from the things DKs are. Changing a pretty much usless health regen passive to 1 ultimate a second is crazy strong for any class, especially a DK. Every class basically has the same sustain issues; ever since Morrowind zos has repeatedly said they dont want us to have limitless resources, so we're all basically in the same boat there.
As for class identity, well that's a whole different bowl of wax. Im not sure exactly when Zos decided that Dks were the "DOT" class, but I can say when I enjoyed playing a DK, it wasn't becuase I liked putting slow damage over time effects on the bad guys. I played it becuase it could leap tall walls, reflected craven player's snipe spam back in their face, and was a intimidating in your face combatant that did more than "moar dots".
nosecookie wrote: »No.
Can you at least give a reason?
nosecookie wrote: »You want to change Elder Dragon Passive from Something nice to have but ultimately weak like health recovery to something like 1 ult per second which would make demigods out of dks. Therefore you have no idea what you're speaking of and automatically invalidates all of your other points.
Templars have a passive like Dk's mountains blessing and an additional passive that gives them 5% ultimate costreduction, Sorcerers have 15% costreduction and Wardens even have access to major heroism and a passive that gives them the same ultgen as mountains blessing. I don't need to name more here. Dk's don't have more ultimate regen than other classes and they don't have any costreduction on ultimates. The sustain a Dk would get from 1 more ultimate per second would equal 92 not buffable recovery. I don't see how thats broken. Please give me a reason to value your comment.
The reason is that other classes dont benefit as much as DKs from ult regen. When you buff DK ult regen you are also buffing their sustain which can also lead to a buff to dmg/survivability due to not needing to invest as much into sustain. That change would actually make it possibly the best passive in the game with absolutely no input from the user. Its prety much twice as good as minor heroism and it can stack on top of it. You are talking about not being able to stand ur ground but that passive alone would actually make the class possibly better than they have ever been before when it comes to standing ur ground and that is on top of all the other defensive buffs u suggested.
You are also talking about identity and yet you are suggesting to give them minor expedition which is a unique buff to stamsorcs as they are the most mobile class in the game which is their identity. That suggestion makes zero sense in terms of identity. Neither for DKs or for stamsorcs.
You are also oversimplifying sustain so you can have some numbers to compare but what you dont understand is that ur comparison actually has no context in terms of actual gameplay. Take sorcs for example, you take into account the cost of hardcasted frags but no one is using that. You only really use the proc which is cheap. Then you take into account the base cost of streak but the ability has a stacking cost increase. You are simplifying the sustain of dark conversion but thats not the strength of the ability or how its used and ur numbers have no context. Its strength comes from being able to get a burst into sustain when u need it. Which is the exact same thing you did with battle roar. Then you have templars. Backlash and rune are cheap bringing their average ability cost down but those abilities are not actually frequently used while their spammable is more expensive than other other spammables and one of their most frequently used abilities (ritual) is expensive af. Im not saying that u are right or wrong in terms of which class has the best sustain but what you did most definitely doesnt show which class has the best sustain cause ur numbers have no context.
Yes changes are needed, definitely in terms of giving the class its identity back and some of ur suggestions are good or at least they are headed into the right direction but for the most past you are essentially doing what ZOS is doing. Oversimplifying everything just so u can have some numbers to compare but you are losing context and you end up making sweeping changes that are actually off ur intended target.
I agree with minor expedition being part of stamsorcs identity but dk need it because they cannot stand their ground. One ult per second would not make them overpowered. In the past there was an dynamic ultimate system which gave you more ultimate the more damage you dealt and with that you could spam ults because there was no cooldown on anything. That was damn broken but one ult a second equals 92 not buffable regen at best as I already mentioned... Thats nothing compared to other classes Sustain passives. Yes I am oversimplifying sustain here as well as the ability cost because if i put all the math for the absolute sustain in here it would be some pages long and no one would want to spend an hour reading it. The outcome is still the same: MagDk's sustain is inferior to other classes. The Skills you use on MagDk mostly have a cost about 3.6k with all passives as breton exept your spammable and Skills that aren't class skills but are used as well like degeneration. I don't know how everyone thinks that 92 not buffable regen through battle roar is op but Sorcs having free conversions through unchained is fine... I play multiple classes and magdk feels the worst in terms of sustain. The 92 Regen wouldn't make MagDk stronger than ever... When we had costreduction in Cp we didn't need any Regen and could permablock easily... that would not be possible with 1 more ult per second not in the slightest.
