Necromancer seems built for failure

markusloveFTM · December 2019

I'm just looking at Necromancer skills and, I really can't see how any of them are better or on par with the other classes abilities. I don't know if it's because Bethesda was scared of being called pay2win, so they made it worse than the other classes on purpose.

Why am I saying this? Well, let's take a look:

Ricochet skull: Seems like the slowest projectile on the game so far, and it really isn't that good anyway to begin with so, it just gets replaced with Force Pulse/Crushing Shock.
Romote Totem/Agony Totem: Just seems like a nerfed version of mass hysteria. I never use Remote Totem, sounds good in theory but the time it takes to place on the floor, you're probably dead if being attacked because you can't block or heal during this time.
Blastbones: Honestly? The worst skill I've ever seen seen. It has a massive animation, might as well not be instant cast, and then it takes 2 seconds to arise from the floor, making it self well known, doesn't even run at the enemy straight away and ends up falling apart before doing any damage (90% of the time).
Mender: Very unresponsive, I've had this literally just ignore me at 80% hp with no allies around. It heals quite big when it decides to heal but, that's quite rare when it does.
Collosus Ultimate: Same with Totem, takes a while to even get it cast and then when it does, warns the enemy a second prior to cast so, it barely hits anyone.

A lot of people will disagree but I've yet to see a Magicka Necromancer do good in a battleground so, I don't think I'll ever be proved wrong.

ChunkyCat · December 2019

markusloveFTM wrote: »

I've yet to see a Magicka Necromancer do good in a battleground so, I don't think I'll ever be proved wrong.

I have.

The tactic was something like wear the opponent down until they could collosus stomp with a vamp drain to hold you in it.

Anyway, L2P.

markusloveFTM · December 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

markusloveFTM wrote: »

I've yet to see a Magicka Necromancer do good in a battleground so, I don't think I'll ever be proved wrong.

I have.

The tactic was something like wear the opponent down until they could collosus stomp with a vamp drain to hold you in it.

Anyway, L2P.

So Necromancers are okay because they can use a non-class melee range ability which needs a block cancel to cancel the cast over time, to lock people into their ground 225 ultimate ability which takes 2 keystrokes?

I'm afraid that's not really enough when a nightblade can just mass hysteria and merciless resolve and Incapacitating strike you since we're talking melee range, with a nice execute to finish.

Sneakers · December 2019

I have only played this game since July 2019 and only played Necromancer.

I have played stamina and magicka, mostly stamina, and this patch changed to magicka.

Necro is lacking for sure.

It has clunky half broken skills, no executioner (outside of 2H spec) and many of its abilities are lacking a lot.

With that said it is not useless at all.

As magicka necro you can either go down the:

A) Harmony and Graveyard route and if you have the correct build/nische you can become extremly dangerous by comboing grave yard + blastbones + collosus into a vamp drain - 95% will not survive this combo.

B ) Play more standard "longer range" build.

Key is to become tanky enough for people to not be able to steam you down or pressure you while chipping away on them ~70% hp range then blastbones + collosus into vamp drain to finish them off.

I am getting daily hate mails myself from BGs from people who underestimate me and get stomped. With that said I cannot kill high end players with correct builds and equal "skill" since I lack executioner, and my skills are too unreliable for my skill alone to carry me in fights vs them were they have a solid class that works and equal / higher skill without RNG from broken blastbones/healing mender not healing etc etc etc.

In short, build tanky get high burst damage. You will never be able to dominate like a magsorc of equal "gear"/"skill" or burn people down on a templar or stamden but you can at least hang with them for a while..before they kill you. And you will at least feel you were in the fight.

markusloveFTM · December 2019

Sneakers wrote: »

I have only played this game since July 2019 and only played Necromancer.

I have played stamina and magicka, mostly stamina, and this patch changed to magicka.

Necro is lacking for sure.

It has clunky half broken skills, no executioner (outside of 2H spec) and many of its abilities are lacking a lot.

With that said it is not useless at all.

As magicka necro you can either go down the:

A) Harmony and Graveyard route and if you have the correct build/nische you can become extremly dangerous by comboing grave yard + blastbones + collosus into a vamp drain - 95% will not survive this combo.

B ) Play more standard "longer range" build.

Key is to become tanky enough for people to not be able to steam you down or pressure you while chipping away on them ~70% hp range then blastbones + collosus into vamp drain to finish them off.

