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Difficulty bound to amount of players, e.g. dragons (suggestion)
markulrich1966
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Hi,
we had threads before discussing the "Dragons 2.0", and like many others, I appreciate the increased variety in their behaviour, as well as the higher difficulty.
However, there is a backside.
I play on XBOX, EU and NA.
While NA still is populated enough to fight the dragons especially in southern Elsweyr, EU gets in severe trouble.
I wanted to to the daily Tideholm (kill 3 dragons) tonight at 0:30 am, and gave up after the first dragon. I needed 6 or 7 soulgems to revive, despite CP1049, heavy armor templar. There were maybe 5 other players around.
This is a big difference to the event that just ended, when I could survive these fights without dying.
The problem resembles a bit another issue, I farm Culanda Laquer in Summerset. Before Elsweyr, I did daily delves and Worldbosses, as there always could be other players found to fight the bosses together. Since Elsweyr, it has become very difficult to find co-players, so I usually skip the bosses meanwhile.
A solution could be to change the behaviour of bosses or dragons, to adapt their difficulty to the amount of players around. Even if it could not be realized very precisely, at least a rough setting would be good, like 3 difficulty settings. Easy for 1 player, medium for 2-3, difficult for more (bosses).
For dragons it might be like easy for 1-4 players, medium for 4-9 players, difficult for more.
The problem without such an option is that people get quickly discouraged and leave these quests completely, so that summerset sometimes feels completely deserted except for some daily writ crafters and beginner questers.
Edited by markulrich1966 on December 11, 2019 9:42AM we had threads before discussing the "Dragons 2.0", and like many others, I appreciate the increased variety in their behaviour, as well as the higher difficulty.
However, there is a backside.
I play on XBOX, EU and NA.
While NA still is populated enough to fight the dragons especially in southern Elsweyr, EU gets in severe trouble.
I wanted to to the daily Tideholm (kill 3 dragons) tonight at 0:30 am, and gave up after the first dragon. I needed 6 or 7 soulgems to revive, despite CP1049, heavy armor templar. There were maybe 5 other players around.
This is a big difference to the event that just ended, when I could survive these fights without dying.
The problem resembles a bit another issue, I farm Culanda Laquer in Summerset. Before Elsweyr, I did daily delves and Worldbosses, as there always could be other players found to fight the bosses together. Since Elsweyr, it has become very difficult to find co-players, so I usually skip the bosses meanwhile.
A solution could be to change the behaviour of bosses or dragons, to adapt their difficulty to the amount of players around. Even if it could not be realized very precisely, at least a rough setting would be good, like 3 difficulty settings. Easy for 1 player, medium for 2-3, difficult for more (bosses).
For dragons it might be like easy for 1-4 players, medium for 4-9 players, difficult for more.
The problem without such an option is that people get quickly discouraged and leave these quests completely, so that summerset sometimes feels completely deserted except for some daily writ crafters and beginner questers.
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Maiyu93✭✭✭People were saying the same thing about the Dark Anchor bosses, scaling the bosses health up depending on the amount of players that are at the anchor. I doubt it'd ever happen0 -
markulrich1966✭✭✭✭✭
✭People were saying the same thing about the Dark Anchor bosses, scaling the bosses health up depending on the amount of players that are at the anchor. I doubt it'd ever happen
yeah, but it is less critical, as the anchors are too easy. Most people can solo them, so party groups like in Auridon with 20 players finish them in less than 1 minute.
It gets boring as it is too easy, but not unplayable like too hard settings.1 -
LoneStar2911✭✭✭✭✭What happens if there are 2 people at the dragon when the fight starts and then 20 more show up a minute later?
With dolmens, the amount of mobs is determined at the beginning of the fight.
They did it in WoW somehow. Harder enemies scaled with how many people tagged them. Whether it was at the start of the fight, middle, or end. And it was very smoothly done.
So it obviously can be done.
Whether or not ZOS can or will do it is another story.
"A solution could be to change the behaviour of bosses or dragons, to adapt their difficulty to the amount of players around."
Either way... I completely agree. This is something that needs to be done.(PC-NA) @LoneStar29111 -
markulrich1966✭✭✭✭✭
✭Answers like "you can solo them" hijack the thread ignoring the key problems.
1.) If I want hard content, I play vet dungeons in hardmode. Dragons instead are daily quest overland content.
2.) In dungeons, you always have defined settings: 2 DD, 1 healer, 1 tank.
Dragonfights instead are designed for large group as they occur during the launch of a DLC or events. Once the hype is gone, the setting is out of proportion. If this issue is ignored, the fights are impossible to win for many players, or they take far too long with regard to the low quality of the reward you get for it. My dragon yesterday took 20-25 minutes, so the daily quest would take 1-1:30 hours. Hence I aborted.
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redlink1979✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭markulrich1966 wrote: »Hi,
we had threads before discussing the "Dragons 2.0", and like many others, I appreciate the increased variety in their behaviour, as well as the higher difficulty.
However, there is a backside.
I play on XBOX, EU and NA.
While NA still is populated enough to fight the dragons especially in southern Elsweyr, EU gets in severe trouble.
I wanted to to the daily Tideholm (kill 3 dragons) tonight at 0:30 am, and gave up after the first dragon. I needed 6 or 7 soulgems to revive, despite CP1049, heavy armor templar. There were maybe 5 other players around.
This is a big difference to the event that just ended, when I could survive these fights without dying.
The problem resembles a bit another issue, I farm Culanda Laquer in Summerset. Before Elsweyr, I did daily delves and Worldbosses, as there always could be other players found to fight the bosses together. Since Elsweyr, it has become very difficult to find co-players, so I usually skip the bosses meanwhile.
