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Global auction house verses limited traders
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Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pretty much an AH is not going to happen in this game in any form as the devs stated the reasons they purposely chose this the guild based trading over an central AH and some of those reason directly concerned the AH itself.
I understand and respect those who prefer a different system for various aspects of the game. However, there are some things the devs should hold true to their vision if it is working fine for the game and this trading system seems to do that just fine though only Zos can see the actual numbers of the millions of gold traded each day vis guild traders.
I'm willing to bet anything that 80% or more people ignore trading entirely in this game. If a system isn't being used by the majority of players in the game, your "vision" needs to change and adapt.
You are probably right as 80% of those who have purchased the game have probably not logged in over the past few months. Heck, it could also be 80% of the player base of any MMORPG rarely deals with or never deals with an AH in any given month.
The reality is you are just tossing out numbers without any basis for how you came up with those numbers making it pretty meaningless. Hence your reason that Zos needs to change needs to change and adapt is really you not wanting to change and adapt. Nothing more and nothing less.
IMO zer0_sum was referring to 80% of the active player base. Also we all have to generalize and my optioned estimates at numbers as ZOS keeps some much of that information secret. A good portion the readers know this yet you like to muddy the waters on points like this.
Your same reasoning can be applied to Combat System changes for PvP balance as only a small portion of the actual players participate in PvP. The greater portion only care about PvE. Yet who is being catered to?4 -
AndyMac✭✭✭✭✭The ZOS trading model puts other players and whatever entry rules they come up with between the player base and the market.
The gatekeepers add no real value beyond a weekly trader bid.
So why are they there at all?
I’ve been in trading guilds pretty much forever so I can work with the system as is - but I’d much prefer a GW2 model where the market access is just a UI you can pull up when you have something to sell. Or not. Up to me.
The main argument against is that an AH can be manipulated- but with TTC showing prices across the server, that’s already easy enough.
If some hot item has been listed below market price, good luck getting there first to buy it.Andymac - Magicka DK - EP Grand Overlord - Flawless Conqueror2 -
MrGarlic✭✭✭✭✭
✭The biggest peeve I have with the current system is that not everybody has access to sell items.
That, in my view, is a big failure in the present market trading system.
Give everyone access to every guild trader spot and the guild who owns the stall can set a tax rate for non-guild members and that problem is solved.'Sharp Arrows'Mr.GarlicHidden by darkness, a shadow in the night,A sped arrow dissecting the gloom,Finding it's target, such delight.8 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The biggest peeve I have with the current system is that not everybody has access to sell items.
Then you shouldn't have any problem because everybody does have access to sell items.
Open the guild finder and apply to some trading guilds, ask your friends if you can join their guilds, go into zone chat and say "Looking for a trading guild to join." Hell, just sell your items right there in zone chat if you want."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."2 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »People are sick of it because It's never going to happen. The game is 5 years old and there's no incentive at all to please a very small portion of the player base that wants the game to be WoW. The guild trader system was created and used for a reason and if it was that much of a deterrent or a detriment I think by now it'd be changed.
Maybe instead of just labeling everyone that replies to you as a troll and poisoning the well you should listen to their answers. You're trying to compare the guild trader system to capitalism when in reality you're asking for a more capitalist system. Access to everyone doesn't mean access to wealth to everyone. You're still going to have the same trade flippers and market manipulators you're just going to give them access to all of the items at once which mean more people will do that. Prices don't go down in this situation, people low ball each other for 1gold lower to entice buyers and all the time you spend (ya know like a minute) jumping zone to zone you get to spend double the time multiple times a day repricing your items because they are lost in a sea of listings and undercutting competitors.
First off, this is your opinion and not facts. Changes have been made to the sacred tablets and yet may again. Without ZOS doing a regular survey of the active player base, then NO ONE can say as a fact that this is what is wanted by the player base. A survey grants the greatest chance of a play opinion snapshot.
Again original intent was only being able to sell & buy within the guilds you belonged to. Players made it known they preferred a GAH, ZOS changed to adding in the Trader System.
Again your opinion and you are making a lot of assumptions of how a majority of players would use it.
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JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭EternalDiva wrote: »Global auction house
1) buyers and sellers only as limited as the realm (or server) you are playing on. Potentially hundreds or thousands of players.
2) auction houses are located in every city and the goods can be accessed from anyone of them. No hoping from city to city, or down beaten path to find what you need.
3) The auction house does take a small fee for items sold on auction house. But you do not pay anyone else for access.
4) prices are governed by competition. Just as with a trader, if the item is limited the price may be jacked out of proportion and only the wealthiest players can afford it. On the other hand, more often, the more sellers you have the better the prices.
5) because you have access to more buyers and sellers its easier to find what you need or easily sell what you farm or create
ESO trading system
1) Limited to 5 guilds for a total of 2500 players to buy and sell from.
2) most guilds demand 150K per week to be a member. You are spending with no guarantee of getting your moneys worth. The guild owner reels in the profits.
3) guild trader also charges a fee per item
4) you will have to travel a LOT if you are looking for something that your limited 5 guilds isnt selling.
5) with less buyers your options for selling usually are not be as good as it is with a global auction house.
6) because access to buyers is limited the items generally sell for higher prices
I have used both systems for years. The global auction house is better by far. T
What I like about the global auction house THE most is that there is no highway robbery from your guild. If you belong to a guild it's about game play. Whether you stay in the guild or get kicked --it is about your game play and attitude toward others. Not about the money the guild owner wants you to provide so that they can make a profit off you.
