Summoners!

mike101642rwb17_ESO · April 2014

Hi All

First some background, I have always played through Elder Scrolls Games since Morrowwind with a conjured pet class and there was always a variety of pets you could summon.

I was also a WoW veteran warlock back in the day using summoned pets in high rank pvp. The only reason a warlock (ESO summoner equivalent) was viable in pvp was because I could micro all pets under my control to adapt to any pvp scenario and use specific pet abilities to cc targets ect.

Below is my feedback after playing a summoner of which would make this class more viable in both PVE and PVP and make the class/skill line more exciting and possibly useful one day in Veteran Raiding.
NB:("Pets" = Daedra summons)

1. Ability to summon a various types of Daedra (Dremora Lord with 2h sword plz)

2. A stand alone Pet ability bar to toggle attack, defensive, abilities or passive mode (ie; use a specific pet to stun a target in pvp and the other pet to heal another player ect)

3. Make summoning a Daedra the same as you find them in the world....a thunder cloud where they launch down to the ground .... not a purple ball in my face.

4. Pets require advanced AI (half the time my Clannfear is standing around or attacking the wrong targets which is why no one will use pets in PVP - It also randomly runs into bosses in PVE...)

5. Pets require increased health, armor and damage - again in pve/pve these pets can not withstand any damage (Clannfear can a bit but lacks any useful damage and you have no control of the tailswipe so it stuns when you dont want it to)

6. Pets require their own skill tree's with unique attack abilities so they to can be different like players can ie; A Dremora Lord could use a shield / sword in pve and swap to a 2H Greatsword in pvp.

7. Everyone has little pink pets....please add colour options or a similar motif style item to change things up so you can have a unique looking pet at max level.... not a beginner pet.

8. 10% of mana sacrificed for each pet is to much considering we are already losing 2 slots of which must be replicated on the second attack bar to avoid losing the pets we already have summoned when a weapon swap occurs.

9. The double pets should share 1 attack bar slot for purposes stated in point 8 ie; we technically have to use 4 slots for 2 pets?...

10. Pets should not de-summon when changing zones/caves or when traveling ect.

Thanks for reading my feedback on the summoner class! - Great game so far, keep it up Zenimax! I am open to all positive/negative feedback!, let me know what your thoughts are!

Saurfex

therover8511 · April 2014

I will say as a Melee sorcerer I am a bit of a tank. I wish I could control my 2 pets a bit better. Having pets out also really limits your skill selection. It would be nice to customize your pets a bit more, and more options other than the 3 options there are.

skus · April 2014

I strongly agree

sumpinfierce · April 2014

I believe the issues with AI and de-summoning during zone changes are coding/programming/scripts that will be smoothed out in time. The cosmetic issues might be addressed, too, to making the pets more distinguishable from each other and from daedric mobs.

However, I personally think the other changes you request are too much like other MMO's, WoW in particular. I would rather see Daedric Summoning act like traditional ES games, where the daedra are short term summons. Sort of the way the Storm Atronach Ultimate works now. Port them in for a bit, they tear things up, then the gate closes and they go away. A Daedroth, or Dremora, especially a Golden Saint, would be wicked.

Kitai4 · April 2014

The problem with these ideas (gameplay wise) is that they require too much complexity. Unfortunately, we're playing a game that has to cater to 6-button consoles.

Censorious · April 2014

I'm not interested in adding bells and whistles. The pets as they stand are adequate - maybe further down the line the selection might be extended.

BUT:- There are problems with the existing pet mechanics.
Aside from bugs, which can be dealt with. The pets are currently too clumsy in use. Without any ability to manage them you have to resort to not using them or not using the skills they interfere with.
You cannot use any soft cc with a pet out. That's a big problem.

We badly need some simple command system. Attack, stay, heel - that sort of thing.
If the damn thing would just attack the mob you set it on instead of swapping to your current target it would help.

Daenerys · April 2014

as a fellow sorcerer, I feel you pain. honestly, when I see another sorcerer using pets, I just smh and shed a tear for all the dps they're missing. simply not viable to use them right now, unless you don't care about dps. they need a total overhaul.

mike101642rwb17_ESO · April 2014

sumpinfierce wrote: »

I believe the issues with AI and de-summoning during zone changes are coding/programming/scripts that will be smoothed out in time. The cosmetic issues might be addressed, too, to making the pets more distinguishable from each other and from daedric mobs.

However, I personally think the other changes you request are too much like other MMO's, WoW in particular. I would rather see Daedric Summoning act like traditional ES games, where the daedra are short term summons. Sort of the way the Storm Atronach Ultimate works now. Port them in for a bit, they tear things up, then the gate closes and they go away. A Daedroth, or Dremora, especially a Golden Saint, would be wicked.

