Lord-Otto wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

albertberku wrote: »

Well, it is what it is. I play magsorc more than any other class but i also play other classes. I wouldnt go make a thread about unblockable streak stun myself, it is not big of a deal but it is true that unblockable streak stun isnt the right direction for the pvp. It is not a killer ability but it does not have any counter play. You just cant l2p against streak. Any other stun in the game, you can l2p against. That is the difference. Make it blockable again, then it is fair game for streak. Dont need to list every stun in the game and make a huge list with pros and cons, just go out there with any toon other than magsorc and see it for yourself. And right now, there are 3 other good stuns in the game, anyway: templar, dk ult, fossilize. First two you can just block and last one you keep distance, that is the counter play. And btw, i would argue to make vampire stun 7m, as well. 12m is too good of a distance for that stun. But again, they are not breaking pvp, anyway. Just minor issues.

This 100%. Everything should have a counter play.

Break free and block is your counter play. Unlike Fear and Fossilize, Streak doesn't guarantee a true combo. The following Frag is 100% mitigatable.

Jeremy wrote: »

markusloveFTM wrote: »

I just feel like the stun from steak is overkill; I wouldn't mind it if it maybe applied minor maim (15% damage done debuff) or something to the enemy, but a stun? For a mobility tool? Seems a bit OP.

I mean, they already have their crystal fragments for a stun.

Sorry for the small post, I didn't know what else to say.

It is incredibly annoying, so I"m with you.

I wish they would just remove stuns from PvP period. This game's PvP would be more fun without them. That or just bring back the old unstoppable ability which gave players an effective way to counter it.

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Sorry, what? Streak stun is unblockable already 2 patches. And Fossilize unlike Streak doesn't provide gap closer/escape tool, have lesser range, larger cost and is not aoe. Fossilize is powerful yes, but i'll trade it for Streak any day. (as stamDK main)

And then ud complain about sorcs guaranteed one shots on people like with old rune cage. Lmao.

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Sorry, what? Streak stun is unblockable already 2 patches. And Fossilize unlike Streak doesn't provide gap closer/escape tool, have lesser range, larger cost and is not aoe. Fossilize is powerful yes, but i'll trade it for Streak any day. (as stamDK main)

And then ud complain about sorcs guaranteed one shots on people like with old rune cage. Lmao.

What's the difference between timing meteor, curse with streak into frags (+mages fury as an option) vs doing the same with fossilize? Difference is only in terms that using streak requires skill, while fossilize works always if target is not cc-immune.
I'm not saying that streak stun itself is something unbearable, problem is that it grants gap closer/escape tool too. Basically 3 abilities in 1. Of course it's nice to have such abilities, but problem is that DK was nerfed to the point that class doesn't have any such "universal" ability at all. Yes, we have leap, but that is ultimate.
I understand that DK is sort of counter to magsorc (and magblade) with fossilize draining stamina and wings negating burst, but all that doesn't work against other classes so good.

Night and day difference actually. With streak, you have to wait for the animation to end and turn around before following up giving time to ur opponent to cc break. Best case scenario you maybe get 1 hit at ur opponent before cc breaking which is also why the streak combo is only really effective with meteor since meteor is a backloaded ult. With any other ult its kinda iffy to use streak cause you simply wont have enough time to follow up with ur burst.

There is a reason why with old rune cage there was an outrage demanding the skill to be butchered while with streak there isnt much of a hassle outside the usual threads. That is because their practical application isnt even remotely the same.

So again, wanna trade fossilize with streak. Just know that you will be bringing old rune cage meta back and you will be back here asking fossilize to be butchered cause you will literally have zero counterplay to sorc burst and asking for streak to be buffed cause the stun is not reliable offensively. Not saying fossilize as an ability is better than streak. Its not, but in terms of reliable offensive cc, its not even a contest. Fossilize is simply better.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Sorry, what? Streak stun is unblockable already 2 patches. And Fossilize unlike Streak doesn't provide gap closer/escape tool, have lesser range, larger cost and is not aoe. Fossilize is powerful yes, but i'll trade it for Streak any day. (as stamDK main)

And then ud complain about sorcs guaranteed one shots on people like with old rune cage. Lmao.

What's the difference between timing meteor, curse with streak into frags (+mages fury as an option) vs doing the same with fossilize? Difference is only in terms that using streak requires skill, while fossilize works always if target is not cc-immune.
I'm not saying that streak stun itself is something unbearable, problem is that it grants gap closer/escape tool too. Basically 3 abilities in 1. Of course it's nice to have such abilities, but problem is that DK was nerfed to the point that class doesn't have any such "universal" ability at all. Yes, we have leap, but that is ultimate.
I understand that DK is sort of counter to magsorc (and magblade) with fossilize draining stamina and wings negating burst, but all that doesn't work against other classes so good.

