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Why are the majority of sets just trash?
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »pma_pacifier wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »A tiny selection of just hilarious trash set:
https://eso-sets.com/set/sergeants-mail
https://eso-sets.com/set/queens-elegance
https://eso-sets.com/set/call-of-the-undertaker
https://eso-sets.com/set/crusader
Some of the stats on those sets aren't really bad, but the 5-piece set bonus is just utter trash.
How about making more sets useful instead of pumping more and more sets into the game with each new update?
hi sir,
are the existence of these sets giving you any problems or causing any issues for you?
:'( ???
With that Attitude the devs could add 90% litter and just a handful of effective sets, forcing you in a very neat meta. No, it doesn't pains anyone phsically that some useless sets exist. But it's still a waste of opportunities.
Everybody and their mother wears BS, TK and Balrogh as stam in PvP because the alternatives are rather useless. Wouldn't it be nice to have a bigger pool of good sets to choose from?
Note that I'm not arguing to rework sets that enable niche builds, just that some sets are beyound useless. Why slot A-W when they are all worse than X, Y or Z?
Doesn’t that rather suggest that no one in PvP is inventive enough to have found an effective counter to that?
PvP does seem to be rammed full of players whose idea of gameplay is simply to conform to the current ideological ‘best build’.
Maybe they should simply sell Flavour of the Month builds for PvP in the Crown Store. 20,000 Crowns a time.
Not all sets are designed for endgame PvPpma_pacifier wrote: »
So tell me whats the point? There will always be a spectrum of "useless" sets to "good" sets, and I guess with your strong context and requirement in PVP. But I don't see any problem unless there are huge gaps in the meta to maximize a certain role and that these useless sets will always be there for the memeing or some random fun use in pve/pvp.
There are already the existence of good sets with the inherent bonuses required to be competent and be considered good. These "good" sets tend to have similar strengths and bonuses, with some variances in their set bonuses. However meta will always be the same until they implement substantive changes with new sets introduced like the new moon set introducing a newer or perhaps better meta. People start using the new sets, old sets get outclassed, people will protest how old sets are now useless. However, if a newer set that was introduced were to be not any different than the current meta, guess what? It becomes a useless set easily by your definition. Same thing happens.
That's a bit myopic and sounds like an excuse or scapegoat for ZoS to not do the their work (of creating a balanced and fun experience).
Tl;dR: It's not (always) about theorycrafting or the lack thereof and meta chasing. Some sets are just inferior. You shove the blame from Zeni to the players. But feel free to come up with an effective build that involves Morkuldin, Spawn of Mephala, Ashen Grip or the likes.
[E: A question I read in some other thread: Would you rather play a game where every set has it's strengths and it's hard to choose which way to build because there are so many good options or would you rather play a game where everything is hot garbage and you just choose the lesser evil?]
I don't know how often you guys PvP but there are many dudes running off-meta builds. It's not like there is only 1-2 build per class that is viable, but you still have to build somewhat effective.
You could also view FoTm from multiple angles. As counter to former FotM (high gank dmg led to tankier builds which in turn pushed people to use more defiles and bleeds etc.), as well as adaption to the nerf-pendelum (dots get buffed by 100% -> classes with easy dot removal prevail).
However I think Zeni did a good job on e.g. how they changed the heavy armor dmg sets. Fury, 7th, Ravager are all useful but have very different proc conditions. Well, they didn't do any favour with Veiled Heritance but the rest was okay. Interesting that NMA is mentioned which is actually one of the sets that CAN be better but isn't plain BiS as it has a tradeoff bound to it.
They also put the 3 piece sets up to speed. I don't imagine anyone complaining about that.
But maybe we're just talking past each other. "Bad" sets don't suddenly have to become BiS. Niche/ fun/ RP builds are a thing and should stay a thing. But you can't honestly be the opinion that Ashen Grip or Morkuldin are what you would call a good and nice set. And any RP'er using those would gladly take a buff to them.
Also it's not my job to calculate the point where those become somewhat on par. The devs get paid to pour in their creativity and knowledge to make this game a fun and balanced experience. I just pay for it.Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on November 2, 2019 3:14PM2 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »That's a bit myopic and sounds like an excuse or scapegoat for ZoS to not do the their work (of creating a balanced and fun experience). .
But why are you making the assumption that "all sets must be Endgame Valid in order to have a Balanced & Fun Experience™" and that "have all sets be Endgame Valid" at all is ZoS's goal? If they never intended to do that, then not doing it isn't "laziness", it's following their design goals.
Sets used while leveling, sets used for super-niche builds, sets that just aren't that great as a learning experience for players and/or something to graduate from as you get "better" gear.... these all seem like perfectly fine things to me.