I am getting daily hate mails myself from BGs from people who underestimate me and get stomped. With that said I cannot kill high end players with correct builds and equal "skill" since I lack executioner, and my skills are too unreliable for my skill alone to carry me in fights vs them were they have a solid class that works and equal / higher skill without RNG from broken blastbones/healing mender not healing etc etc etc.

In short, build tanky get high burst damage. You will never be able to dominate like a magsorc of equal "gear"/"skill" or burn people down on a templar or stamden but you can at least hang with them for a while..before they kill you. And you will at least feel you were in the fight.

Basically this.

With blastbones, with an ability that is so avoidable and unreliable, yeah it hits for 50% more damage than your spammable but you could probably do 2 spammables and 2 light attacks by the time you've even CASTED your blastbones, so you might as well just replace it with a dot (I haven't done this because blastbones reeled me into playing Necromancer in the first place despite it being useless)

Yeah, we have some okay heals, but lol, really? we just have a nerfed rushed ceremony? Intensive mender? Basically just an unreliable Rapid Regeneration.

I looked into the graveyard synergy combo build and, with 20 seconds cooldown on a synergy, I think I'll pass. Might be good for open world pvp zerging but, nah.

The class has no DoT's that aren't ground, no execute, no reliable stun, the spammable is sub-par to force pulse due to projectile speed and animation weaving issues, and sub-par healing to a templar. The ultimate is also a massive failure.

Let's just face it, if you're playing a magicka necromancer, it's because you like the idea of it, not because you like the class.

It's like ESO couldn't fathom the fact that due to the unreliability of Necromancer's abilities, they had to be very strong, they're just worse because you're a criminal? Maybe the lore is that because you learnt necromancy in secrecy, you were just a sub par magician obsessed with the dead.

ChunkyCat · December 2019

Every class uses non class skills and every class has issues. Welcome to ESO. Have you started decorating your house?

LukosCreyden · December 2019

"I don't think I'll ever be proved wrong."

I am very sorry, but this sounds a lot like bait.

Whilst I agree that Necro needs some work, (blastbones, tethers), it is FAR from being unservicable as a class. I have had some very good BG matches with mine, including some flawless matches.

markusloveFTM · December 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Every class uses non class skills and every class has issues. Welcome to ESO. Have you started decorating your house?

House decorating looks amazing but no I haven't decided on what house to buy yet for decorating. Was thinking either 'Gardner House' in Stormhaven or Snowglobe in Windhelm... but then... Lucky cat's landing, damn.

LukosCreyden wrote: »

"I don't think I'll ever be proved wrong."

I am very sorry, but this sounds a lot like bait.

Whilst I agree that Necro needs some work, (blastbones, tethers), it is FAR from being unservicable as a class. I have had some very good BG matches with mine, including some flawless matches.

Yeah, looking back, post looks identical to bait. But you have to admit, the abilities are so clunky, it's not PvP viable. I can never even get Bone Collusus to go off if I'm being attacked, the animation is so long I end up block cancelling it thinking it is finished.

Necromancer sounds good on paper, but when you play it? It's pretty broken.

Sneakers · December 2019

markusloveFTM wrote: »

Sneakers wrote: »

I have only played this game since July 2019 and only played Necromancer.

I have played stamina and magicka, mostly stamina, and this patch changed to magicka.

Necro is lacking for sure.

It has clunky half broken skills, no executioner (outside of 2H spec) and many of its abilities are lacking a lot.

With that said it is not useless at all.

As magicka necro you can either go down the:

A) Harmony and Graveyard route and if you have the correct build/nische you can become extremly dangerous by comboing grave yard + blastbones + collosus into a vamp drain - 95% will not survive this combo.

B ) Play more standard "longer range" build.

Key is to become tanky enough for people to not be able to steam you down or pressure you while chipping away on them ~70% hp range then blastbones + collosus into vamp drain to finish them off.

I am getting daily hate mails myself from BGs from people who underestimate me and get stomped. With that said I cannot kill high end players with correct builds and equal "skill" since I lack executioner, and my skills are too unreliable for my skill alone to carry me in fights vs them were they have a solid class that works and equal / higher skill without RNG from broken blastbones/healing mender not healing etc etc etc.

