Is Shadow Cloak universal counter play balance and is the global cooldown a reflection of a counter

phoenixkungfu · December 2019

Hi everyone, it is my belief that all skills should have universal counter play. Shadow cloak is the best get away abilitie in the game in my opinion. The counter play all comes at a very situational gameplay counter. That requires sacrifice on the opponent and not the user of Shadow Cloak. It is my belief that all skill should be fast pace and all skill should have a UNIVERSAL COUNTER. Unfortunately the universal counter to SHADOW CLOAK UNIVERSAL COOLDOWN OF 1SECOND. IS EXTREMELY UNBALANCE IN FAVOR OF A NIGHTBLADE. It is my opinion that the global cooldown of Shadow Cloak should be increased to 4 seconds. If pull out of stealth. This would create universal counter play for a nightblade that is pulled out of stealth. And prevent prema cloak build from having 1 sided gameplay in favor of nightblade playstyle. I believe that the ability to Shadow Cloak and guarantee the first attack on the opponent. Is a HUGE ADVANTAGE and the risk reward is in favor of a Shadow Cloak user. This is not balance.

Taleof2Cities · December 2019

In before all the L2P posts and Chunky Cat ...

ShadowKyuubi · December 2019

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Hi everyone, it is my belief that all skills should have universal counter play. Shadow cloak is the best get away abilitie in the game in my opinion. The counter play all comes at a very situational gameplay counter. That requires sacrifice on the opponent and not the user of Shadow Cloak. It is my belief that all skill should be fast pace and all skill should have a UNIVERSAL COUNTER. Unfortunately the universal counter to SHADOW CLOAK UNIVERSAL COOLDOWN OF 1SECOND. IS EXTREMELY UNBALANCE IN FAVOR OF A NIGHTBLADE. It is my opinion that the global cooldown of Shadow Cloak should be increased to 4 seconds. If pull out of stealth. This would create universal counter play for a nightblade that is pulled out of stealth. And prevent prema cloak build from having 1 sided gameplay in favor of nightblade playstyle. I believe that the ability to Shadow Cloak and guarantee the first attack on the opponent. Is a HUGE ADVANTAGE and the risk reward is in favor of a Shadow Cloak user. This is not balance.

Surely he is related to Delparis.

Gatdangmayne · December 2019

Dude, i understand thinking some things are op...i understand making suggestions to the game...but literally every nerf thread I've clicked lately is from you mr Kungfu.

L2p.

Cloak is annoying. Slot aoes, detect pots, or one of the detect skills. Cc the nb. Win

khajiitNPC · December 2019

As a stamblade, I agree but you won’t find much support here. I think there are a lot of counters to shadowy disguise, but a majority of them don’t work very well on a NB that knows what they are doing.

In the hands of an inexperienced NB shadowy disguise is laughable, and maybe being proficient at using it, is a reward in itself that most NB won’t achieve —

that being said, I think if they made the counters more reliable (outside of slotting detect pots), it could encourage a more exciting game play for both NB and opponent.

Shadowy disguise in a vacuum is not OP but shadowy disguise, speed pots, shade, RAT, TK/BS, Regen Drink, give NB a massive advantage in survivability, but again that is only in the hands of a truly competent player. And maybe that should be our reward. Myself I don’t play NB anymore because I don’t feel challenged with it. That and there is a plateau when you get GUD.

So I can see both sides of it, if you’re a garbage NB the most you’re going to do is SD until you run out of magicka then die, or you just won’t kill anyone but noobs. While the more experience NB won’t really have to crutch on the skill too much, because a lot of times their opponent won’t survive anyhow. Or if they know who you are in Cyrodiil they’ll just avoid you or “zerg” you down.

I personally don’t engage in the “derp derp come chase me while I LoS”, one because I don’t enjoy that game play, it’s not fun to me, effective but not fun. I would suggest quit chasing them, or have a friend help kill them.

jcm2606 · December 2019

Even though I personally think cloak is long overdue for a nerf, I gotta say, dude, chill. In the past like month, you've made 11 threads that basically all amounted to "I think this is OP, pls nurf". Chill.

MashmalloMan · December 2019

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Hi everyone, it is my belief that all skills should have universal counter play. Shadow cloak is the best get away abilitie in the game in my opinion. The counter play all comes at a very situational gameplay counter. That requires sacrifice on the opponent and not the user of Shadow Cloak. It is my belief that all skill should be fast pace and all skill should have a UNIVERSAL COUNTER. Unfortunately the universal counter to SHADOW CLOAK UNIVERSAL COOLDOWN OF 1SECOND. IS EXTREMELY UNBALANCE IN FAVOR OF A NIGHTBLADE. It is my opinion that the global cooldown of Shadow Cloak should be increased to 4 seconds. If pull out of stealth. This would create universal counter play for a nightblade that is pulled out of stealth. And prevent prema cloak build from having 1 sided gameplay in favor of nightblade playstyle. I believe that the ability to Shadow Cloak and guarantee the first attack on the opponent. Is a HUGE ADVANTAGE and the risk reward is in favor of a Shadow Cloak user. This is not balance.