A solution could be to change the behaviour of bosses or dragons, to adapt their difficulty to the amount of players around. Even if it could not be realized very precisely, at least a rough setting would be good, like 3 difficulty settings. Easy for 1 player, medium for 2-3, difficult for more (bosses).
For dragons it might be like easy for 1-4 players, medium for 4-9 players, difficult for more.
The problem without such an option is that people get quickly discouraged and leave these quests completely, so that summerset sometimes feels completely deserted except for some daily writ crafters and beginner questers.
Your cp is 810cp, that's what you can assign...
Regarding dragons v2.0: The biggest issue/meanest attack from dragons is the soul tear and how the ticks stacks - someone in the area needs to have some sort of cleanse: purify (Templar) or efficient purge (any other class) slotted - it will help himself and the others.
Most of the times I can survive those souls tears even without a cleanse skill because of the combination of buff food + damage shield from cp allocation + spamming self healings - my main is a stam DK. My magplar (alt char) has purify slotted and my magwarden (alt char) has efficient purge slotted.
They're harder I agree but downgrading dragons to something similar to the previous version? No, please no.Edited by redlink1979 on December 11, 2019 3:07PM"Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"- Sons of the Night Mother [PS5][EU] 2165 CP
- Daggerfall's Mightiest [PS5][NA] 1910 CP
- SweetTrolls [PC][EU] 1950 CP
- Bacon Rats [PC][NA] 1850 CP
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markulrich1966✭✭✭✭✭
✭What happens if there are 2 people at the dragon when the fight starts and then 20 more show up a minute later?
With dolmens, the amount of mobs is determined at the beginning of the fight.
Also, if you are a templar, do you have Purify slotted?
That is a legitimate question, but usually this situation is uncommon. During events, you usually have large groups immedeatly. At midnight, the groups usually don't suddenly increase from 2 to 20.
So given the current imbalance a rough dynamic difficulty adjustment would be better than nothing.
It even could adjust during the fight, easy as long as 2 players are around, difficult when the group increases to 20 players.
I did not use purify, as the DoT are my smallest issue.
It is far more difficult, when the dragon is assisted by 2 bone goliathts, 4 of the large flame atronarchs, and skeleton snipers in addition. It is their combined direct damage that killed me (so it was even not a frost dragon that is was the most difficult of the 3 types for me during the event).Edited by markulrich1966 on December 11, 2019 3:09PM0 -
markulrich1966✭✭✭✭✭
✭redlink1979 wrote: »Your cp is 810cp, that's what you can assign...
Regarding dragons v2.0: The biggest issue/meanest attack from dragons is the soul tear and how the ticks stacks - someone in the area needs to have some sort of cleanse: purify (Templar) or efficient purge (any other class) slotted - it will help himself and the others.
Most of the times I can survive those souls tears even without a cleanse skill because of the combination of buff food + damage shield from cp allocation + spamming self healings
They're harder I agree but downgrading dragons to something similar to the previous version? No, please no.
I just answered the soul tear in my previous reply.
Concerning CP: you can assign 810, but actually have 1049. I prefer to write the full CP as an indicator that I am a long term player. At CP 810 I was less experienced, as a result for example my CP assignment was unexperienced and wrong.
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Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In the absence of developer-mediated solutions, the only advice I have for you is to become an event organizer. If you aren't already part of a guild that does events, join one and ask to be an event organizer. Host weekly dragon raids, boss beatdowns, and whatever else you want to do but need a group for. Alternatively, you can also be an event organizer through zone chat. You'll find people.0 -
phileunderx2✭✭✭✭✭
✭Most players don't have a clue on how to kill the dragons. Northern Elyswyer right now is a ghost town and getting a dragon daily finished takes quite a bit of time and effort. In a few months southern will be the same.
So if you are late in aquiring this content you are going to not be killing many dragons.1 -
prof-dracko✭✭✭✭✭They could start by nerfing that bloody Soul Tear. Unless you have a purge ready or a quick on heals, its a real fight ender if there's only a few people going at the dragon.
And relating back to that geyser bit, I assumed that if you were doing them solo then you would only get that slightly harder Yahgra boss, the one without the name. But no, several times I've cleared through the initial waves alone then been faced with that god awful Dreugh boss which proceeds to wipe the floor with me. Then when I move away to wait for another player the thing rushes an insane distance to slaughter me again once I rez.
I'm not saying some players can't solo them. I'm far from top end and I suspect I could if I didn't make a single slip up given enough time, but sometimes the difficulty feels like its intended to screw the solo casual player or small group when, especially off peak times, that's sometimes all you can get.
Back to the dragons, I get they're meant to be overpowering and a single player should find it nigh impossible to do alone, but the swathe of insta-kill attacks and that ridiculous damage tick really makes going after them an off-putting prospect unless they're being zerged in seconds by the hoards.1 -
cyclonus11✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Since the number of players present is indirectly proportional to FPS, I recommend not making them more difficult for bigger crowds.1 -
llande✭✭✭No, don't nerf the dragons. They are good where they are. They should be tough to kill. Obey the mechanics and you'll not get killed so much. Don,'t stand in red😁0
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markulrich1966✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, don't nerf the dragons. They are good where they are. They should be tough to kill. Obey the mechanics and you'll not get killed so much. Don,'t stand in red😁
did you actually have a chance to try yourself? As european, I often play on NA when it is late night in the US, and even then the groups are large enough to kill them easily.
Some comments I see, show, that people actually have NOT experienced the fights on a deserted server like EU at midnight, as their well-meant suggestions point in wrong directions. The soul-leach is NOT the problem, but the ads that overrun small groups as they can't be killed quick enough.
The difficulty level can remain as it is by the way I suggested - for large groups.
But small ones like you don't have them on NA need a scaling.
Edited by markulrich1966 on December 11, 2019 7:11PM1