I am oversimplifying things here but the math and thinking behind it is much more than I posted here. This post with all the things behind it took actually about 4 hours and many small changes over time.
You are missing the point. The issue isnt that you didnt do enough math. The issue that ur way of thinking when doing ur math is flat out wrong and you are just presenting numbers with no context.
DKs DO NOT interact with ult regen in the same way as other classes so stop comparing them to other classes. 1-2 ult per second IS NOT just 90 regen so stop downplaying the buff. DKs and ult regen is like pandoras box. Especially with crap like snb ult.
So as far as sustain is concerned let me get this straight, you are saying that DKs have the worst sustain when u put all the math down but you are too bored to do it so u just presented some numbers with no context to make ur point? Yeah thats not how it works mate. Again, im not saying that you are right or wrong in terms of which class has the worst sustain but weighing up all abilities in the same way to get an average cost when the abilities are not used in the same way, is most definitely wrong and doesnt prove anything at all. Templars use ritual twice as much as rune if not even more frequently. You cant take the average cost of the two abilities and present it as a number that indicates templar sustain. Thats misinformation and lack of understanding of the game.
And as far as expedition is concerned, you are basically saying that you dont want to mess up with identity but that is only for DKs. When it comes to stam sorcs screw them. Ok got it. And you are also saying that DK need it because they cant stand their ground but you are obviously going to just ignore that you suggested numerous buffs that help the class do exactly that. Ok that makes sense.
Yeah at this point it doesnt really sound that this is a list of what DKs actually need or that this is a topic of discussion. It mostly seems like a list of what you want without actually caring about balance and that this isnt really actually up for discussion.
Again, I am not too bored to put all the math down but it is a ton and people do not even read this post completely so how can i expect them to read 2-3 pages of mathematics. The outcome is still similar to the crappy math i put in here.
Yes ultgen is strong especially with ults like shieldult but again other classes have more magicka/stamina sustain and still have the ultgen to use ults more often than magdk. Idk what you wanna point out here because everything Dks would get from this is something other classes have exept its not related to battle roar and just comming from passives that are independend from ults. It would have the same outcome if they would remove Battle Roar give MagDk more ultgen passives like other classes and give them sustain through something like Conversion or Wardens sustain passives. It would have the same outcome. Battle Roar doesn't change that it just sounds more interesting than putting numbers without context into the game.
I do care about Stamsorcs class identity. I like Stamsorc and I think it needs more work to become more independend but if MagickaDks can't stand their ground which they probably will never be able to again they need any form of mobility and it doesn't have to be expedition but thats just the buff i would think about first. Zenimax doesn't like unique stuff like we have seen in previous patches. These days there are standards for everything and not many unique buffs like the fire damage increase from Engulfing for example. And Dks Ultimate Regeneration is not like pandoras box. It is very easy to understand and makes totally sense. It does not break the game by adding 1 Ult per second. Otherwise the game would be broken by now with the minor heroism potions and thats really not the problem the game has right now. They are perfectly fine and i have not heard anyone complaining about them being overpowered at all.
Joy_Division wrote: »I get it, Zos took what made DKs fun to play and threw it in the trash bin in favor of some boring percentage modifiers. The class probably feels hollow to play compared to what it once was.
But some of the suggestions you are giving are way too strong and basically ignore that every class is suffering from the things DKs are. Changing a pretty much usless health regen passive to 1 ultimate a second is crazy strong for any class, especially a DK. Every class basically has the same sustain issues; ever since Morrowind zos has repeatedly said they dont want us to have limitless resources, so we're all basically in the same boat there.