In short, build tanky get high burst damage. You will never be able to dominate like a magsorc of equal "gear"/"skill" or burn people down on a templar or stamden but you can at least hang with them for a while..before they kill you. And you will at least feel you were in the fight.

Basically this.

With blastbones, with an ability that is so avoidable and unreliable, yeah it hits for 50% more damage than your spammable but you could probably do 2 spammables and 2 light attacks by the time you've even CASTED your blastbones, so you might as well just replace it with a dot (I haven't done this because blastbones reeled me into playing Necromancer in the first place despite it being useless)

Yeah, we have some okay heals, but lol, really? we just have a nerfed rushed ceremony? Intensive mender? Basically just an unreliable Rapid Regeneration.

I looked into the graveyard synergy combo build and, with 20 seconds cooldown on a synergy, I think I'll pass. Might be good for open world pvp zerging but, nah.

The class has no DoT's that aren't ground, no execute, no reliable stun, the spammable is sub-par to force pulse due to projectile speed and animation weaving issues, and sub-par healing to a templar. The ultimate is also a massive failure.

Let's just face it, if you're playing a magicka necromancer, it's because you like the idea of it, not because you like the class.

It's like ESO couldn't fathom the fact that due to the unreliability of Necromancer's abilities, they had to be very strong, they're just worse because you're a criminal? Maybe the lore is that because you learnt necromancy in secrecy, you were just a sub par magician obsessed with the dead.

Your not wrong but your argument is somewhat hyperbole, for effect I assume.

Our class spammable is imo not worth slotting cus you cannot weave it and its slow and too obvious.
- There are atleast 2 other good spamables that does the job better. Much better.

Elemental + blast is a killer. This is your 12 gauge double barrel 1880

As a temporary fix to the necro, that would improve it noticeably without changing too much, is to sort out/fix blastbones.

Blast bones need to hit its target more reliable, the fact that its a delayed burst isnt bad at all. In contrary its what makes it lethal. However you cant have it NOT reach its target ~50% of the time as it currently stands.
Anyone who have fought a mag sorc streaking 99% of ur bones knows what I mean. Its silly. Is there any other delayed bursts that can be CCed to 0% effect?

The healing mender is the second thing that needs to be more reliable, it OFTEN does not heal you (for some reason).
If these two were fixed tomorrow the class would instantly improve. It wouldnt be perfect, but those two are major causes for frustration.

markusloveFTM · December 2019

Sneakers wrote:

Your not wrong but your argument is somewhat hyperbole, for effect I assume.

Our class spammable is imo not worth slotting cus you cannot weave it and its slow and too obvious.
- There are atleast 2 other good spamables that does the job better. Much better.

Elemental + blast is a killer. This is your 12 gauge double barrel 1880

As a temporary fix to the necro, that would improve it noticeably without changing too much, is to sort out/fix blastbones.

Blast bones need to hit its target more reliable, the fact that its a delayed burst isnt bad at all. In contrary its what makes it lethal. However you cant have it NOT reach its target ~50% of the time as it currently stands.
Anyone who have fought a mag sorc streaking 99% of ur bones knows what I mean. Its silly. Is there any other delayed bursts that can be CCed to 0% effect?

The healing mender is the second thing that needs to be more reliable, it OFTEN does not heal you (for some reason).
If these two were fixed tomorrow the class would instantly improve. It wouldnt be perfect, but those two are major causes for frustration.

The mender is so strange, I feel like because it's every 2 seconds it just gets confused.

Blastbones is that broken I can't even say what would fix it, but maybe if it it exploded on death (it will be near a player but fall apart because it hasn't had time to jump at him, which is apparently required for the explosion, but not all the time), since it's an illegal ability anyway; then of course, it needs a speed increase, ability can't be used on a player sprinting basically, even when not, it's gone by the time it can reach its target, and overall responsiveness to enemies nearby.

But what's really the biggest upset for me about blastbones, is how it's almost the staple of necromancer, but it seems like its just a nerfed haunting curse.

I feel like literally every ability necromancer has, is just a hand me down nerf of the current class abilities; even graveyard, doesn't even slow, why? Because wardens AoE ground frost already slowed people, so we just got a fail version which lowers spell resistance instead.

grannas211 · December 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

markusloveFTM wrote: »

I've yet to see a Magicka Necromancer do good in a battleground so, I don't think I'll ever be proved wrong.

I have.