Wow your in denial if you think a 4s CD is a good idea.. Why don't you erase your whole post and just write, "I died to a NB, please nerf Cloak." beccause that's exactly what it basically says. Play more than 1 class before you spout your nonsence and ruin other peoples enjoyment of their class.

phoenixkungfu · December 2019

Well out of a week I play on average 30hours plus. That's alot, I enjoy the game to the point of saying I love this game. However over that past years. I simply just don't see ANY FOCUS ON COUNTER PLAY. No one speaking up about abilities that are seen daily that makes me as a player say how is that fair and how do I counter it. Without so much sacrifice? In Most situations the demand to sacrifice is on the defender while these types of abilities are just natural advantage to the users. There abused alot. Shadow Cloak is a abilities that I believe was designed with offense intend but is abused for defense and it's not balance. There should be a better UNIVERSAL COUNTER PLAY. the global cooldown is simply to fast. The defender should feel natural gameplay that flow smoothly. Just as much as the user of these kind of MAJOR ADVANTAGE ABILITIES. that in some cases carry gameplay. My greatest goal is to see balance and awareness. in term of what is most forgotten after year of abilities audits. This forgotten element is GAMEPLAY BALANCE THAT IS UNIVERSAL. My favorite game(eso) is lacking heavily in this element.

MashmalloMan · December 2019

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Well out of a week I play on average 30hours plus. That's alot, I enjoy the game to the point of saying I love this game. However over that past years. I simply just don't see ANY FOCUS ON COUNTER PLAY. No one speaking up about abilities that are seen daily that makes me as a player say how is that fair and how do I counter it. Without so much sacrifice? In Most situations the demand to sacrifice is on the defender while these types of abilities are just natural advantage to the users. There abused alot. Shadow Cloak is a abilities that I believe was designed with offense intend but is abused for defense and it's not balance. There should be a better UNIVERSAL COUNTER PLAY. the global cooldown is simply to fast. The defender should feel natural gameplay that flow smoothly. Just as much as the user of these kind of MAJOR ADVANTAGE ABILITIES. that in some cases carry gameplay. My greatest goal is to see balance and awareness. in term of what is most forgotten after year of abilities audits. This forgotten element is GAMEPLAY BALANCE THAT IS UNIVERSAL. My favorite game(eso) is lacking heavily in this element.

Your suggestion is AWFUL and requires much more thought. That is why we have costs for abilities. You want to fix the spamming of the ability, make it cost more on each subsequent cast exactly like Streak. Furthermore, you're extremely biased. Most people here have read your other posts. You have a clear lack of empahy and understanding for anyone but Mag Sorc.

I'll let other people poke holes in your argument about Cloak, a lot of what you said can be applied to Streak, unlblockable, undodgeable, aoe, stun. Moves you for either offense or defense. Stacking cost.

That is what cloak needs imo. That's all.

And I love Sorc, but I know Streak is a bit overtuned right now. Notice your bias and acknowledge it or else no one will take anything you say seriously. Almost all of your posts are your opinions about nerfing other classes.

NBrookus · December 2019

Me on NB: cloak never works!

Me on everything else: cloak always works!

Sounds about right.

Between armor sets, skills and potions, cloak has counters.

KageNin · December 2019

L2P

idk · December 2019

First off this UNIVERSAL COUNTER seems to be smoke and mirrors for removing skill from the game and make the counters an "I win" button.

There are multiple hard counters to cloak in the game and even more soft counters. It does require someone actually figure out how to use them effectively and then actually use them. Much of the game is the same way.

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Unfortunately the universal counter to SHADOW CLOAK UNIVERSAL COOLDOWN OF 1SECOND. IS EXTREMELY UNBALANCE IN FAVOR OF A NIGHTBLADE.

For this sentence to have any truth to the matter it means whoever is attacking or being attacked by the NB is not using a counter or at the very least is not using the counter well. That 1 second GCD becomes totally irrelevant when the NB cloak is being countered properly.

Granted, I agree that the greater the degree in skill level between the NB and the other player plays a big role in success. A skilled NB is not a one trick pony for starters and when up against a much lower killed player they will pawn them hard just like any other class combination. Turn the tables, a lesser skilled NB would have trouble against an attacker of greater skill.

That is how it should be. This is not a simplistic combat design like we have in WoW, SWTOR or FFIV.

Sorbin · December 2019

Don't build squishy and make detect pots. Literally the only counterplay you need to stealth. I can't remember the last time I was properly ganked in CP PvP that didn't involve a ton of latency.

phoenixkungfu · December 2019

Sorry but I play the game alot and I play outnumbered all the time your statement are simply not true. Cloak is a 1 trick pony. If a player doesn't have a specific counter. It will MASSIVELY PUT THE NIGHTBLADES AT A ADVANTAGE. Skill have nothing to do with it. It's the design of a nightblade being able to reset the fight and fight on a nightblade term.

As far as lp2.
(Of course if I dont die to a gank)
Once again your wrong . I almost never die to nightblades unless baiting goes wrong. Yes baiting because nightblades can fight on there terms, the gameplay is to let them hit you and use a counter? It's a very sad gameplay but it the reality. Stealth is that powerful. Most times a night can reset and reset despite massive advantage of guarantee first hit. Stealth once again is that powerful.

