What's Worse? Fake Tank or Fake Healer.

[Deleted User] · December 2019

Hello there,

Recently we've had to remove a few posts for flaming and baiting, content that is against the Forum Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid thread derailment.

Thank you for understanding.

zvavi · December 2019

Fake Tanking

Asardes wrote: »

Arx Corinium was pledge today so I queued on my Mag Warden as tank (has skills and gear for all 3 roles). On the first trash pull I noticed that stuff didn't die, checked CMX, group DPS was around 30K of which I was doing 10K or so as tank. Once that fight was done I just switched to my DD gear, slotted inner rage and plowed trough the rest of the dungeon. I was doing 50-60% of the group DPS while mostly block casting. But on the last boss I activated the scroll and switched back to tank just for the laughs. The boss took forever to die although I was keeping here in the water so she would not get the shield. That boss also has the bad habit of breaking the taunt half the time so I laughed hard seeing it wipe the floor with the other 3 players. I mean one was a lowbie, around 250 CP but the others were 750 CP and 810 CP respectively and they couldn't keep themselves alive, and their damage was total BS. I think they managed 12K in total on the boss till the end of the fight. I was doing 4-5K on top of that and I didn't die so we got it done

@Asardes it aint breaking taunt, it is a mechanic, if someone is too far away from her, she will jump on it. I actually managed to protect my teammates once by making sure i am the farthest away from her and just blocking the jump... Generally the ok range (when she doesn't jump) is a bit bigger than the red aoe she does, but to be safe moving inside the aoe after she is done is advised.

Edit: scrap it i got confused with tempest island, in arx i think that inner fire actually taunts her, while normal puncture just bugs

DraconicFalcon · December 2019

They as both as bad as each other.

I wish there is a "Fake DD" option.

I do not encounter much fake tanks or fake healers as I am mostly a tank main. But what I do note is that these fake tanks/healers tend to appear a lot more often in normals rather than vets. Majority of the time it is not too much of an issue because normals tend to be easy and everything gets destroyed quickly (other than some DLC normal dungeons) before any real pressure could be felt. But I can see how its a problem if everyone in the pug group is new to the game and no one has any idea of what they are doing.

On vets, fake healers or fake tanks are not encountered as much, but god there are a lot of horrible/fake DDs that don't even have a completed set, or just do nothing but light attacking constantly. In base game vets, whenever I encounter horrible DDs, I can at least tank in dps gear to carry the group, but when these DDs appear in vet DLC dungeons, it is a nightmare. In vet DLCs, the bosses and mobs hit harder and it certainly likely isn't possible to tank and survive in DPS gear, and so there is nothing you the tank can do to make the experience less aggravating. Sure tank can just give more DPS buffs and debuffing enemies, but its not going magically help a fake DD get his dps of 5k to jump to 20k. And sometimes, these fake DDs will fail to realise they are the problem and keep blaming tank for not being able to survive the enraged Atros in vICP or the million trash mobs that spawn in boss fights in Scalebreaker dungeons.

Asardes · December 2019

Fake Tanking

zvavi wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Arx Corinium was pledge today so I queued on my Mag Warden as tank (has skills and gear for all 3 roles). On the first trash pull I noticed that stuff didn't die, checked CMX, group DPS was around 30K of which I was doing 10K or so as tank. Once that fight was done I just switched to my DD gear, slotted inner rage and plowed trough the rest of the dungeon. I was doing 50-60% of the group DPS while mostly block casting. But on the last boss I activated the scroll and switched back to tank just for the laughs. The boss took forever to die although I was keeping here in the water so she would not get the shield. That boss also has the bad habit of breaking the taunt half the time so I laughed hard seeing it wipe the floor with the other 3 players. I mean one was a lowbie, around 250 CP but the others were 750 CP and 810 CP respectively and they couldn't keep themselves alive, and their damage was total BS. I think they managed 12K in total on the boss till the end of the fight. I was doing 4-5K on top of that and I didn't die so we got it done

@Asardes it aint breaking taunt, it is a mechanic, if someone is too far away from her, she will jump on it. I actually managed to protect my teammates once by making sure i am the farthest away from her and just blocking the jump... Generally the ok range (when she doesn't jump) is a bit bigger than the red aoe she does, but to be safe moving inside the aoe after she is done is advised.

Edit: scrap it i got confused with tempest island, in arx i think that inner fire actually taunts her, while normal puncture just bugs

Nah, it's just her mechanic. I know it for 4 years and it was always like that. Did the dungeon dozens of times on 10 characters over that time. She resets her taunt from time to time and jumps at a random player. A few bosses have this too, like the final one in Spindle 2, the big spider in Fungal 2.

