Deep_01 wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

Magdks are most definitely not weak, and I play magdk.

I'd like to get tips then because I do 1vX on MagDk and it sucks.

https://youtu.be/k23Dgd0Zs2E

In case link doesnt work, check Nirnstorm ESO on YT. The video would help if you are patient enough to watch it.

I know him but in large 1vX you wouldn't survive with this. I watched almost all magDk videos on youtube and Nirnstorm definitely is a good player but I don't think that this is how you can overcome the sustain issue. If I'm not pressured that much the sustain I have would be enough and his sustain would be enough too but if you get pressured a lot you run out of magicka quickly on any setup right now since you do not have a reliable way to manage your ressources. Dark Conversion still is my favorite skill for ressource management. Basically free due to unchained and you can get back ressources whenever you want, use it and get ur mag up and your stam really low, use a tripot and have all ressources up. Battle roar used to be similar only that you couldn't use it always but you could get more ressources and stack costreduction, thats how dk was designed. Since Dks have no passives that help them with their regen it is fairely ineffective to stack regen and without mistform you cannot kite bigger groups because you do not have the mobility or shields that keep you alive so you either block or use mistform for damage mitigation, kite and heal in between.

for reference:
battle roar back in the days together with meteor gave me about 13k mag back

battle roar now gives me about 9.2k mag back

doesn't seem like a very big difference but it makes the difference

Zenimax "changes" the class without thinking about how the class was designed to play since they try to make everything the same.

Dks are a Dot based class that sustains not through regen but costreduction, sets that give you instant magicka back (desert rose, bloodthorn) or just avoid losing ressources through seducer but that doesn't work as good if you're breton since stacking costreduction isn't as effective. Desert Rose is still the best option for sustain, unless you have gaps in fights where you can regenerate magicka. In bgs it's better to run regen but thats another thing, dk doesn't struggle there.

Dottzgaming wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

chrightt wrote: »

Damn obviously YET ANOTHER DK centered thread despite magDK being really powerful in BG and just overall strong in small scale. Yes, mobility was always an issue but the amount of damage you pack is a lot higher than other classes in PVP. Couple this with it’s decent survivability and the strongest CC in game, you just need to L2P.

In open world 1vX, yes magDK isn’t as well off against more decent players but due to its burst potential combined with its survivability you can still pull off 1vXs relatively well especially if you use the terrain to your advantage. If sustain is an issue definitely your problem, not DK. As an Altmer magDK you pretty much have the best stam recovery as a mag char in the whole game due to passives. As for Magicka recovery if you’re stuck on 2 DPS set, non Breton with non mag recovery food and doesn’t run elemental drain or runs it but forgets to apply 9/10 times well then I guess you would suck no matter what you played anyway.

TL;DR a thread of another DK mega-bait thread where low tier DKs cry why one of the strongest specs is not OP in all situations.

I'm breton and I can't sustain with Desert Rose + Lich + Bloodspawn and Eledrain. I drink potions on cooldown and I use ults on cooldown. Idk maybe I'm supposed to use only one ability every 3 seconds but this is not how it is on my Sorc or any other class. Yes Molten Whip is good damage but overall MagDk stats are the worst in the game. I do 1vX on MagDk since 2016 and it has never felt this bad. I didn't have these issues before.

allan0n wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

chrightt wrote: »

Damn obviously YET ANOTHER DK centered thread despite magDK being really powerful in BG and just overall strong in small scale. Yes, mobility was always an issue but the amount of damage you pack is a lot higher than other classes in PVP. Couple this with it’s decent survivability and the strongest CC in game, you just need to L2P.

In open world 1vX, yes magDK isn’t as well off against more decent players but due to its burst potential combined with its survivability you can still pull off 1vXs relatively well especially if you use the terrain to your advantage. If sustain is an issue definitely your problem, not DK. As an Altmer magDK you pretty much have the best stam recovery as a mag char in the whole game due to passives. As for Magicka recovery if you’re stuck on 2 DPS set, non Breton with non mag recovery food and doesn’t run elemental drain or runs it but forgets to apply 9/10 times well then I guess you would suck no matter what you played anyway.