ESO is a great game. But the trading system only works for the few. Too much like capitalism.
Id also like ESO to stop closing down legitimate conversations about this when one person gets nasty. Delete the nasty person from the thread. Don't shut down the rest of us. Because it kinda looks like you just don't want to hear a different opinion when you do that. Especially when the convo really wasn't contentious at all. Its kind of like the bully yells at the kid chatting amiably to shut up. Then instead of making the bully go away you just shush everyone. Bully wins every time.
You might not want an auction house dear ESO. But you should at least be willing to let us talk about it. And listen to what we are saying. There is nothing to be afraid of. And everything to be gained by LISTENING.
Love you!
P.s to those of you who feel threatened by people talking about auction houses or you are just "so sick of hearing about it"...stop reading things you do not like. Go away. Play your game. Leave those who do want to talk about it alone. Don't be that troll. You know that troll? The one who has no life and goes around looking for people to be rude to. If you dont like the topic go find one you do. Or make up your own!
Please, please, please, list actual names. I'm currently in 4 guilds. NONE of them, NOT ONE OF THE FOUR has ANY DUES AT ALL. Not a single gold piece is demanded. Currently all 4 have a trader. None of them have a sales requirement. When I've bothered to sell stuff, not farmed gear with special traits or whatever the fotm is, I generally end up with at least 65k for my 30 items.
So sorry, I can't really believe your apparently biased baseless opinion. Anyone can claim guild traders are outrageously expensive, all the guildmasters do is scam gold from members and all the rest of the crap the "the universe will collapse if "we" don't get a global auction house" posters come up with. Your "fact" is a fact only if you limit the buyers to people in the guilds, and that is NOT how it works. You do realize that anyone/everyone who is in the game can buy from a kiosk, right? Buyers don't have to belong to your guild. Also, going by what you said, you apparently visit only the guild stores, using the banker. Some players actually make it a point to visit the traders they pass while doing other stuff in the game. They don't limit themselves to the guilds they belong to so they can complain no one is selling what they want to buy and a global auction house would be teh bestest.
Please provide evidence for "The guild owner reels in the profits". I really need to see proof for this, because the good guilds aren't making billions of gold for the gm.
People who are tired of reading about global auction houses aren't necessarily trolls, just tired of seeing baseless slander, misinformation, and opinion presented as facts.10 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Pretty much an AH is not going to happen in this game in any form as the devs stated the reasons they purposely chose this the guild based trading over an central AH and some of those reason directly concerned the AH itself.
I understand and respect those who prefer a different system for various aspects of the game. However, there are some things the devs should hold true to their vision if it is working fine for the game and this trading system seems to do that just fine though only Zos can see the actual numbers of the millions of gold traded each day vis guild traders.
I'm willing to bet anything that 80% or more people ignore trading entirely in this game. If a system isn't being used by the majority of players in the game, your "vision" needs to change and adapt.
You are probably right as 80% of those who have purchased the game have probably not logged in over the past few months. Heck, it could also be 80% of the player base of any MMORPG rarely deals with or never deals with an AH in any given month.
The reality is you are just tossing out numbers without any basis for how you came up with those numbers making it pretty meaningless. Hence your reason that Zos needs to change needs to change and adapt is really you not wanting to change and adapt. Nothing more and nothing less.
This is going against other games with intuitive market systems. WoW's global Auction House is really a nobrainer of an auction system, as dumbed down as you can get. I.
Intuitive does not mean easy or dumbed down. One could say it is intuitive that trading be done on a social nature since that is how it has been done historically (before the internet).
Further, ESO is it's own game and should not even try to be like other games. Heck, I do not play WoW because I do not want to play a dumbed down game. Besides, ESO is not the first game to have a decentralized trading system. Just some games go with easy dumbed down things. Glad ESO does not.
You are arguing with me as though as though if you win the argument Zos will bend to your will or you just want to argue on the subject. Either way, I was merely pointed out Zos' position on the subject and really do not care that people have different opinions on any subject. The only reason I replied to you in the first place is you replied to me with baseless false information.
I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying unless the system was simplified as to not require usage of memberships to trade guilds you'd might get people to take the multiplayer aspect of the game more seriously.
Right now it seems the only guilds anyone joins aren't ones they want to be in at all. They're trade guilds for necessity.
I don't care if they charge me an extra fee to use somebody elses trader I don't want to join your useless trade guild that serves no function at all apart from the usage of a trader. That's not a guild I want to be in. Why should I be forced to join a guild just to access the trade function of the game? Why isn't there an unaffiliated trader that anyone can use?
Depends on the guild. My trading guild does skyshard runs, there are groups for pledges, some groups who love pvp... many people who pve, so :shrug: There's social stuff too, like house decorating contests. The gm and officers have a guild house with every set station in the game, target dummies, transmute station, all the mundus stones for everyone to use. So perhaps a blanket condemnation of "useless trade guild" doesn't help your point much. Are there strictly nothing but trading guilds out there? Probably. I've never run across one that offers nothing but a chance at a trading kiosk.4 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pretty much an AH is not going to happen in this game in any form as the devs stated the reasons they purposely chose this the guild based trading over an central AH and some of those reason directly concerned the AH itself.