(and remember - just like not everyone cares about Meta, not everyone rushes their leveling or thinks that "the game only starts at level cap". There's folks out there who aren't going to be "only using those leveling sets for an hour".)
tl;dr - the game isn't (and shouldn't be) balanced around Just Endgame.5 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I wouldn’t be surprised if some of those sets weren’t horrible, like sergeants mail. Sometimes when you look at the websites for sets the tooltip is really low, but in game it’s a lot more powerful.
Still, some of those sets are probably really bad.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭I wouldn’t be surprised if some of those sets weren’t horrible, like sergeants mail. Sometimes when you look at the websites for sets the tooltip is really low, but in game it’s a lot more powerful.
Still, some of those sets are probably really bad.
Sergeant's Mail isn't horrible, but it could use a slight buff. I don't have the math handy but I recall having determined even on a Heavy Armor StamDK I'm better off figuring out a way to incorporate Knight Slayer than using Sergeant's Mail.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭While we're on that subject Kvatch Gladiator could stand a slight buff as well.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
lagrue✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't really see how elegance is a trash set.
Now don't get me wrong, better alternatives exist. But you should have noticed by now that the usefulness of sets is rather tiered, with world dropped sets being relatively easy to get, but with so very few having any value in end game play. Most of the better sets in this game come from meatier content like dungeons, or later tiers of crafting. Then trials of course.
These easy to acquire sets are for the little guy, and elegance can be good. My main can slap out 25,000 heavy attacks... if I Swapped off my least good set, I would lose some fire damage... but man my heavies would be hitting 30k. Basically one shot all overland PVE.
Perfect for the players who stomp in those grounds.
Not everybody can be running around in lolgodmode veteran gears and trials gear, and not all gear can perform at the same level or else nobody would run high end content because overworld sets would be just as good, and arguably easier to obtain.Edited by lagrue on November 3, 2019 2:39AM"You must defeat me every time. I need defeat you only once"1 -
Defilted✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bad sets define good sets. Therefore in order to have good sets you must have its opposite.Edited by Defilted on November 20, 2019 5:14PMXBOX NA
XBOX Series X
#NightmareBear3 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We had a lot of good sets. But because of whining many recieved nerfs, justified or not, ZOS doesn't know how to adjust things, they simply do it like this:
Decrease strength by 50%, increase cooldown twice - balanced. Next!
I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.1 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is another episode oooooofff.....
IF THIS ISN'T META, THEN IT'S TRASH!
presenting:
Meta chasers!
Wannabe elite players!
Frustrated younglings in epen measuring contests!
All the usual suspects! The same fun as always, with 6 more sets this time around!1 -
daedalusAI✭✭✭✭✭This is another episode oooooofff.....
IF THIS ISN'T META, THEN IT'S TRASH!
presenting:
Meta chasers!
Wannabe elite players!
Frustrated younglings in epen measuring contests!
All the usual suspects! The same fun as always, with 6 more sets this time around!
Why does your kind - who obviously couldn't care less about the topic of a thread - still feel the urge to post?
Tell me a build using the 5-piece effect of Crusader.2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
tl;dr - the game isn't (and shouldn't be) balanced around Just Endgame.
Well, at least that I can agree on.
Still, wouldn't hurt to buff up some underperforming sets.0 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »This is another episode oooooofff.....
IF THIS ISN'T META, THEN IT'S TRASH!
presenting:
Meta chasers!
Wannabe elite players!
Frustrated younglings in epen measuring contests!
All the usual suspects! The same fun as always, with 6 more sets this time around!
Why does your kind - who obviously couldn't care less about the topic of a thread - still feel the urge to post?
Tell me a build using the 5-piece effect of Crusader.
Any build I give you with any set, if it's not meta, you'll say it's trash. Why would I bother?
And I post because people like you, or that read what you say and can't think for themselves, will come to my guild chat spewing this elitist garbage on players that couldn't care less about being top DPS and just want fun builds, discouraging them to try new things, perpetuating this meta chasing nonsense on people that won't benefit at-freaking-all from better/top gear.
I made it my mission to be a voice against such blind, dumb, empty arguments meta chase evangelists.
And among my guildies, I've shown some really effective and interesting builds comprised of totally off meta gear, exactly to show my other guildies that, no, you don't need that 500k staff, that 100k ring or 80k chest piece to be effective. Don't but into that crap of you're not at the skill level in which great gear makes a difference.5 -
jao0199✭✭✭Grianasteri wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »A tiny selection of just hilarious trash set:
https://eso-sets.com/set/sergeants-mail
https://eso-sets.com/set/queens-elegance
https://eso-sets.com/set/call-of-the-undertaker
https://eso-sets.com/set/crusader
Some of the stats on those sets aren't really bad, but the 5-piece set bonus is just utter trash.
