Can we have healing skills that also do damage?

FierceSam · November 2019

You will find it hard to level as a healer (or a tank).

This game rewards you for killing things. Most quests, all delves and many side quests gauge success on killing. It’s on reason why so few players play healers and tanks. And there is the sense that from ZOS’s point of view there is no point in solo playing either healers or tanks (although solo players have to be both to some extent).

You would probably be wiser to go resto/destroy (or sword n board/offensive weapon for tanks) when you are questing. Then focus on the resto bar when turning in quests. Then develop your healing character more fully later on when you are doing significantly more group content.

Also, your resto staff does do light attack and heavy attack damage, which can be quite effective.

Nerftheforums · November 2019

Are you talking about having a skill like relentless/merciless, swallow soul, soul tether, killer's blade/impale, puncturing strikes, purifying light, flame lash, searing strike, vamp drain, bat swarm, etc?

Yeaaaah, there aren't many of them around. We need more, not enough healing.

richo262 · November 2019

Ilision wrote: »

xWarbrain wrote: »

Magwarden:

Arctic Blast
Entropy
Green Lotus
Leeching Vines
Betty Netch

This is what I was asking for, Thank you very much but that is still not enough damage to quest or do solo gameplay.

I thought that I have clearly stated in the name "healing skills that also do damage" not damage skills that also heal

You can quite easily turn a healer into an overland / questing dps by swapping just a few skills around.

It is the same thing for tanks, swap out for a 2hd and switch up a few skills and you can quest without it being tedious.

I just wish that ZOS let you have multiple builds per character so swapping between roles isn't such a chore, but as it stands you can swap out a few skills and make a non-tedious overworld quester.

LuxLunae · November 2019

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Well, every class has a way to heal while doing damage.

Sorcs have crit surge, the twilight matriarch and the passive blood magic.

Templars sweeps, purifying ritual and ritual of retribution.

Nightblades have swallow soul, sap essance

Dks have burning embers and power lash

Wardens have the passive bond with nature, lotus flower and artic wind does damage now.

Necromancers have death scythe.

And all magic classes can use structured entropy.

sweeps dont heal... lol noob..

tmbrinks · November 2019

JumpmanLane wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

The only reason I'd want "healing" skills to do damage is for proccing the enchantment on my resto bar, since it will only proc on those skill line skills or on light/heavy attacks.

it'd be easier to keep up your resto bar enchantments up than relying on just light attacks. Having "combat prayer" put a DoT of even 1 damage for the duration would be an awesome change for those purposes.

(For leveling/overland... each class has a damage/heal ability you can use.. or just put damage on front bar and back bar the healing skills and switch to back bar when you get the "big" XP rewards)

You should be weaving ANYWAY...

never said I didn't

Then hotkeys are your new best friend lol

I think you're talking to the wrong person... lol? maybe? I'm confused. Maybe you're confused. We may all be confused.

I do light attack weave with both my resto and destro. I'm an endgame pve healer, it's a requirement.

I just said it'd be nice to have a RESTO skill that did some damage to keep the resto bar proc up more reliably, like wall of elements is for the DESTRO bar. Nothing more. Not that I have trouble keeping up my resto bar proc. Was just making a suggestion...

Nordic__Knights · November 2019

So what becomes of them skills once your lvled ? 😆 😆 😆 think beforehand this just sounds dumb because skills just dont magical change because you lvled up and now just need them to do 1 thing not 2

Ilision · November 2019

***THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR COMMENTS***

I have got plenty of comments that will help me. I want to apologize to those I made angry for suggesting this, I am sorry.

Have a wonderful holiday season.

OG_Kaveman · November 2019

LuxLunae wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Well, every class has a way to heal while doing damage.

Sorcs have crit surge, the twilight matriarch and the passive blood magic.

Templars sweeps, purifying ritual and ritual of retribution.

Nightblades have swallow soul, sap essance

Dks have burning embers and power lash

Wardens have the passive bond with nature, lotus flower and artic wind does damage now.

Necromancers have death scythe.

And all magic classes can use structured entropy.

sweeps dont heal... lol noob..

Umm. What?

