BlueRaven wrote: »

Zos wanted to nerf high end endgame players, and they did not mind it if everyone else’s dps went through the floor. But end game was their “target” audience. They said this on eso live.

It also does not help that the combat lead hates doing pve content.

You hit the nail on the head. The leadership of the combat team is/were pvpers. Naturally, they will be focusing on this aspect of the game most. Seems to me this is their main focus. They nerf dots because pvpers complained (rightfully so). They now nerf sustain to try and limit “unkillable” builds in pvp. Imo all these changes are pvp focused.

kojou wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

YouTubers and Twitch streamers. Those are the only opinions ZOS cares about.

All it took was a few big shots ranting like "AlL TeH DoTs Is MaKiN MaH RoTaTiOnS BoOoOoORiNg!!!!" and DoTs got nerfed.

More like I can't 1vX and make cool videos with all these players putting DoTs on me, but I agree with the sentiment that it was primary Youtubers and their bandwagons repeating it in the forums.

Rotations were more interesting than they are now. Now we put 2 important DoTs then do a spammable until it is time to refresh the 2 important DoTs. I never quite understood what was wrong with the balance on Update 22 though...

Yeah, I should have mentioned those guys, too, especially PvP Stam build streamers. However, contrary to forum wisdom, I don't think ZOS only nerfs with PvP in mind. I actually think that they care more about PvE, but PvE players often don't want to hear that, so PvP issues get blamed.

A while back I watched a sneak peek video made by Will Wright ( I believe he created the Sims game ).

I found it interesting. He talked about how games are built around player emotions and they make changes based on agency. Some of the changes are crazy. Will used examples like: the changes made are like taking a pacifier from a baby and see how they panic; or watching a really good movie at a theater and the screen goes black then watching how people react. Will also talked about how most games are based on failure. Creating situations where the user fails but then have them come back and think, "ooo this is how you do it".

So I am assuming the changes that are made are not because we requested them. I think they are based on some kind of vision the developers have. I also think the changes are made to trigger us ( emotionally ) to make us re-think how we play the game.

I personally think the people that play on the testing server are there to test overall changes making sure zeni didn't break the game. Input is good but I don't think just because you don't like something, zeni is going to go back and change it.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

YouTubers and Twitch streamers. Those are the only opinions ZOS cares about.

All it took was a few big shots ranting like "AlL TeH DoTs Is MaKiN MaH RoTaTiOnS BoOoOoORiNg!!!!" and DoTs got nerfed.

It absolutely was not just content creators complaining. I'm in 3 large PVP guilds and DoTs were the #1 complaint in chat every single day. It was also a common complaint in BG group chat.. almost every single match. There were also multiple daily forum and reddit threads on the topic. DoTs were oppressive in PVP and made PVE build diversity non-existant. Why shouldn't players complain if the game becomes more boring? It WAS more boring, no question. Did they overshoot the nerf? I dunno maybe but it's better than the DoT insanity we had last patch.

The entire last patch, I saw exactly ZERO people expressing happiness about the DoT META. Content creator or no.

I don't watch many Youtubers. However, I will say youtubers/streamers and Forum posters do have unrealized power in their words.

There are times I came here and read something or watched a youtuber comment on something and then a few days later someone mentions the same thing in a new player zone.

Kind of reminds me how people fear Kayne Wests Sunday services. They fear he is teaching the wrong thing but he has power in number of followers he has.

I like the nerfs and changes. They shake up things a bit and prevent people from milking the same builds over and over again. The time after some changes is when people get most creative. It is when they rely the most on their own thinking and learning abilities as opposed to copying a build, and then getting used to playing it through sheer repetition.

I do not think it interferes with the enjoyment of overland content for people who like it because it is famously very easy, so you have to stand idle for a while to die.

Haquor wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

The combat changes were loaded in PTS over a month ago. Now, it’s been a full week on Live ... and PC players are just now posting their views.

Pretty late to the party if you ask me ...

Yeah... cause nobody was posting feedback during the pts cycle were they?!

I've stop to wast time on PTS and feedback forum section.
They don't care anyway.

A couple of things:

First, ideas like "its just pvpers whining" are beyond simplistic to the point of being worthless

1. Their main combat focus has been on the homiginaztion of classes. Every class, every role. Yet this means taking away a unique feel. Its a tension within the community itself. Why cant my frost magden do massive dps or my magsorc a tank? Yet then we loose unique features such as third bar or reflect on wings. This patch saw a reaction of the pendelum towards trying to find uniqueness instead of abilities in a spreadsheet and ability type A does X dmg. The idea that the "community" is together on this point: homiginization vs. Uniqueness is wrong. We are not in agreement ourselves

2. Changes made on parse data. The lens is also on use of data from parses. Meaning the framework is pve in mind. Yet this takes away from the aspect of actual gameplay outside of a trial boss. Again though, we have people that want six classes, both mag and sorc to hit the same dps numbers (homoginized) while another group that says everyone should have a unique ability, buff or support to bring to the the unique.