The tactic was something like wear the opponent down until they could collosus stomp with a vamp drain to hold you in it.

Anyway, L2P.

That sounds absolutely terrible.

ChunkyCat · December 2019

Well, colossus stomp is arguably the best ultimate in the game and vamp drain has definitely turned into the best dot.

You’d see that if you stopped relying on CP to carry you >,>

Ragnarock41 · December 2019

Outside of Pet AI issues necromancer is a fine class.

markusloveFTM · December 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Well, colossus stomp is arguably the best ultimate in the game and vamp drain has definitely turned into the best dot.

You’d see that if you stopped relying on CP to carry you >,>

But stuns can be broken out of, and you can't call something a DoT if you have to channel the ability imo.

Anotherone773 · December 2019

Ive only played my magnecro in overland activities. Ive never came close to dying but im also max CP. It does feel underwhelming compared to base game classes. I might run some norm base game dungeons or do a few bgs with it just for lols, but i dont see myself trying to tackle anything seriously at this point.

I feel like they really try to keep from offending players who cant or dont want to invest in ESO and that is ridiculous.Even though i am a casual player and dont chase meta, i should be one of the first ones that see necro as an option for harder content and i see it pretty much as a questing character at this point.

ChunkyCat · December 2019

markusloveFTM wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Well, colossus stomp is arguably the best ultimate in the game and vamp drain has definitely turned into the best dot.

You’d see that if you stopped relying on CP to carry you >,>

But stuns can be broken out of

Yup!

But wait, there’s more!

Warden Shalks can be side stepped!

Sorc Frags can be dodged!

Nightblades can be pulled out of stealth!

Templar jabs can be healed through!

DK dots can be cleansed!

What a crazy world!

markusloveFTM · December 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

markusloveFTM wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Well, colossus stomp is arguably the best ultimate in the game and vamp drain has definitely turned into the best dot.

You’d see that if you stopped relying on CP to carry you >,>

But stuns can be broken out of

Yup!

But wait, there’s more!

Warden Shalks can be side stepped!

Sorc Frags can be dodged!

Nightblades can be pulled out of stealth!

Templar jabs can be healed through!

DK dots can be cleansed!

What a crazy world!

You'd have to be fighting a noob if they didn't dodge roll out of the bone collosus by the time you applied the vampiric drain stun, you have to admit that.

Bone collosus probably is the best AoE damage ability in ESO, PvE, but for PvP? I think it's a very unreliable ability.

Ragnarock41 · December 2019

markusloveFTM wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

markusloveFTM wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Well, colossus stomp is arguably the best ultimate in the game and vamp drain has definitely turned into the best dot.

You’d see that if you stopped relying on CP to carry you >,>

But stuns can be broken out of

Yup!

But wait, there’s more!

Warden Shalks can be side stepped!

Sorc Frags can be dodged!

Nightblades can be pulled out of stealth!

Templar jabs can be healed through!

DK dots can be cleansed!

What a crazy world!

You'd have to be fighting a noob if they didn't dodge roll out of the bone collosus by the time you applied the vampiric drain stun, you have to admit that.

Bone collosus probably is the best AoE damage ability in ESO, PvE, but for PvP? I think it's a very unreliable ability.

And if it was a reliable ability in PvP it would have to be severely nerfed. Its nice to have interesting + strong abilities/ultimates that have actual drawbacks to them.

Bullseyebudx · December 2019

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

markusloveFTM wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

markusloveFTM wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Well, colossus stomp is arguably the best ultimate in the game and vamp drain has definitely turned into the best dot.

You’d see that if you stopped relying on CP to carry you >,>

But stuns can be broken out of

Yup!

But wait, there’s more!

Warden Shalks can be side stepped!

Sorc Frags can be dodged!

Nightblades can be pulled out of stealth!

Templar jabs can be healed through!

DK dots can be cleansed!

What a crazy world!

You'd have to be fighting a noob if they didn't dodge roll out of the bone collosus by the time you applied the vampiric drain stun, you have to admit that.

Bone collosus probably is the best AoE damage ability in ESO, PvE, but for PvP? I think it's a very unreliable ability.

And if it was a reliable ability in PvP it would have to be severely nerfed. Its nice to have interesting + strong abilities/ultimates that have actual drawbacks to them.

For what it actually does it's pretty unreliable.