Night and day difference actually. With streak, you have to wait for the animation to end and turn around before following up giving time to ur opponent to cc break. Best case scenario you maybe get 1 hit at ur opponent before cc breaking which is also why the streak combo is only really effective with meteor since meteor is a backloaded ult. With any other ult its kinda iffy to use streak cause you simply wont have enough time to follow up with ur burst.

There is a reason why with old rune cage there was an outrage demanding the skill to be butchered while with streak there isnt much of a hassle outside the usual threads. That is because their practical application isnt even remotely the same.

So again, wanna trade fossilize with streak. Just know that you will be bringing old rune cage meta back and you will be back here asking fossilize to be butchered cause you will literally have zero counterplay to sorc burst and asking for streak to be buffed cause the stun is not reliable offensively. Not saying fossilize as an ability is better than streak. Its not, but in terms of reliable offensive cc, its not even a contest. Fossilize is simply better.

But there is already fossilize alternative available to everyone - turn evil, which is btw harder cc then fossilize, in terms of break free. Yeah, it is rather costly for magicka builds but if it guaranteed successful burst against balanced builds, I'm sure magsorcs would use it. But obviously no magsorc use it, why? Altmer or dunmer could afford it. They don't use it because it requires coming into close melee range first and there is simply no place on magsorc bars both for gap closer and hard-cc. Thus, streak is perfect ability because it's both gap closer and unblockable cc (and kite tool as well). Key point here is that streak requires skill to use and it is not so easy to land against agile opponent.. which sort of balances it out.
But if you are playing not very agile build, streak is like a can-opener against you and it is more deadly on stamsorcs too.

Overall, I'll be ok with streak if ZOS buffed empowering chains. Those are really in pitiful state in comparison to other gap closers and given that it is gap closer of most melee oriented class... it is weird that melee class has worst gap closer in the game (well, worst after "flying blade").

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Sorry, what? Streak stun is unblockable already 2 patches. And Fossilize unlike Streak doesn't provide gap closer/escape tool, have lesser range, larger cost and is not aoe. Fossilize is powerful yes, but i'll trade it for Streak any day. (as stamDK main)

And then ud complain about sorcs guaranteed one shots on people like with old rune cage. Lmao.

What's the difference between timing meteor, curse with streak into frags (+mages fury as an option) vs doing the same with fossilize? Difference is only in terms that using streak requires skill, while fossilize works always if target is not cc-immune.
I'm not saying that streak stun itself is something unbearable, problem is that it grants gap closer/escape tool too. Basically 3 abilities in 1. Of course it's nice to have such abilities, but problem is that DK was nerfed to the point that class doesn't have any such "universal" ability at all. Yes, we have leap, but that is ultimate.
I understand that DK is sort of counter to magsorc (and magblade) with fossilize draining stamina and wings negating burst, but all that doesn't work against other classes so good.

Night and day difference actually. With streak, you have to wait for the animation to end and turn around before following up giving time to ur opponent to cc break. Best case scenario you maybe get 1 hit at ur opponent before cc breaking which is also why the streak combo is only really effective with meteor since meteor is a backloaded ult. With any other ult its kinda iffy to use streak cause you simply wont have enough time to follow up with ur burst.

There is a reason why with old rune cage there was an outrage demanding the skill to be butchered while with streak there isnt much of a hassle outside the usual threads. That is because their practical application isnt even remotely the same.

So again, wanna trade fossilize with streak. Just know that you will be bringing old rune cage meta back and you will be back here asking fossilize to be butchered cause you will literally have zero counterplay to sorc burst and asking for streak to be buffed cause the stun is not reliable offensively. Not saying fossilize as an ability is better than streak. Its not, but in terms of reliable offensive cc, its not even a contest. Fossilize is simply better.

But there is already fossilize alternative available to everyone - turn evil, which is btw harder cc then fossilize, in terms of break free. Yeah, it is rather costly for magicka builds but if it guaranteed successful burst against balanced builds, I'm sure magsorcs would use it. But obviously no magsorc use it, why? Altmer or dunmer could afford it. They don't use it because it requires coming into close melee range first and there is simply no place on magsorc bars both for gap closer and hard-cc. Thus, streak is perfect ability because it's both gap closer and unblockable cc (and kite tool as well). Key point here is that streak requires skill to use and it is not so easy to land against agile opponent.. which sort of balances it out.
But if you are playing not very agile build, streak is like a can-opener against you and it is more deadly on stamsorcs too.

Overall, I'll be ok with streak if ZOS buffed empowering chains. Those are really in pitiful state in comparison to other gap closers and given that it is gap closer of most melee oriented class... it is weird that melee class has worst gap closer in the game (well, worst after "flying blade").

