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Understanding the pyramid of damage components mechanics in ESO

Lughlongarm
Lughlongarm
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Trying once and for all to Understand the way damage is being calculated in ESO when it comes to buffs and debuffs(keep in mid, not discussing overall utility and effectiveness, only the potential to increase damage).

My current assumption is(based on CP environment, 100% crit chance) :

Minor Brutality/Sorcery <minor berserk<minor force< minor Vulnerability

Is this correct? If so what the estimated gap difference between damage buffs multipliers and debuffs like Vulnerability?

For example deadly strike vs morag tong, on a purely poison dot, which one will do more damage(and by how much)? Is there a way to figure this out without doing real time testing?

Thank you.
  • FPH
    FPH
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    you miss the first value: penetration! you will always have different results if you calculate not with the same armor/spell penetration. 18,2k for big dudes and 9,2k for the smaller ones in vMA (pls correct me if I m wrong)
    Penetration is the biggest damage increase until you reach the cap

    your sample depends on your class and skill and sets. You can calculate it easy with UESP Build Editor EsoBuildEditor

    I put a character in, without any skills beside of Poison injection (only Poison injection in your skill bar) and then put only!!! 5 pcs medium Deadly and than Morag tong in. You see the set difference there.

    With Deadly your Poison injection hit for 694 and 1386 over time. With Morag Tong it hits for 751 and 1500 over time. So the additional 1096 stam is more raw damage.
    But this change complete with full skilled/sets/class/build.

  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    I think it’s setup so that so that minor berserk = minor vulnerability = major breach = minor force (in a trial setting only). They all work out to about an 8% boost in damage.

    In places like pvp this changes, but in pve trials it holds true.
    Edited by Iskiab on December 5, 2019 2:24PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • HankTwo
    HankTwo
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    I'm not 100% sure about this, since I haven't tested all of it myself. But as far as I know, to calculate the true damage you have to follow this equation:

    true_damage = base_damage * damage_multiplier * crit_multiplier * total_mitigation

    with:

    a) base_damage = skill_coefficient * (base_magicka * sum_of_mag_buffs + base_spell_dmg * sum_of_spell_buffs * 10.5)

    Of course for stamina abilities you have to look at stamina and weapon damage. Magicka buffs are for example the undaunted mettle passive or the mages guild inner light buff. Spell damage buffs are for example the sorcery buffs, or the sorcerer expert mage passive.

    Note however, that some skills don't follow this rule and only take max magicka, max stam or even max health into consideration.

    b) damage_multiplier = 1 + sum_of_damage_buffs - sum_of_damage_debuffs

    Generally speaking, these damage buffs are all buffs that increase damage by a certain percentage. Most prominently are the berserk buffs, but the warden advaced species passive is another example.

    Damage debuffs are all beduffs that decrease your damage by a certain percentage. These are called minor and major main in game.

    c) crit_multiplier = 1.5 + sum_of_crit_buffs - (target_crit_resistance / 6800)

    An important thing to consider here is that as far as I know this can never become smaller than 1, so landing a crit on a target with extremely high crit resistance will still do at least non-crit damage. Crit buffs are all that increase critical damage by a certain percantage, for example minor force, shadow mundus, or the templar piercing spear passive.

    d) total_mitigation = (1- (target_true_resistance * (1 - ignore_resistance_multiplier) - total_penetration) / 66000) * (product_of_target_mitigation_buffs + sum_of_damage_taken_debuffs) * (1 - target_block_mitigation)

    Note, that with true target resistances I mean the targets base resistance plus the sum of the targets resistance buffs (major and minor resolve) minus the sum of resistance debuffs (fracture and breah). The 'ignore resistance multiplier' is a special case in game and only applies to the dual wield twin blade and blunt as well as the 2h heavy weapons passives in case of maces/mauls).

    Target mitigation buffs are all buffs that reduce the targets damage taken by a certain percentage, for example the protection buffs or the vampire mistform skill. It is very important to note that in contrats to basically all other buffs/debuffs the product of one minus mitigation buffs are calculated here instead of the sum.

    --> product_of_target_mitigation_buffs = 1 * (1 - mitigation_buff_1) * (1 - mitigation_buff_2) * (1 - mitigation_buff_3) * (...)

