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ZOS, may we have a comment on PS4 botting?
SickleCider
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I hope someone will take the time to comment on the botting situation on PS4. It would be nice to hear whether there is a plan for dealing with it, or what some of the difficulties may be. I don't know if it's the same on EU, but it's gotten outrageously out of hand on NA.
Starter zones are absolutely infested. Bleakrock is the worst. I'm watching bots climb on top of each other in competition for nodes. The really good ones arrive at the exact moment a node spawns. Then, about two or three others run up and stand there for a while. There's always a cluster of sorcerers simultaneously triggering lightning form and pulling wolves outside of Deathclaw's lair.
I'm fatigued from reporting as many of them as I can every time I visit.
A comment, please?
Starter zones are absolutely infested. Bleakrock is the worst. I'm watching bots climb on top of each other in competition for nodes. The really good ones arrive at the exact moment a node spawns. Then, about two or three others run up and stand there for a while. There's always a cluster of sorcerers simultaneously triggering lightning form and pulling wolves outside of Deathclaw's lair.
I'm fatigued from reporting as many of them as I can every time I visit.
A comment, please?
✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨
5
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jircris11✭✭✭✭✭
✭Per normal, botting is and will be an issue no matter the game. There is no true combative way to solve it as you can ban them but they will return minutes later. Only way to TRUELY stop it is if people stopped using their services. Sadly we live in a word if laziness so there will always be some one who will use the service. I have dealt with bots as a gm on wow as well as wildstar, sadly it seemed like every one I banned two more took its place. Kind of like cutting the head off of a hydra.IGN: Ki'rah
Khajiit/Vampire
DC/AD faction/NA server.
RPer4 -
Contaminate✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS doesn't care enough to hire any GMs to deal with bots like they used to, and ZOS uses the presence of bot accounts to boost their player stats so... I wouldn't expect anything8 -
Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
They dont make farming worthless. They just prevent greedy farmers jacking up prices.5 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
They dont make farming worthless. They just prevent greedy farmers jacking up prices.
There is no such thing as a greedy farmer. The market revolves around supply and demand.6 -
Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »
They dont make farming worthless. They just prevent greedy farmers jacking up prices.
There is no such thing as a greedy farmer. The market revolves around supply and demand.
Lmao. Go to any trader and see for yourself. Alot of ppl try to sell stack of mats for double or some 5x the price.
But you are right about supply and demand. Bots supply high quantities and keep prices fair. Without them everyone would sell stack of ancestor silk for 10k. That's just greedy.1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »
They dont make farming worthless. They just prevent greedy farmers jacking up prices.
There is no such thing as a greedy farmer. The market revolves around supply and demand.
Lmao. Go to any trader and see for yourself. Alot of ppl try to sell stack of mats for double or some 5x the price.
But you are right about supply and demand. Bots supply high quantities and keep prices fair. Without them everyone would sell stack of ancestor silk for 10k. That's just greedy.
You don't understand how supply and demand work. If a price is too high, people don't pay it. If there are no other suppliers, then it's a fair price.
You could always farm the items yourself, too.
Bots are the ones who exert unfair pressures on the market. They devalue the efforts of actual players.Edited by MLGProPlayer on December 16, 2019 10:06AM12 -
SickleCider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »
They dont make farming worthless. They just prevent greedy farmers jacking up prices.
There is no such thing as a greedy farmer. The market revolves around supply and demand.
Lmao. Go to any trader and see for yourself. Alot of ppl try to sell stack of mats for double or some 5x the price.
But you are right about supply and demand. Bots supply high quantities and keep prices fair. Without them everyone would sell stack of ancestor silk for 10k. That's just greedy.
I think it's fair compensation for the amount of time I spend farming it so you don't have to. If you don't think it takes a long time to do, I invite you to go farm the materials yourself.✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨10 -
Hallothiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I loathe the damn things & always try & report them (tho the system in game on the PS4 is terrible). Would like to send screenshot direct to Zos but when tick button to do so, no choice comes up.
If I have some time spare, I will occasionally follow one & get the node before they do. Minor act, but its about all one can do.
And it would be incredibly easy to quickly ban the bots. PSN name is always random string of letters, character name always 2 random words joined together by a ‘_’.1 -
redlink1979✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Versispellis wrote: »I don't know if it's the same on EU, but it's gotten outrageously out of hand on NA.
@Versispellis Buddy, it's also outrageous on EU.
I keep reporting bots in the SAME areas and on the SAME spots, over and over again...