TL;DR a thread of another DK mega-bait thread where low tier DKs cry why one of the strongest specs is not OP in all situations.

I'm breton and I can't sustain with Desert Rose + Lich + Bloodspawn and Eledrain. I drink potions on cooldown and I use ults on cooldown. Idk maybe I'm supposed to use only one ability every 3 seconds but this is not how it is on my Sorc or any other class. Yes Molten Whip is good damage but overall MagDk stats are the worst in the game. I do 1vX on MagDk since 2016 and it has never felt this bad. I didn't have these issues before.

I almost never say this, but if you cant sustain in THAT setup as a Breton with the Combustion buff then it's either a L2P issue OR your build has so much focus on sustain that your skills are weak and as a result you have to spam them to hell to even dream of getting a kill. Hence why you cant sustain. People are already tanky as balls in this meta so idk why you'd run a build like that unless you just want to be a zergling who CCs people and relies on other people's damage.

What this guy said ^

Before i get into your setup tho, some people on this thread are saying magDKs are insanely strong this patch and that is not true, but at the same time, it is not the weakest class either. MagDK is mid tier imo for solo open-world gameplay. It's not the weakest class (looking at you magcro), but those of you putting it on the same tier as magsorc/stamblade/magplar are mistaken. The class still needs some DoT increases to justify the absurd costs we have, or some cost decreases on said skills to justify their current strength levels. Regardless, I play my magDK because he's my favorite character, not because he's the strongest class (since it isnt).

Anyway, you are BEYOND over sustaining with breton + Lich + Bloodspawn + Desert Rose + light armor + ele drain. For me on a breton, i use about ~1000 magicka recovery + light armor + charged weapons + ele drain + bloodspawn, and that's enough for me. Sustain only struggles if im 1v1ing a dunmer. Granted, if someone is less experienced with magDK they may need more towards ~1300 with those other things i mentioned, but what you have on is beyond overkill.

Assuming you want to make as few changes to your build as possible, i'd drop desert rose and replace it with an offensive set - options include sun, bsw, spinners, julianos, axiom, etc, you have alot of options. Me personally, ive been liking front-barrable offensive stats so i can use potentates/deaths wind back bar for extra tankiness. Specifically with lich, i think you can set it up to have 3x Offensive body, 2x Lich body, 2x Potentates Jewelry, 1x Lich jewelry, front bar Offensive and back bar lich. That way, lich 5 piece will be active back bar (only needs to be on one bar) and youll have your front barrable damage set active on the front bar only. This will allow you to gain that 5% dmg mit from potentates. Now, i still think Lich is gonna be overkill for a breton, but its probably better you scale your sustain down slowly to get used to it rather than slam it down from what you're using to what i have on lol.

But yeah, with your setup, your skills probably heal and hit for nearly nothing, and you dont have much defense either since all of your gear is aimed at sustain, and thats why imo youre struggling. Personally this patch, im running 1x Defensive set (to help counter burst) and 1x Damage set (to give me damage, obviously lol). if you wanna check it out, you can take a look at the video linked at the bottom.

EDIT: Burning Embers is still worth running, i keep seeing you say it isnt, but it most certainly is. Even though it's not as good as it used to be, having another skill that applies burning instantly, adds another DoT (technically 2 if you count burning), and gives you a heal is still worth a slot on the bar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVfKPUSQPKQ

Alright, first off thank you for taking your time and trying to help me, I really appreciate it. Upfront, I do not want it to come across as if I thought you guys weren't good. I really like your content and I think you guys are doing great! However the fights shown in your video aren't as long and you aren't pressured much. Idk if that's a Na thing but on Eu the first thing I do when fight 1 or 2 is run because I can be sure that at least 5 up to 15 will follow in less than a minute and I'd be dead when they arrive because they are definitely faster than a magDk. And again, I do not use the setup I mentioned. I just tried it because I couldn't sustain my setup. In this video I run my usual setup though it changed a little bit. It shows a relatively calm fight and these are the fights I usally survive the longest and kill the most.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TM0YpCb5fE&feature=youtu.be

Overall I count 22 pretty significant mistakes I made or 23 if we include smashing my desk because it might not be good doing that in the long run.