How about making more sets useful instead of pumping more and more sets into the game with each new update?
Hmmn...
Ive actually been planning to theory craft and create a heavy attack stam build, to specifically make use of sets like Sergeants Mail. There are extremely viable high dps heavy attack builds for magica, I imagine similar can be achieved with Sergeants and/or something like Undaunted unweaver.
.
Ewww
1 -
Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Zeni likes to trash sets.
Example: In the past, you would chose from warrior poet and plague doctor, among other sets, to get high HP.
Then they trashed PD, saying that there is no reason to grant so much life on 5P bonus.
Now PD is trash, and WP is better.
EZZZZZZZZ
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StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »A tiny selection of just hilarious trash set:
https://eso-sets.com/set/sergeants-mail
https://eso-sets.com/set/queens-elegance
https://eso-sets.com/set/call-of-the-undertaker
https://eso-sets.com/set/crusader
Some of the stats on those sets aren't really bad, but the 5-piece set bonus is just utter trash.
How about making more sets useful instead of pumping more and more sets into the game with each new update?
I've said this before in regards to the Lamia's Song set. I like the concept of the five piece bonus as a healer/off-dps, but boy does it feel underwhelming. I don't understand why these older sets don't get brought up to competitive levels. There's a short list of sets that are actually worth picking up and it sucks being the guy trying hard to be different and still viable.0 -
GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭We need stuff for decon to get mats, trait gems/stones and leveling up our crafting skills.0 -
mague✭✭✭✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »A tiny selection of just hilarious trash set:
https://eso-sets.com/set/sergeants-mail
https://eso-sets.com/set/queens-elegance
https://eso-sets.com/set/call-of-the-undertaker
https://eso-sets.com/set/crusader
Some of the stats on those sets aren't really bad, but the 5-piece set bonus is just utter trash.
How about making more sets useful instead of pumping more and more sets into the game with each new update?
YES. I dont use blue ones. Lets delete them
1 -
daedalusAI✭✭✭✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »Those obsessed with min-maxing will simply never understand the value of sets they perceive to be less than optimal for situation X, Y, or Z. Thankfully, the developers of this game do. They understand that "useful" - especially from the limited perspective of min-maxers - often isn't the point for a significant number of people who play this game. For my part, I care far less about "useful" than I do about "fun." It's why I don't touch many of the so-called "useful" sets because they are boring.
I didn't talk about min-maxing.
The burden of proof is on you considering your very broad statement after I've given specific sets with are utter trash.
Tell me how e.g. Crusader is useful or fun.
Burden of proof? Hahahahahah! This isn't a formal debate... it's a recreational web forum. It doesn't take much of one's own think work - if one has a fair amount of creativity and an imagination - to come up with ideas for oneself. The onus is on us as individual players to make things work (or not) for us and to use them (or not) as we see fit. Just because one of us concludes "meh, this set is boring/trash/icky" doesn't make it so for everyone, much less make it necessary for the developers to rework those sets. I mean, if I gave two $#@%s about PvP I might use a set like Crusader on my character who does a lot of dodge rolling. Except that it's a dungeon set and I almost never use those, so... basically any set locked behind group content is "trash" to me regardless of what it actually does.
So it "doesn't take much...to come up with ideas", but when faced with telling me how Crusader is useful for fun you come up with nothing.
Intriguing.daedalusAI wrote: »This is another episode oooooofff.....
IF THIS ISN'T META, THEN IT'S TRASH!
presenting:
Meta chasers!
Wannabe elite players!
Frustrated younglings in epen measuring contests!
All the usual suspects! The same fun as always, with 6 more sets this time around!
Why does your kind - who obviously couldn't care less about the topic of a thread - still feel the urge to post?
Tell me a build using the 5-piece effect of Crusader.
Any build I give you with any set, if it's not meta, you'll say it's trash. Why would I bother?
And I post because people like you, or that read what you say and can't think for themselves, will come to my guild chat spewing this elitist garbage on players that couldn't care less about being top DPS and just want fun builds, discouraging them to try new things, perpetuating this meta chasing nonsense on people that won't benefit at-freaking-all from better/top gear.
I made it my mission to be a voice against such blind, dumb, empty arguments meta chase evangelists.
And among my guildies, I've shown some really effective and interesting builds comprised of totally off meta gear, exactly to show my other guildies that, no, you don't need that 500k staff, that 100k ring or 80k chest piece to be effective. Don't but into that crap of you're not at the skill level in which great gear makes a difference.