I understand and respect those who prefer a different system for various aspects of the game. However, there are some things the devs should hold true to their vision if it is working fine for the game and this trading system seems to do that just fine though only Zos can see the actual numbers of the millions of gold traded each day vis guild traders.
I'm willing to bet anything that 80% or more people ignore trading entirely in this game. If a system isn't being used by the majority of players in the game, your "vision" needs to change and adapt.
You are probably right as 80% of those who have purchased the game have probably not logged in over the past few months. Heck, it could also be 80% of the player base of any MMORPG rarely deals with or never deals with an AH in any given month.
The reality is you are just tossing out numbers without any basis for how you came up with those numbers making it pretty meaningless. Hence your reason that Zos needs to change needs to change and adapt is really you not wanting to change and adapt. Nothing more and nothing less.
This is going against other games with intuitive market systems. WoW's global Auction House is really a nobrainer of an auction system, as dumbed down as you can get. I.
Intuitive does not mean easy or dumbed down. One could say it is intuitive that trading be done on a social nature since that is how it has been done historically (before the internet).
Further, ESO is it's own game and should not even try to be like other games. Heck, I do not play WoW because I do not want to play a dumbed down game. Besides, ESO is not the first game to have a decentralized trading system. Just some games go with easy dumbed down things. Glad ESO does not.
You are arguing with me as though as though if you win the argument Zos will bend to your will or you just want to argue on the subject. Either way, I was merely pointed out Zos' position on the subject and really do not care that people have different opinions on any subject. The only reason I replied to you in the first place is you replied to me with baseless false information.
I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying unless the system was simplified as to not require usage of memberships to trade guilds you'd might get people to take the multiplayer aspect of the game more seriously.
Right now it seems the only guilds anyone joins aren't ones they want to be in at all. They're trade guilds for necessity.
I don't care if they charge me an extra fee to use somebody elses trader I don't want to join your useless trade guild that serves no function at all apart from the usage of a trader. That's not a guild I want to be in. Why should I be forced to join a guild just to access the trade function of the game? Why isn't there an unaffiliated trader that anyone can use?
You have to be in 5 trading guilds to be able to trade in this game? I have done just fine and have never been in more than one trading guild at a time.
I am in 2 raiding guilds and a social guild as well. One of the guilds will get a cheap trader if they can get it for the bare minimum big but that is clearly not an attempt at being a trading guild.
Your argument does not reflect how things actually work in game and seems more like grasping at straws to try to make an argument.
As I said earlier I really do not care. I merely pointed out Zos stated reasons why they chose this over an AH and that still holds true today. I doubt they have any interest in changing it so I suggest you either figure out how to use it or maybe go to WoW or GW since you seem to prefer their trading systems.
Ok, so that's a stretch to deflect it was meant as 5 guilds in order to discredit. Yes, we all choose what aspects of the game we want to play. Some it is heavy into trading and others no trading. The system needs adjustment to fit better with the players.
I'll paste this next part as I answered you before: At the time that this statement was made you could only sell and BUY from the guilds you belonged to. This was part of the reasoning on why have 5 guilds. Players rejected it, GAH was first proposed by players at that time and ZOS changed their original intent to adding in the Trader System as we know it. Even the intent of the bidding system has evolved.
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Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭The biggest peeve I have with the current system is that not everybody has access to sell items.
Then you shouldn't have any problem because everybody does have access to sell items.
Open the guild finder and apply to some trading guilds, ask your friends if you can join their guilds, go into zone chat and say "Looking for a trading guild to join." Hell, just sell your items right there in zone chat if you want.
Sleek deflection. IMO the OP was saying equal access to openly sell to all within the game.
Your suggestion has limits in that there can only be 500 members in a guild, they have to be willing to accept you and you the conditions they place on you. Even fewer guilds can have a trader to openly sell their goods on a 24/7 access point.
Before someone chimes in about MTS in chat. It is not the same access as a 24/7 access point of sale which has no having to on in the right zone, at the right time to make the connection to a buyer looking at the right time.2 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You’d have to be some sort of diva to start a new thread in the face of hundreds of other threads on this very exact same topic ... oh wait ...5 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pretty much an AH is not going to happen in this game in any form as the devs stated the reasons they purposely chose this the guild based trading over an central AH and some of those reason directly concerned the AH itself.
I understand and respect those who prefer a different system for various aspects of the game. However, there are some things the devs should hold true to their vision if it is working fine for the game and this trading system seems to do that just fine though only Zos can see the actual numbers of the millions of gold traded each day vis guild traders.
At the time that this statement was made you could only sell and BUY from the guilds you belonged to. This was part of the reasoning on why have 5 guilds. Players rejected it, GAH was first proposed by players at that time and ZOS changed their original intent to adding in the Trader System as we know it. Even the intent of the bidding system has evolved.
They evolved their intent on these aspects, there is nothing to say that they can not evolve further. Now that there is context you can see it is a set in stone system that will never be changeable.
You are leaving out very important information (or forgot about it) which makes your statement untrue.
Before the game launched Zos made clear a means to buy from guilds other than ones we were members of and that was in place when the game launched. The kiosks that guilds could claim were via keeps in Cyroiil. Zos basically acknowledged this was not sufficient and changed up how that worked to make it more accessible.
I do not recall this huge revolt of players rejecting it that you do. I do not recall anything outside of threads like this that by no means suggest players en masse are rejecting anything about the trading system.4 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »No. ESO's system makes trading and visiting places all over the Tamriel worthwhile.
