Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6

PvP vs PvE blame game.

JonnytheKing
JonnytheKing
✭✭✭✭✭
Why do poeple have to blame pvp for pve nerfs, its not just a pve game , so of couse they have to nerf things in pve for pvp reasons, and nerf pvp things because pve reasons ,
its hard enough to balace one side with out trying to do both at the same time,
its a mmo things change , if u dont want change go play a singal player game.
[snip]

[Edit for bait.]
Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on October 24, 2019 6:50PM
TWITCH jtk__gaming
GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
Main Toons
MagSorc
MagTemp
  • MajBludd
    MajBludd
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    It's easier to place the blame on something or someone else.
  • SoLooney
    SoLooney
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I hate people who [snip] about others [snip] about blaming pvp for pve nerfs

    Just play the game

    [Edit for censor bypass.]
    Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on October 24, 2019 6:51PM
  • Zacuel
    Zacuel
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    But I play both.

    Who am I supposed to blame?!
  • JonnytheKing
    JonnytheKing
    ✭✭✭✭✭

    Zacuel wrote: »
    But I play both.

    Who am I supposed to blame?!

    why not blame both lol
    TWITCH jtk__gaming
    GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
    Main Toons
    MagSorc
    MagTemp
  • Zacuel
    Zacuel
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Zacuel wrote: »
    But I play both.

    Who am I supposed to blame?!

    why not blame both lol

    I don't know what to believe anymore...
  • Everstorm
    Everstorm
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Is there even a single MMO where balancing PvE and PvP using the exact same skills/rules was anything less than a disaster?
    Blame the Devs for persisting with that nonsense.
  • JonnytheKing
    JonnytheKing
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Everstorm wrote: »
    Is there even a single MMO where balancing PvE and PvP using the exact same skills/rules was anything less than a disaster?
    Blame the Devs for persisting with that nonsense.

    or maybe just adjust to the changers ,

    TWITCH jtk__gaming
    GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
    Main Toons
    MagSorc
    MagTemp
  • D0PAMINE
    D0PAMINE
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Just blame me
  • JonnytheKing
    JonnytheKing
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    D0PAMINE wrote: »
    Just blame me

    yer lets do this lol

    u need to have a hard look at your self for the mistakes that u made happen in the game
    TWITCH jtk__gaming
    GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
    Main Toons
    MagSorc
    MagTemp
  • Grianasteri
    Grianasteri
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    If the outcome of "balancing" the game for both pvp and pve, is that each of these keeps receiving wholesale change - buffs/nerfs etc, this is not good practice and people are perfectly entitled to criticise this approach and seek better solutions.

    Pvp is so different from pve, it is always going to be very difficult to balance things in a way that satisfies the majority. But I think its the case around 70 or 80% of the players base play pve, which is clearly significantly more than those who main pvp. So the argument follows, why are so many changes apparently motivated by balancing pvp? The focus seems disproportionate and this is where complaints arise.
  • Huyen
    Huyen
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    [Quoted post has been removed.]

    PvP and PvE should be seperate from each other. Each skill and morph should have 2 different tooltips: one for Pve and one for Pvp. Then the problem is solved, and can true balancing begin.

    Seeing that both PvE and PvP are already seperate instances in such way, it should be easy enough to determine a seperate tooltip, for when you are attacking players.
    Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on October 24, 2019 6:52PM
    Huyen Shadowpaw, dedicated nightblade tank - PS4 (Retired)
    Huyen Swiftpaw, nightblade dps - PC EU (Retired)
    Huyen Lightpaw, templar healer - PC EU (Retired)
    Huyen Swiftpaw, necromancer dps - PC EU (Retired)
    Huyen Swiftpaw, dragonknight (no defined role yet)

    "Failure is only the opportunity to begin again. Only this time, more wisely" - Uncle Iroh
  • Foxhearted
    Foxhearted
    ✭✭✭
    That's why pve and pvp should be balanced separately
  • Nemesis7884
    Nemesis7884
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Everstorm wrote: »
    Is there even a single MMO where balancing PvE and PvP using the exact same skills/rules was anything less than a disaster?
    Blame the Devs for persisting with that nonsense.

    they dont even have to make up different skills...but simply make certain effects not taking place in pvp or hit for less when hitting a player
  • JonnytheKing
    JonnytheKing
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    If the outcome of "balancing" the game for both pvp and pve, is that each of these keeps receiving wholesale change - buffs/nerfs etc, this is not good practice and people are perfectly entitled to criticise this approach and seek better solutions.