I've had people survive all three hits with ele up, entropy, BB explosion, and drain up it does happen, those people are obviously running competitive PvP builds and know how to play the game we don't usually get to finish our 1 v 1s, but it's usually a draw we can't kill each other.

The only difference? I can't kill them because either I can't get the ultimate ability to land, or I land all three hits with everything up and can't kill them before they heal or stealth

I either completely wreck people with it and they die after the first or second hit or they survive it completely by dodging or eating it all and the flurry of attacks after on like sub 5-10% HP sometimes without actually clearing the major vulnerability.

The vast majority of players that actually get caught in it only take 2 hits, and of those that take all 3 hits a fair amount actually survive and stabilize.

I have 19K pen & 2500 SD so go fly a kite if you think it's a L2P issue.

If you run a complete glass cannon build you're barely going to see a damage difference compared to what I'm running and your survivability will go down the toilet because other classes running glass cannons have better damage consistency. That's the deal. But it means you'll only get 1 shot to drop the colossus probably and there's a chance it might not even kill the play if they take all three hits.

They only class I'm consistently dying to this patch is Dragonknight, or 1 v +3's.

Why? Flame damage and Fossilize.

I'm not saying run out and buff the living hell out of class but right now I'm running into too many grindy scenarios were I know I have the DPS to kill the player, the sustain to outlast them, and there's no way they have enough DPS to kill me, so it's run out their stam pool and stun lock them into the colossus which is a painfully slow process considering you can't cast it sometimes because of combat issues, if you miss it's a hard and long reset, players can still roll dodge before I can cast the stun FYI the indicator comes up before I can cast my stun. Sorcs can steak away so I've run into draws there too.

Against Joe Shmo the class quickly kills just LIKE EVERY OTHER CLASS.

Competitively it's a different kettle of fish right now, but most of that boils down to performance issues, abilities actually performing as they should, and not having to deal with bugs.

I'm experiencing a consistent non-preventable bug with the Mage's Guild skill line that's reducing my tool tip damage, I'll have to check my actual damage output tonight but this leads me to believe they specifically set some of the DPS numbers considering I can get players so low without killing them.

@Chunky None of the effects you mentioned are ultimate abilities just an FYI you must not have known.

ChunkyCat · December 2019

Bullseyebudx wrote: »

@Chunky None of the effects you mentioned are ultimate abilities just an FYI you must not have known.

You’re absolutely right! None of those effects are ultimate abilities!! So many righteousness going around! How lovely.

But I was responding specifically to:

markusloveFTM wrote: »

stuns can be broken out of

You’d see that if you scroll up. But don’t worry. I won’t blame you for missing it. People tend to miss stuff when they’re responding to an online post with a doctorate level dissertation like the one you posted.

Very informative stuffs. Keep up the good work!

Bullseyebudx · December 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Bullseyebudx wrote: »

@Chunky None of the effects you mentioned are ultimate abilities just an FYI you must not have known.

You’re absolutely right! None of those effects are ultimate abilities!! So many righteousness going around! How lovely.

But I was responding specifically to:

markusloveFTM wrote: »

stuns can be broken out of

You’d see that if you scroll up. But don’t worry. I won’t blame you for missing it. People tend to miss stuff when they’re responding to an online post with a doctorate level dissertation like the one you posted.

Very informative stuffs. Keep up the good work!

You can cast the rest of the abilities you mentioned immediately again, you can’t with Colossus.

Does that make sense?

All your power is bundled up into a house of cards on the Necro so much so that even the cheapest effect in the game can’t get you any consistency.

So when someone dodges one of the attacks you mentioned it’s a negligible effect because you can just cast it again immediately, and your potential DPS loss is non existent so the comparison you’re making is irrelevant to the context of how the class functions which is via the Colossus, that’s all.

Anhedonie · December 2019

Blastbones initially used to form and then instantly leap after 3 seconds. Running animation was added later, because of whatever dumb reason they came up with, but class designer didn't account for the dps/cd/rotation changes and it messed up the whole structure of the class basically.

It was the same as warden with 3-1 concept, but pathing issues, dumb AI and bugs influenced it in a bad way.

Kadoin · December 2019

"Built for failure"

Yet the numbers of them are probably going to keep rising, especially in PvP.

Hmm...

markusloveFTM · December 2019

Kadoin wrote: »

"Built for failure"

Yet the numbers of them are probably going to keep rising, especially in PvP.