When pressed with providing a build which uses a trash set with an utter garbage set bonus you just run away and claim I surely will behave a certain way? Utterly pathetic.
You proved my point of sets being trash, or else you would've been able to come up with a build for e.g. Crusader, right?
Yet again you talk about "fun builds" while you refuse to provide an actual build using the set bonus of Crusader.
And enlighten me how pointing out the fact that most sets are trash is "elitist".
Crusader increases the dodge chance bonus of Roll Dodge by 0.3 seconds. That is utter trash in my books.
How much is that "some really effective and interesting builds" using off-meta sets in numbers?
I'll wait for your build using Crusader.1 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Those obsessed with min-maxing will simply never understand the value of sets they perceive to be less than optimal for situation X, Y, or Z. Thankfully, the developers of this game do. They understand that "useful" - especially from the limited perspective of min-maxers - often isn't the point for a significant number of people who play this game. For my part, I care far less about "useful" than I do about "fun." It's why I don't touch many of the so-called "useful" sets because they are boring.
I didn't talk about min-maxing.
The burden of proof is on you considering your very broad statement after I've given specific sets with are utter trash.
Tell me how e.g. Crusader is useful or fun.
Burden of proof? Hahahahahah! This isn't a formal debate... it's a recreational web forum. It doesn't take much of one's own think work - if one has a fair amount of creativity and an imagination - to come up with ideas for oneself. The onus is on us as individual players to make things work (or not) for us and to use them (or not) as we see fit. Just because one of us concludes "meh, this set is boring/trash/icky" doesn't make it so for everyone, much less make it necessary for the developers to rework those sets. I mean, if I gave two $#@%s about PvP I might use a set like Crusader on my character who does a lot of dodge rolling. Except that it's a dungeon set and I almost never use those, so... basically any set locked behind group content is "trash" to me regardless of what it actually does.
So it "doesn't take much...to come up with ideas", but when faced with telling me how Crusader is useful for fun you come up with nothing.
Intriguing.daedalusAI wrote: »This is another episode oooooofff.....
IF THIS ISN'T META, THEN IT'S TRASH!
presenting:
Meta chasers!
Wannabe elite players!
Frustrated younglings in epen measuring contests!
All the usual suspects! The same fun as always, with 6 more sets this time around!
Why does your kind - who obviously couldn't care less about the topic of a thread - still feel the urge to post?
Tell me a build using the 5-piece effect of Crusader.
Any build I give you with any set, if it's not meta, you'll say it's trash. Why would I bother?
And I post because people like you, or that read what you say and can't think for themselves, will come to my guild chat spewing this elitist garbage on players that couldn't care less about being top DPS and just want fun builds, discouraging them to try new things, perpetuating this meta chasing nonsense on people that won't benefit at-freaking-all from better/top gear.
I made it my mission to be a voice against such blind, dumb, empty arguments meta chase evangelists.
And among my guildies, I've shown some really effective and interesting builds comprised of totally off meta gear, exactly to show my other guildies that, no, you don't need that 500k staff, that 100k ring or 80k chest piece to be effective. Don't but into that crap of you're not at the skill level in which great gear makes a difference.
When pressed with providing a build which uses a trash set with an utter garbage set bonus you just run away and claim I surely will behave a certain way? Utterly pathetic.
You proved my point of sets being trash, or else you would've been able to come up with a build for e.g. Crusader, right?
Yet again you talk about "fun builds" while you refuse to provide an actual build using the set bonus of Crusader.
And enlighten me how pointing out the fact that most sets are trash is "elitist".
Crusader increases the dodge chance bonus of Roll Dodge by 0.3 seconds. That is utter trash in my books.
How much is that "some really effective and interesting builds" using off-meta sets in numbers?
I'll wait for your build using Crusader.
So you went from "majority of sets are trash" to "crusader crusader crusader"? You're funny.3 -
daedalusAI✭✭✭✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Those obsessed with min-maxing will simply never understand the value of sets they perceive to be less than optimal for situation X, Y, or Z. Thankfully, the developers of this game do. They understand that "useful" - especially from the limited perspective of min-maxers - often isn't the point for a significant number of people who play this game. For my part, I care far less about "useful" than I do about "fun." It's why I don't touch many of the so-called "useful" sets because they are boring.
I didn't talk about min-maxing.
The burden of proof is on you considering your very broad statement after I've given specific sets with are utter trash.
Tell me how e.g. Crusader is useful or fun.