I know some of you love it because you get more from it because of its limits, but it doesn't make visiting places the slightest bit more worthwhile. Unless you like visiting places to waste your time and accomplish nothing since the vendor is almost guaranteed to not have anything you want at a good price.PC
PS4/PS55 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭redgreensunset wrote: »As for an AH? Listen, the servers can barely handle the players that are on it on PC/EU, an AH would kill it completely and would likely kill the other servers too with the added strain. or that reason alone this is getting a no from me. But even without it'd still be a no. I enjoy that ESO is doing something different than an AH which was always a terrible idea to begin with apart from making zero sense in a fantasy setting.
We get stuffed mailed to us. It makes infinite sense, though I think you realized that given your edit.
I don't see how the server load would be any difference. You only have to load a list of things, not entire zones.PC
PS4/PS53 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pretty much an AH is not going to happen in this game in any form as the devs stated the reasons they purposely chose this the guild based trading over an central AH and some of those reason directly concerned the AH itself.
I understand and respect those who prefer a different system for various aspects of the game. However, there are some things the devs should hold true to their vision if it is working fine for the game and this trading system seems to do that just fine though only Zos can see the actual numbers of the millions of gold traded each day vis guild traders.
I'm willing to bet anything that 80% or more people ignore trading entirely in this game. If a system isn't being used by the majority of players in the game, your "vision" needs to change and adapt.
You are probably right as 80% of those who have purchased the game have probably not logged in over the past few months. Heck, it could also be 80% of the player base of any MMORPG rarely deals with or never deals with an AH in any given month.
The reality is you are just tossing out numbers without any basis for how you came up with those numbers making it pretty meaningless. Hence your reason that Zos needs to change needs to change and adapt is really you not wanting to change and adapt. Nothing more and nothing less.
This is going against other games with intuitive market systems. WoW's global Auction House is really a nobrainer of an auction system, as dumbed down as you can get. I.
Intuitive does not mean easy or dumbed down. One could say it is intuitive that trading be done on a social nature since that is how it has been done historically (before the internet).
Further, ESO is it's own game and should not even try to be like other games. Heck, I do not play WoW because I do not want to play a dumbed down game. Besides, ESO is not the first game to have a decentralized trading system. Just some games go with easy dumbed down things. Glad ESO does not.
You are arguing with me as though as though if you win the argument Zos will bend to your will or you just want to argue on the subject. Either way, I was merely pointed out Zos' position on the subject and really do not care that people have different opinions on any subject. The only reason I replied to you in the first place is you replied to me with baseless false information.
I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying unless the system was simplified as to not require usage of memberships to trade guilds you'd might get people to take the multiplayer aspect of the game more seriously.
Right now it seems the only guilds anyone joins aren't ones they want to be in at all. They're trade guilds for necessity.
I don't care if they charge me an extra fee to use somebody elses trader I don't want to join your useless trade guild that serves no function at all apart from the usage of a trader. That's not a guild I want to be in. Why should I be forced to join a guild just to access the trade function of the game? Why isn't there an unaffiliated trader that anyone can use?
You have to be in 5 trading guilds to be able to trade in this game? I have done just fine and have never been in more than one trading guild at a time.
I am in 2 raiding guilds and a social guild as well. One of the guilds will get a cheap trader if they can get it for the bare minimum big but that is clearly not an attempt at being a trading guild.
Your argument does not reflect how things actually work in game and seems more like grasping at straws to try to make an argument.
As I said earlier I really do not care. I merely pointed out Zos stated reasons why they chose this over an AH and that still holds true today. I doubt they have any interest in changing it so I suggest you either figure out how to use it or maybe go to WoW or GW since you seem to prefer their trading systems.
Ok, so that's a stretch to deflect it was meant as 5 guilds in order to discredit.
Who Nelly, You really need to go and read what I quoted before you go twisting things like this in an attempt to caste shade. It is you that is going to great lengths to discredit with such absurd statements.Pretty much an AH is not going to happen in this game in any form as the devs stated the reasons they purposely chose this the guild based trading over an central AH and some of those reason directly concerned the AH itself.
I understand and respect those who prefer a different system for various aspects of the game. However, there are some things the devs should hold true to their vision if it is working fine for the game and this trading system seems to do that just fine though only Zos can see the actual numbers of the millions of gold traded each day vis guild traders.
I'm willing to bet anything that 80% or more people ignore trading entirely in this game. If a system isn't being used by the majority of players in the game, your "vision" needs to change and adapt.
You are probably right as 80% of those who have purchased the game have probably not logged in over the past few months. Heck, it could also be 80% of the player base of any MMORPG rarely deals with or never deals with an AH in any given month.
The reality is you are just tossing out numbers without any basis for how you came up with those numbers making it pretty meaningless. Hence your reason that Zos needs to change needs to change and adapt is really you not wanting to change and adapt. Nothing more and nothing less.
This is going against other games with intuitive market systems. WoW's global Auction House is really a nobrainer of an auction system, as dumbed down as you can get. I.
Intuitive does not mean easy or dumbed down. One could say it is intuitive that trading be done on a social nature since that is how it has been done historically (before the internet).
Further, ESO is it's own game and should not even try to be like other games. Heck, I do not play WoW because I do not want to play a dumbed down game. Besides, ESO is not the first game to have a decentralized trading system. Just some games go with easy dumbed down things. Glad ESO does not.
