Titles for DLC Achievements

codierussell · December 2019

Recently my group has been running through all the DLC skin and personality achievements. We are usually able to knock out an achievement within a couple tries every night, therefore we are running out of content fast.

My question is, why do achievements like mountain god, pure lunacy, and apex predator not have anything tied to them? A title at least would be nice, otherwise there is no reward for the accomplishment.

Monte_Cristo · December 2019

I still reckon the achievements points should be added to your crowns.

Taleof2Cities · December 2019

DLC clears come with a ton of rewards already, @codierussell. You mentioned the individual titles and skins ... but those dungeons have motif pages that can be turned into gold by selling them. Not to mention several usable monster helms.

Don’t worry about running out of content ... unless you’re nearing 38k+ achievement points in ESO, you have plenty of content still to clear:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/386482/achievement-points-leaderboard-dragonhold-38k-club/#latest

codierussell · December 2019

@Taleof2Cities I'm talking about 4 man PVE content. I could really care less about achievement points as I have 15 characters that I am constantly doing stuff on.

It makes no sense to have a no death, speed run and hard mode not give anything but 50 achievement points.

heaven13 · December 2019

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

DLC clears come with a ton of rewards already, @codierussell. You mentioned the individual titles and skins ... but those dungeons have motif pages that can be turned into gold by selling them. Not to mention several usable monster helms.

Don’t worry about running out of content ... unless you’re nearing 38k+ achievement points in ESO, you have plenty of content still to clear:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/386482/achievement-points-leaderboard-dragonhold-38k-club/#latest

The titles, skins, and motifs all come from Challenger or vet clear achievements, with guaranteed motif pages for the group by doing HM. There's no additional reward, other than the achievement itself, for doing the 3-in-1 which is typically a much more difficult challenge. Really, I'd just love an additional title for completing the 3-in-1. Starting with Mountain God.

codierussell · December 2019

@heaven13 that was exactly what my group was talking about today. We were really interested in a mountain god title, but as of right now there really is no point to doing the achievement.

heaven13 · December 2019

codierussell wrote: »

@heaven13 that was exactly what my group was talking about today. We were really interested in a mountain god title, but as of right now there really is no point to doing the achievement.

Still fun to do! I really enjoyed doing it (though admittedly Scalecaller is probably my favorite DLC dungeon).

Taleof2Cities · December 2019

codierussell wrote: »

@Taleof2Cities I'm talking about 4 man PVE content. I could really care less about achievement points as I have 15 characters that I am constantly doing stuff on.

It makes no sense to have a no death, speed run and hard mode not give anything but 50 achievement points.

Not sure if you read my post??

You do get other rewards for completing 4 man dungeons ... whether you prefer to acknowledge that or not.

Achievement points are, in fact, a measure of a player’s content completion in ESO ... whether you prefer to acknowledge that or not.

Only playing 4 man dungeons is a totally valid way to play the game. But, it’s not the only content in the game.

Bottom line: I do not agree with adding extra rewards for players re-doing the same content 15 times in a row.

heaven13 · December 2019

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

@Taleof2Cities I'm talking about 4 man PVE content. I could really care less about achievement points as I have 15 characters that I am constantly doing stuff on.

It makes no sense to have a no death, speed run and hard mode not give anything but 50 achievement points.

Not sure if you read my post??

You do get other rewards for completing 4 man dungeons ... whether you prefer to acknowledge that or not.

Achievement points are, in fact, a measure of a player’s content completion in ESO ... whether you prefer to acknowledge that or not.

Only playing 4 man dungeons is a totally valid way to play the game. But, it’s not the only content in the game.

Bottom line: I do not agree with adding extra rewards for players re-doing the same content 15 times in a row.

What's being asked for is the difference between Stormproof and Flawless Conqueror, between Sunspire Saint and Godslayer.

Is there a reason you object to such titles being added, when clearly that differentiation has already been made by ZoS for some content?

Royaji · December 2019

I'm definitely not going to lose sleep over it but I think at this point it is appropriate to reward titles for DLC dungeons tri-fectas.

codierussell · December 2019

@Taleof2Cities because achievement points mean nothing. You can not show it in game and nobody knows of the achievement. Also there are achievements that you need to do the same content over and over again to get it, like killing 300 necromancers in veteran fang lair. These achievements have titles and skins in other content like blackrose prison, why not in dungeons too?