Burden of proof? Hahahahahah! This isn't a formal debate... it's a recreational web forum. It doesn't take much of one's own think work - if one has a fair amount of creativity and an imagination - to come up with ideas for oneself. The onus is on us as individual players to make things work (or not) for us and to use them (or not) as we see fit. Just because one of us concludes "meh, this set is boring/trash/icky" doesn't make it so for everyone, much less make it necessary for the developers to rework those sets. I mean, if I gave two $#@%s about PvP I might use a set like Crusader on my character who does a lot of dodge rolling. Except that it's a dungeon set and I almost never use those, so... basically any set locked behind group content is "trash" to me regardless of what it actually does.
So it "doesn't take much...to come up with ideas", but when faced with telling me how Crusader is useful for fun you come up with nothing.
Intriguing.daedalusAI wrote: »This is another episode oooooofff.....
IF THIS ISN'T META, THEN IT'S TRASH!
presenting:
Meta chasers!
Wannabe elite players!
Frustrated younglings in epen measuring contests!
All the usual suspects! The same fun as always, with 6 more sets this time around!
Why does your kind - who obviously couldn't care less about the topic of a thread - still feel the urge to post?
Tell me a build using the 5-piece effect of Crusader.
Any build I give you with any set, if it's not meta, you'll say it's trash. Why would I bother?
And I post because people like you, or that read what you say and can't think for themselves, will come to my guild chat spewing this elitist garbage on players that couldn't care less about being top DPS and just want fun builds, discouraging them to try new things, perpetuating this meta chasing nonsense on people that won't benefit at-freaking-all from better/top gear.
I made it my mission to be a voice against such blind, dumb, empty arguments meta chase evangelists.
And among my guildies, I've shown some really effective and interesting builds comprised of totally off meta gear, exactly to show my other guildies that, no, you don't need that 500k staff, that 100k ring or 80k chest piece to be effective. Don't but into that crap of you're not at the skill level in which great gear makes a difference.
When pressed with providing a build which uses a trash set with an utter garbage set bonus you just run away and claim I surely will behave a certain way? Utterly pathetic.
You proved my point of sets being trash, or else you would've been able to come up with a build for e.g. Crusader, right?
Yet again you talk about "fun builds" while you refuse to provide an actual build using the set bonus of Crusader.
And enlighten me how pointing out the fact that most sets are trash is "elitist".
Crusader increases the dodge chance bonus of Roll Dodge by 0.3 seconds. That is utter trash in my books.
How much is that "some really effective and interesting builds" using off-meta sets in numbers?
I'll wait for your build using Crusader.
So you went from "majority of sets are trash" to "crusader crusader crusader"? You're funny.
The majority is still trash.
You proclaimed you make "fun and interesting builds using off-meta sets" - and yet when faced with providing a single build using the ultimate trash set Crusader you were only capable of running away claiming I'm "elitist".
That speaks volumes considering you still think there aren't any trash sets.Edited by daedalusAI on November 11, 2019 2:32PM1 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Those obsessed with min-maxing will simply never understand the value of sets they perceive to be less than optimal for situation X, Y, or Z. Thankfully, the developers of this game do. They understand that "useful" - especially from the limited perspective of min-maxers - often isn't the point for a significant number of people who play this game. For my part, I care far less about "useful" than I do about "fun." It's why I don't touch many of the so-called "useful" sets because they are boring.
I didn't talk about min-maxing.
The burden of proof is on you considering your very broad statement after I've given specific sets with are utter trash.
Tell me how e.g. Crusader is useful or fun.
Burden of proof? Hahahahahah! This isn't a formal debate... it's a recreational web forum. It doesn't take much of one's own think work - if one has a fair amount of creativity and an imagination - to come up with ideas for oneself. The onus is on us as individual players to make things work (or not) for us and to use them (or not) as we see fit. Just because one of us concludes "meh, this set is boring/trash/icky" doesn't make it so for everyone, much less make it necessary for the developers to rework those sets. I mean, if I gave two $#@%s about PvP I might use a set like Crusader on my character who does a lot of dodge rolling. Except that it's a dungeon set and I almost never use those, so... basically any set locked behind group content is "trash" to me regardless of what it actually does.
So it "doesn't take much...to come up with ideas", but when faced with telling me how Crusader is useful for fun you come up with nothing.
Intriguing.daedalusAI wrote: »This is another episode oooooofff.....
IF THIS ISN'T META, THEN IT'S TRASH!
presenting:
Meta chasers!
Wannabe elite players!
Frustrated younglings in epen measuring contests!
All the usual suspects! The same fun as always, with 6 more sets this time around!
Why does your kind - who obviously couldn't care less about the topic of a thread - still feel the urge to post?
Tell me a build using the 5-piece effect of Crusader.