Hmm...

It’s sad the end reason I’ll probably quit ESO. I chooses classes based on fun, not PvP viability, because I just assume they’ll be basically the same, but they’re not.

I play mainly battlegrounds and I don’t see many necromancers, and if I do, they’re at the bottom of the leaderboards for kills, healing and damage, and usually a lot of deaths.

No reliable stun, no reliable damage ultimate, no mobility abilities, summons are broken and mana expensive.

You’d think with it being the only class with illegal abilities that it’d have some sort of pro to counteract this con, but it’s iust a load of cons built into a class because it’s what players of Skyrim and Oblivion wanted to see in the game.

I honestly think because this class was requested from all the Skyrim and Oblivion players who seen necromancy so much, that they thought because they’re coming from a single player game they’ll be more PvE orientated, what a joke.

I’ll probably end this on this:

Resistant Flesh: Nerfed Templar heal
Blastbones: Even if weren’t broken, nerfed haunting curse.
Ricochet skull: unusable, nerfed swallow soul or crystal frag.
Totem: Nerfed mass hysteria, never works, synergy on agony totem is actually useless and remote totem takes too long to cast.
Grave grasp: nerfed ability of the sorcerer group immobilisation, seems so lower with the three individual patches leading towards the enemy rather than sorcerer’s.
Mender: broken, Nerfed rapid regeneration (higher tooltip, lower reliability)
Skeletal Arcanist: absolute mana burn, seems to only attack people very close, and runs around too much to maintain DPS, attacks pets all the time.
Graveyard; beefed warden aoe.

They just recycled all the abilities in the game at the moment and made them worse so they wouldn’t be called pay2win, but how can you know a class is broken before you play it? And then of course, your refund requests for Elsweyr is denied.

What a joke.

markusloveFTM · December 2019

Meant to say gravegrasp is too slow. Meant to say graveyard is nerfed AoE of wardens because the wardens slows enemies.

Auto correct, can’t edit posts.

Ryskim · December 2019

The Necromancer in ESO should be THE CLASS with permanent pets, not the Sorcerer. The Sorcerer should be the one with very temporary pets, not the Necromancer.

This being said, I have been playing this game since the beta (unlike others that only buy the game for the Necromancer class, what a stup**ity in my opinion), yes it's correct everyone wanted the Necromancer and it's very irritating that they took so damn long in adding it to the game, yet they added the Warden before the Necromancer.

This is my opinion:

- Blastbones should be a permanent, tanking pet.
- Skeleton Sorc should be permanent as well.
- Golem should be a Flesh Golem, permanent until dead.
- Ricochet skull should have a snare effect.
- New weapon type: 2-handed Scythe, exclusive to the necromancer.
- Bone Goliath duration should be extendable when killing enemies in the form (to a degree), weapon should be transformed into a giant 2-handed Scythe with specific new skills (replaced in the ability bar) for the duration.
- Death Scythe should look more physical (I love the skill, but the graphics need to be reworked)
- Needs a zombie type pet very much, maybe a skin for the permanent skeleton

Necromancer should be necromancers, they tried to innovate, but in truty, what people wanted is a necromancer, not this kind of gimped un-lore-friendly class that does not really look much like a true Elder Scrolls necromancer.

I hope we get a permanent skeleton or zombie ability some time in the future.

EDIT: for those who are going to say that giving permanent pets to Necromancers will contribute to lag and other stuff, say that to the Sorcerers. They've had permanent pets since... forever, and no problem whatsoever. So save yourselves the time with that excuse. If there is one class in this game that deserves permanent pets more than any other class, that is the necromancer, simple as that.

vestahls · December 2019

Saying Necro is built for failure is like saying Burglars are built for failure in Arena, or Nightblades were built for failure in Daggerfall, or that Heralds are built for failure in Dark Souls, or Nosferatu were built for failure in VTMB.

All classes are/should be playable. And the more different the classes are, the more fun it is. But there's also a reason why, in most games, there's a specific class you have to pick if you're doing a speedrun.

Likewise in ESO, there are metabuilds you play if you want to go through the game as easily as possible, but since when does that mean the other classes aren't being what they're supposed to be?

It would be a disadvantage to the game if all classes performed the same, just with different flashy animations. It is normal that there are stronger and weaker classes, or some are situationally functional. Having vastly different classes would also encourage more group play, for the MMO lovers. The mistake ZOS makes is having some classes be (more) self-sufficient in PVP.