3. Performance: There is an arguement that they wanted to reduce aoe dots to reduce the load of calculations for performance.

4. PVP: yes, its a different beast and even pvp (cp vs. no cp, duel vs. Solo. vs small group vs. group) with everyone wanting changes to fit their game play. Headache. Also, being competitive between people means that people want balance whereas pve sees no issues pulling 100k dps and ignoring healers (stupidly out of balance) while someone in pvp is upset that they get two unsynced snipes and die. (Watch the pvers flood to forums when they experience it during events though)

5. Dps was stupid strong. It reduced the need for healers in a majority of combat. We went from 40k dps being strong to seeing people hit 90k to 100k.

6. Incompetence. Straight up. Through the baby out with the bath water, nerf into oblivion, buff stupidly. They should have been making small changes over the years. Massive changes at 5 years in? Really?

7. Releasing sets from the start that are just stupid strong. Every patch cycle we can see sets and see its out of place. Why...... So then everyone jumps to it and it gets buffed down again. Rinse repeat. I will say this patch looked better in terms of having unique sets

wishlist14 wrote: »

Im definately not happy but i was happy before all of these changes, at least i was having fun...go back to when stamina had caltrops just before the changes started
and please rewind to then. Now I hate, hate ,hate how combat feels.

So reading the forums i just can't for the life of me see any positive comments on these changes not from pvp or pve or even casual players or new players so who is zos doing all this for? It cant be for themselves if this is the reaction they get.

I love the southern elsweyr questlines and the lore and the cute and funny characters and everything else about it. Thank you zos for not disappointing there. I bow down to the dev teams that made southern elsweyr such a beautiful and fun place but the combat team....you broke my character's ability to enjoy her journey. It's like she is venturing forth with a broken leg and arm ...or broken paw 🙀😿

Who or what is all this heartache for?

If you're referring to the nerfs, then those changes are meant to address all the tryhards who can't stop bragging about how they do 100K dps and skip mechanics in vet hm dlc dungeons and trials and then turn around a whine about how the open world content is too easy in their top end raiding gear.

perolord wrote: »

nerfs are in every mmorpg that i played... but im not on the ESO side, but you guys, every single nerf they made, there will be people who are not happy with it...

so addopt and play or leave the game..

I have played several MMOs, while nerfs or buffs are a part of life in them, I have NEVER seen a team do this kind of wild swings back and forth every three months. Not in SWTOR, or LOTRO, or TSW, or WoW, or GW2 at least.

Three months ago it was that single target DoTs weren't doing enough damage. This patch it was they were doing too much damage so they nerf them back to be worse than they were before they decided they weren't doing enough. That alone shows a team that hasn't got a goal in mind and, furthermore, hasn't got a clue what they are doing.

As far as adapting, MMO players are used to it and fine with it - within reason. But it is NOT reasonable to completely wipe a build every three months. Players barely have enough time to farm the gear, adjust their builds, and master the new rotations to the latest 'swing for the fences' meta - across several characters - before ZoS blows it all to smithereens the next patch. People are just fatigued on adapting EVERY THREE MONTHS. So you reach a point where people are just taking the attitude "What's the Use", knowing ZoS is going to invalidate all that effort the very next patch.

So, you have more people leaving the game than ever before (if Steam Stats are correct), and the problem then becomes the SWTOR syndrome - the more people that leave the game, the less revenue, the smaller the dev team gets and then, eventually, the content will become a trickle so more and more players leave.

I never understood the mentality of telling people to leave. We all benefit the more people are playing the game and we all suffer the less people are playing the game.

I would stop bitching about the update if the cost increase would be reduced a bit.

RE - Every 3 Months

I just wanted to point out that while it can be annoying to get a new set nerfed into the ground, it’s not like this is an unexpected development as ZOS has repeated this behavior for 5 solid years. It is inevitable that some new sets will be broken when they are launched and those sets would and should get nerfed in the first patch possible. I see nothing wrong with ZOS correcting errors in that first 3 month or so patch when things are obviously over performing.

If you want to get angry about a nerf from a later patch after ZOS has ignored something for 6 months to a year or longer, then hell yeah, I’d be angry too. Like if Vicious Death suddenly got a nerf 3 or 4 years after it was released, but that isn’t what is happening.

You are not required to follow the meta, and if you do you have more than enough evidence to say that you’re only gonna be riding high for 3 months. Knowing these things it’s a bit silly to blame ZOS for nerfing new things every 3 months because often times they have to.