You are arguing with me as though as though if you win the argument Zos will bend to your will or you just want to argue on the subject. Either way, I was merely pointed out Zos' position on the subject and really do not care that people have different opinions on any subject. The only reason I replied to you in the first place is you replied to me with baseless false information.
Right now it seems the only guilds anyone joins aren't ones they want to be in at all. They're trade guilds for necessity.
This is the line in what I quoted that comment was in reference to. They are strongly indicating pretty much everyone is only joining trade guilds out of necessity vs the ones they want to join.
Before you make such a bold claim I suggest you really get it together so it is not so easily invalidated. You got it so wrong.3 -
Ngh✭✭Pretty much an AH is not going to happen in this game in any form as the devs stated the reasons they purposely chose this the guild based trading over an central AH and some of those reason directly concerned the AH itself.
I understand and respect those who prefer a different system for various aspects of the game. However, there are some things the devs should hold true to their vision if it is working fine for the game and this trading system seems to do that just fine though only Zos can see the actual numbers of the millions of gold traded each day vis guild traders.
At the time that this statement was made you could only sell and BUY from the guilds you belonged to. This was part of the reasoning on why have 5 guilds. Players rejected it, GAH was first proposed by players at that time and ZOS changed their original intent to adding in the Trader System as we know it. Even the intent of the bidding system has evolved.
They evolved their intent on these aspects, there is nothing to say that they can not evolve further. Now that there is context you can see it is a set in stone system that will never be changeable.
You are leaving out very important information (or forgot about it) which makes your statement untrue.
Before the game launched Zos made clear a means to buy from guilds other than ones we were members of and that was in place when the game launched. The kiosks that guilds could claim were via keeps in Cyroiil. Zos basically acknowledged this was not sufficient and changed up how that worked to make it more accessible.
I do not recall this huge revolt of players rejecting it that you do. I do not recall anything outside of threads like this that by no means suggest players en masse are rejecting anything about the trading system.
The statement you keep referring to was made prior to update 3 which a added in the trader system from the original design. This still makes the point valid that this not some gospel tablets that can never be changed or that ZOS may never change their opinion.
We certainly saw ZOS evolve their opinion guild blacklists and grant the sorely needed tool for GM's to protect their guilds. I was told this was a lost cause, yet it was accomplished with much debate and persistence.Edited by Ngh on November 10, 2019 10:02PM0 -
Bennisphinx✭✭I don't think we should abandon ESO's guild trader system and replace it by a global auction house-like system, because it add a unique aspect to trading: do I buy something at one of the more conveniently situated traders, but pay some extra gold for that QoL improvement; or do I go out of my way to buy it from a remote trader, but save some gold in the process?
Nevertheless, I do think the current system can be improved in two ways:- Have some built-in TTC/MM functionality. Let me search for the trader who offers an item for the best price in-game, without having to rely on some external website. This would make it easier for smaller guilds to actually sell stuff, and less time consuming and frustrating for me to actually find that small guild - information on TTC is more often than not outdated.
- Have some kind of "dumping ground" for players who do not wish to join a trade guild. It could be seen as an auction house of sorts, except that it would only be accessible from a few remote spots (for example in the main alliance zones), discouraging people from leaving their guilds and/or from buying stuff there. The amount of items one can simultaneously list could also be limited to 10 (or even fewer), to further encourage people to join a trade guild. However, this addition might really help casual players who just want to sell some (high-valued) stuff periodically, without constantly having to spam zone chat with WTS offers.
Edited by Bennisphinx on November 10, 2019 10:09PM0 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pretty much an AH is not going to happen in this game in any form as the devs stated the reasons they purposely chose this the guild based trading over an central AH and some of those reason directly concerned the AH itself.
I understand and respect those who prefer a different system for various aspects of the game. However, there are some things the devs should hold true to their vision if it is working fine for the game and this trading system seems to do that just fine though only Zos can see the actual numbers of the millions of gold traded each day vis guild traders.
I'm willing to bet anything that 80% or more people ignore trading entirely in this game. If a system isn't being used by the majority of players in the game, your "vision" needs to change and adapt.
You are probably right as 80% of those who have purchased the game have probably not logged in over the past few months. Heck, it could also be 80% of the player base of any MMORPG rarely deals with or never deals with an AH in any given month.
The reality is you are just tossing out numbers without any basis for how you came up with those numbers making it pretty meaningless. Hence your reason that Zos needs to change needs to change and adapt is really you not wanting to change and adapt. Nothing more and nothing less.
This is going against other games with intuitive market systems. WoW's global Auction House is really a nobrainer of an auction system, as dumbed down as you can get. I.
Intuitive does not mean easy or dumbed down. One could say it is intuitive that trading be done on a social nature since that is how it has been done historically (before the internet).
Further, ESO is it's own game and should not even try to be like other games. Heck, I do not play WoW because I do not want to play a dumbed down game. Besides, ESO is not the first game to have a decentralized trading system. Just some games go with easy dumbed down things. Glad ESO does not.
You are arguing with me as though as though if you win the argument Zos will bend to your will or you just want to argue on the subject. Either way, I was merely pointed out Zos' position on the subject and really do not care that people have different opinions on any subject. The only reason I replied to you in the first place is you replied to me with baseless false information.
I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying unless the system was simplified as to not require usage of memberships to trade guilds you'd might get people to take the multiplayer aspect of the game more seriously.