In this case both DDs were archers so they sat on the islands. One was spamming Acid Spray and the other Snipe. The healer did more than heavy attack with a resto staff. No trace of Endless Hail whatsoever. And they got rekt when the boss jumped at them. Of course it would have been much easier if everyone stacked on the boss. A proper healer can heal trough the electricity damage.

Varkal2112 · December 2019

Some content needs no tank, most content needs no healer. What's worse is the 5k dps casual. To imply that a real tank or healer should waste 1h of their life crawling through trivial content with you is beyond self-centered.

MajBludd · December 2019

Dont pug dungeons if you dont want to deal with, pugs.

FierceSam · December 2019

They as both as bad as each other.

MajBludd wrote: »

Dont pug dungeons if you dont want to deal with, pugs.

Or don't pug dungeons if you can't deal with... other people

zvavi · December 2019

Fake Tanking

FierceSam wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

Dont pug dungeons if you dont want to deal with, pugs.

Or don't pug dungeons if you can't deal with... other people

Humans are scary :hides:

Eso101rus · December 2019

Assuming we are talking veteran as normal shouldn’t be in the question. Most content doesn’t need a healer, yes even most dlc dungeons, so Fake tank would be most people’s idea of the bigger problem. As both tank and dd I’ve seen it all. I think people need to understand what they need to bring to a dungeon. Dd’s Should really think about a self heal and a skill that offers their group a synergy.

Dd’s running ice staff is a classic from a tank position, if you are DPS and you run an ice staff and you get kicked.....yes it was me.

DaveMoeDee · December 2019

Eso101rus wrote: »

Assuming we are talking veteran as normal shouldn’t be in the question. Most content doesn’t need a healer, yes even most dlc dungeons, so Fake tank would be most people’s idea of the bigger problem. As both tank and dd I’ve seen it all. I think people need to understand what they need to bring to a dungeon. Dd’s Should really think about a self heal and a skill that offers their group a synergy.

Dd’s running ice staff is a classic from a tank position, if you are DPS and you run an ice staff and you get kicked.....yes it was me.

No need to kick them. Just tell them to not do heavy attacks. Ice staff isn't a reason to kick. Continuing to taunt and die is a reason or dps too low to progress.

scrosedk · December 2019

They as both as bad as each other.

I personally tolerate neither in Veteran Dungeons, especially in the DLC ones.
I don't like the idea that results can justify the means. Therefore it is nothing about whether the dungeon can be done or not to me. It is about the sense of the very basic duty of the role one chooses to play. I am a traditional player, and I prefer to play with no shams. And by sham, I mean those who is below my bottom line:

1.Tanks must have at least one taunt skill slotted and actually use it.
2.Healers must have at least one healing skill BENEFITING the team slotted and actually cast it.

Feel free to be "creative" in my presence, If you think you must do it. I'll just :

1. Vote to kick.
2. Leave in case 1 fails.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · December 2019

Fake Tanking

I can work around a fake healer and self heal without affecting my DPS output too much. I can't work around a fake tank when I'm being chased around the room by a boss the whole time.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · December 2019

Fake Tanking

My main and the alt I use the most for dungeons both heal, so either I AM the healer or I can cover for them.

The closest I've come to tanking is equipping sword and shield while running random normals. So a fake tank is definitely more painful for me.

January1171 · December 2019

They as both as bad as each other.

Honestly as long as we're not constantly dying/taking significantly longer, I really don't care.

MEBengalsFan2001 · December 2019

Fake tanks are the worst.

A real tank with a hybrid healer along with two DPS is the best setup for most dungeons. This way the healer can ensure that the tank survives with minimal healing and is able to help the damage side by pulling down some ok damage to help with the burn.

A fake healer is easier to get by with do to how all classes have a healing ability that also does decent damage. Overall;

Contaminate · December 2019

Fake Tanking

Have to agree with the people saying healing is mostly a redundant role once dps levels get high enough. Just keeping the essentials for lokk synergy procs, berserk, and warhorn and you’re probably all set for a group with high dps, grab a HoT or two and then go damage abilities.

Granted, this is a dungeons kind of thing, for trials you still need at least one full-on healer.

Ascarl · December 2019

Fake Tanking

Same threads over and over again...

scrosedk · December 2019

They as both as bad as each other.

Ascarl wrote: »

Same threads over and over again...

Yeah, unless there comes a better system to regulate ppl's in-game behavior, i bet threads as such will be more.

zvavi · December 2019

Fake Tanking

So i had a fake tank in a vdlc dungeon. Finished relogging to tank and carrying hard. But ye, didnt feel like tanking though, still meh

January1171 · December 2019

They as both as bad as each other.

wolfbone wrote: »

juhislihis19 wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

How about two fake DDs?

No such thing.

Fake DPS is a "DPS" who does less than 5k damage per second. So probably less than the tank. Thus, a fake DPS. Even if one is a total noob, you have get some kind of dps gear/set up on. Rather than 7 different set pieces.