Turn Undead is more of an argument FOR Streak stun, because all stam builds get an undodgable, unblockable stun. Magblades get Fear, mag DKs get Fossilize. So why should sorcs get the short stick here? Because they're sorcs?
You can't use Turn Undead on magsorc because you can't sustain the stamina cost every seven seconds.

last time I checked turn undead or fossilize did not move you forward. As for all your ''but you can break free in time'' argument, that applies to pretty much all CC in the game, and if you time it right you pretty much have curse-meteor-streak-execute hitting all at the same time.

Difference with a Dk using fossilize into meteor is that you can actually see the DK literally coming towards you, or see the meteor and streak away from fossilize range, and even if the DK follows up with a leap you can block it. Fossilize does not move you forward, it has basically melee range, you on the other hand have 28m range to work with, do not compare melee abilities on a melee class to a gapcloser+AoE stun, on a ranged character, that is not fair.

turn undead on the other hand while being an AoE unblockable stun similar to streak, is not a gapcloser, and its ground based with very tiny radius meaning you can literally outrun it.

One would think such difference would be obvious to anyone with eyes but I keep forgetting this forum is a natural habitat for hypocrisy and bias.

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Sorry, what? Streak stun is unblockable already 2 patches. And Fossilize unlike Streak doesn't provide gap closer/escape tool, have lesser range, larger cost and is not aoe. Fossilize is powerful yes, but i'll trade it for Streak any day. (as stamDK main)

And then ud complain about sorcs guaranteed one shots on people like with old rune cage. Lmao.

What's the difference between timing meteor, curse with streak into frags (+mages fury as an option) vs doing the same with fossilize? Difference is only in terms that using streak requires skill, while fossilize works always if target is not cc-immune.
I'm not saying that streak stun itself is something unbearable, problem is that it grants gap closer/escape tool too. Basically 3 abilities in 1. Of course it's nice to have such abilities, but problem is that DK was nerfed to the point that class doesn't have any such "universal" ability at all. Yes, we have leap, but that is ultimate.
I understand that DK is sort of counter to magsorc (and magblade) with fossilize draining stamina and wings negating burst, but all that doesn't work against other classes so good.

Night and day difference actually. With streak, you have to wait for the animation to end and turn around before following up giving time to ur opponent to cc break. Best case scenario you maybe get 1 hit at ur opponent before cc breaking which is also why the streak combo is only really effective with meteor since meteor is a backloaded ult. With any other ult its kinda iffy to use streak cause you simply wont have enough time to follow up with ur burst.

There is a reason why with old rune cage there was an outrage demanding the skill to be butchered while with streak there isnt much of a hassle outside the usual threads. That is because their practical application isnt even remotely the same.

So again, wanna trade fossilize with streak. Just know that you will be bringing old rune cage meta back and you will be back here asking fossilize to be butchered cause you will literally have zero counterplay to sorc burst and asking for streak to be buffed cause the stun is not reliable offensively. Not saying fossilize as an ability is better than streak. Its not, but in terms of reliable offensive cc, its not even a contest. Fossilize is simply better.

But there is already fossilize alternative available to everyone - turn evil, which is btw harder cc then fossilize, in terms of break free. Yeah, it is rather costly for magicka builds but if it guaranteed successful burst against balanced builds, I'm sure magsorcs would use it. But obviously no magsorc use it, why? Altmer or dunmer could afford it. They don't use it because it requires coming into close melee range first and there is simply no place on magsorc bars both for gap closer and hard-cc. Thus, streak is perfect ability because it's both gap closer and unblockable cc (and kite tool as well). Key point here is that streak requires skill to use and it is not so easy to land against agile opponent.. which sort of balances it out.
But if you are playing not very agile build, streak is like a can-opener against you and it is more deadly on stamsorcs too.

Overall, I'll be ok with streak if ZOS buffed empowering chains. Those are really in pitiful state in comparison to other gap closers and given that it is gap closer of most melee oriented class... it is weird that melee class has worst gap closer in the game (well, worst after "flying blade").

The argument is about the reliability of a cc and bringing turn evil into the discussion literally proves my point. Just because ability A and ability B are both undodgeable and unblockable it doesn't mean that their practical application is the same. Turn evil is not good because it costs a third of ur Stam and requires u to be on top of ur opponent which makes it unreliable even tho it can't be blocked and dodged. Same with Streak, it can't be blocked or dodged but it's practical application as an offensive cc is very different compared to fossilize or old rune cage because you have to wait the animation to end and turn around before following up with ur burst.

Ita common sense really. There was an outrage with old rune cage. Undodgeable unblockable and dealt damage. Same with Streak with the added benefit that u don't have to sacrifice an ability to run it since it was already on ur bar. So logic says that that there should be an even bigger outrage with sorcs and their guaranteed burst with no counters with butcher Streak threads popping left right and center. And yet there isn't. Well that is because its practical application is not even close to old rune cage since the ability has restrictions built in the ability itself when u look at it from a cc perspective.