Right now it seems the only guilds anyone joins aren't ones they want to be in at all. They're trade guilds for necessity.
I don't care if they charge me an extra fee to use somebody elses trader I don't want to join your useless trade guild that serves no function at all apart from the usage of a trader. That's not a guild I want to be in. Why should I be forced to join a guild just to access the trade function of the game? Why isn't there an unaffiliated trader that anyone can use?
You have to be in 5 trading guilds to be able to trade in this game? I have done just fine and have never been in more than one trading guild at a time.
I am in 2 raiding guilds and a social guild as well. One of the guilds will get a cheap trader if they can get it for the bare minimum big but that is clearly not an attempt at being a trading guild.
Your argument does not reflect how things actually work in game and seems more like grasping at straws to try to make an argument.
As I said earlier I really do not care. I merely pointed out Zos stated reasons why they chose this over an AH and that still holds true today. I doubt they have any interest in changing it so I suggest you either figure out how to use it or maybe go to WoW or GW since you seem to prefer their trading systems.
Ok, so that's a stretch to deflect it was meant as 5 guilds in order to discredit.
Who Nelly, You really need to go and read what I quoted before you go twisting things like this in an attempt to caste shade. It is you that is going to great lengths to discredit with such absurd statements.Pretty much an AH is not going to happen in this game in any form as the devs stated the reasons they purposely chose this the guild based trading over an central AH and some of those reason directly concerned the AH itself.
I understand and respect those who prefer a different system for various aspects of the game. However, there are some things the devs should hold true to their vision if it is working fine for the game and this trading system seems to do that just fine though only Zos can see the actual numbers of the millions of gold traded each day vis guild traders.
I'm willing to bet anything that 80% or more people ignore trading entirely in this game. If a system isn't being used by the majority of players in the game, your "vision" needs to change and adapt.
You are probably right as 80% of those who have purchased the game have probably not logged in over the past few months. Heck, it could also be 80% of the player base of any MMORPG rarely deals with or never deals with an AH in any given month.
The reality is you are just tossing out numbers without any basis for how you came up with those numbers making it pretty meaningless. Hence your reason that Zos needs to change needs to change and adapt is really you not wanting to change and adapt. Nothing more and nothing less.
This is going against other games with intuitive market systems. WoW's global Auction House is really a nobrainer of an auction system, as dumbed down as you can get. I.
Intuitive does not mean easy or dumbed down. One could say it is intuitive that trading be done on a social nature since that is how it has been done historically (before the internet).
Further, ESO is it's own game and should not even try to be like other games. Heck, I do not play WoW because I do not want to play a dumbed down game. Besides, ESO is not the first game to have a decentralized trading system. Just some games go with easy dumbed down things. Glad ESO does not.
You are arguing with me as though as though if you win the argument Zos will bend to your will or you just want to argue on the subject. Either way, I was merely pointed out Zos' position on the subject and really do not care that people have different opinions on any subject. The only reason I replied to you in the first place is you replied to me with baseless false information.
Right now it seems the only guilds anyone joins aren't ones they want to be in at all. They're trade guilds for necessity.
This is the line in what I quoted that comment was in reference to. They are strongly indicating pretty much everyone is only joining trade guilds out of necessity vs the ones they want to join.
Before you make such a bold claim I suggest you really get it together so it is not so easily invalidated. You got it so wrong.
I still do not see how you get it is 5 Guilds by that statement. It does not say how many guilds anyone wants to join, thus why I see it is deflection on your part to assume it means all 5. edit: see not sawEdited by Grimm13 on November 10, 2019 10:11PM1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pretty much an AH is not going to happen in this game in any form as the devs stated the reasons they purposely chose this the guild based trading over an central AH and some of those reason directly concerned the AH itself.
I understand and respect those who prefer a different system for various aspects of the game. However, there are some things the devs should hold true to their vision if it is working fine for the game and this trading system seems to do that just fine though only Zos can see the actual numbers of the millions of gold traded each day vis guild traders.
At the time that this statement was made you could only sell and BUY from the guilds you belonged to. This was part of the reasoning on why have 5 guilds. Players rejected it, GAH was first proposed by players at that time and ZOS changed their original intent to adding in the Trader System as we know it. Even the intent of the bidding system has evolved.
They evolved their intent on these aspects, there is nothing to say that they can not evolve further. Now that there is context you can see it is a set in stone system that will never be changeable.
You are leaving out very important information (or forgot about it) which makes your statement untrue.
Before the game launched Zos made clear a means to buy from guilds other than ones we were members of and that was in place when the game launched. The kiosks that guilds could claim were via keeps in Cyroiil. Zos basically acknowledged this was not sufficient and changed up how that worked to make it more accessible.
I do not recall this huge revolt of players rejecting it that you do. I do not recall anything outside of threads like this that by no means suggest players en masse are rejecting anything about the trading system.
The statement you keep referring to was made prior to update 3 which a added in the trader system from the original design. This still makes my point valid that this not some gospel tablets that can never be changed or that ZOS may never change their opinion.
We certainly saw ZOS evolve their opinion guild blacklists and grant the sorely needed tool for GM's to protect their guilds. I was told this was a lost cause, yet it was accomplished with much debate and persistence.
First, Zos had guild traders in the game when it launched and they made the statement concerning that before the game launched as I said. There were tied to Cyrodiil keep ownership.