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert Players would REALLY appreciate that some sort of action would be taken.Edited by redlink1979 on December 16, 2019 1:03PM"Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"- Sons of the Night Mother | VforVendetta | Grownups Gaming EU | English Elders [PS][EU] 2500 CP
- Daggerfall's Mightiest | Eternal Champions | Legacy | Tamriel Melting Pot [PS][NA] 2300 CP
- SweetTrolls | Spring Rose | Daggerfall Royal Legion | Tinnitus Delux [PC][EU] 2525 CP
- Bacon Rats | Silverlight Brotherhood | Canis Root Tea Party | Vincula Doloris [PC][NA] 2300 CP
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Ri_Khan✭✭✭✭✭
✭Contaminate wrote: »ZOS doesn't care enough to hire any GMs to deal with bots like they used to, and ZOS uses the presence of bot accounts to boost their player stats so... I wouldn't expect anything
It probably also boosts the gold/crown exchanges taking place as well.2 -
SickleCider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭redlink1979 wrote: »Versispellis wrote: »I don't know if it's the same on EU, but it's gotten outrageously out of hand on NA.
@Versispellis Buddy, it's also outrageous on EU. [. . .]
@redlink1979
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfKdNxIOcQ
:D
✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨2 -
SickleCider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WilliamESO wrote: »Guys it's a waste of time to farm mats
Eh, it depends. You can still make some gold selling platings and tempers.✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Versispellis wrote: »WilliamESO wrote: »Guys it's a waste of time to farm mats
Eh, it depends. You can still make some gold selling platings and tempers.
You can still reliably make 50-60k gold per hour if you've got a clear route, which isn't the worst method of making gold (even more on consoles where mats are often 2-3x their price on PC, although there are no farming add-ons to help you optimize routes). That number was much higher in years past though.Edited by MLGProPlayer on December 16, 2019 11:57AM2 -
SickleCider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Versispellis wrote: »WilliamESO wrote: »Guys it's a waste of time to farm mats
Eh, it depends. You can still make some gold selling platings and tempers.
You can still reliably make 50-60k gold per hour if you've got a clear route, which isn't the worst method of making gold (even more on consoles where mats are often 2-3x their price on PC, although there are no farming add-ons to help you optimize routes). That number was much higher in years past though.
I'm just taking a wild guess, but I would assume it's because we don't have those addons that we make a tidier living at it. It's a little more difficult, less saturation in the stores, etc.✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Versispellis wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Versispellis wrote: »WilliamESO wrote: »Guys it's a waste of time to farm mats
Eh, it depends. You can still make some gold selling platings and tempers.
You can still reliably make 50-60k gold per hour if you've got a clear route, which isn't the worst method of making gold (even more on consoles where mats are often 2-3x their price on PC, although there are no farming add-ons to help you optimize routes). That number was much higher in years past though.
I'm just taking a wild guess, but I would assume it's because we don't have those addons that we make a tidier living at it. It's a little more difficult, less saturation in the stores, etc.
For sure. The price check add-ons and TTC definitely help depress prices on PC.
We also have more bots by virtue of how easy it is to hack on a PC. Tons of players run scripts on their main accounts (they just leave their character at a node while they sleep/go to work and it automatically collects); this is in addition to the dedicated botters running throwaway accounts.Edited by MLGProPlayer on December 16, 2019 12:05PM2 -
SickleCider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Versispellis wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Versispellis wrote: »WilliamESO wrote: »Guys it's a waste of time to farm mats
Eh, it depends. You can still make some gold selling platings and tempers.
You can still reliably make 50-60k gold per hour if you've got a clear route, which isn't the worst method of making gold (even more on consoles where mats are often 2-3x their price on PC, although there are no farming add-ons to help you optimize routes). That number was much higher in years past though.
I'm just taking a wild guess, but I would assume it's because we don't have those addons that we make a tidier living at it. It's a little more difficult, less saturation in the stores, etc.
For sure. The price check add-ons and TTC definitely help depress prices on PC.
We also have more bots by virtue of how easy it is to hack on a PC. Tons of players run scripts on their main accounts (they just leave their character at a node while they sleep/go to work and it automatically collects); this is in addition to the dedicated botters running throwaway accounts.
That all sounds absolutely awful!✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨2 -
MEBengalsFan2001✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »
They dont make farming worthless. They just prevent greedy farmers jacking up prices.
There is no such thing as a greedy farmer. The market revolves around supply and demand.