Sounds good however In regards to the short term summons and old ES games, Daedric Summons were like this because they would always be against an NPC. Now they have introduced pvp and allow us to have the pets toggled on, we need to have some form of control over them so its not random how they will react when multiple players are around you.

I agree a Daedroth would be awsm, perhaps we could also have different element Atronaches (ie; Fire/Ice) and mobility for them as they only last a short time.

steinernein · April 2014

Daenerys wrote: »

as a fellow sorcerer, I feel you pain. honestly, when I see another sorcerer using pets, I just smh and shed a tear for all the dps they're missing. simply not viable to use them right now, unless you don't care about dps. they need a total overhaul.

What DPS are they missing? They're gaining if they're building correctly, but it's usually at the cost of healer sanity.

Do you want me to give you the answer or do you want to figure it out by yourself based on experimentation and a bit of skill delving?

Vladish · April 2014

Pet is already an extra target/dps source. I find it plenty useful even as a damage sink when soloing. I am still a lowbie though, so my opinion may alter down the road.

On the same note, if you make a pet stronger, you will be an OP one man army; and that's a bit much unless you give similar mechanic to all, or buff their damage.... and then you run into more re-balancing issues.
Also, if you don't sacrifice skill slots... that's the price to pay too, otherwise everyone will want a pet as there will be no real penalty. And to balance overall damage output, again, they'd probably nerf the spells to off-set stronger pets; or make everyone else stronger.

I agree though on the control, they should be more obedient rather than mindless beasts.That at least would be more utility based change.

mike101642rwb17_ESO · April 2014

Kitai4 wrote: »

The problem with these ideas (gameplay wise) is that they require too much complexity. Unfortunately, we're playing a game that has to cater to 6-button consoles.

Firstly they are not 6-button controllers ie; Xbox one
LB, LT, RB, RT, Y, X, B, A, D-Pad ect of which you can then use ie; Left button or a D-PAD to toggle a different attack bar of which then changes the functions of all the buttons giving you heaps of combinations for different abilities in a game like ESO. Example: Darksouls 2 uses D-pad function to enable you to have more variety of abilities/skills.
Even one of my mates is playing ESO on a Laptop with an Xbox controller and has no issues.

mike101642rwb17_ESO · April 2014

Vladish wrote: »

Pet is already an extra target/dps source. I find it plenty useful even as a damage sink when soloing. I am still a lowbie though, so my opinion may alter down the road.

On the same note, if you make a pet stronger, you will be an OP one man army; and that's a bit much unless you give similar mechanic to all, or buff their damage.... and then you run into more re-balancing issues.
Also, if you don't sacrifice skill slots... that's the price to pay too, otherwise everyone will want a pet as there will be no real penalty. And to balance overall damage output, again, they'd probably nerf the spells to off-set stronger pets; or make everyone else stronger.

I agree though on the control, they should be more obedient rather than mindless beasts.That at least would be more utility based change.

Yes there should be sacrifices to have the pets but not take 4 skill slots with weapon swap for only 2 pets when it is already taking 20% of our base mana.
Obviously depending on how Zenimax change the pet AI / control what we are sacrificing to have them would be subject to change.
Further to this, several guildies have mentioned the pets do not scale properly at max level therefore they are useless in veteran raiding content as other skills that scale better will be used over them.

NordJitsu · April 2014

Pets in this game are just...bad. In PvE they can be okay if you don't care about them accidentally pulling aggro. But in PvP they are just trash.

They need a major buff to both damage and health, they need to be able to persist through weapon swap like the originally could, and there needs to be some better AI and/or command system.

Sleepydan · April 2014

You could never micro your pets when fighting multiple things in a tes environment and I would not welcome the charge. Regarding permanent vs temporary summons I could go either way, though I would prefer temporary for traditions sake. I also think it would solve the weapon swap cost problem.

Summons currently cost 2 slots to use as permanent. Temporary would likely persist, as they would be a physically manifested dot, and those don't fade on a weapon swap.

Before we even fiddle with that I would think we should make their ai exactly like their npc monster equivalent. Attack something always unless to far from me, then run all the way back and heal. Retarget when you get back not on the way. Maybe give it a nice movement speed buff on the run back to me to prevent its heal from getting exploited in pve.

You can still control whether they engage based on their range in pve, and in pvp they attack what's attacking you, not what's kiting it.

I say that should happen first because maybe a minion that actually works all the time and doesn't ever stand around whistling Dixie they might actually be worth 2 slots. I wouldn't know because as it stands it's a spectator as much as a participant.

greylox · April 2014

I just use volatile familiar and use him as a tank on harder bosses, making sure to keep him healed and only use spells which don't draw much agro. Can take a bit longer but works a treat. Also find its useful to pull away an enemy or two when fighting a group. It would be great to be able to control him tho, and you wouldn't believe the amount of fail pvpers that go for him and not me.