Zos revised the system to make it more accessible and I assume you are merely explaining that revision occurred in update 3, which again, I assume you are speaking of update 1.3 as update three happened about 2 years later. But that is splitting hairs.
The comparison at the end is not very relative. It is comparing an entire system to a mere tweak to an existing system. It is also comparing something Zos appeared passionate about vs something trivial. Meaning I doubt Zos felt very passionate over a little guild management tool. That is not even close enough to say it is comparing apples to oranges.2 -
redgreensunset✭✭✭✭✭
✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »redgreensunset wrote: »As for an AH? Listen, the servers can barely handle the players that are on it on PC/EU, an AH would kill it completely and would likely kill the other servers too with the added strain. or that reason alone this is getting a no from me. But even without it'd still be a no. I enjoy that ESO is doing something different than an AH which was always a terrible idea to begin with apart from making zero sense in a fantasy setting.
We get stuffed mailed to us. It makes infinite sense, though I think you realized that given your edit.
I don't see how the server load would be any difference. You only have to load a list of things, not entire zones.
Obviously this is making some assumptions on how the underlying database and information is built but as it is right now when you search in a guild store you search only among the postings in that one guild. Which is at max capacity 500*30=15000 entries. With a GA it'd search in everything posted by anyone. Even at max 30 items posted per account and assuming that no more people start trading than is trading now - which I think would be a pretty safe assumption since so many trading guilds with trader and no dues or donations aren't at capacity - then it is still an enormous increase in the data the system have to a) search in and then b) retrieve from.
Well we've all seen how the system does with information retrieval when load increases. *points aggressively to PC/EU, especially as it's been in the last few weeks*
And you're going to tell me that this increase in constantly having to search in much larger databases and by that I mean much, much larger, wouldn't have an impact on overall server performance? *Laughs in PC/EU* Okay, mate, okay. Nice joke.2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭A global auction house is infinitely better for the populous as a whole. It is better for the game, works as a gold sink. The same issues that plague GAH plague guild traders.
The reason ZO$ went with the guild trader model is that they can keep more gold out of the system, its harder for the average player to make gold. (in before the 5 guild trader, 5 year 18 toon max crafted, 3 account crafting people come in and say "its easy to make gold".
If you note, much of what is available for gold is also offered on the crown store. The goal is to drive players to the crown store, you don't do that when gold making is easy. Central/Global auction house makes it easier for the masses to make gold.
Is global auction house better, yes and its not even contestable...but it will never change because ZO$ cares more about taking your money then offering you fun.5 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"1) Limited to 5 guilds for a total of 2500 players to buy and sell from.
2) most guilds demand 150K per week to be a member. You are spending with no guarantee of getting your moneys worth. The guild owner reels in the profits."
Those two are just flat out lies. If you have to start your comparison/argument with lies then there really isn't any discussion to be had.
What we need is a few improvements on the current system. For many players the trader aspect of the game is their favorite part.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."5 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Global auction house...
...is never going to happen. [elsa]Let it go.[/elsa]
Yes, the trader system sucks in general. But it's ingrained in the game, and it's a massive gold sink. It's not going to change, no matter how much you want it to.
(I love a global auction house. But I'm also realistic in my expectations.)Edited by Kiralyn2000 on November 11, 2019 12:33AM2 -
PieMaster1✭✭✭✭I would really like a global auction house. I can never sell things, people in chat never respond and i literally cannot sell anything unless i join some stupid guild wanting 10k gold every week. And that only gives you access to one guild seller! What if i want to sell in 5 areas? I have to pay 50k a week or more?5
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EchoirVarsoj✭✭There's no room for eso to swap to a global auction system.
Traders system have its cons but it's cooler.
There's place to find deals with any random trader. A global auction system bring automating, so every deal, every valuated items gets scooped up instantly.
Current system has some space to slow market manipulators moves. In eso, every city has its local market ecosystem.
In a global action system if manipulators are on their mood, we'll end having to play their game. And so on.
ESO needs tweaks according to it's traders system not replicate every other mmo's market system.2 -
p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭EternalDiva wrote: »Global auction house
......
Love you!
.......
P.s to those of you who feel threatened by people talking about auction houses or you are just "so sick of hearing about it"...stop reading things you do not like. Go away. Play your game. Leave those who do want to talk about it alone. Don't be that troll. You know that troll? The one who has no life and goes around looking for people to be rude to. If you dont like the topic go find one you do. Or make up your own!
Seems you are the one feeling threatened by those who put down coherent opinion that current system should be left intact.
TTC already is a form of Auction House considering that already the negative aspects are added to the game with it.
That of not been able to find bargains any more for personal usage and everything has same inflated price.2 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The number of trading spots is limited and the number of traders is constantly growing. Imagine joining a trading guild, paying 15k a week, and then not getting a trading spot.
I make millions from traders and I know I'd rather have a central auction house, accessible from any capital city like your bank.
It wont crash the economy. It'll let more people participate in it.
It wont hurt socialization, as there's still billions of reasons to join guilds in this game. (social, pvp, pve)
Trading guilds have to actively fight against other guilds to get top spots. This is great if you're on top. Or you could be a mid-tier guild with no trader 50% of the time because blind bidding screws you out of your spot because a bigger guild lost their first 3 choices.
If WOW can do it with millions of people I dont see a problem with giving everyone 20-30 spots once they've hit level 20 on their account.2 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »EternalDiva wrote: »Global auction house
1) buyers and sellers only as limited as the realm (or server) you are playing on. Potentially hundreds or thousands of players.