Any build I give you with any set, if it's not meta, you'll say it's trash. Why would I bother?
And I post because people like you, or that read what you say and can't think for themselves, will come to my guild chat spewing this elitist garbage on players that couldn't care less about being top DPS and just want fun builds, discouraging them to try new things, perpetuating this meta chasing nonsense on people that won't benefit at-freaking-all from better/top gear.
I made it my mission to be a voice against such blind, dumb, empty arguments meta chase evangelists.
And among my guildies, I've shown some really effective and interesting builds comprised of totally off meta gear, exactly to show my other guildies that, no, you don't need that 500k staff, that 100k ring or 80k chest piece to be effective. Don't but into that crap of you're not at the skill level in which great gear makes a difference.
When pressed with providing a build which uses a trash set with an utter garbage set bonus you just run away and claim I surely will behave a certain way? Utterly pathetic.
You proved my point of sets being trash, or else you would've been able to come up with a build for e.g. Crusader, right?
Yet again you talk about "fun builds" while you refuse to provide an actual build using the set bonus of Crusader.
And enlighten me how pointing out the fact that most sets are trash is "elitist".
Crusader increases the dodge chance bonus of Roll Dodge by 0.3 seconds. That is utter trash in my books.
How much is that "some really effective and interesting builds" using off-meta sets in numbers?
I'll wait for your build using Crusader.
So you went from "majority of sets are trash" to "crusader crusader crusader"? You're funny.
The majority is still trash.
You proclaimed you make "fun and interesting builds using off-meta sets" - and yet when faced with providing a single build using the ultimate trash set Crusader you were only capable of running away claiming I'm "elitist".
That speaks volumes considering you still think there aren't any trash sets.
Get a wood elf, senche bite and crusader, and you'll have yourself a good roll dodge PvP build. Excellent for close quarters, very defensive and survivable. I'm not giving you any more than that because I do run this build. Used to have eternal hunt but I put in crusader just to *** you off. Turned out great and even more defensive than eternal hunt.
If you can't think for yourself, off meta, it's fine. Go follow alcast or whoever, and stop annoying us to give up out creative good builds that barely anyone else runs. And good luck trying to hit me while a very easily and joyfully roll Dodge away from everything you can possibly trow at me, again, and again, and again, until you claim that I'm cheating because you just don't understand how a set is supposed to work, or where and when to use it.
If you couldn't see how obviously PvP defensive crusader was by yourself, do everyone a favor and go play the game instead of wasting time in the forums. You'll learn more by actually trying stuff. Believe me. Download pts and try things out. You'd be truly surprised how easy it is to build with "trash" sets.
Except the ones that are truly bad, which isn't the case of crusader, or the majority of the sets.
Btw, thanks for the tip on crusader. You were so annoying about it, I had to actually test for a week, and I'm so satisfied. Even dropped a fully golded out eternal hunt for it. #worthit2 -
ghastley✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Take the argument to the extreme. Why does anything drop that's not part of a set? So that you have choices. The "bad" sets are just ones whose full-set bonuses are weak, or which suit the hybrid build that's relatively weak, but can be comfortable for solo play.
Al lot of the off-peak set pieces are viable as the components of a 5/3/2/2 build, where only one set is complete, but the two- or three-piece bonuses all contribute.
Several of my characters do their general adventuring with a non-set piece that we kept because it looks good, and can't be bothered spending on an outfit job to replicate it. We may swap it out for a dungeon, but low-level play can use low-level gear.1 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Really f-ing tempted to go for the new Crusader meta.
Beats the pants off what you’re wearing0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »
The Overload ultimate counts as light and heavy attack, so it's adding 20% damage to your Ultimate as well in the case of a sorc with Overlaod.The Moot Councillor0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭View eso sets like mtg cards and you will better come to terms. Weak ones needs to exist to define the strong ones.
0 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Those obsessed with min-maxing will simply never understand the value of sets they perceive to be less than optimal for situation X, Y, or Z. Thankfully, the developers of this game do. They understand that "useful" - especially from the limited perspective of min-maxers - often isn't the point for a significant number of people who play this game. For my part, I care far less about "useful" than I do about "fun." It's why I don't touch many of the so-called "useful" sets because they are boring.
I didn't talk about min-maxing.
The burden of proof is on you considering your very broad statement after I've given specific sets with are utter trash.
Tell me how e.g. Crusader is useful or fun.
