Healer's Role In A Group?

Ilision · November 2019

Okay, I did not want to do this but I have to.

I just leveled a dragon knight healer and I am currently healing in dungeons. I did not have any issues healing or keeping folks alive until level 2 dungeons/pledges/DLC dungeons (as expected due to gear). I am also using one of the online guides from Alcast's Website so I know its not ME.

Previously running through dungeons I have noticed that some if not 50% of players do not care for the mechanics of the game and will do whatever the f*** they want. I do not disagree with this in some cases. My issue is with folks that expect you to heal them while they are standing in poison, fire, spikes, etc. I am sure that most of us know that healing has a radius and only certain healing abilities can heal past that radius. So here is the question to the idiots that do not help others in the group and still expect a tank to pull agro and heals to heal them while standing in s***. Why are you playing in group content? Go play Skyrim!

Okay enough of that and back to my concern. Are we really expecting healers to heal through all the crap on the ground? Don't we all have self heals that can help healers to not spam heals 24/7 and break their fingers? Isn't this supposed to be a team effort not a fracking Tank/Heals battle? I also noticed that in most case I am doing 20% of all the group damage, WTH is wrong with that picture... I am a healer.

Please explain because I do not understand.

CaffeinatedMayhem · November 2019

DPS need to move out of stupid, but yes, healers are expected to heal through AoE. Just because you're using an Alcast build, doesn't mean you're infallible. You can have all the gear, but if you don't use it correctly, won't work for you.

Also, you're in a pug. If you expect decent trinity play, don't use group finder.

Zephard · November 2019

So, I didn't follow what you wrote. Sorry.
From what I grasped. You are playing the healer, in PVE setting, playing dungeons.
You have grouped with people who try to get themselves killed, or are testing your skills.
You think that DPS or Tank should be healing?

So I play tanks, and I play healers. As a Tank, I try to keep a self heal on my DK tank, and my Warden tank has more than just self heal. As a healers, I have some debuff, a dmg skill and a lot of heals.

As a healer, I normally throw out heals and buffs and debuffs as fast as most DPS throw out damage. I do not expect my DPS to self heal. If they can, kudos, please don't tell me you self heal at the cost of 10+k of DPS. Cause that is a bad trade off. I got way to many heals on my bar for you to do that.

A dps totally trying to get themselves killed, can in certain cases succeed. But I know I never get kicked, cause I always group with my wife, who is playing a decent DPS.

My wife has complained as you have when she played healer with me on tank, about the DPS. (PUGGing of course)

Araneae6537 · November 2019

Sometimes a fight can work better if everyone stacks despite aoe but IMHO it’s generally selfish or lazy as DPS to ignore mechanics or stand in aoe. When I play heals, I do my best to keep everyone up despite everything and would only say something if we’re not able to get through encounters. As DPS, I do my best to stay out of stupid unless I am explicitly told to do otherwise!

RogueShark · November 2019

Depends. If I'm doing content with a healer and I know/trust them, I 100% stand in red to kill things faster. If it's 3 dps or a pug healer I avoid what crit surge + brawler can't outheal/shield (which isn't much in dungeons).

If you are a healer in a group, though, you shouldn't be expecting self-heals from DPS (in dungeons). ZoS did a fantastic job of making healers obsolete in 4man content, so yeah, break your fingers healing. You are the healer. Alternatively, roll a DPS setup with orbs and a couple heals. More DPS is a quicker dungeon.

FierceSam · November 2019

Being a kickass DPS amazingly doesn’t cure people of stupid

My healer will provide heals that will keep a sensible DPS alive, will debuff the boss and enhance the group DPS by about 30%. If the DPS is too stupid to live through that, there ain’t nothing I can do to help them.

Sadly there are no useful metrics to stuff in the face of ungrateful gobarses who don’t understand what healers and tanks actually do in serious content.

The lesson I take away is that no matter how well I perform, I can’t make an idiot into a player.