2) auction houses are located in every city and the goods can be accessed from anyone of them. No hoping from city to city, or down beaten path to find what you need.
3) The auction house does take a small fee for items sold on auction house. But you do not pay anyone else for access.
4) prices are governed by competition. Just as with a trader, if the item is limited the price may be jacked out of proportion and only the wealthiest players can afford it. On the other hand, more often, the more sellers you have the better the prices.
5) because you have access to more buyers and sellers its easier to find what you need or easily sell what you farm or create
ESO trading system
1) Limited to 5 guilds for a total of 2500 players to buy and sell from.
2) most guilds demand 150K per week to be a member. You are spending with no guarantee of getting your moneys worth. The guild owner reels in the profits.
3) guild trader also charges a fee per item
4) you will have to travel a LOT if you are looking for something that your limited 5 guilds isnt selling.
5) with less buyers your options for selling usually are not be as good as it is with a global auction house.
6) because access to buyers is limited the items generally sell for higher prices
I have used both systems for years. The global auction house is better by far. T
What I like about the global auction house THE most is that there is no highway robbery from your guild. If you belong to a guild it's about game play. Whether you stay in the guild or get kicked --it is about your game play and attitude toward others. Not about the money the guild owner wants you to provide so that they can make a profit off you.
ESO is a great game. But the trading system only works for the few. Too much like capitalism.
Id also like ESO to stop closing down legitimate conversations about this when one person gets nasty. Delete the nasty person from the thread. Don't shut down the rest of us. Because it kinda looks like you just don't want to hear a different opinion when you do that. Especially when the convo really wasn't contentious at all. Its kind of like the bully yells at the kid chatting amiably to shut up. Then instead of making the bully go away you just shush everyone. Bully wins every time.
You might not want an auction house dear ESO. But you should at least be willing to let us talk about it. And listen to what we are saying. There is nothing to be afraid of. And everything to be gained by LISTENING.
Love you!
P.s to those of you who feel threatened by people talking about auction houses or you are just "so sick of hearing about it"...stop reading things you do not like. Go away. Play your game. Leave those who do want to talk about it alone. Don't be that troll. You know that troll? The one who has no life and goes around looking for people to be rude to. If you dont like the topic go find one you do. Or make up your own!
Do we really need another of these? AH are too easy to manipulate and guilds are going to devolve into WoW style guilds (PVP/PVE Endgame only). If I wanted this I'd just buy WoW classic and relive doing all of this like it was 2006. The guild owner also doesn't "make a profit off you". That's fundamentally misunderstanding the trader system for an easier to use and far inferior AH system. I'm not in any guilds that charge 150k per week, you're confusing the majority of trading guilds with the top 1% in Rawl'kha and their dues. Those aren't normal.
P.s to those of you who feel threatened by people talking about auction houses or you are just "so sick of hearing about it"...stop reading things you do not like. Go away. Play your game. Leave those who do want to talk about it alone. Don't be that troll. You know that troll? The one who has no life and goes around looking for people to be rude to. If you dont like the topic go find one you do. Or make up your own!
People are sick of it because It's never going to happen. The game is 5 years old and there's no incentive at all to please a very small portion of the player base that wants the game to be WoW. The guild trader system was created and used for a reason and if it was that much of a deterrent or a detriment I think by now it'd be changed.
Maybe instead of just labeling everyone that replies to you as a troll and poisoning the well you should listen to their answers. You're trying to compare the guild trader system to capitalism when in reality you're asking for a more capitalist system. Access to everyone doesn't mean access to wealth to everyone. You're still going to have the same trade flippers and market manipulators you're just going to give them access to all of the items at once which mean more people will do that. Prices don't go down in this situation, people low ball each other for 1gold lower to entice buyers and all the time you spend (ya know like a minute) jumping zone to zone you get to spend double the time multiple times a day repricing your items because they are lost in a sea of listings and undercutting competitors.
In the end the summarization was the same since launch:
The current system isn't intuitive to new players, it's a hard system of trading to grasp and requires far more effort into which traders to use, what city to use, what trade guild to join that has that based purely on the items you have *now*. Many of us don't give a crap about making top gold off it. I just want to sell off my excess stuff to make more than crap vendor costs.
And as of now:
What's wrong with guilds devolving that way? I'd consider it a vast improvement. There are only 2 types of Guilds from what i see in ESO, traders and RPers. There isn't any other active guilds what so ever really from what I see.
Your argument is also the same since launch. It is intuitive to new players and with additions like the guild finder it is even easier. It takes virtually 0 effort to navigate and understand the guild trader just as an Auction trader would. You can join any trade guild, the amount of difference it actually makes is virtually meaningless. It's slightly harder to get into and very easy to use and master while the AH is the opposite, easy access to all but harder to use and master. If you really dont care about top gold then you'd already know this key fact.
Everything is wrong with devolving guilds. Even the meaning of the word devolve is only used in a negative context. You're also being intentionally ignorant about guilds. There's more than 2 kinds of guilds (primarily pvp/pve content) but I guess you must have to ignore that fact in order for you to try to justify your means.
There's an easier way to get a global AH. First you download battle.net, then you purchase world of warcraft. Once that is done and installed you want to log in and create a character. Now that you have a character you are free to use your AH! I should note though that you will have to play a game that not only looks 15 years old, but plays the way as a 15 year old MMO. You'll love it.3