Iskiab wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Sorry, what? Streak stun is unblockable already 2 patches. And Fossilize unlike Streak doesn't provide gap closer/escape tool, have lesser range, larger cost and is not aoe. Fossilize is powerful yes, but i'll trade it for Streak any day. (as stamDK main)

And then ud complain about sorcs guaranteed one shots on people like with old rune cage. Lmao.

What's the difference between timing meteor, curse with streak into frags (+mages fury as an option) vs doing the same with fossilize? Difference is only in terms that using streak requires skill, while fossilize works always if target is not cc-immune.
I'm not saying that streak stun itself is something unbearable, problem is that it grants gap closer/escape tool too. Basically 3 abilities in 1. Of course it's nice to have such abilities, but problem is that DK was nerfed to the point that class doesn't have any such "universal" ability at all. Yes, we have leap, but that is ultimate.
I understand that DK is sort of counter to magsorc (and magblade) with fossilize draining stamina and wings negating burst, but all that doesn't work against other classes so good.

Night and day difference actually. With streak, you have to wait for the animation to end and turn around before following up giving time to ur opponent to cc break. Best case scenario you maybe get 1 hit at ur opponent before cc breaking which is also why the streak combo is only really effective with meteor since meteor is a backloaded ult. With any other ult its kinda iffy to use streak cause you simply wont have enough time to follow up with ur burst.

There is a reason why with old rune cage there was an outrage demanding the skill to be butchered while with streak there isnt much of a hassle outside the usual threads. That is because their practical application isnt even remotely the same.

So again, wanna trade fossilize with streak. Just know that you will be bringing old rune cage meta back and you will be back here asking fossilize to be butchered cause you will literally have zero counterplay to sorc burst and asking for streak to be buffed cause the stun is not reliable offensively. Not saying fossilize as an ability is better than streak. Its not, but in terms of reliable offensive cc, its not even a contest. Fossilize is simply better.

But there is already fossilize alternative available to everyone - turn evil, which is btw harder cc then fossilize, in terms of break free. Yeah, it is rather costly for magicka builds but if it guaranteed successful burst against balanced builds, I'm sure magsorcs would use it. But obviously no magsorc use it, why? Altmer or dunmer could afford it. They don't use it because it requires coming into close melee range first and there is simply no place on magsorc bars both for gap closer and hard-cc. Thus, streak is perfect ability because it's both gap closer and unblockable cc (and kite tool as well). Key point here is that streak requires skill to use and it is not so easy to land against agile opponent.. which sort of balances it out.
But if you are playing not very agile build, streak is like a can-opener against you and it is more deadly on stamsorcs too.

Overall, I'll be ok with streak if ZOS buffed empowering chains. Those are really in pitiful state in comparison to other gap closers and given that it is gap closer of most melee oriented class... it is weird that melee class has worst gap closer in the game (well, worst after "flying blade").

The argument is about the reliability of a cc and bringing turn evil into the discussion literally proves my point. Just because ability A and ability B are both undodgeable and unblockable it doesn't mean that their practical application is the same. Turn evil is not good because it costs a third of ur Stam and requires u to be on top of ur opponent which makes it unreliable even tho it can't be blocked and dodged. Same with Streak, it can't be blocked or dodged but it's practical application as an offensive cc is very different compared to fossilize or old rune cage because you have to wait the animation to end and turn around before following up with ur burst.

Ita common sense really. There was an outrage with old rune cage. Undodgeable unblockable and dealt damage. Same with Streak with the added benefit that u don't have to sacrifice an ability to run it since it was already on ur bar. So logic says that that there should be an even bigger outrage with sorcs and their guaranteed burst with no counters with butcher Streak threads popping left right and center. And yet there isn't. Well that is because its practical application is not even close to old rune cage since the ability has restrictions built in the ability itself when u look at it from a cc perspective.

Yes, and also because sorcs received ton of indirect nerfs (clench, soul assault, pirate skeleton and so on) and now sorc though still powerful but not most powerful class anymore. If ZOS instead of buffing underperforming abilities will just nerf jabs to the ground, next patch there will be new favorite "nerf item" and it might be Streak. So in our all interest is to convince ZOS to stop nerfing and instead provide viable means to counter play powerful combos.
We definitely don't need more defense or protections, we need more multi-function abilities (like Streak) which will left some space on bars to slot more damaging abilities.

I don’t think jabs is an issue. I’m noticing more sorcs all the time not Templars.

I swear half the people in BGs these days are sorcs. If you look at the leaderboard I think half those names are sorcs too.