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Why are the majority of sets just trash?
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Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Those obsessed with min-maxing will simply never understand the value of sets they perceive to be less than optimal for situation X, Y, or Z. Thankfully, the developers of this game do. They understand that "useful" - especially from the limited perspective of min-maxers - often isn't the point for a significant number of people who play this game. For my part, I care far less about "useful" than I do about "fun." It's why I don't touch many of the so-called "useful" sets because they are boring.8 -
Aerenel✭✭✭
Not at all @Commancho , it's effective for quick nukes, can turn a 1v3 into a 1v1fast if you single out the easier targets. Heres 2 clips of it in action and I'm as mediocre as they come (elegance wasnt being used in these but it would've been even stronger if it were)
https://youtu.be/Ftnz2XMSBu8
https://youtu.be/nBIzxvTMyRk 2 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭I just see magsorc who has problem with killing a guy who has over 45k HP and some anti-pvp build.
No bragging here, but I would take them both down in less than 10 seconds.
Overload has been overnerfed and Queens Elegance buffs only 20% of unbuffed base attack.
QE even on werewolf is very weak set, while WW bases only on light attacks.
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TBois✭✭✭✭✭
✭A lot more sets are viable in PvP than in PvE since the fights are more varied.PC/NA
T-Bois (Stam Sorc since 1.4) - AD
An Unsettling Snowball (Templar) - AD
Bosquecito (Stam Sorc) - DC
Peti-T-Bois (Stamden) - AD6 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Grianasteri wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »A tiny selection of just hilarious trash set:
https://eso-sets.com/set/sergeants-mail
https://eso-sets.com/set/queens-elegance
https://eso-sets.com/set/call-of-the-undertaker
https://eso-sets.com/set/crusader
Some of the stats on those sets aren't really bad, but the 5-piece set bonus is just utter trash.
How about making more sets useful instead of pumping more and more sets into the game with each new update?
Hmmn...
Ive actually been planning to theory craft and create a heavy attack stam build, to specifically make use of sets like Sergeants Mail. There are extremely viable high dps heavy attack builds for magica, I imagine similar can be achieved with Sergeants and/or something like Undaunted unweaver.
.
Sergeants Mail actually synergizes pretty nicely with Doylemish. Adds even more burst to go along wit the Doylemish proc.0 -
daedalusAI✭✭✭✭✭Those obsessed with min-maxing will simply never understand the value of sets they perceive to be less than optimal for situation X, Y, or Z. Thankfully, the developers of this game do. They understand that "useful" - especially from the limited perspective of min-maxers - often isn't the point for a significant number of people who play this game. For my part, I care far less about "useful" than I do about "fun." It's why I don't touch many of the so-called "useful" sets because they are boring.
I didn't talk about min-maxing.
The burden of proof is on you considering your very broad statement after I've given specific sets with are utter trash.
Tell me how e.g. Crusader is useful or fun.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭With the number of sets and the wide variety of play styles Zos is attempting to support it would make sense that many sets would be undesirable to many players. Logically many sets would be considered trash and it would be piontless and a total waste of time for Zos to try to keep them all, or even a majority of them, relevant.1 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Trash for you is not the same as trash for everyone else.
Just because you can't figure out a use for them does not mean they are trash.
It just means you haven't figured out a use yet.
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BRogueNZ✭✭✭✭✭useful for decon? trash to sell? trait research?
..perhaps to put pressure on you to hurry up and max your bank etc with gold you perhaps don't have yet.
..I'm sure a lot of it is to make eso+ more attractive especially for new players levelling crafting.
Edited by BRogueNZ on November 1, 2019 10:18PM2 -
OolongSnakeTea✭✭✭✭Not all sets have to be X Y Z's meta, and there are combos that get the job done, or play into play styles better that may be interesting enough to stick around.
Don't be a sheep, get in the dad-jeep!
1. Is it easy to obtain
2. is it fun to play and easy to learn?
3. Does it clear the content you want to do?
Keep those in mind, and a lot more sets open up, even the so called Junk-Sets."I try to create sympathy for my characters, then turn the monsters loose."– Stephen King2 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »Why is it unavoidable?
Because horizontal progression and not vertical progression.
To the best of my knowledge, horizontal progression would mean that there are a multitude of viable sets from which to choose from, whereas vertical would be that old gear is immediately dropped for the most recently released hotness.