I will not say much to the parts commenting on the setup because I don't run it, it was simply an example that I tried to see if you could sustain if you would go full sustain and lich made no difference. I would not drop desert rose and run lich because I do not value regen on magDk.

To Embers:
I absolutly disagree the heal is there but it makes no difference. I run and infused fire staff with a flame gylph and from that together with my fire abilities I prog burning often enough. Embers applies burning which basically just reduces its cost by 500 magicka but it would still cost over 2k which is way too much for a dot that does less than 1k damage per tik. Also since I apply burning pretty often I wouldn't really make a big difference in damage to prog it from using Embers. If they would change this skill that the heal would be a percentage of the damage every tik and heal every tik so it would be a HoT that heals about 1k per tik I would absolutely use it, it would be a great skill and I could get over the fact that it doesn't deal much damage and costs too much. But for now it is simply better to drop it because it takes one second of your fight away for applying it and the damage is too low to make up for that one second. In conclusion, Embers does not fit into the meta, it is a skill that has its use but there are better options depending on your playstyle.

To your setup:
Definitely a decent setup. I don't know why you chose Sun since as you mentioned there are other options and they are stronger and some of them are permanent or almost permanent. Spinner is really strong and permanent (I love to use it and currently have it as damage set on my frontbar) and you mentioned Elemental Succession too which you can prog with a lightattack if you run a firestaff and it gives you 150 more spelldamage than sun. Anyway Sun still is a respectable option and by no means a bad set and using it does no wrong. Running a defensive set is your own choice though I think it isn't necessary and I'd rather go for more sustain since you run out of magicka pretty fast too. You might be used to it but if you ran something like desert rose you would still have the health you lose from sun, still have one armor bonus and you could run potentates on your backbar instead of deaths wind since you do not have the percentage from swift anymore. But that is personal preference I guess. Idk what testing you did on charged for your staff but it's simply not worth it. If you want to prog burning more often you should run infused with a flame glyph. The additional damage from the glyph is worth more than the weapondamage entchantment and helps progging burning more often. Running Charged on your backbar is pretty good I did not test that. Overall a cool setup though.

This is the setup I'm currently working on:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=186889

I wish I had the Stam/Mag/Minor Heroism potions but they are way too expensive since dragon rheum and dragons blood cost so much and I do not have the income ingame to pay 1k gold per potion I consume since I use potions on cooldown and consume about 150 every time I play so I'm stuck with regular tripotions.

I hope this didn't come across as rude, I just want to give some advice and explain my thinking.

Keep up the great work!

Edit: Yes MagDk isn't the worst, absolutely agree but I needs some changes and probably just a very small buff. Most of it is just outdated and doesn't fit in the meta. It's probably on one step with magden. Rip to our magcromancers.

Edit2: I will change my backbar, decisive isn't worth it at all it's pretty bad actually.

Edit3: Charged on MagDk actually is worth it but only if you run a shock glyph on the charged staff... that way you get a extremely high uptime on minor vulnerability and also get a good chance for burning.

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Hang on a sec.


So what are people on about when they say how strong they (MagDK) are since the update?

I thought MagDK and Stamplar were supposed to be the strongest classes at the moment? The vids I watch of these two classes, on YouTube, paints a completely different picture to what you are saying

I want to say it was a week ago where there was a thread on how it is now pulling huge burst and lost its feel of tanky and laying on dots.

iCaliban wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

dunno where u play but i encounter magdks more than magdesn or sometimes magsorcs, and they are very strong for how tanky are they. Built correctly are stronger than others.