Puncturing Sweep IV 2700 Magicka

Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear. The spear deals 1591 Magic Damage to the closest enemy and 610 Magic Damage to all other enemies. Each strike reduces the Movement Speed of the closest enemy by 40% for 1 second. You heal for 40% of the damage done with this ability. You heal for a percentage of the damage done.

barney2525 · November 2019

Ilision wrote: »

There are plenty of self healing skills but what I am talking about is as a healer I should be able to level as one also and not rely on the off-hand bar or the DPS skills to do damage.

Why?

Ilision · November 2019

barney2525 wrote: »

Ilision wrote: »

There are plenty of self healing skills but what I am talking about is as a healer I should be able to level as one also and not rely on the off-hand bar or the DPS skills to do damage.

Why?

@barney2525 It was just a thought. I have been playing a lot of MMO's over the years and in most found it hard to level/end game play as a 100% healer. Fortunately, ESO is different but if I choose to slot all the healing abilities and run around the overland, you can't do any DPS without swapping skill. Due to this especially at a lower level, I have to sacrifice a healing skill point for a DPS one. This is just me and yes maybe I am doing it wrong but I play however I want to play and I am pretty sure there isn't a wrong way to play this game as long as it works for you.

barney2525 · November 2019

Ilision wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Ilision wrote: »

There are plenty of self healing skills but what I am talking about is as a healer I should be able to level as one also and not rely on the off-hand bar or the DPS skills to do damage.

Why?

@barney2525 It was just a thought. I have been playing a lot of MMO's over the years and in most found it hard to level/end game play as a 100% healer. Fortunately, ESO is different but if I choose to slot all the healing abilities and run around the overland, you can't do any DPS without swapping skill. Due to this especially at a lower level, I have to sacrifice a healing skill point for a DPS one. This is just me and yes maybe I am doing it wrong but I play however I want to play and I am pretty sure there isn't a wrong way to play this game as long as it works for you.

There is no 'wrong way ', but IMHO you can't turn around and complain about the method you personally choose. You want to do the quests, but be a healer, you gotta make some choices. If you don't care about quests, one option is do dolmens. Stick one offensive ability on the front bar (so you can do damage to the boss and get credit for it) load up the other 4 with healing and use a staff or bow depending on if you are stam or mag.

The XP in this game is based on offense. The game is Not going to change just because someone wants to focus on being a healer, or a tank. You have to work around the game. The game is not gonna cater to you, or me, or anybody. Thinking that you should be able to level up as a healer and then somehow ALSO be able to dish out a lot of damage does not make a lot of sense. Because After you had done the questing, now you have a healer with tons of offense to run dungeons etc. And what sense does that make?

You can't set something up for 'while you are leveling', and then think it would have no effect on 'after you have leveled up'.

IMHO

Finedaible · November 2019

There are technically some abilities which both heal and deal damage but ZoS decided to nerf them to underwhelming status because those skills were too much fun and absolutely nobody complained about them.

OG_Kaveman · November 2019

Finedaible wrote: »

There are technically some abilities which both heal and deal damage but ZoS decided to nerf them to underwhelming status because those skills were too much fun and absolutely nobody complained about them.

Ritual of retribution? Sweeps? Purifying ritual? Are underwhelming? Lol

de_la_Dude · November 2019

Ilision wrote: »

daim wrote: »

Level up with damage skills ? Level healing skills on the side. I don't get what's the problem ?

The problems are exactly what I have said. This is not just about the leveling process but also about the end game. If I am 100% healer, I am unable to complete quests unless I swap some of the skills for damage.

If you cant complete quests with your healer build the problem is not the game.
If you can't be bothered to swap skills based on the content the problem is not the game.

Try harder.

Contaminate · November 2019

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

There are technically some abilities which both heal and deal damage but ZoS decided to nerf them to underwhelming status because those skills were too much fun and absolutely nobody complained about them.

Ritual of retribution? Sweeps? Purifying ritual? Are underwhelming? Lol

I just want you to look at that list and understand that all of them are locked to a single class

OG_Kaveman · November 2019

Contaminate wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

There are technically some abilities which both heal and deal damage but ZoS decided to nerf them to underwhelming status because those skills were too much fun and absolutely nobody complained about them.

Ritual of retribution? Sweeps? Purifying ritual? Are underwhelming? Lol

I just want you to look at that list and understand that all of them are locked to a single class

Swallow soul is underwhelming? Sap essance is underwhelming? Burning embers is underwhelming? Crit surge is underwhelming? Etc etc, just because I couldn't be asrsed to list all the skills I lists once already in this thread, doesn't mean they're not there.