We seem to have more elements of vertical progression these days with the Cloudrest/Sunspire meta sets usurping those from older times. It's the point where basically ALL DPS builds use at least one of Rel, Lokke, or FG, which leaves precious little room for other sets to contend.
ZOS seems to have tried to de-couple the vertical progression elements of PvE that drive sales by adding in PvE only bonuses of Minor Slayer/Aegis and leaving more room for PvP builds to draw from older sets.
But given that the vast majority of players do PvE as their primary activity, they've locked in PvE players to their vertical progression scheme and de-valued most of the older sets.
The thing that's truly mind-boggling is the EXTREMELY LIMITED ITEMIZATION scheme that ZOS has adopted, where every set recycles the same ~5 bonuses (Max Stat, Crit%, Damage, etc.) for the 2-4 piece and then only gets "creative" with the 5-piece.
We've seen that the current design team seems fascination with the "stacks" approach to the 5-piece, perhaps in recognition that they'd essentially run out of permutations to use under the older 5-piece scheme (e.g. just give larger versions of the 2-4 piece or make it a proc set). But soon we will reach fatigue of these "stacks" and will they have to think of something new to permute.
Honestly, I just wish they would do a giant "creativity pass" of all these old, unused sets and add in new types of bonuses to the 2-4 piece bonuses, preferably ones tied to the use of specific types of skills or damage types rather than the bland "Gives 129 Weapon Damage" omnibus bumps of the past.
Give us MORE and HIGHER values for SPECIFIC applications and then let the player stitch those together into a whole new generation of viable builds.
TLDR;
All these old/unused sets need a "creativity pass" to give us spicier itemization and a broader array of set bonuses.3 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Same reason most skill loadouts are "trash" -- meta. Everyone's looking up an internet guide to tell them what is good, want they have to use.
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Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »Those obsessed with min-maxing will simply never understand the value of sets they perceive to be less than optimal for situation X, Y, or Z. Thankfully, the developers of this game do. They understand that "useful" - especially from the limited perspective of min-maxers - often isn't the point for a significant number of people who play this game. For my part, I care far less about "useful" than I do about "fun." It's why I don't touch many of the so-called "useful" sets because they are boring.
I didn't talk about min-maxing.
The burden of proof is on you considering your very broad statement after I've given specific sets with are utter trash.
Tell me how e.g. Crusader is useful or fun.
Burden of proof? Hahahahahah! This isn't a formal debate... it's a recreational web forum. It doesn't take much of one's own think work - if one has a fair amount of creativity and an imagination - to come up with ideas for oneself. The onus is on us as individual players to make things work (or not) for us and to use them (or not) as we see fit. Just because one of us concludes "meh, this set is boring/trash/icky" doesn't make it so for everyone, much less make it necessary for the developers to rework those sets. I mean, if I gave two $#@%s about PvP I might use a set like Crusader on my character who does a lot of dodge rolling. Except that it's a dungeon set and I almost never use those, so... basically any set locked behind group content is "trash" to me regardless of what it actually does.2 -
pma_pacifier✭✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »A tiny selection of just hilarious trash set:
https://eso-sets.com/set/sergeants-mail
https://eso-sets.com/set/queens-elegance
https://eso-sets.com/set/call-of-the-undertaker
https://eso-sets.com/set/crusader
Some of the stats on those sets aren't really bad, but the 5-piece set bonus is just utter trash.
How about making more sets useful instead of pumping more and more sets into the game with each new update?
hi sir,
are the existence of these sets giving you any problems or causing any issues for you?
:'( ???7 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Consider for a moment that healing is tied to weapon/spell damage. If It was a completely different stat than the one that also increased your damage you’d see players build for healing. But since having the highest weapon damage possible means the biggest heals only sets that gear you towards that purpose are worth using in many players eyes. Healing is just one issue of course.
Many other sets have weird conditional procs that deal pathetic amounts of damage or just require to much effort to pull off. Compare new moon acolyte to essence thief. NMA gives me my damage straight up. I don’t have to proc the set than run around trying to pick up the essence in the middle of combat. NMA is crafted and much easier to acquire than most alternatives.1 -
Kali_Despoine✭✭✭✭these "trash" sets are mere stepping stone to a better set. That is all most are
Sure put a few increase speed sets for farming or whatever but in the real down and gritty there is only a hand full of sets that are worth a damb and you know as you complain about a: not having them cause content is hard or b: you just got roasted in PvP by what seemed like everyone wearing the same set up that beats you every time.
