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Data on Dungeon Drop Rates
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AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Does anyone have current data or know an addon that tracks the drops in dungeons or trials?
I have been doing a lot of farming before the big nerf to sustain happens and I started to notice certain sets dropped significantly more than others in the same dungeon.I have a theory that the drops are weighted more heavily towards the sets that get the least use overall in the community but I'm aware I might be dealing with confirmation bias, so I was looking for hard data or a way to go about tracking it myself without doing it by hand.
I think there is another way to approach this.
If you study how the game is designed, and how its designed to funnel the player to the crown store (by keeping gold out of the players hands), then it would make sense that ZO$ would want sets that are undesirable to drop more than the desirable sets.
I cant think of a single set in game that is desirable that is cheap. Even crafted go for a good amount.
Considering we cannot buy sets in the crowns store (and many players who are active in the game have plenty of gold) this post makes pretty much no sense in the context of this threads OP.
It makes perfect sense if you understand how the chain of events works.
ZO$ fundamentally wants to keep gold out of the average players hands. This is evident through all the gold sinks in game from horse riding to repairs to material costs for consumables which are necessary.
One way to keep gold out of the players hands is to ensure the "good" armor sets have low drop rates. This means that when a player goes to purchase one of these armor sets, they have to spend a fair amount of gold. In essence ensuring desirable armor has a low drop rate keeps them from flooding the market, which ensures a higher cost. Its a gold sink.
Between the armor gold sinks, and all the other nickel and dime gold sinks in game this keeps the average player from amassing tons of gold.
Gold is used to purchase houses, riding, furniture, motifs among others, but with the exception of riding those are all expensive...but the riding is not actually about the gold, its about only being able to purchase the skills one a day, making the trek to get your mount up to speed tiresome and boring (6 months straight with ZERO days not playing). That is how they drive the player to the crown store. Because riding slow sucks. Riding slow means not making it to the north dragon in time.
The more gold ZO$ keeps out of the players hands, the more players will RESORT to making purchases in the crown store.
Its really easy to follow and makes perfect sense in regards to the OP, if you understand cause and effect.
If only players could go and get those things themselves. Imagine the chaos!The Moot Councillor1 -
buttaface✭✭✭✭✭Since I do not find the game designed to funnel me to the cash shop I can only expect the person you quoted is not easily swayed like a herd of cattle either. Maybe for some there is something in the actual game play related to farming weapons that drive them to the cash shop but it must influence the weak minded.
No, everyone playing the game is -already- in the cash shop, with the game full of racks of cash shop items on display everywhere on players, their costumes, mounts, emotes, gear, assistants, etc. during time and convenience sinks (such as traveling from guild trader to guild trader in a *** broken, company serving trading system).
There is no need to "funnel" anyone anywhere. When you log into the game, you are IN the cash shop (explaining log in rewards), and the longer you play, the more likely you are to buy something. Same for any store anywhere. Same for websites and ecommerce, same for television. A primary aim is to keep you in the store or on the page, or watching, and that certain loot tables in ESO are obviously weighted towards keeping you in the store longer is obvious to anyone paying attention.
This is not a controversial or conspiratorial idea, certainly not some "herd of cattle" BS or whatever you "think" up next.
I for one do not buy into any "broken loot seed" speculations, and think they outright weight the drop tables. That is the simplest explanation, and obviates any description of certain loot tables in ESO as "random."1 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I for one do not buy into any "broken loot seed" speculations, and think they outright weight the drop tables. That is the simplest explanation, and obviates any description of certain loot tables in ESO as "random."
^ and if they did base loot off seeds (as pro-eso fans have suggested) and those are inherently unfair meaning some folks will get lots of A drops and others will get lots of B drops, then its a broken system by design.
I'd personally use cosmic background radiation as my random number generator.
Edited by Raideen on October 18, 2019 2:39AM1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Does anyone have current data or know an addon that tracks the drops in dungeons or trials?
I have been doing a lot of farming before the big nerf to sustain happens and I started to notice certain sets dropped significantly more than others in the same dungeon.I have a theory that the drops are weighted more heavily towards the sets that get the least use overall in the community but I'm aware I might be dealing with confirmation bias, so I was looking for hard data or a way to go about tracking it myself without doing it by hand.
I think there is another way to approach this.
If you study how the game is designed, and how its designed to funnel the player to the crown store (by keeping gold out of the players hands), then it would make sense that ZO$ would want sets that are undesirable to drop more than the desirable sets.
I cant think of a single set in game that is desirable that is cheap. Even crafted go for a good amount.
Considering we cannot buy sets in the crowns store (and many players who are active in the game have plenty of gold) this post makes pretty much no sense in the context of this threads OP.