Raisin · December 2019

@codierussell The reason for this is because there are already many people upset that skins/titles are locked behind vet content at all. It's about accessibility. Yes it feels horrible for us that the hardest achievement just does nothing... But if it did, people would be furious that it's a requirement to do the hardest achievement to collect all the cosmetics.

Contaminate · December 2019

Raisin wrote: »

@codierussell The reason for this is because there are already many people upset that skins/titles are locked behind vet content at all. It's about accessibility. Yes it feels horrible for us that the hardest achievement just does nothing... But if it did, people would be furious that it's a requirement to do the hardest achievement to collect all the cosmetics.

1) Titles aren’t cosmetics since they can be completely turned off by other players

2) Players who don’t make a serious effort to improve their gameplay need to get it through their heads that they don’t get the rewards from difficult achievements

More cosmetics should be added through play, but that doesn’t mean we ought to stop adding rewards for those who enjoy a challenge.

Qbiken · December 2019

Mountan god should definitely be a title

RogueShark · December 2019

I wondered this too. There's things like Immortal Redeemer, Godslayer, etc for trial equivalents. The only 4man content I can think of with a no-death, speed "HM" (no sigils) is BRP.

Even just using the achievement names as titles would be cool. Depths Defiler. Apex Predator. Mountain God. They're neat. No reason not to.

Xologamer · December 2019

codierussell wrote: »

Recently my group has been running through all the DLC skin and personality achievements. We are usually able to knock out an achievement within a couple tries every night, therefore we are running out of content fast.

My question is, why do achievements like mountain god, pure lunacy, and apex predator not have anything tied to them? A title at least would be nice, otherwise there is no reward for the accomplishment.

think there was a mountain god titel but got removed...

codierussell · December 2019

@RogueShark I agree. It would take no time at all for them to add the achievements since most achievement names are already great title names. Plus gives us a reason to run older content.

@Raisin my arguement to that would be it isn't lock behind anything. There are plenty of guides out there to improve dps, tanking and healing. Everyone can do it they just have to work at it. It's not like top end game players became the best at pve over night.

Raisin · December 2019

Contaminate wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

@codierussell The reason for this is because there are already many people upset that skins/titles are locked behind vet content at all. It's about accessibility. Yes it feels horrible for us that the hardest achievement just does nothing... But if it did, people would be furious that it's a requirement to do the hardest achievement to collect all the cosmetics.

1) Titles aren’t cosmetics since they can be completely turned off by other players

2) Players who don’t make a serious effort to improve their gameplay need to get it through their heads that they don’t get the rewards from difficult achievements

More cosmetics should be added through play, but that doesn’t mean we ought to stop adding rewards for those who enjoy a challenge.

Titles are cosmetic because they're a non-essential thing that changes how you appear to other players. The fact that people can toggle them doesn't make them less of a cosmetic. Also read below, you don't need to argue my own point to me. Take it up with ZOS.

@codierussell Good for you. That's my argument as well. Doesn't mean what I said isn't the reason things are the way they are. People already throw a fit over skins being locked behind JUST completion of a vet dungeon. A lot of people don't WANT to do that. They don't play the game like that. And ZOS has always made a big deal out of catering to casuals.

spekdah · December 2019

The rewards are inconsistent. It seemed to start out with a title for Vet completion, skin for challenger (hm, no death, speed) and a dye for getting both. There are some outliners like forge.

But recently they made it way easier, you got a skin for just doing vet Depths of Maletar and a pet for doing Lair. Also a cosmetic just for entering with Wrathstone.

IMO the titles for vet finish or challenger are fine. If they swap things around by giving the skin or pet early then give the title on challenger at least. Gives you something to strive for just like skins and dyes.

idk · December 2019

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

DLC clears come with a ton of rewards already, @codierussell. You mentioned the individual titles and skins ... but those dungeons have motif pages that can be turned into gold by selling them. Not to mention several usable monster helms.

Don’t worry about running out of content ... unless you’re nearing 38k+ achievement points in ESO, you have plenty of content still to clear:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/386482/achievement-points-leaderboard-dragonhold-38k-club/#latest

This and iirc there is a title with one of the other achievements for that dungeon. Not going to actually look an double check but thought there was a title for Conqueror of MoS. If I am wrong about that please say so. I can take it.

FierceSam · December 2019

codierussell wrote: »

Recently my group has been running through all the DLC skin and personality achievements. We are usually able to knock out an achievement within a couple tries every night, therefore we are running out of content fast.