If your happy wearing what I call 27-79 gold coins then I'm happy for you.
If you want to make hard content easy then follow the meta builds.
me I theory craft so I like to try them all out but trash is trash
if I was lvl 10 w/ no crafting abilities at all like when the game first dropped, then I would put crusader on but I'm not so I don't
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ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭daedalusAI wrote: »A tiny selection of just hilarious trash set:
https://eso-sets.com/set/sergeants-mail
https://eso-sets.com/set/queens-elegance
https://eso-sets.com/set/call-of-the-undertaker
https://eso-sets.com/set/crusader
Some of the stats on those sets aren't really bad, but the 5-piece set bonus is just utter trash.
How about making more sets useful instead of pumping more and more sets into the game with each new update?
Elegance set was actually BIS for magsorcs back in the days when ulti stacked to 1000 and overload was not a useless piece of trash skill.1 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »
Elegant is not bad on a heavy attack build depending on what you run with it...then again you’d get more damage from slotting points in Staff Expert.
It all really depends on the build and getting “what” from “where.” ANYHOW, Elegant is NOT trash per se.
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FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Crusader
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type Dungeon
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(5 items) Increases the duration of the dodge chance bonus of Roll Dodge by 0.3 seconds.
While this is never going to thrill anyone at endgame, it’s a perfectly acceptable levelling set, especially for players who might only have 3 - 4 pieces.
I’m never going to marry it, but if I’m levelling and don’t do crafting I might find this a step up from what I was wearing at the time.
I do like the rather tossy attitude that imagines that all players at all levels can choose which sets they are wearing. I really don’t see many L30s, who are wearing gear 10 levels below them, turn down anything that provides better stats. If I got Volenfell as a random dungeon in that situation, I’d probably be using it too.
It’s also important to understand that if genuine BiS gear dropped in regular dungeons, you’d have far fewer players continuing to do Craglorn trials0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭pma_pacifier wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »A tiny selection of just hilarious trash set:
https://eso-sets.com/set/sergeants-mail
https://eso-sets.com/set/queens-elegance
https://eso-sets.com/set/call-of-the-undertaker
https://eso-sets.com/set/crusader
Some of the stats on those sets aren't really bad, but the 5-piece set bonus is just utter trash.
How about making more sets useful instead of pumping more and more sets into the game with each new update?
hi sir,
are the existence of these sets giving you any problems or causing any issues for you?
:'( ???
With that Attitude the devs could add 90% litter and just a handful of effective sets, forcing you in a very neat meta. No, it doesn't pains anyone phsically that some useless sets exist. But it's still a waste of opportunities.
Everybody and their mother wears BS, TK and Balrogh as stam in PvP because the alternatives are rather useless. Wouldn't it be nice to have a bigger pool of good sets to choose from?
Note that I'm not arguing to rework sets that enable niche builds, just that some sets are beyound useless. Why slot A-W when they are all worse than X, Y or Z?1 -
mocap✭✭✭✭✭
✭sets in ESO was always and will be always adjusted to current meta. New sets with new $ DLC.Thats why new sets are always better than anything else.
New chapter will introduce new trial gear and everyone will throw their False god to dumpster.Edited by mocap on November 2, 2019 9:36AM2 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »pma_pacifier wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »A tiny selection of just hilarious trash set:
https://eso-sets.com/set/sergeants-mail
https://eso-sets.com/set/queens-elegance
https://eso-sets.com/set/call-of-the-undertaker
https://eso-sets.com/set/crusader
Some of the stats on those sets aren't really bad, but the 5-piece set bonus is just utter trash.
How about making more sets useful instead of pumping more and more sets into the game with each new update?
hi sir,
are the existence of these sets giving you any problems or causing any issues for you?
:'( ???
With that Attitude the devs could add 90% litter and just a handful of effective sets, forcing you in a very neat meta. No, it doesn't pains anyone phsically that some useless sets exist. But it's still a waste of opportunities.
Everybody and their mother wears BS, TK and Balrogh as stam in PvP because the alternatives are rather useless. Wouldn't it be nice to have a bigger pool of good sets to choose from?