In fact, it would benefit everyone if classes were made in such a way that you were forced to have huge groups to PVP. That way, nobody would complain about zergs, because everyone would be zerging. And nobody would complaint about op 1 v X'ers, because you literally couldn't do it. And last but not least, in a war you have to have armies fighting, not some silly one man taking on 50 people, that's just absurd and puts a lot of people off even trying PVP here.

That said, yes they really need to fix the pet AI for Necro, as well as the cast speed for the Skull.

Blastbones sometimes sits around for ages right next to a mob and refuses to explode, it's really buggy and dumb. And yes Necros should be the class with the permanent summons, not Sorc - although going around with your skeletal servants might pose a legal problem in some places, which I guess is the argument for why they didn't implement it. But the same can be said for daedric servants following Sorcs around, ZOS.

As for the totem and the colossus, although (compared to other class skills) it feels like you're stuck in animation forever and can't properly weave with them, and this should probably be fixed, it still kind of is... summoning large undead things, and yeah it's normal that this should take a while.

The most lore-friendly compromise would be to make Necro the most expensive and time-consuming class, but also the hardest hitter. But then people would cry for nerfs and you could breeze through the game with, as the devs put it, a well-coordinated army of necros just timing their casts. Which would be realistic, but "unfair" to other players from a technical standpoint.

But the pet AI, and the tethering issues (which I think they said they will still work on in the future) are technical issues, not design issues. A Necro not hitting as hard as other classes is kind of normal, because that's not what Necros are about, and yeah people play them because they like the idea of the it, not the class itself.

SirMewser · December 2019

There is no deny from the community...

ZoS has also acknowledged issues with Blastbone and Hunger from Defiler (if they remember the latter

), the "broken turret" behaviour of minions following their caster, and navmeshing for all minions following their targeted enemy (even more ridiculous in IC sewers than overland).

For all that was mentioned, pet redesign is underway in the update to the performance roadmap leading on, into the new year.
https://elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56681

They are also working on improving the reliability of tethers as they get obstructed by player's crosshair and LOS with terrain, small objects, and even enemy collusion (same with mend wounds and nature's grasp).

There was no word for changing how players can weave the spammable, however, the GCD of it is the same as the old (Psijic Order:) mend wounds and current (Warden:) dive, which did raise verbal discontent for which later lead to improvements therefore. So I'm hopeful.

ChunkyCat wrote: »

markusloveFTM wrote: »

I've yet to see a Magicka Necromancer do good in a battleground so, I don't think I'll ever be proved wrong.

I have.

The tactic was something like wear the opponent down until they could collosus stomp with a vamp drain to hold you in it.

Anyway, L2P.

Not sure what L2P has to do with crappy programming other than to bait the person and degrade them because you're feeling egocentric. Why is your one example of applying two skills in combo a catch all solution for the class? How does that work with competent players? How does it resolve the integrity of the class, functionally? Also contradicting when OP apparently hasn't met any good players with the class when you claim to have, so perhaps eat your own words.

Oh how I remember the days when half of Templar's skills were bugged for almost a whole year. (No no, not weak, actually broken since that seems to be a difficult concept to differentiate.)

"Warden Shalks can be side stepped!
Sorc Frags can be dodged!
Nightblades can be pulled out of stealth!
Templar jabs can be healed through!
DK dots can be cleansed!"

Walking outside of a hitbox/telegraph is avoiding "stupid".
Dodging projectiles is a core mechanic.
Revealing stealth players is counter-play, core mechanic.
Healing damage is a core mechanic.
Cleanses for dots is a core mechanic.

How does AI or false-positive flags for targeted skills make nor relate with reactive gameplay?
Quality system designs and errors has nothing to do with human voluntary consciousness.
Isn't that amazing?! Who would have known!?

What you asked for from OP is therefor involuntary compliance through subjugation and intimidation by your approach to deprive him of dignity over his (wrongly assumed) ability to play a game.

Sorry, not cute.

Stay safe and be good to yourself!

markusloveFTM · December 2019

I don't see why Necromancer pets can't be permenant, and re-cast for some-sort of death/scarification, therefore being easily de-cast for going to cities, etc.