It makes perfect sense if you understand how the chain of events works.
ZO$ fundamentally wants to keep gold out of the average players hands. This is evident through all the gold sinks in game from horse riding to repairs to material costs for consumables which are necessary.
I will stop you right there as fundamentally this is false. The gold sinks are a drop in the bucket. Those with little gold either do not play much or waste it. Much like real life.
As a raider, using the good pots like crazy, food and golding out my gear I gain far more gold than I spend.Does anyone have current data or know an addon that tracks the drops in dungeons or trials?
I have been doing a lot of farming before the big nerf to sustain happens and I started to notice certain sets dropped significantly more than others in the same dungeon.I have a theory that the drops are weighted more heavily towards the sets that get the least use overall in the community but I'm aware I might be dealing with confirmation bias, so I was looking for hard data or a way to go about tracking it myself without doing it by hand.
I think there is another way to approach this.
If you study how the game is designed, and how its designed to funnel the player to the crown store (by keeping gold out of the players hands), then it would make sense that ZO$ would want sets that are undesirable to drop more than the desirable sets.
I cant think of a single set in game that is desirable that is cheap. Even crafted go for a good amount.
Considering we cannot buy sets in the crowns store (and many players who are active in the game have plenty of gold) this post makes pretty much no sense in the context of this threads OP.
One way to keep gold out of the players hands is to ensure the "good" armor sets have low drop rates. This means that when a player goes to purchase one of these armor sets, they have to spend a fair amount of gold. In essence ensuring desirable armor has a low drop rate keeps them from flooding the market, which ensures a higher cost. Its a gold sink.
This also does not make sense as well. The only part that is a gold sink is the % taken by the guild trader system but most of that gold just changes hands.
While yes, just like real life some people waste their gold buying shiny objects or the gear of the month. I guess they like complain and blame the case shop on their lack of gold when it is really just their choice on how they spent it.
In the end our comment comes off as nothing more than a conspiracy theory because some players are better at managing their money than others.2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
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It is not fundamentally false, not even in the slightest. Just because you have been handed this game to you on a silver platter does not mean that is the case for the other 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999% of the people who play.I will stop you right there as fundamentally this is false. The gold sinks are a drop in the bucket. Those with little gold either do not play much or waste it. Much like real life.
As a raider, using the good pots like crazy, food and golding out my gear I gain far more gold than I spend.
Everything in game is designed to take gold from you and that gold eventually makes it to the guild trader sink, or a house.This also does not make sense as well. The only part that is a gold sink is the % taken by the guild trader system but most of that gold just changes hands.
What exactly are you suggesting here? You have no clue what you are talking about. You do not know why someone does or does not have gold. The only people in this game who make gold hand over fist are people who play to make gold.While yes, just like real life some people waste their gold buying shiny objects or the gear of the month. I guess they like complain and blame the case shop on their lack of gold when it is really just their choice on how they spent it.
I know for a 100% FACT that when you first started playing and you did not have everything maxed out, you had a hard time making gold. I remember you commenting on it. LOLIn the end our comment comes off as nothing more than a conspiracy theory because some players are better at managing their money than others.
It has nothing to do with money management. Simply playing the game TO MAKE GOLD requires you TO SPEND GOLD.
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It is not fundamentally false, not even in the slightest. Just because you have been handed this game to you on a silver platter does not mean that is the case for the other 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999% of the people who play.I will stop you right there as fundamentally this is false. The gold sinks are a drop in the bucket. Those with little gold either do not play much or waste it. Much like real life.
As a raider, using the good pots like crazy, food and golding out my gear I gain far more gold than I spend.
Didn't realize ESO had an undecillion players. But, it's nice to know that you, alone, have cracked the code... whatever that is.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Edit: Nvm, this tangent is ridiculous and has nothing to do with the topic as I pointed out. That is a solid fact.Edited by idk on October 18, 2019 2:18PM1 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Does anyone have current data or know an addon that tracks the drops in dungeons or trials?
I have been doing a lot of farming before the big nerf to sustain happens and I started to notice certain sets dropped significantly more than others in the same dungeon.I have a theory that the drops are weighted more heavily towards the sets that get the least use overall in the community but I'm aware I might be dealing with confirmation bias, so I was looking for hard data or a way to go about tracking it myself without doing it by hand.
The only way I can think of is to gather data by hand, unless the creators of addons that track group loot somehow have access to the drop data and are willing to hand it over (doubtful, though I have no idea how addons work). I feel like the best you can do is pick a popular dungeon with a good set (City of Ash 1 comes to mind), then enable a loot tracker, pug the crap out of the dungeon when it’s a pledge, and track yourself the gear people get and their role. See if you can get others to track too… I’d be happy to help with this if you decide to do it. I have theories as well.