Not to mention, the fact that the op is a Templar, so those skills are the most applicable to them.

Lady_Linux · November 2019

your vampire stick, aka restoration staff, properly imbued with the correct trait will in fact heal you while it does damage. just use HA

EBK · November 2019

Can we have damage skills that also do healing?

starkerealm · November 2019

Ilision wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Ilision wrote: »

daim wrote: »

Level up with damage skills ? Level healing skills on the side. I don't get what's the problem ?

The problems are exactly what I have said. This is not just about the leveling process but also about the end game. If I am 100% healer, I am unable to complete quests unless I swap some of the skills for damage.

That is by design. If you want to level up outside of a group setting you must slot damage skills. Healing enemies to death makes zero sense. Pls don’t give ZoS anymore bad ideas.

I am not saying that they have to take this literally but technically, my healing skills should be damaging to bad guys. Just a thought.

No? I mean, maybe they should be damaging to undead, but any other foe should be healed by your healing spells.

Juhasow · November 2019

Ilision wrote: »

Pyr0xyrecuprotite wrote: »

Ilision wrote: »

daim wrote: »

Level up with damage skills ? Level healing skills on the side. I don't get what's the problem ?

The problems are exactly what I have said. This is not just about the leveling process but also about the end game. If I am 100% healer, I am unable to complete quests unless I swap some of the skills for damage.

The only time when you will need a full heal/buff setup of skills should be in 12-person trials. In 4P group content, healers should be prepared to be doing damage at least some of the time (the more damage everyone in the group does, the faster you complete the dungeon as a team); and in solo content MOST of your skills should be damage-focused. (The latter applies to tanks too). This means that you need a lot of skill points to keep a lot of different skills unlocked (plus get the passives in various skill lines). Then, swap to an appropriate gear and skills setup depending on the content. An addon like "Dressing Room Reborn" makes this pretty easy on PC; console users have a tougher time though.

This is definitely a reason why we should have multiple skill bars and not just two I do not mind changing between them but stopping and re-slotting the ones I need from a dungeon to trial to solo gameplay is annoying and waste of time IMHO.

Yes lets rebalance whole game because some random person on forum finds it hard to spend 10 seconds slotting 1 or 2 skills on bar once in a while.

Contaminate · November 2019

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

There are technically some abilities which both heal and deal damage but ZoS decided to nerf them to underwhelming status because those skills were too much fun and absolutely nobody complained about them.

Ritual of retribution? Sweeps? Purifying ritual? Are underwhelming? Lol

I just want you to look at that list and understand that all of them are locked to a single class

Swallow soul is underwhelming? Sap essance is underwhelming? Burning embers is underwhelming? Crit surge is underwhelming? Etc etc, just because I couldn't be asrsed to list all the skills I lists once already in this thread, doesn't mean they're not there.

Not to mention, the fact that the op is a Templar, so those skills are the most applicable to them.

In context, yes for the most part.

Swallow soul is underwhelming? Yes, it doesn’t heal anyone but the caster. The other morph does nearly no damage so the heal is unfortunately also rather negligible. Funnel health was a good offensive healing skill before the 50% damage nerf.

Sap essance is underwhelming? It’s alright as a self heal in larger enemy groups, but very costly and offers minimal benefit to other players. If the buffs were shared with allies hit and it didn’t rely so much on having large enemy swarms to fight within (which rarely happens in boss fights) then it would be pretty useful.

Burning embers is underwhelming? Yes, it doesn’t heal other players at all. If it applied lifesteal or had some ambient buff effect attached to group members doing damage to affected enemies then it would be a nice offensive utility tool.

Crit surge is underwhelming? Yes, it doesn’t heal other players at all. Power Surge would be a decent offensive healing tool if it didn’t have such a lengthy cooldown, or if it relied on crit damage to proc instead of crit heals.

Currently only Templar has the potential to deal high damage while providing significant dps too. I’d like to see more classes being able to offer the same thing, or at least more group utility without completely having to forgo damage.

I haven’t forgotten when the balance team called Refreshing Path overloaded because it healed a bit and dealt a bit of damage and had a speed buff over a small area, while also keeping RoR as a healing, damage dealing, instant minor self-purge, potent ally purge, and a massive snaring area.