Aznarb · November 2019

Ilision wrote: »

Okay, I did not want to do this but I have to.

I just leveled a dragon knight healer and I am currently healing in dungeons. I did not have any issues healing or keeping folks alive until level 2 dungeons/pledges/DLC dungeons (as expected due to gear). I am also using one of the online guides from Alcast's Website so I know its not ME.

Previously running through dungeons I have noticed that some if not 50% of players do not care for the mechanics of the game and will do whatever the f*** they want. I do not disagree with this in some cases. My issue is with folks that expect you to heal them while they are standing in poison, fire, spikes, etc. I am sure that most of us know that healing has a radius and only certain healing abilities can heal past that radius. So here is the question to the idiots that do not help others in the group and still expect a tank to pull agro and heals to heal them while standing in s***. Why are you playing in group content? Go play Skyrim!

Okay enough of that and back to my concern. Are we really expecting healers to heal through all the crap on the ground? Don't we all have self heals that can help healers to not spam heals 24/7 and break their fingers? Isn't this supposed to be a team effort not a fracking Tank/Heals battle? I also noticed that in most case I am doing 20% of all the group damage, WTH is wrong with that picture... I am a healer.

Please explain because I do not understand.

Let them die, simple.
I know I can out-heal lot of the aoe.
But When I know I can't, I don't try, I rather focus on the people who do thing right.
I say them in chat to not stand in obvious aoe and if they keep doing s****, their is a beautiful kick button to help them.

That said, if DPS/Tank are doing right, DPS player rarely need to slot a heal if you do your job. The friend I run with always replace heal for 1 more dps skill cuz they know I wont let them die.
But yeah, in pug, it's better to bring a self-heal as DPs, you don't know how the tank or heal gonna be.

Same for healer and tank in 4 man, who care about buff in pug ? Slot DPS in case they're bad.
If they're good just switch back to buff if they want it.

DK heal is a bit harder to build due to lack of sustain, I wouldn't recommended Alcast healing build for any healer that said.. But I know it's a popular guy and the fan-base probably gonna rip-me-off :>

Try your best adapt and don't be to fragile if you pug a lot.
And don't be afraid to kick or leave, some time it's the only thing to do sadly.
The best thing is to find guild and friend and stick with them as much as you can.
Improve together and it's gonna be way more fun than pug.

Raisin · November 2019

TBH part of this is a bit of a new healer trap. There is some AOE that you are expected to heal through, and some where it's expected that DDs don't stand in stupid. Which is which is something you have to learn as you go along. I'd say try outhealing it and if you can do so without it being a huge issue, it's probably your job to do so.

That said, no one can expect you to know this IMO. Also it's a PUG, so people have to be flexible. It's not the DDs godgiven right that you let them stand in stupid. That's something you can do with friends, guildies and other organized groups. If the healer in a PUG doesn't specifically say to stand in ***, I wouldn't consider it.

Ilision · November 2019

RogueShark wrote: »

Depends. If I'm doing content with a healer and I know/trust them, I 100% stand in red to kill things faster. If it's 3 dps or a pug healer I avoid what crit surge + brawler can't outheal/shield (which isn't much in dungeons).

If you are a healer in a group, though, you shouldn't be expecting self-heals from DPS (in dungeons). ZoS did a fantastic job of making healers obsolete in 4man content, so yeah, break your fingers healing. You are the healer. Alternatively, roll a DPS setup with orbs and a couple heals. More DPS is a quicker dungeon.

See and this is exactly what I am saying. I never expect a tank to constantly move around the damn area just to avoid getting hit. Tank takes damage and that is why it is called a tank. But deeps supposed to run around and do as many deeps as they can.

Of cause, all this is coming out because of pugs but you can't honestly tell a healer that it is his fault when your deeps are sh** and you don't even know how to dodge.

Just a thought.

