The Summoner's Quandry

EramTheLiar · April 2014

I like playing sorcerers. I find I like the summoning line a bit (Daedric Curse is a very underrated spell in my opinion) but I've run into something of a quandry--that is, if you invest heavily in summoning you wind sacrificing quite a bit, and I'm not sure how best to work around it.

What do you sacrifice, you ask? Well, six slots and 30% of your magicka. 30% of your magicka is an unfortunate but understandible sacrificate to make, but six slots, jeez, that's where it hurts.

In detail:

So I run around with the Clannfear summon pretty much all the time, because it seems to tank fairly well and so far it's proven to be rather durable. I'm starting to appreciate the Dremora as well, because aside from giving you decent air support from what I understand when you get a chance to fork it you can choose to either boost party magicka or heal you any time you drop below 35% health (one every 30 seconds I think).

And the Daedric Armor spell looks ridiculously good, on paper at least. I'm hard pressed to think of a reason not to use it.

The nice thing about these spells is that they're persistent. You sacrifice 30% of your magicka to keep them running. Unfortunately, they also take up a spell slot, so you have to work around that...

... well, no, after level 15 they actually take up TWO spell slots.

See, if you switch your weapon, and your summing spells aren't on the other skill bar, your summoned creatures go away. So if I want my Clannfear up when I switch between my Inferno Staff and my dual swords, I need to make sure that the summon clannfear spell is on BOTH my staff skill bar and my dual swords skill bar.

So if I decided to go all out and have a clannfear, dremora, AND daedric armor up, that means that on each skill bar I have two spaces to allocate to "externally facing incident management."

I won't deny that I find that annoying--I'm not just sacrificing my mana, I'm also sacrificing the utility of having extra slots available for other things. But I'm pretty sure the developers were well aware of this, and that it's an intended side effect of running around with all those summons. So my question is, how best to use those four extra slots?

And also, how best to use those spells without accidentally detoggling my summoned creatures, which for the record I manage to do ALL THE TIME.

Any thoughts or recommendations? Preferably both, together?

Sarenia · April 2014

Well, I think you have to consider summoning abstractly to appreciate the ESO summoner.

- Why does one summon minions?

The core answer to that question in most cases is "auxiliary defense". They act as your damage, and your shield. They put a buffer between you and the enemy.

In exchange for this auxillary defense and damage, you pay the price of magicka, where the usual DPS sorcerer would exchange magicka for more raw damage instead. The more summons you have, the greater price you pay, and the greater defense/offense you gain through your pets.

Personally, as a pure summoner, I would forfeit the idea of also being a DPSer. Turn your attentions to using a healing staff and keeping your pets in the action. Instead of getting a clannfear to tank, get the pet that explodes for AOE damage. Re-summon him between explosions.

Treat your character as nothing but a magicka battery to keep those pets active and doing as much damage as possible, whilst buffering you. Use fullplate armor instead of light armor, because you need to stay alive to keep supporting your pets, and your damage won't be marvelous anyway compared to a pure DPS sorcerer.

Obviously this all describes one singular route of play and thinking, there are others.

Lynx7386 · April 2014

It's no different than any other class having to put an ability on both action bars if they want to use it with both weapon sets they've got equipped.

Stop looking at them like summon and forget pets, and start realizing that they're damaging (and in some cases utility-providing) spells.

If you were able to summon them on one action bar and then switch to another, you'd essentially be gaining 2-3 extra skill slots without giving up the effects of those skills. It would be no different if they gave sorcerors 3 extra slots on their action bar but didnt do that for every other class.

The current system works perfectly fine, and just as it was intended to work.

EramTheLiar · April 2014

Um... OK, Lynx, please go back and re-read my initial post. Actually, I'll just quote the relevant text for you:

I won't deny that I find that annoying--I'm not just sacrificing my mana, I'm also sacrificing the utility of having extra slots available for other things. But I'm pretty sure the developers were well aware of this, and that it's an intended side effect of running around with all those summons. So my question is, how best to use those four extra slots?

That whole part at the beginning that you started to read and then skipped over because you assumed it was a "omg this is broken plz fix kthxbai" (which hey, that's fair enough, there are certainly a lot of those in the forums) was my attempt to describe the resource problem I was trying to puzzle through. That's why I called the thread "Summoner's Quandry" instead of "FIX SUMMONERS" or however the kids do that these days. Yes, I did say it was annoying, and I stand by that -- it's annoying. (Other things that are annoying: I do not have instant "I win" button, I do not have all epic gear, in real life I do not have a pony. ) But since, as I say above, I'm sure it's an intended side effect of running around with all those summons up, I was asking for advice on how best to use the few remaining slots.

Lord_Hev · April 2014

Dremora? WHAT? I think you mean the Winged Twilight. How you got two completely polar opposite Daedra mixed up is beyond me.

Yes, we need a summon Dremora spell. you know, the humanoid daedra that instill fear in you by merely speaking in their demonic voices while charging you with a Daedric fire enchanted Greatsword. And yes, summoning needs and should be expanded on, so we get even more summons. Preferably through it's own unique class. But adding it as a separate "world" skill-line could work too. Though, I'd prefer it to be limited to only a class. Hence, a specialized summoner class[both conjuration and necromancy would fall here.]

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Stop looking at them like summon and forget pets, and start realizing that they're damaging (and in some cases utility-providing) spells.

I agree, except... That's not how ZOS made it work. If so, then they failed. In order for THAT to work[which I would prefer as a summoner in previous TES games] Summons should not be toggle-ble. Because ZOS made them toggle-ble, they had to "balance" that by making them weak.

Now compare to the temporary duration summon Storm Atronach. Granted, he's an ultimate ability, and as such is over-powered as he should be...

Now just lower that by a magnitude, and you have efficient summoning for that purpose of damage and serving as a buffer, and not going ultimate over-kill.

They need to be a THREAT on the battle-field. The balanced way of having a threatening "pet" is to have one that you cannot just cast and forget. It needs to be used as a spell. You enter battle, then you HAVE to cast 50% of your magicka off-the-bat. What do you get in return? Sure, you just gimped your magic-pool... but you just summoned a duration-restricted daedra that packs a punch, and takes a hit. A DPS minion that the opponent cannot just carelessly ignore without taking a severe beating.

So your threatening, utility providing, minion is balanced by the fact that you sacrifice a usual offensive spell on your hotbar AND you have to cast it like a spell. You may be able[if you can anticipate battle] to summon a 30 second summon before engaging in battle, but at least it's not permanent. This makes summoning TACTICAL. not just, "toggle cast and forget in exchange for a weak summon enemies can just ignore."

Thoughts?

EramTheLiar · April 2014

Ha! Yes. Winged Twilight. I... have no excuse. *hangs head in shame*