Just smells of shortsightedness to me. More abilities should have multiple points of utility.

idk · November 2019

ruengdet2515 wrote: »

I want to know how much time for pure healer to complete vMA?

A skilled pure healer can clear vMA just as fast as anyone in their class. Just like anyone else that does vMA regularly they would change their build to one that works well in vMA.

It really is that simple. Heck, Back when vDSA was new I used a different build for that instance than I did for healing trials. Pretty much any serious healer went 50/50 when healing vDSA since most experienced groups need very little healing in there. It is not unusual for me to see top trial healers to dish out some dps when in dungeons either.

OG_Kaveman · November 2019

Swallow soul is underwhelming? Yes, it doesn’t heal anyone but the caster. The other morph does nearly no damage so the heal is unfortunately also rather negligible. Funnel health was a good offensive healing skill before the 50% damage nerf.

that is the point of this thread though, to heal yourself though dpsing. the rest of your "rebuttal" is hinged on this concept and the thread is NOT about that. it for self heals while killing things. which all the skill i have listed do. really, it looks like you are looking for any reason to complain about the game. why are you still playing.

Contaminate · November 2019

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Swallow soul is underwhelming? Yes, it doesn’t heal anyone but the caster. The other morph does nearly no damage so the heal is unfortunately also rather negligible. Funnel health was a good offensive healing skill before the 50% damage nerf.

that is the point of this thread though, to heal yourself though dpsing. the rest of your "rebuttal" is hinged on this concept and the thread is NOT about that. it for self heals while killing things. which all the skill i have listed do. really, it looks like you are looking for any reason to complain about the game. why are you still playing.

I’m not sure you’ve actually read the first couple posts then if that’s what impression you’re under. This thread is very obviously about ally-healing skills that do damage, considering this is what the OP says in the second post when someone misinterpreted the thread as asking for more self-healing abilities:

Ilision wrote: »

There are plenty of self healing skills but what I am talking about is as a healer I should be able to level as one also and not rely on the off-hand bar or the DPS skills to do damage.

Also I’m not sure what your mission is, if someone suggesting how the game could be made more fun and healing more interesting makes you claim they just hate everything and should go away.

OG_Kaveman · November 2019

Contaminate wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Swallow soul is underwhelming? Yes, it doesn’t heal anyone but the caster. The other morph does nearly no damage so the heal is unfortunately also rather negligible. Funnel health was a good offensive healing skill before the 50% damage nerf.

that is the point of this thread though, to heal yourself though dpsing. the rest of your "rebuttal" is hinged on this concept and the thread is NOT about that. it for self heals while killing things. which all the skill i have listed do. really, it looks like you are looking for any reason to complain about the game. why are you still playing.

I’m not sure you’ve actually read the first couple posts then if that’s what impression you’re under. This thread is very obviously about ally-healing skills that do damage, considering this is what the OP says in the second post when someone misinterpreted the thread as asking for more self-healing abilities:

Ilision wrote: »

There are plenty of self healing skills but what I am talking about is as a healer I should be able to level as one also and not rely on the off-hand bar or the DPS skills to do damage.

Also I’m not sure what your mission is, if someone suggesting how the game could be made more fun and healing more interesting makes you claim they just hate everything and should go away.

Mission? Am I an astronaut? I just see people complaining all the time and am like, are you used to being abused or something? Because if something made me that mad about it, I would just stop playing. It is that simple, there are tons of other games to play.

Literally the first post-

So, I am leveling another healer and I have noticed that I have to sacrifice some of the healing skills for damage ones while leveling. Can we not just heal enemies to death? Why is this not a thing?

"Leveling" implys solo play. As in no group. So they only need to be themselves. And there are plenty of good options to do that in the game.

Kolzki · November 2019

Dual use healing/damage skills tend to cause balance problems. Hence nerfs to twilight matriarch and the old path of darkness.

Take the old magblade meta. They were’t only the pve DD meta because of their damage output. Their off healing while doing damage was amazing.

