Another Premade v PuG discussion

Weesacs · December 2019

A few weeks ago I was asked to join a BG premade with some of the more experienced guys who play on PS4 EU. I played two games and left the group because it was no fun as we steamrolled everyone. I mentioned this to them before I left, advising them that there is no competition or fun playing in a premade. Roll on two weeks and I'm meeting these same guys over and over again due to me having inflated MMR. These same guys seem to play BGs all hours of the day.

This isn't fun ZoS. We NEED separate queues. The poll shown in the following thread highlights a weighted result over two-thirds of there being a premade v pug issue yet u have provided no feedback whatsoever to this that I am aware of:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/400077/premade-groups-are-ruining-battlegrounds/p1

I'm not blaming the premades here. Your system completely sucks and needs reworked. Its not fun and it's not fair.

Qbiken · December 2019

Premades is the least of issues BG's have, long queue times is a significantly more urgent problem (especially for high mmr players).

Weesacs · December 2019

Qbiken wrote: »

Premades is the least of issues BG's have, long queue times is a significantly more urgent problem (especially for high mmr players).

Each to thier own I suppose. Personally I'd prefer to wait an extra few mins or so to have a competitive game over instant pop's and get steamrolled against premades. However I believe both these issues could be solved if they put some time, thought and effort into having a better MMR system and having separate queues.

Kel · December 2019

Qbiken wrote: »

Premades is the least of issues BG's have, long queue times is a significantly more urgent problem (especially for high mmr players).

I think these problems aren't mutually exclusive.

Solo players get steam rolled by premades.
Solo players don't find much fun or reward by getting constantly crushed.
Solo players stop queuing for battlegrounds.
Wait times get longer as population dwindles.

Battlegrounds are becoming a self defeating circle. The most effective way to compete is premade groups. But that is also killing the population who don't find getting crushed fun or rewarding.

You could say these solo queues could form thier own groups...but most can't because it's difficult to get players who want to step foot in PvP in general, let alone going up against specialized teams in battlegrounds. Or they simply don't wish to play so sweaty as to coordinate ultimate dumps and enjoy the free form chaos of solo queue.

ESO should accommodate both styles of enjoyment. And since they don't, BG's have become likened to a snake eating it's own tail. Population gets smaller as most players have no chance to compete and don't find it fun to be fodder, and groups who enjoy seeing thier enemies being driven before them are seeing crazy wait times because less players are finding enjoyment.

The BG population is becoming self defeating and stubborn in recognizing that fact.

Saltisol · December 2019

Weesacs wrote: »

A few weeks ago I was asked to join a BG premade with some of the more experienced guys who play on PS4 EU. I played two games and left the group because it was no fun as we steamrolled everyone. I mentioned this to them before I left, advising them that there is no competition or fun playing in a premade. Roll on two weeks and I'm meeting these same guys over and over again due to me having inflated MMR. These same guys seem to play BGs all hours of the day.

This isn't fun ZoS. We NEED separate queues. The poll shown in the following thread highlights a weighted result over two-thirds of there being a premade v pug issue yet u have provided no feedback whatsoever to this that I am aware of:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/400077/premade-groups-are-ruining-battlegrounds/p1

I'm not blaming the premades here. Your system completely sucks and needs reworked. Its not fun and it's not fair.

I would dare to guess that many of them that voted "no" in that poll are active in premades.

Yeah it's a bit disheartening that they don't bother to comment on it it could be interpreted as it's not something they work on.

ChunkyCat · December 2019

ZoS doesn’t care.

Kel · December 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

ZoS doesn’t care.

I'm afraid you're probably right. We would've seen some kind of ESO live chat or communication that they'd like to move in that direction.

More than that...could they even do separate queues? Group finder has been a plague on this game since it was implemented. And not because it isn't a useful tool for players, but because of how it functions...and the recent fix has been anything but successful.

Iskiab · December 2019

One thing I’ve noticed is premades only really help if you’re playing a spec that requires some sort of outside help to succeed.

My first toon I played BGs with a lot was a magblade healer. Worked wonders but with game changes I required someone else off healing to perform well at higher MMR. Otherwise I solo queued all the way up the MMR ranks.

My new toon now is a dps that off heals. Some games I pure dps, some games I pure heal, it depends on the weaknesses of my random team mates.

Most players when they build a spec are purely selfish, and that’s why they get rolled over and over again. Removing premades wouldn’t help as much as you think. Instead work on your spec and try to improve.