    Damage taken debuffs are all debuffs that increase the targets damage taken by a certain percentage. Those are for example the vulnerabiliy debuffs, or the dragonknight engulfing flames debuff. However, I must admit that here I'm not really sure if the sum or product is calculated. It could be:

    ---> sum_of_damage_taken_debuffs = damage_taken_debuff_1 + damage_taken_debuff_2 + damage_taken_debuff_3 + ...

    or

    --> product_of_damage_taken_debuffs = (1 + damage_taken_debuff_1) * (1 + damage_taken_debuff_2) * (1 + damage_taken_debuff_3) * (...) - 1

    If anbody knows for sure, please let me know.
    PC EU
    Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK
  • T3hasiangod
    T3hasiangod
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    Generally speaking, you're going to get the following return from those buffs/debuffs.

    Minor Force - Roughly 5 percent or so

    Minor Berserk - Roughly 7.6 percent or so

    Minor Vulnerability - Between 7 to 8 percent

    Major Sorcery - Between 9 to 10 percent

    Major Brutality - Between 10 to 11 percent

    Major Fracture/Breach - Roughly 11.8 percent or so
    PC/NA - Mayflower, Hellfire Dominion

    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer - Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor - Voice of Reason - Gryphon Heart - The Unchained - Extinguisher of Flames

    Tank - Healer - DPS (all classes, all specs)

    Youtube - Twitch
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    HankTwo wrote: »
    I'm not 100% sure about this, since I haven't tested all of it myself. But as far as I know, to calculate the true damage you have to follow this equation:

    true_damage = base_damage * damage_multiplier * crit_multiplier * total_mitigation

    with:

    a) base_damage = skill_coefficient * (base_magicka * sum_of_mag_buffs + base_spell_dmg * sum_of_spell_buffs * 10.5)

    Of course for stamina abilities you have to look at stamina and weapon damage. Magicka buffs are for example the undaunted mettle passive or the mages guild inner light buff. Spell damage buffs are for example the sorcery buffs, or the sorcerer expert mage passive.

    Note however, that some skills don't follow this rule and only take max magicka, max stam or even max health into consideration.

    b) damage_multiplier = 1 + sum_of_damage_buffs - sum_of_damage_debuffs

    Generally speaking, these damage buffs are all buffs that increase damage by a certain percentage. Most prominently are the berserk buffs, but the warden advaced species passive is another example.

    Damage debuffs are all beduffs that decrease your damage by a certain percentage. These are called minor and major main in game.

    c) crit_multiplier = 1.5 + sum_of_crit_buffs - (target_crit_resistance / 6800)

    An important thing to consider here is that as far as I know this can never become smaller than 1, so landing a crit on a target with extremely high crit resistance will still do at least non-crit damage. Crit buffs are all that increase critical damage by a certain percantage, for example minor force, shadow mundus, or the templar piercing spear passive.

    d) total_mitigation = (1- (target_true_resistance * (1 - ignore_resistance_multiplier) - total_penetration) / 66000) * (product_of_target_mitigation_buffs + sum_of_damage_taken_debuffs) * (1 - target_block_mitigation)

    Note, that with true target resistances I mean the targets base resistance plus the sum of the targets resistance buffs (major and minor resolve) minus the sum of resistance debuffs (fracture and breah). The 'ignore resistance multiplier' is a special case in game and only applies to the dual wield twin blade and blunt as well as the 2h heavy weapons passives in case of maces/mauls).

    Target mitigation buffs are all buffs that reduce the targets damage taken by a certain percentage, for example the protection buffs or the vampire mistform skill. It is very important to note that in contrats to basically all other buffs/debuffs the product of one minus mitigation buffs are calculated here instead of the sum.

    --> product_of_target_mitigation_buffs = 1 * (1 - mitigation_buff_1) * (1 - mitigation_buff_2) * (1 - mitigation_buff_3) * (...)

    Damage taken debuffs are all debuffs that increase the targets damage taken by a certain percentage. Those are for example the vulnerabiliy debuffs, or the dragonknight engulfing flames debuff. However, I must admit that here I'm not really sure if the sum or product is calculated. It could be:

    ---> sum_of_damage_taken_debuffs = damage_taken_debuff_1 + damage_taken_debuff_2 + damage_taken_debuff_3 + ...

    or

    --> product_of_damage_taken_debuffs = (1 + damage_taken_debuff_1) * (1 + damage_taken_debuff_2) * (1 + damage_taken_debuff_3) * (...) - 1

    If anbody knows for sure, please let me know.

    I’m unsure of the answer myself, but the guy who was testing it found was thinking it’s the first case. The game was changed to make all forms of protection and vulnerability additive (with battle spirit being equivalent to a 50% protection). He was still looking into it though and am not sure if he came to a final conclusion.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
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