Contaminate · November 2019

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Swallow soul is underwhelming? Yes, it doesn’t heal anyone but the caster. The other morph does nearly no damage so the heal is unfortunately also rather negligible. Funnel health was a good offensive healing skill before the 50% damage nerf.

that is the point of this thread though, to heal yourself though dpsing. the rest of your "rebuttal" is hinged on this concept and the thread is NOT about that. it for self heals while killing things. which all the skill i have listed do. really, it looks like you are looking for any reason to complain about the game. why are you still playing.

I’m not sure you’ve actually read the first couple posts then if that’s what impression you’re under. This thread is very obviously about ally-healing skills that do damage, considering this is what the OP says in the second post when someone misinterpreted the thread as asking for more self-healing abilities:

Ilision wrote: »

There are plenty of self healing skills but what I am talking about is as a healer I should be able to level as one also and not rely on the off-hand bar or the DPS skills to do damage.

Also I’m not sure what your mission is, if someone suggesting how the game could be made more fun and healing more interesting makes you claim they just hate everything and should go away.

Mission? Am I an astronaut? I just see people complaining all the time and am like, are you used to being abused or something? Because if something made me that mad about it, I would just stop playing. It is that simple, there are tons of other games to play.

Literally the first post-

So, I am leveling another healer and I have noticed that I have to sacrifice some of the healing skills for damage ones while leveling. Can we not just heal enemies to death? Why is this not a thing?

"Leveling" implys solo play. As in no group. So they only need to be themselves. And there are plenty of good options to do that in the game.

You quoted the first post, which was clarified before even your first post in this thread. You’ll have to forgive me for believing you didn’t actually understand the topic correctly due to not reading the original post and almost immediate clarifying post.

Also it’s a bit of an exaggeration to call it “abuse” just because it’s a slight annoyance having no appealing damage/healing hybrid spells outside the Templar class. I hardly see anyone trying to riot about this in the thread. The biggest issue have already driven a lot of dedicate players away, no need to bite the hands of the ones still with a bit of hope

Lady_Linux · November 2019

So what you're saying is nerf sorc?

Finedaible · November 2019

Contaminate wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

There are technically some abilities which both heal and deal damage but ZoS decided to nerf them to underwhelming status because those skills were too much fun and absolutely nobody complained about them.

Ritual of retribution? Sweeps? Purifying ritual? Are underwhelming? Lol

I just want you to look at that list and understand that all of them are locked to a single class

Swallow soul is underwhelming? Sap essance is underwhelming? Burning embers is underwhelming? Crit surge is underwhelming? Etc etc, just because I couldn't be asrsed to list all the skills I lists once already in this thread, doesn't mean they're not there.

Not to mention, the fact that the op is a Templar, so those skills are the most applicable to them.

In context, yes for the most part.

Swallow soul is underwhelming? Yes, it doesn’t heal anyone but the caster. The other morph does nearly no damage so the heal is unfortunately also rather negligible. Funnel health was a good offensive healing skill before the 50% damage nerf.

Sap essance is underwhelming? It’s alright as a self heal in larger enemy groups, but very costly and offers minimal benefit to other players. If the buffs were shared with allies hit and it didn’t rely so much on having large enemy swarms to fight within (which rarely happens in boss fights) then it would be pretty useful.

Burning embers is underwhelming? Yes, it doesn’t heal other players at all. If it applied lifesteal or had some ambient buff effect attached to group members doing damage to affected enemies then it would be a nice offensive utility tool.

Crit surge is underwhelming? Yes, it doesn’t heal other players at all. Power Surge would be a decent offensive healing tool if it didn’t have such a lengthy cooldown, or if it relied on crit damage to proc instead of crit heals.

Currently only Templar has the potential to deal high damage while providing significant dps too. I’d like to see more classes being able to offer the same thing, or at least more group utility without completely having to forgo damage.

I haven’t forgotten when the balance team called Refreshing Path overloaded because it healed a bit and dealt a bit of damage and had a speed buff over a small area, while also keeping RoR as a healing, damage dealing, instant minor self-purge, potent ally purge, and a massive snaring area.

Just smells of shortsightedness to me. More abilities should have multiple points of utility.

Agreed. I remember when Nightblade Healers' whole identity WAS healing through damaging enemies, now it's either heal or dps.

BaiterOfZergs · November 2019

Think a few skills that heals allies but do damage to enemies is actually a good idea, ritual of retribution somewhat works like that. If implemented in a balanced way it could be good.