As for class identity, well that's a whole different bowl of wax. Im not sure exactly when Zos decided that Dks were the "DOT" class, but I can say when I enjoyed playing a DK, it wasn't becuase I liked putting slow damage over time effects on the bad guys. I played it becuase it could leap tall walls, reflected craven player's snipe spam back in their face, and was a intimidating in your face combatant that did more than "moar dots".
I totally agree with the sustain nerf from morrowind but compared to other classes MagDk just has worse sustain than any other.
Joy_Division wrote: »I get it, Zos took what made DKs fun to play and threw it in the trash bin in favor of some boring percentage modifiers. The class probably feels hollow to play compared to what it once was.
But some of the suggestions you are giving are way too strong and basically ignore that every class is suffering from the things DKs are. Changing a pretty much usless health regen passive to 1 ultimate a second is crazy strong for any class, especially a DK. Every class basically has the same sustain issues; ever since Morrowind zos has repeatedly said they dont want us to have limitless resources, so we're all basically in the same boat there.
As for class identity, well that's a whole different bowl of wax. Im not sure exactly when Zos decided that Dks were the "DOT" class, but I can say when I enjoyed playing a DK, it wasn't becuase I liked putting slow damage over time effects on the bad guys. I played it becuase it could leap tall walls, reflected craven player's snipe spam back in their face, and was a intimidating in your face combatant that did more than "moar dots".
I totally agree with the sustain nerf from morrowind but compared to other classes MagDk just has worse sustain than any other.
It just really doesn´t - if combustion works.
MagDK has probably the easiest and most straight forward in combat sustain of all classes. You don´t need to do anything for it (also the best synergy with elemental drain - bc you have a long duration aoe dot - which guarantees value out of drain even on defense or against dodging targets).
As for actually playing the classes from my personal experience as magica specs sustain wise:
DK (combustion works) < Warden < Templar < Sorc < NB < Necro < DK (combustion does not work)
Joy_Division wrote: »I get it, Zos took what made DKs fun to play and threw it in the trash bin in favor of some boring percentage modifiers. The class probably feels hollow to play compared to what it once was.
But some of the suggestions you are giving are way too strong and basically ignore that every class is suffering from the things DKs are. Changing a pretty much usless health regen passive to 1 ultimate a second is crazy strong for any class, especially a DK. Every class basically has the same sustain issues; ever since Morrowind zos has repeatedly said they dont want us to have limitless resources, so we're all basically in the same boat there.
As for class identity, well that's a whole different bowl of wax. Im not sure exactly when Zos decided that Dks were the "DOT" class, but I can say when I enjoyed playing a DK, it wasn't becuase I liked putting slow damage over time effects on the bad guys. I played it becuase it could leap tall walls, reflected craven player's snipe spam back in their face, and was a intimidating in your face combatant that did more than "moar dots".
I totally agree with the sustain nerf from morrowind but compared to other classes MagDk just has worse sustain than any other.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Overbuffing magDK and shoving stamDK into even more of a troll tank role... No thank you.
I wouldn't say DK class is doing very good at the moment however Its due to the fact that everyone has ridicilous self healing atm, which was previously unique to the DK class, and now as result Dks feel subpar.
What does Dk need then:
1. A bit more magicka sustain.Maybe cost reductions to certain abilities.
2. Dots across the board(including non-dk ones) needs buff I would say at least by %10-15
3. Healing across the board needs nerf for ALL specs by a good %30-35. Having a vigor or RR tooltip of 25k, without even building for it, is absurd. I won't even mention how overtuned stuff like matriarch heal is, anyone with eyes and a working brain can notice it.
4. Wings needs to pass through another rework as its too niche, weak in its current state. I don't want it overpowered but considering warden and sorcs have stronger skill absorbtion abilities, its very unfair to Dk which is an immobile class.