Lmao. Go to any trader and see for yourself. Alot of ppl try to sell stack of mats for double or some 5x the price.
But you are right about supply and demand. Bots supply high quantities and keep prices fair. Without them everyone would sell stack of ancestor silk for 10k. That's just greedy.
You don't understand how supply and demand work. If a price is too high, people don't pay it. If there are no other suppliers, then it's a fair price.
You could always farm the items yourself, too.
Bots are the ones who exert unfair pressures on the market. They devalue the efforts of actual players.
How? As someone who doesn't like farming for mats how does it devalue my experience? It doesn't. Maybe for players who farm mats to sell, yes it may devalues their experience but the reality is this is a game and all items in the game have zero value because they are digital and all of it could be gone tomorrow.
Botters IMO are fine as long as they don't ruin the core of the game.
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Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As far as a solution, at least to lower the number of bots, Sony and/or zos would need to make it harder to create alt accounts on PlayStation. Over here on xb1 we have bots, but not near as many as PS simply because it's not free to create multiple accounts for one copy of the game."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard1 -
Ohtimbar✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's not a bug it's a feature. How many active players do we have now? 25 million? They never said human players.forever stuck in combat4 -
lagrue✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »
They dont make farming worthless. They just prevent greedy farmers jacking up prices.
There is no such thing as a greedy farmer. The market revolves around supply and demand.
Lmao. Go to any trader and see for yourself. Alot of ppl try to sell stack of mats for double or some 5x the price.
But you are right about supply and demand. Bots supply high quantities and keep prices fair. Without them everyone would sell stack of ancestor silk for 10k. That's just greedy.
You don't understand how supply and demand work. If a price is too high, people don't pay it. If there are no other suppliers, then it's a fair price.
You could always farm the items yourself, too.
Bots are the ones who exert unfair pressures on the market. They devalue the efforts of actual players.
Well people don't pay it. That's why those stacks sit there for 30 days and expire.
Praise the bots because I've been enjoying cheap mats like never before lately. Saves me time I would have otherwise been wasting farming. Though that's not directly their service, they're just in it to sell the gold at the end, and I have no part in that.
The last 3 months have been some of my best in ESO as I know longer have to *** around constantly restoring my materials. I can actually focus on real content.Edited by lagrue on December 16, 2019 10:14PM"You must defeat me every time. I need defeat you only once"0 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's not much better on xbox, though I haven't been to the worst zones recently. It is really disruptive for questing/immersion. Had there been bots like this when I started playing I'd have quit the game. No question about it. It ruins my experience as it is when I do storytelling in those zones, but to have that ruination bey my first experience of the game? Yeah, no.
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SickleCider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's not much better on xbox, though I haven't been to the worst zones recently. It is really disruptive for questing/immersion. Had there been bots like this when I started playing I'd have quit the game. No question about it. It ruins my experience as it is when I do storytelling in those zones, but to have that ruination bey my first experience of the game? Yeah, no.
This has been my thought lately, too. I've been thinking back on how magical Bleakrock seemed when I first started, and it's sad to see what it's become. Not many people are introduced to the game anymore via the base starter zones, on account of all the editions of the game that are available now, but there are still some. I can't imagine how they must be feeling.✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨1 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Versispellis wrote: »It's not much better on xbox, though I haven't been to the worst zones recently. It is really disruptive for questing/immersion. Had there been bots like this when I started playing I'd have quit the game. No question about it. It ruins my experience as it is when I do storytelling in those zones, but to have that ruination bey my first experience of the game? Yeah, no.
This has been my thought lately, too. I've been thinking back on how magical Bleakrock seemed when I first started, and it's sad to see what it's become. Not many people are introduced to the game anymore via the base starter zones, on account of all the editions of the game that are available now, but there are still some. I can't imagine how they must be feeling.
It might be more folks than we think.
On xbox, ESO is essentially free to play via Games Pass. Anyone who was paying any attention at all to the promotions for Games Pass bought it - the deals were just that good and complete no-brainers. Players trying the game through Games Pass don't have any of the DLCs/Chapters so they start in the first zone of their alliance and might travel to the starter islands relatively early in their experience.
It wouldn't be that hard to control bots in this game. The developers choose not to, which is... well, I'm not sure what that says about them.0 -
SickleCider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Versispellis wrote: »It's not much better on xbox, though I haven't been to the worst zones recently. It is really disruptive for questing/immersion. Had there been bots like this when I started playing I'd have quit the game. No question about it. It ruins my experience as it is when I do storytelling in those zones, but to have that ruination bey my first experience of the game? Yeah, no.
