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How to make Incap good again and Balanced.
Vlad9425
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In it's current state the Ult feels very poor for many types of engagements in PVP and leaves a lot to be desired. Here's a suggestion on how I would change the ability to be a good Ultimate for Stam NB again but also balanced with some trade offs.
Edited by Vlad9425 on November 3, 2019 8:33PM - Remove the cast time - The cast time change is ruining the flow of many engagements and most of the community hates this change made to many Ultimates, get rid of it.
- Increase cost of Incap to 75 Ultimate - This keeps it a low cost Ultimate but this will tie more into a change I want to suggest further on.
- Reintroduce the stun which will be available as soon as you reach 75 Ult and Onward, remove the silence - The silence was a failed experiment and needs to go, the stun will offer much better Utility and value to the ability.
- At 150 Ultimate (double cost of base Ult) introduce Major Defile to the ability - For saving up twice the amount of Ultimate Nightblades can get access to Defile which can be used to fight heavy healing builds allowing the player to save up ultimate if they feel they are fighting a build which has access to strong heals.
- Reduce the damage of the Ultimate by 5% - This is a tradeoff to the proposed changes I've listed above, Incap will still hit reasonably hard but will be more utility based rather than a huge tooltip ability.
The 20% Increased damage against opponents would remain unchanged as this is a Unique buff to the ability. The Minor Reave portion of the ability could possibly be removed too or kept in but I don't feel it's a huge aspect of the ability so maybe worth discussing below.
Please leave feedback below on my ideas for this Ult
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Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would be all for all changes you list aside from re-introducing the stun. The stun was one of the buggiest stuns in the game. Your character would freeze for half a second before actually getting stunned and pinned to the ground. That extra delay made the skill an enormous pain to deal with.6 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Why not have to bonus damage apply to any enemies hit for the duration? Similar to how onslaught provides penetration to all damage done to any enemy.0
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Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I would be all for all changes you list aside from re-introducing the stun. The stun was one of the buggiest stuns in the game. Your character would freeze for half a second before actually getting stunned and pinned to the ground. That extra delay made the skill an enormous pain to deal with.
That’s lag you’re speaking of. The stun could easily be broken quick if you react fast which you have to do for every CC in the game anyway.1 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭The silence is actually the best counter to block available to NBs, I don't know why you'd want to change that to yet another blockable/dodgeable stun when there's already multiple ways to get one (SA from cloak, off balance stun etc).
Definitely agreed on the cast time though, it feels clunky and... wrong for a class that's supposed to be about fast paced action (I'll say, the cast time makes sense on Onslaught though).0 -
Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I dunno about the stun peeps already hitting 12k with the spectral bow in non cp
You can get hit by a Dawnbreaker and stunned then by spectral bow and the DB dot which follows so I’m not sure how an Incap stun would be a gamebreaker. Also before the stun was removed people were already recovering from the Incap stun in combat unless they didn’t know how to CC break.2 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would be all for all changes you list aside from re-introducing the stun. The stun was one of the buggiest stuns in the game. Your character would freeze for half a second before actually getting stunned and pinned to the ground. That extra delay made the skill an enormous pain to deal with.
I mean if you had a 3 sec delay on your personal reaction time, maybe.Wuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions2 -
Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The silence is actually the best counter to block available to NBs, I don't know why you'd want to change that to yet another blockable/dodgeable stun when there's already multiple ways to get one (SA from cloak, off balance stun etc).
Definitely agreed on the cast time though, it feels clunky and... wrong for a class that's supposed to be about fast paced action (I'll say, the cast time makes sense on Onslaught though).
Fear is a much better counter than that pathetic silence to block and that’s just a regular ability and not an Ult. The stun feels much better too gameplay wise and actually Incapacitates your opponent like the ability name suggests.0 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭The silence is actually the best counter to block available to NBs, I don't know why you'd want to change that to yet another blockable/dodgeable stun when there's already multiple ways to get one (SA from cloak, off balance stun etc).
Definitely agreed on the cast time though, it feels clunky and... wrong for a class that's supposed to be about fast paced action (I'll say, the cast time makes sense on Onslaught though).