Note that I'm not arguing to rework sets that enable niche builds, just that some sets are beyound useless. Why slot A-W when they are all worse than X, Y or Z?
Doesn’t that rather suggest that no one in PvP is inventive enough to have found an effective counter to that?
PvP does seem to be rammed full of players whose idea of gameplay is simply to conform to the current ideological ‘best build’.
Maybe they should simply sell Flavour of the Month builds for PvP in the Crown Store. 20,000 Crowns a time.
Not all sets are designed for endgame PvP1 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »A tiny selection of just hilarious trash set:
https://eso-sets.com/set/sergeants-mail
https://eso-sets.com/set/queens-elegance
https://eso-sets.com/set/call-of-the-undertaker
https://eso-sets.com/set/crusader
Some of the stats on those sets aren't really bad, but the 5-piece set bonus is just utter trash.
How about making more sets useful instead of pumping more and more sets into the game with each new update?
Elegance set was actually BIS for magsorcs back in the days when ulti stacked to 1000 and overload was not a useless piece of trash skill.
My 25k crit overload light attacks would like to disagree, but then again, not meta sets on that build... Except if you count crafty alfiq😉"It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard0 -
MajBludd✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's as if they could use these trash sets to make pvp or pve exclusive sets.
Then you could start separating pvp and pve, but it wont happen.0 -
Ash_In_My_Sujamma✭✭✭✭✭They are not trash. They are too many that's for sure. I think the issue you are facing is that because there is a trend for playstyle and class homogenization, everyone is using pretty much the same sets for the same reasons. I could also say that there are fewer reasons for players to sit down and theorycraft but I am not gonna say it because I am gonna be crucified for being negative or something
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pma_pacifier✭✭✭
What can be defined as good sets and useless sets?Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »With that Attitude the devs could add 90% litter and just a handful of effective sets, forcing you in a very neat meta. No, it doesn't pains anyone phsically that some useless sets exist. But it's still a waste of opportunities.
Everybody and their mother wears BS, TK and Balrogh as stam in PvP because the alternatives are rather useless. Wouldn't it be nice to have a bigger pool of good sets to choose from?
Note that I'm not arguing to rework sets that enable niche builds, just that some sets are beyound useless. Why slot A-W when they are all worse than X, Y or Z?
1. Changing past old "useless" sets to be "good" or as "good as others" in achieving a particular purpose already achieved by current sets:
Hey zos whats the point of using this set when we already have other sets that can do the same thing!! - only to be easily dismissed again as a "useless" set because there's no point changing to another set if benefits aren't substantial. Zos will yet again be called out as uncreative and lazy because if they were to create a set with a creative and fun side, it's either gonna be "useless" to you or "overpowered" at worse.
2. Changing past old "useless" sets to be "very unique and stronger than some sets":
Hey zos, this is so OP!!!!, Whats the point of doing this??? My other sets are useless now! they are utter trash and not in meta anymore, can you update my other trash set please to balance it!!? why did you change them at the first place? oh wait I wrote this thread.
3. Adding new "useful" , "good" sets:
hey zos, everyone's running around with these new sets, (because BiS), the other sets are useless now!? why can't you update the old sets!!!
.... Repeat 1-3
So tell me whats the point? There will always be a spectrum of "useless" sets to "good" sets, and I guess with your strong context and requirement in PVP. But I don't see any problem unless there are huge gaps in the meta to maximize a certain role and that these useless sets will always be there for the memeing or some random fun use in pve/pvp.- There are already the existence of good sets with the inherent bonuses required to be competent and be considered good. These "good" sets tend to have similar strengths and bonuses, with some variances in their set bonuses. However meta will always be the same until they implement substantive changes with new sets introduced like the new moon set introducing a newer or perhaps better meta. People start using the new sets, old sets get outclassed, people will protest how old sets are now useless. However, if a newer set that was introduced were to be not any different than the current meta, guess what? It becomes a useless set easily by your definition. Same thing happens.
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ForzaRammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zos’ laziness obv. A lot older sets can be easily buffed to be viable. For example, elegance, just change It to 40% it would be perfectly viable0 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭you dont like those sets so they should be removed and destroyed?
totaly selfish andf destroys other peoples fun and thier builds.
one mans trash is another mans treasure.
allow the sets to stay and make new ones.1