Then please give me a good build because I've been 1vXing on MagDk for about 2 years now and this patch I'm usally just tanking without killing anything because I can't go offensive due to the lack of hots and defense apart from blocking. Also sustain is really tough if you're fighting decent players. On any other class I play I perform better than on my magDk right now. (I play everything exept Warden and Necro and it's kinda rare that I play Magplar but it still feels better than magDk)

1vX is not any sort of gauge for class balance. To be entirely blunt, 1vX is just hunting for players clueless in pvp to smash for a highlight reel. Some classes are a lot better at farming potatoes than others, that doesnt mean those classes are inherently superior to others or that the ability to farm potatoes should be taken into account for class balance.

Yes 1vX in most cases is against potatoes but you can also 1vX decent players. Kentaaa and Malcolm have also 1vXed decent players. I think you need to take everything into account when balancing and it's not really that hard. All I see though since more than 4 years is zenimax vastly and randomly buffing and nerfing stuff. Making everything the same now isn't good either. The problem is that magDks lack mobility and they can't make up for that anymore. Compared to the top Classes atm like Stamina Warden which has good sustain, good burst and good Hots, magDk can't keep up. 1vX actually shows the most how good a class can do on their own without a pocket healer or someone who spams the execute for them. Same goes for duels but they are depending so much on gear that it's not a good representation of a class either. If zenimax wants to make everything the same then why do other classes have useful Hots and magDk doesn't? MagDk is not the only class struggling thought.

JumpmanLane wrote: »

MagDk hits like a truck driven by a fat man hauling bricks. AND it’s TANKY af.

I’d love to know what you’re running this patch, if you wouldn’t mind sharing!

Ryanoxx wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

In the video, you were flat out being zerged by a bunch of people running ranged dots. It's not the kind of situation that's a good test of a class, and having all that regen just prolonged the inevitable. Some other classes could have disengaged, but very few players would have won that. Maybe a top tier sorc.

Cleanse would have been way more helpful in that fight than Coag (7k cost and all), but hey, we only get 10 skill slots and you never know in advance.

I agree Embers is a bit undertuned at the moment, but if you have a lot of damage, it still does a decent heal plus procs Combustion.

Again I do not run the setup with the regen I have 900 magregen in that fight. Purge costs too much. I did not struggle until I ran out of magicka, if I could've sustained I would've killed them and I had these fights on stamblade and magsorc and I could kite and kill most of them and some of them left while I was kiting. The cleanse from templar would've been nice but since I play magDk more I didn't have it there.

Yes it's decent but not worth it.

Just saying last patch if you popped Coag twice, Cleanse was cheaper and healed for more. I'm assuming that video was pre-Dragonhold with all the Soul Trap spam? Dragonhold... not so much, they nerfed it badly.

Amen brother!

NBrookus wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

In the video, you were flat out being zerged by a bunch of people running ranged dots. It's not the kind of situation that's a good test of a class, and having all that regen just prolonged the inevitable. Some other classes could have disengaged, but very few players would have won that. Maybe a top tier sorc.

Cleanse would have been way more helpful in that fight than Coag (7k cost and all), but hey, we only get 10 skill slots and you never know in advance.

I agree Embers is a bit undertuned at the moment, but if you have a lot of damage, it still does a decent heal plus procs Combustion.

Again I do not run the setup with the regen I have 900 magregen in that fight. Purge costs too much. I did not struggle until I ran out of magicka, if I could've sustained I would've killed them and I had these fights on stamblade and magsorc and I could kite and kill most of them and some of them left while I was kiting. The cleanse from templar would've been nice but since I play magDk more I didn't have it there.

Yes it's decent but not worth it.