Since when was necromancy strictly skeletons anyway, never was in Skyrim or any other Elder Scrolls game, so boring, especially the mender, a stupid ghoul, so boring, wow.

I'd get over the fact you had to re-cast them all the time if they were actually decent.

Also, no one gonna talk about skeletal arcanist? With a 15x5m radius, re-cast every 16 seconds for about 4000 magicka, hits for a tooltip of 3k every 2 seconds for me LOL, and then it just prioritizes pets over players and runs around drunk for the most part of the 15 seconds.

I've been a player since beta myself, but to be honest, I'm bored of the classes by now and wanted to try the necromancer but have now discovered how boring it is, how fail it is, it's just a joke.

Glacial Collosus just seems like a really stupid ability as well, "SUMMON A GLACIAL COLLUSUS FOR 4 SECONDS THAT STAYS IN 1 PLACE WITH NO LEGS". I suppose we had no chance for necromancer with Sorcerers already having summoning.

ImSoPro · December 2019

I feel like I’m always the one that disagrees with these threads on how bad necro is and I’m here to disagree again.

I don’t feel like necro is in that bad of a spot especially this patch. I main magcro right now. The class was already tanky so now with the tank and heal meta taking over this patch if built right necro can be pretty invincible. I’ll just speak from my experience with the class.

Everyone seems to want every class to work the exact same. They want every class to have a class cc, every class to have a class stun, every class to have a gap closer etc. but if every class had everything you needed then the other skill lines would be useless. ZoS wants game diversity and they want you to have to explore all skill lines so all the classes will always be lacking one thing or another. Every class plays differently and they will never play the same. Once you move past that then you can enjoy each class for what it offers.

It’s all about adapting to each class. Necro imo seems built for holding down small areas of battle. So how I use necro I go all in on tankiness with mighty chudan instead of a DPS monster set and this helps a lot because I’m in light obv as a magcro. This also allows me to play without a shield and instead slot extra heals on my bar. I also switched from Breton to Imperial for extra stam and hp. More tankiness and helps sustain with red diamond and 3% skill cost reduction across the board. Also I’ve never played Imperial in any ES so I wanted to switch it up.

Chudan + Imperial passives = 27k HP in 5 light 2 heavy. Crafty Alfiq with arcane jewelry = 37k magicka. I run BSW too because Necro has built in flame damage already. 507 additional spell dmg proc pushes me over 2k spell dmg for the duration. All of this adds up to a tanky hard hitting magcro. As I enter a fight my intensive mender is already up and I place ele drain on the target, BB, vamp drain stun, block cancel, LA, flame skull. If perfect timing then flame skull hits right when BB hits and the target is either dead or dead shortly after. Healing tether a body and re summon mender and arcanist and repeat. When ultimate is ready BB, vamp drain to hold and drop ult. Usually gets at least two hits off everytime. I usually save the ultimate for 1vX situations.

When BB is working properly that’s all the burst you need. Intensive mender(which has never not healed me so it sucks that some people experience that)combined with healing tether, using resistant flesh as needed allows me to hold my own even when getting smacked by Templar holy beam as a vamp. Earlier today in BGs my team died and I was 1v4 and my heals allowed me to get one BB off to back the whole team up, reset myself and turn up the heat on them and stay alive till my team got back to me. Since necro isn’t a speedy class I anchor at a location and hold it down best I can with steady streams of corpses for my healing tether which also heals teammates you can very easily take control of BGs. This play style also is helped further by the extra stam from Imperial passives because I roll dodge a lot.

It took ALOT of trial and error finding a good playstyle that works for me. ALOT of getting smacked in BGs and Cyro. I use this for PvP and PVE but when I PVE I switch skills and sometimes change monster sets. The class isn’t perfect because no class is but it’s all about adapting to each class. So necro just may not be a very popular class because people don’t like how it plays but it doesn’t mean it’s broken or “built for failure”. Blastbones definitely needs to be fixed and skull needs to be sped up. LOS might be necessary for tethers because if the tether could just go through all objects I think that would be OP because the range on the tethers is already alot. Both Ultimates are strong. That’s just my opinion on the class and a build that works for me. I’m usually double digit kills unless sorcs are my team kill stealing. I think the class is fine. Just my two cents

evoniee · December 2019

necro are great, have delayed burst, purge, burst heal (magicka), mitigation / HoT (mender) and of course best group burst skill