This has been my thought lately, too. I've been thinking back on how magical Bleakrock seemed when I first started, and it's sad to see what it's become. Not many people are introduced to the game anymore via the base starter zones, on account of all the editions of the game that are available now, but there are still some. I can't imagine how they must be feeling.
It might be more folks than we think.
On xbox, ESO is essentially free to play via Games Pass. Anyone who was paying any attention at all to the promotions for Games Pass bought it - the deals were just that good and complete no-brainers. Players trying the game through Games Pass don't have any of the DLCs/Chapters so they start in the first zone of their alliance and might travel to the starter islands relatively early in their experience.
It wouldn't be that hard to control bots in this game. The developers choose not to, which is... well, I'm not sure what that says about them.
Ah, yes, I see. Good point. I wasn't thinking about all the different kinds of promotions there have been.
I can only speculate about the ease or difficulty of eliminating the bots on various platforms, and that's really it: I can only speculate, because there hasn't been any communication on the matter. Is it difficult, or are they being willfully blithe? I can only speculate! I want to give the benefit of the doubt, but it's leaving a very sour taste in my mouth.✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨0 -
nafensoriel✭✭✭✭✭Versispellis wrote: »It's not much better on xbox, though I haven't been to the worst zones recently. It is really disruptive for questing/immersion. Had there been bots like this when I started playing I'd have quit the game. No question about it. It ruins my experience as it is when I do storytelling in those zones, but to have that ruination bey my first experience of the game? Yeah, no.
This has been my thought lately, too. I've been thinking back on how magical Bleakrock seemed when I first started, and it's sad to see what it's become. Not many people are introduced to the game anymore via the base starter zones, on account of all the editions of the game that are available now, but there are still some. I can't imagine how they must be feeling.
It might be more folks than we think.
On xbox, ESO is essentially free to play via Games Pass. Anyone who was paying any attention at all to the promotions for Games Pass bought it - the deals were just that good and complete no-brainers. Players trying the game through Games Pass don't have any of the DLCs/Chapters so they start in the first zone of their alliance and might travel to the starter islands relatively early in their experience.
It wouldn't be that hard to control bots in this game. The developers choose not to, which is... well, I'm not sure what that says about them.
It wouldn't be hard eh?
It wouldn't be hard to control bots in a monolithically large program with huge amounts of complexity being sent across a mostly unsecured internet to completely unsecure end-user PCs being controlled by peripherals that are not monitored or tracked.
It wouldn't be hard to counter an effective legion of programmers trying to make a buck in foreign countries that have no legal wish to even attempt to stop them?
Totally not hard at all.
You should start a security company. You'd make trillions if you find it so easy.
The reality is you limit bots. You can never remove them.
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BNOC✭✭✭✭✭nafensoriel wrote: »Versispellis wrote: »It's not much better on xbox, though I haven't been to the worst zones recently. It is really disruptive for questing/immersion. Had there been bots like this when I started playing I'd have quit the game. No question about it. It ruins my experience as it is when I do storytelling in those zones, but to have that ruination bey my first experience of the game? Yeah, no.
This has been my thought lately, too. I've been thinking back on how magical Bleakrock seemed when I first started, and it's sad to see what it's become. Not many people are introduced to the game anymore via the base starter zones, on account of all the editions of the game that are available now, but there are still some. I can't imagine how they must be feeling.
It might be more folks than we think.
On xbox, ESO is essentially free to play via Games Pass. Anyone who was paying any attention at all to the promotions for Games Pass bought it - the deals were just that good and complete no-brainers. Players trying the game through Games Pass don't have any of the DLCs/Chapters so they start in the first zone of their alliance and might travel to the starter islands relatively early in their experience.
It wouldn't be that hard to control bots in this game. The developers choose not to, which is... well, I'm not sure what that says about them.
It wouldn't be hard eh?
It wouldn't be hard to control bots in a monolithically large program with huge amounts of complexity being sent across a mostly unsecured internet to completely unsecure end-user PCs being controlled by peripherals that are not monitored or tracked.
It wouldn't be hard to counter an effective legion of programmers trying to make a buck in foreign countries that have no legal wish to even attempt to stop them?
Totally not hard at all.
You should start a security company. You'd make trillions if you find it so easy.
The reality is you limit bots. You can never remove them.
He said it wouldn't be hard to control, which it wouldn't.
They could put a simple requirement in that needs to be attained before you can collect (sellable) raw nodes:- A minimum level to collect nodes - Slows them down a lot and adds extra work to level safely.