Normal dungeons don't need tanks to be honest. I always queu with a fake tank for normal randoms, and never had any problems because as a fake tank, I also heal myself and others and usually do more dps than the "noob dps's". So everyone stays alive and burns the Boss in relative quick fashion.

I never fake tank a veteran dungeon though. That's just silly.

wow. so in you view, I must be a fake dps, cos I dont do your standard of damage that you deem okay for dungeons.

Honestly, in the context of PUGs, I'd be really annoyed if I were paired with a dd doing less than 5k dps. 5k is a super low bar. If someone has been in the game for a while and they're hitting less than 5k dps, they really should be reevaluating their build and/or not running PUG dungeons.

AzurasDaddy · December 2019

Fake Tanking

What's a healer?

Gythral · December 2019

Fake Tanking

fake

Fixed Activity Finder

apophis999 · December 2019

In the end it doesn't really matter if you are on a DD or healer and know what you are doing. Fake tank? I just slot inner rage and hold the boss myself. Works on pretty much all vet dungeons that aren't DLC. Lose a bit of DPS cause rotation is off but not as much as chasing around an untaunted target. And you have to be able to block and dodge roll appropriately. Fake heal? If I'm tanking I don't care. I pretty much do all dungeons and normal trials assuming I won't get adequate healing. Part of a tank is managing that. If I'm on DPS I don't even notice what the healer is doing, other than I may be self healing more than normal. Fake DPS is when I queue on my tank and get two DD that can't pass the spindleclutch DPS check on the second boss (yes, there is one, the ceiling falls down and instawipes). That you can't really overcome unless you can swap your tank gear out and become a fake tank to outdps your fake DPS. My favorite was kicking a fake tank from vet direfrost before the first boss (was running from trash that was hitting them) and getting hm/no death /speed run with only 3.

El_Borracho · December 2019

Fake Tanking

Fake tanks. If I'm pugging, I'm already on a character that can heal itself.

Haethel · December 2019

A fake dps is when you get someone joining vSS as a "dps" but keeps taunting the dragon and wiping the group. Someone in heavy armour and wielding sword and board, doing less damage than the real tanks.

This is a fake dps: https://www.esologs.com/reports/v47qaB9tn8JQyg3w#fight=11&source=3
(player in question is anonymous)

We offered to just carry them through the rest of the trial so they could get their skin, as long as they promised to stop casting a taunt.

Goregrinder · December 2019

It's probably worse when Fake DPS shows up. No rotation, something like 5k dps in Normal....not contributing to ANYTHING. At least a fake healer will have SOME group healing. That's more useful than DPS armed with pillows as weapons.

CassandraGemini · December 2019

They as both as bad as each other.

Haethel wrote: »

A fake dps is when you get someone joining vSS as a "dps" but keeps taunting the dragon and wiping the group. Someone in heavy armour and wielding sword and board, doing less damage than the real tanks.

This is a fake dps: https://www.esologs.com/reports/v47qaB9tn8JQyg3w#fight=11&source=3
(player in question is anonymous)

We offered to just carry them through the rest of the trial so they could get their skin, as long as they promised to stop casting a taunt.

I said before in this thread that there is no such thing as a "fake" dps, that they're just "bad" dps instead... but after looking at this (since I play on console I'm not used to these fancy add-ons, pretty interesting to be able to see all those stats from a different player), I have to admit, I'm reconsidering my statement here... Why someone with gear like that, who didn't even attack for several minutes - if I'm interpreting this thing correctly - would want to run a veteran trial is kind of beyond me.

Fiewiel · December 2019

Haethel wrote: »

A fake dps is when you get someone joining vSS as a "dps" but keeps taunting the dragon and wiping the group. Someone in heavy armour and wielding sword and board, doing less damage than the real tanks.

This is a fake dps: https://www.esologs.com/reports/v47qaB9tn8JQyg3w#fight=11&source=3
(player in question is anonymous)

We offered to just carry them through the rest of the trial so they could get their skin, as long as they promised to stop casting a taunt.

That looks like a dragonknight tank.
The templar healer was using blazing spears according to this webpage. Is this a thing (cd on synergies with eorb)?

Haethel · December 2019

This is indeed a thing in situations where it's impossible to hit everyone with the same orb and especially in vSS fire boss where the offtank is miles away on the other side of the arena. The orb goes to the group. The spears go to the tanks.

LegacyDM · December 2019

fake tank is the worst. Everyone has enough skills to self heal. Not everyone slots a taunt or goes s&b. But everyone has heals. I myself build my toon to do DPS and self heal because you never know when you need to heal yourself. But I have to rely on a tank to hold aggro Or else everyone gets slaughtered healing or not.