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haelene✭✭✭✭✭
✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »Does anyone have current data or know an addon that tracks the drops in dungeons or trials?
I have been doing a lot of farming before the big nerf to sustain happens and I started to notice certain sets dropped significantly more than others in the same dungeon.I have a theory that the drops are weighted more heavily towards the sets that get the least use overall in the community but I'm aware I might be dealing with confirmation bias, so I was looking for hard data or a way to go about tracking it myself without doing it by hand.
The only way I can think of is to gather data by hand, unless the creators of addons that track group loot somehow have access to the drop data and are willing to hand it over (doubtful, though I have no idea how addons work). I feel like the best you can do is pick a popular dungeon with a good set (City of Ash 1 comes to mind), then enable a loot tracker, pug the crap out of the dungeon when it’s a pledge, and track yourself the gear people get and their role. See if you can get others to track too… I’d be happy to help with this if you decide to do it. I have theories as well.
Loot tracker. That's what I was looking for, thanks! Yeah, I am planning on doing it. I mean, it's not going to help me get better drops, but at least I'll be armed with info on how to do this efficiently.0 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »Does anyone have current data or know an addon that tracks the drops in dungeons or trials?
I have been doing a lot of farming before the big nerf to sustain happens and I started to notice certain sets dropped significantly more than others in the same dungeon.I have a theory that the drops are weighted more heavily towards the sets that get the least use overall in the community but I'm aware I might be dealing with confirmation bias, so I was looking for hard data or a way to go about tracking it myself without doing it by hand.
The only way I can think of is to gather data by hand, unless the creators of addons that track group loot somehow have access to the drop data and are willing to hand it over (doubtful, though I have no idea how addons work). I feel like the best you can do is pick a popular dungeon with a good set (City of Ash 1 comes to mind), then enable a loot tracker, pug the crap out of the dungeon when it’s a pledge, and track yourself the gear people get and their role. See if you can get others to track too… I’d be happy to help with this if you decide to do it. I have theories as well.
Loot tracker. That's what I was looking for, thanks! Yeah, I am planning on doing it. I mean, it's not going to help me get better drops, but at least I'll be armed with info on how to do this efficiently.
Awesome
I think that LUI extended has one? That, or Bandits UI. I wish I could remember which- one of those two has an automatic one build in that you can turn on and off. 0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »SidraWillowsky wrote: »Does anyone have current data or know an addon that tracks the drops in dungeons or trials?
I have been doing a lot of farming before the big nerf to sustain happens and I started to notice certain sets dropped significantly more than others in the same dungeon.I have a theory that the drops are weighted more heavily towards the sets that get the least use overall in the community but I'm aware I might be dealing with confirmation bias, so I was looking for hard data or a way to go about tracking it myself without doing it by hand.
The only way I can think of is to gather data by hand, unless the creators of addons that track group loot somehow have access to the drop data and are willing to hand it over (doubtful, though I have no idea how addons work). I feel like the best you can do is pick a popular dungeon with a good set (City of Ash 1 comes to mind), then enable a loot tracker, pug the crap out of the dungeon when it’s a pledge, and track yourself the gear people get and their role. See if you can get others to track too… I’d be happy to help with this if you decide to do it. I have theories as well.
Loot tracker. That's what I was looking for, thanks! Yeah, I am planning on doing it. I mean, it's not going to help me get better drops, but at least I'll be armed with info on how to do this efficiently.
Awesome I think that LUI extended has one? That, or Bandits UI. I wish I could remember which- one of those two has an automatic one build in that you can turn on and off.
LUI has one. Bandit's might. I have LUI and AUI running as some kind of Frankenstein's Monster of "what were you thinking," so I'm loathe to pull down any more full overhauls.0 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
The key is "understanding how the chain of events works", which clearly you do not.0 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Thanks! I have cracked many codes for this game and ima keep on crackin'!starkerealm wrote: »
It is not fundamentally false, not even in the slightest. Just because you have been handed this game to you on a silver platter does not mean that is the case for the other 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999% of the people who play.I will stop you right there as fundamentally this is false. The gold sinks are a drop in the bucket. Those with little gold either do not play much or waste it. Much like real life.
As a raider, using the good pots like crazy, food and golding out my gear I gain far more gold than I spend.
Didn't realize ESO had an undecillion players. But, it's nice to know that you, alone, have cracked the code... whatever that is.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Thanks! I have cracked many codes for this game and ima keep on crackin'!starkerealm wrote: »
It is not fundamentally false, not even in the slightest. Just because you have been handed this game to you on a silver platter does not mean that is the case for the other 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999% of the people who play.I will stop you right there as fundamentally this is false. The gold sinks are a drop in the bucket. Those with little gold either do not play much or waste it. Much like real life.