5. more stamina flavor. Not neccessarily buffs but more options to break stamDK out of the designated troll tank spot.
I agree with most of your points, burst healing is ridiculous in this game. Idk about buffing dots because thats literally what everyone complains about in duels. I think the new Wings are actually decent but just way too hard to sustain. I honestly don't think that this would be overbuffing MagDk but I might be wrong but thats why I said everything would need to be tested before it goes live. I think especially the Volatile/Hardened Armor change makes sense. I lean more towards nerfing burst healing and having heals over time since they are better to counter but that might just be personal preference idk but it's the reason why I think embers should heal over time and not work as a burst heal.
nosecookie wrote: »No.
Can you at least give a reason?
If we ignore the combustion passive - which should totally be reworked so it´s not 100% rendered useless against dunmer or people using a resistance glyph - DK is currently probably the #2 for magica classes open world with the highest skill/build versatility of all mag classes.
It doesn´t need anything apart from combustion being fixed and maybe a slight rework how the whip off-balance/proccs work.
As much as i´d personally wish for embers to work the way that you suggest - it would be massively overpowered especially with multidotting opponents.
Somewhat agree on a rework on molten weapons + morphs. All classes s hould have native sorcery in a worthwhile skill to use.
Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »I get it, Zos took what made DKs fun to play and threw it in the trash bin in favor of some boring percentage modifiers. The class probably feels hollow to play compared to what it once was.
But some of the suggestions you are giving are way too strong and basically ignore that every class is suffering from the things DKs are. Changing a pretty much usless health regen passive to 1 ultimate a second is crazy strong for any class, especially a DK. Every class basically has the same sustain issues; ever since Morrowind zos has repeatedly said they dont want us to have limitless resources, so we're all basically in the same boat there.
As for class identity, well that's a whole different bowl of wax. Im not sure exactly when Zos decided that Dks were the "DOT" class, but I can say when I enjoyed playing a DK, it wasn't becuase I liked putting slow damage over time effects on the bad guys. I played it becuase it could leap tall walls, reflected craven player's snipe spam back in their face, and was a intimidating in your face combatant that did more than "moar dots".
I totally agree with the sustain nerf from morrowind but compared to other classes MagDk just has worse sustain than any other.
You need to play other classes more if you feel that's the case
IronWooshu wrote: »Burst healing is the reason why DK's feel weak right now. Healing is overtuned in PVP while dots got nerfed. However the sustain issues I face daily in PVP are more of a problem. I am hoping the raised costs of DK skills were to prepare for a passive overhaul which will add to DK sustain and Ult generation.
IronWooshu wrote: »Burst healing is the reason why DK's feel weak right now. Healing is overtuned in PVP while dots got nerfed. However the sustain issues I face daily in PVP are more of a problem. I am hoping the raised costs of DK skills were to prepare for a passive overhaul which will add to DK sustain and Ult generation.
IronWooshu wrote: »Burst healing is the reason why DK's feel weak right now. Healing is overtuned in PVP while dots got nerfed. However the sustain issues I face daily in PVP are more of a problem. I am hoping the raised costs of DK skills were to prepare for a passive overhaul which will add to DK sustain and Ult generation.
I'm pretty sure its not burst healing, but HoTs. I have enough HoT healing on DK, Templar, Warden, and NB to face tank a zerg on breach getting hit with coldharbour and fire ballistas. The healing from some of these sets + skills is so high that I can heal from near 0 to 50 in less than 2 seconds with HoTs alone.
The fact of the matter is that DK can't compete with HoTs and cleanse because ZOS lowered damage and increased costs of skills - forcing you, the DK to take a double hit to damage: one from the nerf, the other when you build sustain. If not that, then you must lose survivability, sustain, and/or mobility -- three things that are more important than damage in PvP IMO.
EDIT: I should also mention that the damage reduction in the game is also ridiculous in recent patches, and I wonder if the damage reduction works properly sometimes and if ZOS realizes some of these sets that seem weak are really OP if and when you can force the conditions for their use...