Fear is a much better counter than that pathetic silence to block and that’s just a regular ability and not an Ult. The stun feels much better too gameplay wise and actually Incapacitates your opponent like the ability name suggests.
Sorry but fear is literally a waste of a skill slot, as well as magicka (or stamina in case of Turn Evil) and you should feel bad for slotting it.
Against a good player it does absolutely nothing as you deal zero damage with the fear and they break free immediately before any direct damage can be landed. It is more of a defensive CC, not an offensive one.
Silence on the other hand not only comes with damage attached to it but is also harder to notice & clunkier to break free from.Edited by Decimus on November 3, 2019 3:35PM5 -
NoodleESO✭✭✭✭✭I dunno about the stun peeps already hitting 12k with the spectral bow in non cp
You can get hit by a Dawnbreaker and stunned then by spectral bow and the DB dot which follows so I’m not sure how an Incap stun would be a gamebreaker. Also before the stun was removed people were already recovering from the Incap stun in combat unless they didn’t know how to CC break.
So just use dawnbreaker if you want an ultimate with a stun
every class in the game is stuck in the same boat why should night blade be different? no cast time on ulti? a stun? do you just want nb to be back on top againEdited by NoodleESO on November 3, 2019 3:39PM4 -
Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The silence is actually the best counter to block available to NBs, I don't know why you'd want to change that to yet another blockable/dodgeable stun when there's already multiple ways to get one (SA from cloak, off balance stun etc).
Definitely agreed on the cast time though, it feels clunky and... wrong for a class that's supposed to be about fast paced action (I'll say, the cast time makes sense on Onslaught though).
Fear is a much better counter than that pathetic silence to block and that’s just a regular ability and not an Ult. The stun feels much better too gameplay wise and actually Incapacitates your opponent like the ability name suggests.
Sorry but fear is literally a waste of a skill slot, as well as magicka (or stamina in case of Turn Evil) and you should feel bad for slotting it.
Against a good player it does absolutely nothing as you deal zero damage with the fear and they break free immediately before any direct damage can be landed. It is more of a defensive CC, not an offensive one.
Silence on the other hand not only comes with damage attached to it but is also harder to notice & clunkier to break free from.
Sorry but I disagree with that. The silence is very easy to deal with and I hardly notice it when I get hit by it and I play quite a squishy build. It works well against people who aren’t that good at PvP but you could argue most abilities in the game do too. Your point about fear is correct though and I would love to see it buffed in the future however I have had a fair few experiences where fear turned out to be extremely useful which I just don’t see with the silence.1 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Why not have to bonus damage apply to any enemies hit for the duration? Similar to how onslaught provides penetration to all damage done to any enemy.
No1 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Why not have to bonus damage apply to any enemies hit for the duration? Similar to how onslaught provides penetration to all damage done to any enemy.
No
Thanks for the in depth reasoning. I’ve yet to see a nightblade thread without you campaigning against it. Lol
Such dedication.3 -
Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I dunno about the stun peeps already hitting 12k with the spectral bow in non cp
You can get hit by a Dawnbreaker and stunned then by spectral bow and the DB dot which follows so I’m not sure how an Incap stun would be a gamebreaker. Also before the stun was removed people were already recovering from the Incap stun in combat unless they didn’t know how to CC break.
So just use dawnbreaker if you want an ultimate with a stun
every class in the game is stuck in the same boat why should night blade be different? no cast time on ulti? a stun? do you just want nb to be back on top again
For the record I want cast time to be removed from all the ultimates they decided to add it too not just Incap. Also you’re missing the point of the thread it’s not about using Dawnbreaker if I want a stun it’s about making Incap actually a good and interesting ability again.2 -
Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Royalthought wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Why not have to bonus damage apply to any enemies hit for the duration? Similar to how onslaught provides penetration to all damage done to any enemy.
No
Thanks for the in depth reasoning. I’ve yet to see a nightblade thread without you campaigning against it. Lol
Such dedication.
He is dedicated I’ll give him that...3 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Why not have to bonus damage apply to any enemies hit for the duration? Similar to how onslaught provides penetration to all damage done to any enemy.