Iskiab · November 2019

It’s a bit of both, if you can heal through light damage go ahead. However, especially in DLC vets things will one shot people.

I’d say just do what you can and don’t sweat it. Lots of players come from world of wankers where everything’s easy and haven’t adjusted. I found dps between CP 200-400 are a bit dumb because they expect things to be easier then it is, by CP 600+ they’ve adapted and do mechanics.

Ilision · November 2019

I think that my overall concern is comments like, you are a healer so heal, lol. Can you imagine telling a doctor to fix someone who is halfway decomposed? It is a team effort and everyone should be on the same page, unfortunately, as some of you have already said it is a PUG and even asking nicely does not work.

Thank you for all your replies, it really does help to hear from the community.

Zatox · November 2019

Do damage

RogueShark · November 2019

Ilision wrote: »

I think that my overall concern is comments like, you are a healer so heal, lol. Can you imagine telling a doctor to fix someone who is halfway decomposed? It is a team effort and everyone should be on the same page, unfortunately, as some of you have already said it is a PUG and even asking nicely does not work.

Thank you for all your replies, it really does help to hear from the community.

I think you misinterpreted my post.
As I said, in pugs I don't stand in anything I cannot heal through with crit surge running, simply because you never know the skill/experience of the pugs. If you aren't with a guildie or friend, it is stupid of DPS to stand in things they can't manage. That's not on the healer.

That being said, if you CAN heal through it why wouldn't you? Even if it's "finger breaking" hard, heal. You're... a healer. If you can't heal through it then yes it's on the DPS for being really dumb.

DLM · November 2019

Ilision wrote: »

I am sure that most of us know that healing has a radius and only certain healing abilities can heal past that radius.

You just summed up the issue, so many people have no clue how healing works in ESO.

All meaningful heals are in front of us, not 15m behind us. So when you go into Moongrave Fane, reach the second boss (the one with his shield and its increasing damage the longer the shield is up) and ask people to stand around him so that you can heal everyone... yet you still have people wandering around what else can you do? I still explain the positioning giving an example around an orb, like tank in front of the boss, heals behind and DPS on each side, explaining that the only real heals will come in front of me and yet... once again you still have the same idiot standing behind you.

Raisin · November 2019

DLM wrote: »

Ilision wrote: »

I am sure that most of us know that healing has a radius and only certain healing abilities can heal past that radius.

You just summed up the issue, so many people have no clue how healing works in ESO.

All meaningful heals are in front of us, not 15m behind us. So when you go into Moongrave Fane, reach the second boss (the one with his shield and its increasing damage the longer the shield is up) and ask people to stand around him so that you can heal everyone... yet you still have people wandering around what else can you do? I still explain the positioning giving an example around an orb, like tank in front of the boss, heals behind and DPS on each side, explaining that the only real heals will come in front of me and yet... once again you still have the same idiot standing behind you.

This is definitely something that got worse with Healing Springs changes and a lot of even good players didn't notice. I used to be able to spam heal you across the room! But I can't anymore.
My first thought is Yolna flare and vBRP Bug Bomb. It doesn't matter how tightly stacked you are with me if you are behind me -- you have only my hots abd not my flash heal. That's why I take a step back behind the group while staying in the AOE. There's some physics applying to this magic business now.

RebornV3x · November 2019

Ive become a healer recently and the healer role is apparently to tank boss, rez dead teammates, heal and do 40k+ dps

pelle412 · November 2019

There's nothing in the game that teaches you how to play it that prepares you to do well in dungeons. I pug as tank, as dps, and as a healer every day. Do I get bad groups some runs? Of course I do. The problem I think from the OP's side is annoyance at the situation. The solution is abundantly simple yet very difficult to do successfully. Since you can't change everyone else's behavior, you can change your emotional response to it. Play to have fun. If *** happens, so what? If people become toxic, respond neutrally.

There are so many threads on this forum about toxic people and what not. Where are these people? I've never met them.