So what is the balance
Simple the reward of the getaway element is simply overpreforming with the offensive nature and a free surprise attack advantage. The risk reward is simply to high in favor of a cloak spammer. the universal cooldown of a sec is simply not enough of a universal counter gameplay. The gameplay is all but non existent at a second in terms of universal counter gameplay. Sorry but you have been proven wrong.
This is a fact.

Sorbin · December 2019

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Sorry but I play the game alot and I play outnumbered all the time your statement are simply not true. Cloak is a 1 trick pony. If a player doesn't have a specific counter. It will MASSIVELY PUT THE NIGHTBLADES AT A ADVANTAGE. Skill have nothing to do with it. It's the design of a nightblade being able to reset the fight and fight on a nightblade term.

As far as lp2.
(Of course if I dont die to a gank)
Once again your wrong . I almost never die to nightblades unless baiting goes wrong. Yes baiting because nightblades can fight on there terms, the gameplay is to let them hit you and use a counter? It's a very sad gameplay but it the reality. Stealth is that powerful. Most times a night can reset and reset despite massive advantage of guarantee first hit. Stealth once again is that powerful.

So what is the balance
Simple the reward of the getaway element is simply overpreforming with the offensive nature and a free surprise attack advantage. The risk reward is simply to high in favor of a cloak spammer. the universal cooldown of a sec is simply not enough of a universal counter gameplay. The gameplay is all but non existent at a second in terms of universal counter gameplay. Sorry but you have been proven wrong.
This is a fact.

Who cares if they can hit first and reset the fight? Have you played a MMO before? That's stealth gameplay. You can drink a single potion and crush them in an instant.

You'd probably be a lot happier if you actually walked outside rather than continuing to post these walls of broken Engrish gibberish.

phoenixkungfu · December 2019

Your version of skill is not my version of skill. You reward spamming as skill. I reward timing as skill.

You can counter and pull a nightblade out of stealth all day with timing. But the global cooldown doesn't reward skill counter gameplay. It rewards cloak spam. The timing of skill is irrelevant due to the cloak override all attacks as miss.

Your version of spam is not the true version of skill. Spam vs timing. counter play that is universal equal skill gameplay. Your veiw has been proven wrong.
This is a fact

Sorbin · December 2019

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Your version of skill is not my version of skill. You reward spamming as skill. I reward timing as skill.

You can counter and pull a nightblade out of stealth all day with timing. But the global cooldown doesn't reward skill counter gameplay. It rewards cloak spam. The timing of skill is irrelevant due to the cloak override all attacks as miss.

Your version of spam is not the true version of skill. Spam vs timing. counter play that is universal equal skill gameplay. Your veiw has been proven wrong.
This is a fact

"Cloak spam" isn't rewarded at all unless you're a terribad who can't kill them. The rest of your post is crack-baby gibberish. This is a fact.

phoenixkungfu · December 2019

Let's break down your statement. Is it advantage to say the large major of attacks miss when a cloak spammer press cloak. Despite timing of being behind on frames. Meaning cloak override a attack as a miss. Therefore rewarding bad timing with a cloak get away.
Sorry but you statement is proven wrong.
This is a fact

idk · December 2019

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Let's break down your statement. Is it advantage to say the large major of attacks miss when a cloak spammer press cloak. Despite timing of being behind on frames. Meaning cloak override a attack as a miss. Therefore rewarding bad timing with a cloak get away.
Sorry but you statement is proven wrong.
This is a fact

The OP of this thread has been proven wrong.

If you are having trouble using the counters to cloak practice more and maybe try different counters. They work great and are very reliable when used correctly.

idk · December 2019

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Your version of skill is not my version of skill. You reward spamming as skill. I reward timing as skill.

You can counter and pull a nightblade out of stealth all day with timing. But the global cooldown doesn't reward skill counter gameplay. It rewards cloak spam. The timing of skill is irrelevant due to the cloak override all attacks as miss.

Your version of spam is not the true version of skill. Spam vs timing. counter play that is universal equal skill gameplay. Your veiw has been proven wrong.
This is a fact

Oddly here you are correct and incorrect at the same time. Yes, timing and of course awareness are important parts of skill. It is often what sets players apart.

However, hard counters prevent cloak from being used for longer than a GCD, a few seconds at minimum. So if the NB is cloaking within a GCD then the counter is not being used properly. That is a fact. Sounds like someone has some work to do in figuring out how to sue a counter properly.

Spartabunny08 · December 2019

Your 1 sec GCD is not going to change anything for countering a good NB. I'd just roll dodge around you and cloak off. Btw you spam cloak you'll be out of magic so fast and then dead. No good NB would ever spam cloak unless it doesn't work. Cloak is a 3 sec ability you wait 3 secs then hit it again. Depends on how the NB builds themselves, I have 4 of them and 1 of them is designed completely defensive. This one in particular is extremely hard to kill, I get out of 99% of everything. This idea is only an extra roll dodge and I would be gone.