Think of it like you’re a tank, self healer and dps rolled into one spec. Eventually it clicks. Try playing solo away from Zergs in cyrodiil as well. Someone suggested that on the forums and I tried it, it’s true it really helps you learn.

Kel · December 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

One thing I’ve noticed is premades only really help if you’re playing a spec that requires some sort of outside help to succeed.

My first toon I played BGs with a lot was a magblade healer. Worked wonders but with game changes I required someone else off healing to perform well at higher MMR. Otherwise I solo queued all the way up the MMR ranks.

My new toon now is a dps that off heals. Some games I pure dps, some games I pure heal, it depends on the weaknesses of my random team mates.

Most players when they build a spec are purely selfish, and that’s why they get rolled over and over again. Removing premades wouldn’t help as much as you think. Instead work on your spec and try to improve.

Think of it like you’re a tank, self healer and dps rolled into one spec. Eventually it clicks. Try playing solo away from Zergs in cyrodiil as well. Someone suggested that on the forums and I tried it, it’s true it really helps you learn.

Most premades synergize groups. They wear things to compliment eachother and coordinate skills.

You seem like you're looking at this from a solo player perspective looking in.

Premades in PvP have alot in common with trial groups in PvE, where you may not get to play the character you want with the gear you'd like for the betterment of the team.

Premades, for the most part, aren't a bunch of random solo players who decide to just group up together...at least, not in high MMR matches. They are coordinated groups who play off eachother...they do not build selfishly. They build for the most efficient killing/healing potential for the group.

Exactly why it IS such a huge problem to throw premade together with pugs. Coordinated will beat random 90% of the time. One is prepared, one is unpredictable chaos.

I don't think premades should be removed. I think premades should fight other premades.

Xebov · December 2019

Kel wrote: »

I don't think premades should be removed. I think premades should fight other premades.

The question is if the population is big enought to do this.

They should put some work into this to get ppl into pvp in the first place.
PvP is special and ppl have issues get used to it. It also doesnt realy help that for some skills you need one morph for PvE but the other for PvP.
They also have to improve the reward system. Its nice that they have style pages for the BGs, but it doesnt help that the daily is bound to a 1st or 2nd place. Especially with the current popualtion ppl will get frustrated for not getting it. Additionally they should think about bonusses for matches where you have to fight against high ranking players or premade groups to make the loss of a game less servere compared to a normal game.

At the current point in time there have to be better or easier to obtain rewards to keep ppl inside the loop and build up a player base for the activity. In a long run they should even consider allowing players to skill both morphs to make it easier to have PvP and PvE builds on the same character.

PhoenixGrey · December 2019

Kel wrote: »

I don't think premades should be removed. I think premades should fight other premades.

That would never work
As long as premades are decent enough, Premades vs premades is a pve dps parse which no one wants to be part of.

Iskiab · December 2019

Kel wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

One thing I’ve noticed is premades only really help if you’re playing a spec that requires some sort of outside help to succeed.

My first toon I played BGs with a lot was a magblade healer. Worked wonders but with game changes I required someone else off healing to perform well at higher MMR. Otherwise I solo queued all the way up the MMR ranks.

My new toon now is a dps that off heals. Some games I pure dps, some games I pure heal, it depends on the weaknesses of my random team mates.

Most players when they build a spec are purely selfish, and that’s why they get rolled over and over again. Removing premades wouldn’t help as much as you think. Instead work on your spec and try to improve.

Think of it like you’re a tank, self healer and dps rolled into one spec. Eventually it clicks. Try playing solo away from Zergs in cyrodiil as well. Someone suggested that on the forums and I tried it, it’s true it really helps you learn.

Most premades synergize groups. They wear things to compliment eachother and coordinate skills.

You seem like you're looking at this from a solo player perspective looking in.

Premades in PvP have alot in common with trial groups in PvE, where you may not get to play the character you want with the gear you'd like for the betterment of the team.

Premades, for the most part, aren't a bunch of random solo players who decide to just group up together...at least, not in high MMR matches. They are coordinated groups who play off eachother...they do not build selfishly. They build for the most efficient killing/healing potential for the group.

Exactly why it IS such a huge problem to throw premade together with pugs. Coordinated will beat random 90% of the time. One is prepared, one is unpredictable chaos.

I don't think premades should be removed. I think premades should fight other premades.

Yea, you’re right... at higher MMR. That’s not where most of the premade complaints come from though.

Most complaints about premades come from your average pvper who queues for BGs. The premades most people fight are random players who group together from premade guilds. They group together primarily to exclude weak players much the same as what PvE guilds do.