No
Thanks for the in depth reasoning. I’ve yet to see a nightblade thread without you campaigning against it. Lol
Such dedication.
Why would you think applying bonus damage to multiple targets is a good thing?2 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The only way to make incap useful / worth slotting is to add identical skill, but better to a fighters guild skill line, available for everyone...
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Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Why not have to bonus damage apply to any enemies hit for the duration? Similar to how onslaught provides penetration to all damage done to any enemy.
No
Thanks for the in depth reasoning. I’ve yet to see a nightblade thread without you campaigning against it. Lol
Such dedication.
Why would you think applying bonus damage to multiple targets is a good thing?
Ever fought against a Zerg? Lol.
Tbh, you have an anti nightblade agenda. I could be mistaken but that’s all I’ve seen from you. So knowing how this goes, I won’t engage any further. Feel free to select another target.
Thanks
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StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Why not have to bonus damage apply to any enemies hit for the duration? Similar to how onslaught provides penetration to all damage done to any enemy.
No
Thanks for the in depth reasoning. I’ve yet to see a nightblade thread without you campaigning against it. Lol
Such dedication.
Why would you think applying bonus damage to multiple targets is a good thing?
Ever fought against a Zerg? Lol.
Tbh, you have an anti nightblade agenda. I could be mistaken but that’s all I’ve seen from you. So knowing how this goes, I won’t engage any further. Feel free to select another target.
Thanks
Why don’t you just slot onslaught instead of making incap better than universal ultimates?1 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Remove cast time, but add same exact delay that every other ult has. Thats all.
Any more is a nope from me.0 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Why not have to bonus damage apply to any enemies hit for the duration? Similar to how onslaught provides penetration to all damage done to any enemy.
No
Thanks for the in depth reasoning. I’ve yet to see a nightblade thread without you campaigning against it. Lol
Such dedication.
Why would you think applying bonus damage to multiple targets is a good thing?
Ever fought against a Zerg? Lol.
Tbh, you have an anti nightblade agenda. I could be mistaken but that’s all I’ve seen from you. So knowing how this goes, I won’t engage any further. Feel free to select another target.
Thanks
So, it makes sense to you that individual characters should be able to stand up to entire zergs?
This isn't Hollywood, where Aragorn leaps off the wall into the middle of a thousand orcs and we next see him heading in to the fortress. Large numbers vs small numbers Should be a problem in any conflict. People whine and cry about Zergs, but the fact is that they are effective. Changing skills so that individuals can stand up to zergs is not the answer. Putting together your Own Zerg to combat theirs is the answer.
And just for the record, I'm a PvE type. I don't have a dog in this race either way. Just an outside perspective looking in.
IMHO
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Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭barney2525 wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Why not have to bonus damage apply to any enemies hit for the duration? Similar to how onslaught provides penetration to all damage done to any enemy.
No
Thanks for the in depth reasoning. I’ve yet to see a nightblade thread without you campaigning against it. Lol
Such dedication.
Why would you think applying bonus damage to multiple targets is a good thing?
Ever fought against a Zerg? Lol.
Tbh, you have an anti nightblade agenda. I could be mistaken but that’s all I’ve seen from you. So knowing how this goes, I won’t engage any further. Feel free to select another target.
Thanks
So, it makes sense to you that individual characters should be able to stand up to entire zergs?
This isn't Hollywood, where Aragorn leaps off the wall into the middle of a thousand orcs and we next see him heading in to the fortress. Large numbers vs small numbers Should be a problem in any conflict. People whine and cry about Zergs, but the fact is that they are effective. Changing skills so that individuals can stand up to zergs is not the answer. Putting together your Own Zerg to combat theirs is the answer.
And just for the record, I'm a PvE type. I don't have a dog in this race either way. Just an outside perspective looking in.
IMHO
I think he was joking when he said he wants to Incap a Zerg but I do appreciate the LOTR reference 😂1 -
Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »Make incap like camo hunter if you land it on enemy flank it stuns.
It should stun regardless of position imo. It’s literally called Incapacitating Strike so it should incapacitate your enemy.1