As a raider, using the good pots like crazy, food and golding out my gear I gain far more gold than I spend.
Didn't realize ESO had an undecillion players. But, it's nice to know that you, alone, have cracked the code... whatever that is.
@Raideen, buddy, that's a roll of paper towels, not a "code."1 -
vgabor✭✭✭✭✭
✭ehem... drop rates... so far I have a perfect drop score on my necro in vMA: so far completed 3 times and got 3 bow, then the leaderboard today sent a 4th one
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RebornV3x✭✭✭✭✭
✭from my experience ZOS knows full well what gear is "popular" and adjusts accordingly to keep people grinding... got a full gear set head to toe of Sunderflame and embershield including the swords and shields in the best traits by the way before i got a full set of Burning spellweave I think I did 30+ or so runs no joke before anyone in my group got a leg piece I never saw a inferno staff of BSW either.
same for VMA seems mag specs get all sorts of 2 handers and 1 handed weapons while stam specs get stavesXbox One - NA GT: RebornV3x
I also play on PC from time to time but I just wanna be left alone on there so sorry.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭from my experience ZOS knows full well what gear is "popular" and adjusts accordingly to keep people grinding... got a full gear set head to toe of Sunderflame and embershield including the swords and shields in the best traits by the way before i got a full set of Burning spellweave I think I did 30+ or so runs no joke before anyone in my group got a leg piece I never saw a inferno staff of BSW either.
same for VMA seems mag specs get all sorts of 2 handers and 1 handed weapons while stam specs get staves
At least you didn't have this happen to you:
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Voltranox✭✭✭Interesting observations in this thread.
I have been farming one of the easy dungeons on normal. Fairly short run. On my tank, so quick to get a group too.
Must have run it 50 times now at least, after a certain weapon (any trait), and no luck. Zero drops.
In addition I have been posting a request in group chat to trade if they get one (not a popular set).
Most people actually check at the end and respond, but no luck with them either.
Not enjoyable. Been stubbornly repeating it, but now I'm starting to get annoyed.0 -
Voltranox✭✭✭In addition, some things have become apparent over time as I keep repeating the dungeon.
I have gotten about 30 two-handed weapons of the set. Almost all are swords, and half are named ones.
Much fewer bows and shields (about 5 each). Lots of staffs of various types (useless because it's a stam set).
Of all those runs I did (including people checking their stash for me), NO one-handed weapons of any type.
No maces, no hammers, no swords, no axes, no daggers. Not even one. Gah! Phht.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Don't look at the crown store here. You can not buy dungeon and trial gear.Does anyone have current data or know an addon that tracks the drops in dungeons or trials?
I have been doing a lot of farming before the big nerf to sustain happens and I started to notice certain sets dropped significantly more than others in the same dungeon.I have a theory that the drops are weighted more heavily towards the sets that get the least use overall in the community but I'm aware I might be dealing with confirmation bias, so I was looking for hard data or a way to go about tracking it myself without doing it by hand.
I think there is another way to approach this.
If you study how the game is designed, and how its designed to funnel the player to the crown store (by keeping gold out of the players hands), then it would make sense that ZO$ would want sets that are undesirable to drop more than the desirable sets.
I cant think of a single set in game that is desirable that is cheap. Even crafted go for a good amount.
You can buy eso+ for dlc who contain gear but that is another story. Summerset had crappy trial sets until feedback said they was trash.
The only thing you can spend serious crowns for who can be bought in the crown store is furniture.
Most gold players spend is buying things like motifs and blueprints who price is set by supply or demand among players.
In short no connection here.
However having hard to get gear is an way to get players to play more and longer, this is the obvious reason.
But if you make drop chance too low, most will simply not bother.
This was the reason from the transmute system.
One personal experience.
I'm pretty sure that Spell power cure restoration staff and jewelry has an low drop rate as I farmed that set extensively in normal and newer got any jewelry while farming outside the named necklace, i was mostly after the healing staff.
Got loads of spell power cure bows however.
Ended up burning some millions on key fragments.
Later it looks like it drop rate is normalized.
Now especially in trials its another factor. Most want to hang on to bis gear but gives away weak or niche sets freely making them easy to farm in an trial.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Interesting observations in this thread.
I have been farming one of the easy dungeons on normal. Fairly short run. On my tank, so quick to get a group too.
Must have run it 50 times now at least, after a certain weapon (any trait), and no luck. Zero drops.
In addition I have been posting a request in group chat to trade if they get one (not a popular set).
Most people actually check at the end and respond, but no luck with them either.
Not enjoyable. Been stubbornly repeating it, but now I'm starting to get annoyed.
Which set are you chasing?0