Just saying last patch if you popped Coag twice, Cleanse was cheaper and healed for more. I'm assuming that video was pre-Dragonhold with all the Soul Trap spam? Dragonhold... not so much, they nerfed it badly.

It is Dragonhold, I didn't play since Elsweyr launch so I have not experienced the Dot meta I just came back and now my Embers costs twice as much and deals half as much damage than when I left. The clip was recorded just a few days after launch.

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

I agree, mag dk is in a terrible spot and needs all the buffs. Not just the men-buffs, but the women-buffs and children-buffs too!!

One Battleground isn't a representation of how strong a class is. MagDks are decent in Bgs. I got almost the same score on my Stamblade when I was playing it first time in a Bg and I have about 15 days playtime on it. Furthermore you can see how onesided this Bg is.

Umm, I'd be amazed if you contributed anywhere near that damage on anything other than a Magplar/MagDK unless you were in a 10min game against pure stinkers at 0 MMR.

Decent MagDk's consistently put out numbers like that in BG's.

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

dunno where u play but i encounter magdks more than magdesn or sometimes magsorcs, and they are very strong for how tanky are they. Built correctly are stronger than others.

Then please give me a good build because I've been 1vXing on MagDk for about 2 years now and this patch I'm usally just tanking without killing anything because I can't go offensive due to the lack of hots and defense apart from blocking. Also sustain is really tough if you're fighting decent players. On any other class I play I perform better than on my magDk right now. (I play everything exept Warden and Necro and it's kinda rare that I play Magplar but it still feels better than magDk)

Do you run SNB like every other MagDK? If so, do you HAVE to?
Sustain is tough for whoever is on the back foot when it's good vs good - Stay aggressive.
Try something new, don't run ele drain? Try an Ice staff and slot it back bar or something.
Go to your platforms main duel spot (the one with the big boys) fight them and make tweaks until you don't die anymore, you'll have no drama with Cyrodil turnips at that point.

In duels / 1v1 situations / 1vX against noobs, OS, Shadowrend and whatever other carry sets still work a charm.

Shadowrend isn't good in 1vX. Yes MagDks are good in Bgs but Decimus puts out damage numbers over 2mil with Stamblade and Stamsorc too. MagDks damage is high because leap is leap is aoe and you got engulfing an aoe dot and volatile, these increase your damage a lot but are easily countered too. You can still kill with leap and moltenwhip though. 1v1 depends a lot on gear and after that you just pressure your enemie so much that you don't have to go into heavy defense. Yes I run snb and I made this choice since there is no reason to run an icestaff on my backbar neither a restro staff since I have my class heals and running snb simply gives more defense than running another destro or running rapid regen as additional heal since I would have to drop a skill for that.

I'm pretty aware of what I'm running and why I'm running it. It might be debatable though that I theory craft too much and don't spend my playtime with actual gameplay to learn how to play but in the lag I usally prefere theory crafting and testing stuff that doesn't require me to play in the lag. In Bgs I play very aggressively btw. I'm full dmg with skoria instead of bloodspawn and run 1k regen and I can manage with the support and meditate in between. Not running Eledrain would be a huge mistake, it gives minor magicka steel and breach. My Nb match was low MMR yes... Decimus performes well in high MMR matches with his Nightblade though. Anyway magDks struggle with independend sustain which other classes don't.

I unno...depends on the Resto.

What depends on the restro?

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

-

---

try hitting someone 3x with this no damage skill in combat while they are blasting you with Frags

Nerf sorcs thread spotted.

Ryanoxx wrote: »

The morph with the heal actually heals a ton but why would I need that? I have Dragonblood and having Stone Giant as heal is absolutly unreliable since you can only use it if you have an enemie in range. I do not need 2 burst heals... No one does.

From a PVE perspective I rely on Obsidian Shard to keep myself and my team alive if my healer is going a *** job.

The heals are massive and for most DPS characters it's a full heal. Not to mention 2 people get it. IT makes it very easy to do dungeons without a healer preset at all!