Ilision · November 2019

pelle412 wrote: »

There's nothing in the game that teaches you how to play it that prepares you to do well in dungeons. I pug as tank, as dps, and as a healer every day. Do I get bad groups some runs? Of course I do. The problem I think from the OP's side is annoyance at the situation. The solution is abundantly simple yet very difficult to do successfully. Since you can't change everyone else's behavior, you can change your emotional response to it. Play to have fun. If *** happens, so what? If people become toxic, respond neutrally.

There are so many threads on this forum about toxic people and what not. Where are these people? I've never met them.

I do not want to sound like a di** but being neutral does not work in-game situations. You are asking people to ignore the fact that there are 10-year-old children that would rather waste your time in-game then get on board. I am sorry, but adults do not act this way and if they do well I am sure there is a medical explanation for that. 90% of us here have jobs and like to come home and have fun with rl/online friends to forget about the day at work, instead, we come home and deal with idiots who do not care at all.

Here, read this.(https://www.scienceofpeople.com/toxic-people/) I find this article very informative since there is no real definition for "toxic people" as you say and that phrases like these are "toxic" themselves.

Stebarnz · November 2019

depends on content-

Normal dungeon doesn't need heals
Normal dlc may need heals dependent on group
Vet dungeon shouldn't but may need heals dependent on group
Vet dlc higher chance of needing heals
Trials needs heals.

Main role of healer (should be called support) is to buff dps so they can kill faster and debuff mobs so dps can kill faster then a few hots, also pull 20k min.

pelle412 · November 2019

Ilision wrote: »

I do not want to sound like a di** but being neutral does not work in-game situations. You are asking people to ignore the fact that there are 10-year-old children that would rather waste your time in-game then get on board. I am sorry, but adults do not act this way and if they do well I am sure there is a medical explanation for that. 90% of us here have jobs and like to come home and have fun with rl/online friends to forget about the day at work, instead, we come home and deal with idiots who do not care at all.

Here, read this.(https://www.scienceofpeople.com/toxic-people/) I find this article very informative since there is no real definition for "toxic people" as you say and that phrases like these are "toxic" themselves.

You really only have one option then. Do not run dungeons with anyone you do not already call your online friend. You're not going to succeed by taking this on. All you achieve is getting mad and that only hurts you.

zaria · November 2019

RogueShark wrote: »

Depends. If I'm doing content with a healer and I know/trust them, I 100% stand in red to kill things faster. If it's 3 dps or a pug healer I avoid what crit surge + brawler can't outheal/shield (which isn't much in dungeons).

If you are a healer in a group, though, you shouldn't be expecting self-heals from DPS (in dungeons). ZoS did a fantastic job of making healers obsolete in 4man content, so yeah, break your fingers healing. You are the healer. Alternatively, roll a DPS setup with orbs and a couple heals. More DPS is a quicker dungeon.

Healer role in dungeons depend on group and dungeon, General you should be able to switch from DD with off heal to fully healing and buffing, this also depend on stages in dungeon.

ProfessorKittyhawk · November 2019

The problem is you're playing with pugs. I've had some bad experiences recently as a dps. But even as a healer some people just run ahead, die, spread out too much, making healing and keeping them alive difficult.

SirDopey · November 2019

Ilision wrote: »

Okay, I did not want to do this but I have to.

I just leveled a dragon knight healer and I am currently healing in dungeons. I did not have any issues healing or keeping folks alive until level 2 dungeons/pledges/DLC dungeons (as expected due to gear). I am also using one of the online guides from Alcast's Website so I know its not ME.

Previously running through dungeons I have noticed that some if not 50% of players do not care for the mechanics of the game and will do whatever the f*** they want. I do not disagree with this in some cases. My issue is with folks that expect you to heal them while they are standing in poison, fire, spikes, etc. I am sure that most of us know that healing has a radius and only certain healing abilities can heal past that radius. So here is the question to the idiots that do not help others in the group and still expect a tank to pull agro and heals to heal them while standing in s***. Why are you playing in group content? Go play Skyrim!