Burden of proof? Hahahahahah! This isn't a formal debate... it's a recreational web forum. It doesn't take much of one's own think work - if one has a fair amount of creativity and an imagination - to come up with ideas for oneself. The onus is on us as individual players to make things work (or not) for us and to use them (or not) as we see fit. Just because one of us concludes "meh, this set is boring/trash/icky" doesn't make it so for everyone, much less make it necessary for the developers to rework those sets. I mean, if I gave two $#@%s about PvP I might use a set like Crusader on my character who does a lot of dodge rolling. Except that it's a dungeon set and I almost never use those, so... basically any set locked behind group content is "trash" to me regardless of what it actually does.
So it "doesn't take much...to come up with ideas", but when faced with telling me how Crusader is useful for fun you come up with nothing.
Intriguing.daedalusAI wrote: »This is another episode oooooofff.....
IF THIS ISN'T META, THEN IT'S TRASH!
presenting:
Meta chasers!
Wannabe elite players!
Frustrated younglings in epen measuring contests!
All the usual suspects! The same fun as always, with 6 more sets this time around!
Why does your kind - who obviously couldn't care less about the topic of a thread - still feel the urge to post?
Tell me a build using the 5-piece effect of Crusader.
Any build I give you with any set, if it's not meta, you'll say it's trash. Why would I bother?
And I post because people like you, or that read what you say and can't think for themselves, will come to my guild chat spewing this elitist garbage on players that couldn't care less about being top DPS and just want fun builds, discouraging them to try new things, perpetuating this meta chasing nonsense on people that won't benefit at-freaking-all from better/top gear.
I made it my mission to be a voice against such blind, dumb, empty arguments meta chase evangelists.
And among my guildies, I've shown some really effective and interesting builds comprised of totally off meta gear, exactly to show my other guildies that, no, you don't need that 500k staff, that 100k ring or 80k chest piece to be effective. Don't but into that crap of you're not at the skill level in which great gear makes a difference.
When pressed with providing a build which uses a trash set with an utter garbage set bonus you just run away and claim I surely will behave a certain way? Utterly pathetic.
You proved my point of sets being trash, or else you would've been able to come up with a build for e.g. Crusader, right?
Yet again you talk about "fun builds" while you refuse to provide an actual build using the set bonus of Crusader.
And enlighten me how pointing out the fact that most sets are trash is "elitist".
Crusader increases the dodge chance bonus of Roll Dodge by 0.3 seconds. That is utter trash in my books.
How much is that "some really effective and interesting builds" using off-meta sets in numbers?
I'll wait for your build using Crusader.
So you went from "majority of sets are trash" to "crusader crusader crusader"? You're funny.
The majority is still trash.
You proclaimed you make "fun and interesting builds using off-meta sets" - and yet when faced with providing a single build using the ultimate trash set Crusader you were only capable of running away claiming I'm "elitist".
That speaks volumes considering you still think there aren't any trash sets.
Get a wood elf, senche bite and crusader, and you'll have yourself a good roll dodge PvP build. Excellent for close quarters, very defensive and survivable. I'm not giving you any more than that because I do run this build. Used to have eternal hunt but I put in crusader just to *** you off. Turned out great and even more defensive than eternal hunt.
If you can't think for yourself, off meta, it's fine. Go follow alcast or whoever, and stop annoying us to give up out creative good builds that barely anyone else runs. And good luck trying to hit me while a very easily and joyfully roll Dodge away from everything you can possibly trow at me, again, and again, and again, until you claim that I'm cheating because you just don't understand how a set is supposed to work, or where and when to use it.
If you couldn't see how obviously PvP defensive crusader was by yourself, do everyone a favor and go play the game instead of wasting time in the forums. You'll learn more by actually trying stuff. Believe me. Download pts and try things out. You'd be truly surprised how easy it is to build with "trash" sets.
Except the ones that are truly bad, which isn't the case of crusader, or the majority of the sets.
Btw, thanks for the tip on crusader. You were so annoying about it, I had to actually test for a week, and I'm so satisfied. Even dropped a fully golded out eternal hunt for it. #worthit
"It took me an entire week to test out one of the most useless sets in the game."
Sick.
Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"1 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »Those obsessed with min-maxing will simply never understand the value of sets they perceive to be less than optimal for situation X, Y, or Z. Thankfully, the developers of this game do. They understand that "useful" - especially from the limited perspective of min-maxers - often isn't the point for a significant number of people who play this game. For my part, I care far less about "useful" than I do about "fun." It's why I don't touch many of the so-called "useful" sets because they are boring.
I didn't talk about min-maxing.
The burden of proof is on you considering your very broad statement after I've given specific sets with are utter trash.
Tell me how e.g. Crusader is useful or fun.