My question is, why do achievements like mountain god, pure lunacy, and apex predator not have anything tied to them? A title at least would be nice, otherwise there is no reward for the accomplishment.

Isn’t the Achievement itself the reward? Isn’t that why you and your friends are doing them?

You can then link that achievement in chat for anyone you feel needs to know about it.

The problem with giving every Achievement a title, or a skin, or a mount is that there are 38 dungeons at present, each of which has at least 4 distinct Achievements, with an additional one for the single speedy HM no death run. This is 190 separate titles, which makes looking at them on a single page, let alone a drop down menu, bloody hard. And, given you can only use one at a time, most will be unused by anyone.

My main gripe with Achievements is that it would be nice to see that you had got them every time, rather than just the first time (simply because it’s nice to know that this particular run was a speed run, even if you’d done that many times before).

In terms of titles, my characters, even the newest one, each have more titles than they need. I’m not sure adding more would be helpful.

idk · December 2019

codierussell wrote: »

@Taleof2Cities I'm talking about 4 man PVE content. I could really care less about achievement points as I have 15 characters that I am constantly doing stuff on.

It makes no sense to have a no death, speed run and hard mode not give anything but 50 achievement points.

It simply comes down to some achievements grant a reward and some do not. MoS Challenger grants the beast personality which is essentially getting all the achievements in one run. Someone please correct me if I got some detail wrong.

Czekoludek · December 2019

FierceSam wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

Recently my group has been running through all the DLC skin and personality achievements. We are usually able to knock out an achievement within a couple tries every night, therefore we are running out of content fast.

My question is, why do achievements like mountain god, pure lunacy, and apex predator not have anything tied to them? A title at least would be nice, otherwise there is no reward for the accomplishment.

Isn’t the Achievement itself the reward? Isn’t that why you and your friends are doing them?

You can then link that achievement in chat for anyone you feel needs to know about it.

The problem with giving every Achievement a title, or a skin, or a mount is that there are 38 dungeons at present, each of which has at least 4 distinct Achievements, with an additional one for the single speedy HM no death run. This is 190 separate titles, which makes looking at them on a single page, let alone a drop down menu, bloody hard. And, given you can only use one at a time, most will be unused by anyone.

My main gripe with Achievements is that it would be nice to see that you had got them every time, rather than just the first time (simply because it’s nice to know that this particular run was a speed run, even if you’d done that many times before).

In terms of titles, my characters, even the newest one, each have more titles than they need. I’m not sure adding more would be helpful.

I think OP wanted to get something for trifecta achis from dungeons and we have it only couple right now, not 190

heaven13 · December 2019

idk wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

@Taleof2Cities I'm talking about 4 man PVE content. I could really care less about achievement points as I have 15 characters that I am constantly doing stuff on.

It makes no sense to have a no death, speed run and hard mode not give anything but 50 achievement points.

It simply comes down to some achievements grant a reward and some do not. MoS Challenger grants the beast personality which is essentially getting all the achievements in one run. Someone please correct me if I got some detail wrong.

It's not from getting them all in one run, it's from getting each one at some point. So you can do speed first then hard mode, then survivor all at different times. Once you've earned each of those (plus the initial vet clear) you get the personality, no matter if they were all in separate runs. Same as the Blackmarrow necromancer skin from Scalecaller and the Worm Wizard from Fang Lair. I'm fine with rewards working this way as it gives you something to work towards! But it would also be nice to have an additional title (just title, not extra personalities or skins) for the trifecta achievement.

idk · December 2019

heaven13 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

@Taleof2Cities I'm talking about 4 man PVE content. I could really care less about achievement points as I have 15 characters that I am constantly doing stuff on.

It makes no sense to have a no death, speed run and hard mode not give anything but 50 achievement points.

It simply comes down to some achievements grant a reward and some do not. MoS Challenger grants the beast personality which is essentially getting all the achievements in one run. Someone please correct me if I got some detail wrong.

It's not from getting them all in one run, it's from getting each one at some point. So you can do speed first then hard mode, then survivor all at different times. Once you've earned each of those (plus the initial vet clear) you get the personality, no matter if they were all in separate runs. Same as the Blackmarrow necromancer skin from Scalecaller and the Worm Wizard from Fang Lair. I'm fine with rewards working this way as it gives you something to work towards! But it would also be nice to have an additional title (just title, not extra personalities or skins) for the trifecta achievement.