Okay enough of that and back to my concern. Are we really expecting healers to heal through all the crap on the ground? Don't we all have self heals that can help healers to not spam heals 24/7 and break their fingers? Isn't this supposed to be a team effort not a fracking Tank/Heals battle? I also noticed that in most case I am doing 20% of all the group damage, WTH is wrong with that picture... I am a healer.

Please explain because I do not understand.

If you're not going to heal and want them to rely on self heals then why heal at all? Personally, if you can't do a better job than 3 dps running Vigor, then yes the problem is you. Heal is so face palm easy these days I honestly don't know how you are struggling to keep people alive, perhaps you picked the wrong class to make a healer?

And when you're doing 20% of the damage, might it because the DPS have had to equip heals to stop dying because maybe you are spending too much time doing damage instead of healing? I find this happens a LOT when I'm on my DPS or Tank, healer more concerned about doing damage instead of their basic role.

Cirantille · November 2019

It stresses me out when people stand in red or run faster

Kali_Despoine · November 2019

just remember this
you are the wheel
everything else is just spokes
spokes are replaceable
the wheel isn't

PUG LIFE

learn the tells is all I can say
Once you see the tells you will know when to heal
each and every add/Boss has a tell when they are about to do something.

also if the bow build is always standing behind you then move opposite the tank, he will see the orbs disappear from his grasp along with the heal.
mind the cleave when doing this. Also remember that their tool tip tells them to stand there for more damage.

Girl_Number8 · November 2019

Don't pug, simple. Instead run with your friends or guildies. That will solve your issue and give you way more enjoyment playing the game.

Don't waste your time getting upset with pugs. Good luck

srnm · November 2019

Healers don't heal experienced players that much - except in DLC content that is intended to stress healers.
Inexperienced players need healers even for "easy" content.
The issue is that dungeon finder/PUGging means you will might need to be a high output healer in one group and a decent dps in another...

PUG tanking vBRF yesterday:

1 healer and 1 dps were mid-300 cp - oh oh...
Our healer was wearing Sanctuary - could be worse.
1 dps was also wearing Sanctuary - on bar swap - oops.
"It's all I have - I don't usually dps." - gotta love dungeon finder!

Took a while and many deaths later we eventually completed.
I discovered that I'm a lousy tank when I don't know the mechanics...
The group was completely carried by the other dps - a stamsorc who had enough dps and survivability in ww to keep the group moving forward.

I think everyone had an ok time 'cause we were pretty chill about the whole thing...
The takeaway is: even bad PUGs can be good/ok PUGs if you come with the right attitude...

TempPlayer · November 2019

Using the group finder is like swimming in public pool. It is cheaper than building your own, and you may even enjoy it and have a good time. But more than likely, you are swimming in someone else ***.
Good luck.

lagrue · November 2019

Well on one hand you have healers who get mad if you do stack. On the other hand you have healers who get made if you keep moving and dodging the AoE's etc.

I guess most of DPS and Tank players have just gotten used to being cussed out in chat because the healer can't do their job right, and so now alot of us just stand still to make it easier for potato healers. (in pugs anyway)

mocap · November 2019

stay away from Alcast healer builds if you are in dungeon. He did them for trials only.

A true PUG healer is a very adaptive build which can adapt to any situations. Low DPS? Healer switch to DD, drop Extended Ritual and do damage. Good DPS? Use War Horn then to rise it even more, throw orbs etc.

webrgesner · November 2019

honestly most of the contents and situations dps should be keeping themselves alive and the healers role is to buff the damage and debuff boss. its dps job to heal themselves and block when theyre getting hit. healers job to heal is like 30% and the rest is giving tank and dps orbs/shards for sustain and boosting their dps