- Disable rendering if you're <= level 30 - I see different nodes than you if I'm BS10 and you're BS1 for example, just don't render at all if they're not high enough
- Same thing as above, based on your crafting levels
- Remove collection until level 50 and just add sets of the mats (enough for a set or 2) in the same rewards you get as you level now.
- Lower their crown prices to be more comparative and competitive to botters prices - Bots aren't that big of an issue, clearly.
- etc;
They aren't all fool proof, but you see how easy it is to chop that number down massively - Especially on console where the bots are dumb as hell and simply realign against colliders on terrain, wait 10 seconds before each move and just spam click an area for set periods of time (when the node should exist) before moving on. PC may not be sorted by simple changes, but console bots that are prehistoric in ability would be smoke.vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)0 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nafensoriel wrote: »Versispellis wrote: »It's not much better on xbox, though I haven't been to the worst zones recently. It is really disruptive for questing/immersion. Had there been bots like this when I started playing I'd have quit the game. No question about it. It ruins my experience as it is when I do storytelling in those zones, but to have that ruination bey my first experience of the game? Yeah, no.
This has been my thought lately, too. I've been thinking back on how magical Bleakrock seemed when I first started, and it's sad to see what it's become. Not many people are introduced to the game anymore via the base starter zones, on account of all the editions of the game that are available now, but there are still some. I can't imagine how they must be feeling.
It might be more folks than we think.
On xbox, ESO is essentially free to play via Games Pass. Anyone who was paying any attention at all to the promotions for Games Pass bought it - the deals were just that good and complete no-brainers. Players trying the game through Games Pass don't have any of the DLCs/Chapters so they start in the first zone of their alliance and might travel to the starter islands relatively early in their experience.
It wouldn't be that hard to control bots in this game. The developers choose not to, which is... well, I'm not sure what that says about them.
It wouldn't be hard eh?
It wouldn't be hard to control bots in a monolithically large program with huge amounts of complexity being sent across a mostly unsecured internet to completely unsecure end-user PCs being controlled by peripherals that are not monitored or tracked.
It wouldn't be hard to counter an effective legion of programmers trying to make a buck in foreign countries that have no legal wish to even attempt to stop them?
Totally not hard at all.
You should start a security company. You'd make trillions if you find it so easy.
The reality is you limit bots. You can never remove them.
He said it wouldn't be hard to control, which it wouldn't.
They could put a simple requirement in that needs to be attained before you can collect (sellable) raw nodes:- A minimum level to collect nodes - Slows them down a lot and adds extra work to level safely.
- Disable rendering if you're <= level 30 - I see different nodes than you if I'm BS10 and you're BS1 for example, just don't render at all if they're not high enough
- Same thing as above, based on your crafting levels
- Remove collection until level 50 and just add sets of the mats (enough for a set or 2) in the same rewards you get as you level now.
- Lower their crown prices to be more comparative and competitive to botters prices - Bots aren't that big of an issue, clearly.
- etc;
They aren't all fool proof, but you see how easy it is to chop that number down massively - Especially on console where the bots are dumb as hell and simply realign against colliders on terrain, wait 10 seconds before each move and just spam click an area for set periods of time (when the node should exist) before moving on. PC may not be sorted by simple changes, but console bots that are prehistoric in ability would be smoke.
I wasn't necessarily thinking of these things, but those are possibilities too. There are two things that come to mind that the publisher/developer could do if they really cared about the botting problem.
For the first, the developers could make the game masters more than a loading screen myth. I have no doubt that this company makes more than enough profit to hire permanent staff and/or interns to serve as game masters across all platforms. Not only could they be empowered with tools to flag and disable botting accounts immediately, they could also truly bring the "live service" into this game by hosting impromptu community events and activities. My first experience with MMOs were MUDs - text-based games where there were active game masters who really served the RPG role of game master. It was amazing. This game could do something like that and also utilize these people to help kill botting.
The second relates to a larger issue when it comes to game development as a whole. Put simply, botting of resources exists in this game because obtaining and refining resources is an unnecessarily tedious and grindy process. Grinds like this are bad game design, but are inserted into games like ESO because it is good monetization design. Grinds are intended to addict players to the game, and addicts are much more likely to be exposed to and utilize their cash shop racket. A major reason why I despise predatory microtransactions is that they are used to excuse bad game design. If resource gathering was not a badly designed and tedious grindfest, the incentive to automate the process would largely vanish.1