Good. That dungeon has been out a while so I do not recall the specific needs. Just that there is a reward that OP seems to be overlooking.

Contaminate · December 2019

idk wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

@Taleof2Cities I'm talking about 4 man PVE content. I could really care less about achievement points as I have 15 characters that I am constantly doing stuff on.

It makes no sense to have a no death, speed run and hard mode not give anything but 50 achievement points.

It simply comes down to some achievements grant a reward and some do not. MoS Challenger grants the beast personality which is essentially getting all the achievements in one run. Someone please correct me if I got some detail wrong.

It's not from getting them all in one run, it's from getting each one at some point. So you can do speed first then hard mode, then survivor all at different times. Once you've earned each of those (plus the initial vet clear) you get the personality, no matter if they were all in separate runs. Same as the Blackmarrow necromancer skin from Scalecaller and the Worm Wizard from Fang Lair. I'm fine with rewards working this way as it gives you something to work towards! But it would also be nice to have an additional title (just title, not extra personalities or skins) for the trifecta achievement.

Good. That dungeon has been out a while so I do not recall the specific needs. Just that there is a reward that OP seems to be overlooking.

OP didn’t overlook anything, they were specifically asking for titles for the all-at-once achievements, similar to the Godslayer title

codierussell · December 2019

I'm not overlooking anything @idk. For the example of scalecaller peak, you get a title for completing hard mode, then a skin for completing hard mode, speed run and no death but those can all come in separate runs. That achievement I have and the skin and title that come with it. What I am talking about is the mountain god achievement which is completing the no death, speed and hard mode all in the same run. This is a much harder achievement to get but there is no reward other than achievement points which I do not care about since achievements are not account wide.

codierussell · December 2019

@FierceSam I don't know if they let you on PC but on console you cannot link achievements. The only thing to do with achievement points is taking a picture and posting it in the forums, which I don't because I have all my achievements spread across many characters.

heaven13 · December 2019

For anyone curious, I made a little chart of all the dungeon/trial/arena rewards. Dyes are only mentioned when they're the only reward for a particular clear.

As you can see, ZoS is still trying to work out the best formula for delivery of rewards for dungeons.

Imperial City required that you get Challenger for both ICP and WGT before getting the pet. However, Imperial City DLC was not a true dungeon DLC since the sewers all have their own set of achievements and rewards as well.
Shadows of the Hist gave a personality for entering either of the dungeons the first time, and different skins in each for Challenger.
The following 3 dungeons did rewards for entering the first time, titles for vet clears, titles for hardmodes, and then something cosmetic for Challenger. Obviously, people weren't happy that they needed challenger to get the cosmetic items.
The latest 2 dungeons swapped things around, with the cosmetic rewards being awarded upon vet completion, with titles for challenger instead.

What I propose:

Normal: Same as now
Vet Clear: Cosmetic reward (following latest reward structure)
Hard Mode: No Reward
Challenger: Title
Trifecta: Title

By adopting the proposed reward structure, everyone can benefit as the cosmetics are at the lower rung of the ladder so people don't feel obligated to run multiple clears for challenger or feel that these cosmetics are completely out of reach. It fits with ZoS's intent to provide more desirable rewards to a larger portion of the playerbase.

Titles then would be reserved for those that want to go beyond that and get Challenger and/or Trifecta achievements. I'm not opposed to Hard Mode getting a title necessarily but, since a Hard Mode clear is one of the requirements for the Challenger achievement and if ZoS wants to keep the reward structure to two titles per dungeon, I feel Challenger and Trifecta are the better choices. This also more closely follows the reward structure that is in place for trials.

FierceSam · December 2019

codierussell wrote: »

@FierceSam I don't know if they let you on PC but on console you cannot link achievements. The only thing to do with achievement points is taking a picture and posting it in the forums, which I don't because I have all my achievements spread across many characters.

On PC you can right click on the achievement in your journal and put that achievement and your progress in it into chat.

So for Mountain God you would be able to link that and others in chat would be able to see you had that achievement on that character.

Given the trifecta from any dungeon is a great achievement, maybe ZOS should implement a unique way of acknowledging them and giving players on all systems a way of flaunting these achievements.

I’m still not convinced that adding another title is the best option.

Czekoludek · December 2019

I would prefer completely new reward for those achievements, maybe aura effect for achievement? Red aura effect like from Shadow Rider Senche on my nightblade would be so awesome