Burden of proof? Hahahahahah! This isn't a formal debate... it's a recreational web forum. It doesn't take much of one's own think work - if one has a fair amount of creativity and an imagination - to come up with ideas for oneself. The onus is on us as individual players to make things work (or not) for us and to use them (or not) as we see fit. Just because one of us concludes "meh, this set is boring/trash/icky" doesn't make it so for everyone, much less make it necessary for the developers to rework those sets. I mean, if I gave two $#@%s about PvP I might use a set like Crusader on my character who does a lot of dodge rolling. Except that it's a dungeon set and I almost never use those, so... basically any set locked behind group content is "trash" to me regardless of what it actually does.
So it "doesn't take much...to come up with ideas", but when faced with telling me how Crusader is useful for fun you come up with nothing.
Intriguing.daedalusAI wrote: »This is another episode oooooofff.....
IF THIS ISN'T META, THEN IT'S TRASH!
presenting:
Meta chasers!
Wannabe elite players!
Frustrated younglings in epen measuring contests!
All the usual suspects! The same fun as always, with 6 more sets this time around!
Why does your kind - who obviously couldn't care less about the topic of a thread - still feel the urge to post?
Tell me a build using the 5-piece effect of Crusader.
Any build I give you with any set, if it's not meta, you'll say it's trash. Why would I bother?
And I post because people like you, or that read what you say and can't think for themselves, will come to my guild chat spewing this elitist garbage on players that couldn't care less about being top DPS and just want fun builds, discouraging them to try new things, perpetuating this meta chasing nonsense on people that won't benefit at-freaking-all from better/top gear.
I made it my mission to be a voice against such blind, dumb, empty arguments meta chase evangelists.
And among my guildies, I've shown some really effective and interesting builds comprised of totally off meta gear, exactly to show my other guildies that, no, you don't need that 500k staff, that 100k ring or 80k chest piece to be effective. Don't but into that crap of you're not at the skill level in which great gear makes a difference.
When pressed with providing a build which uses a trash set with an utter garbage set bonus you just run away and claim I surely will behave a certain way? Utterly pathetic.
You proved my point of sets being trash, or else you would've been able to come up with a build for e.g. Crusader, right?
Yet again you talk about "fun builds" while you refuse to provide an actual build using the set bonus of Crusader.
And enlighten me how pointing out the fact that most sets are trash is "elitist".
Crusader increases the dodge chance bonus of Roll Dodge by 0.3 seconds. That is utter trash in my books.
How much is that "some really effective and interesting builds" using off-meta sets in numbers?
I'll wait for your build using Crusader.
So you went from "majority of sets are trash" to "crusader crusader crusader"? You're funny.
The majority is still trash.
You proclaimed you make "fun and interesting builds using off-meta sets" - and yet when faced with providing a single build using the ultimate trash set Crusader you were only capable of running away claiming I'm "elitist".
That speaks volumes considering you still think there aren't any trash sets.
Get a wood elf, senche bite and crusader, and you'll have yourself a good roll dodge PvP build. Excellent for close quarters, very defensive and survivable. I'm not giving you any more than that because I do run this build. Used to have eternal hunt but I put in crusader just to *** you off. Turned out great and even more defensive than eternal hunt.
If you can't think for yourself, off meta, it's fine. Go follow alcast or whoever, and stop annoying us to give up out creative good builds that barely anyone else runs. And good luck trying to hit me while a very easily and joyfully roll Dodge away from everything you can possibly trow at me, again, and again, and again, until you claim that I'm cheating because you just don't understand how a set is supposed to work, or where and when to use it.
If you couldn't see how obviously PvP defensive crusader was by yourself, do everyone a favor and go play the game instead of wasting time in the forums. You'll learn more by actually trying stuff. Believe me. Download pts and try things out. You'd be truly surprised how easy it is to build with "trash" sets.
Except the ones that are truly bad, which isn't the case of crusader, or the majority of the sets.
Btw, thanks for the tip on crusader. You were so annoying about it, I had to actually test for a week, and I'm so satisfied. Even dropped a fully golded out eternal hunt for it. #worthit
"It took me an entire week to test out one of the most useless sets in the game."
Sick.
Opposite to what you seem to think, I have an actual life, and testing PvP requires repeat tries. You can go on a duel or two and think you're good, or get an unaware potato and hope this is test enough
And this set is FAR from being the worst one.
Or are you saying one week wasn't enough?
Hard for my brain to handle all the stupid I've had thrown at me today.0 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The same reason 90% of enchantments are worthless. Solution: Make resistances matter, make damage types matter, and then have each zone cater to that type in a different way. (ice, fire, lightning, dark, light, normal, magic, oblivion, etc)1 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭@ZonasArch
My commendations to you for proving Crusader is not the worst set in the game. What would you vote for? Para Bellum?
Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1