    Pvp is so different from pve, it is always going to be very difficult to balance things in a way that satisfies the majority. But I think its the case around 70 or 80% of the players base play pve, which is clearly significantly more than those who main pvp. So the argument follows, why are so many changes apparently motivated by balancing pvp? The focus seems disproportionate and this is where complaints arise.

    Lol most pve players dont stay around , most my pve friends that just pve leave after they get bored with pve , witch hapeens pretty quick once u reach end game , or they move to pvp

    pvp is the real end game for most poeple that dont quit

    pve is easy to balance compared to pvp
    TWITCH jtk__gaming
    GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
    Main Toons
    MagSorc
    MagTemp
  • Kalik_Gold
    Kalik_Gold
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Most people PvE to get PvP gear at some point....

    Tied hand in hand.
    Main Character:
    Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige

    PvP Pure-class:
    Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
    Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
    Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
    Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
    Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer

    PvP: Subclassed or Specialty
    Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer (Tank)
    Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer (Healer)
    Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
    Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist /Sorcerer
    Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden (Ice-Theme)

    PvE:
    Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
    Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Redguard** Dragonknight (Raid Damage) --- Name change needed

    PvE: Specialty
    Tyrus Septim an Imperial Sorcerer (Dungeon Damage)
    Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (Arenas)
    Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)

    Leveling...
    Styx of Akatosh a Goblin*** Arcanist --- Race change needed
    Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Lycan Sorcerer
    Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
    ======
    Passives of another race used:
    *Breton
    **Imperial
    ***Argonian




    __________________________Backstories:_________________________

    Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.

    Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.

    Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...

    Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.

    Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.

    The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.

    The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.

    Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.

    Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)

    And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.

    After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.

    After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...

    Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.

    Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.

    {time moves forward through the hour-glass}
    PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant
  • Everstorm
    Everstorm
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    pvp is the real end game for most poeple that dont quit

    The Elder Scrolls has always been a RPG franchise with a heavy focus on questing. Making PvP the focus of the online version is/would be a stupid move.

  • valeriiya
    valeriiya
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Until they balance the two separately there will always be the back and forth blaming
  • JonnytheKing
    JonnytheKing
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Everstorm wrote: »
    pvp is the real end game for most poeple that dont quit

    The Elder Scrolls has always been a RPG franchise with a heavy focus on questing. Making PvP the focus of the online version is/would be a stupid move.

    im saying that it needs be a focus not the only one
    TWITCH jtk__gaming
    GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
    Main Toons
    MagSorc
    MagTemp
  • Grianasteri
    Grianasteri
    ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lol most pve players dont stay around , most my pve friends that just pve leave after they get bored with pve , witch hapeens pretty quick once u reach end game , or they move to pvp

    pvp is the real end game for most poeple that dont quit

    pve is easy to balance compared to pvp

    This is merely your opinion. And your first two points are highly questionable.

    Statistically the majority of the ESO player base, including the long term players, those engaging in end game and including those who frequent these forums, are pve focused. Many play both, but the majority main pve, this is a simple fact.

    The end game for some people may be pvp, but the end game for the majority, not just the top 1 - 10% of the player base, is doing vet dungeons and trials, score runs, no death, arenas etc, not pvp exclusively.

    Pve is easier to balance than pvp, but trying to balance both, or more to the point - focusing on pvp, is where the issue lays and unintended consequences and complaints arise.

    Some folks across these forums have an awful habit of believing or assuming what they want or do, is what everyone else wants or does, or should want or do.
  • NeillMcAttack
    NeillMcAttack
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I find these threads fairly amusing. ZOS must really scratch their heads when reading them, because as I see it, both PvE, and PvP, are the most balanced they have ever been.

    Mag sorcs are no longer the go to class for PvE and PvP. For the longest time they dominated both modes as the super tanky, super bursty, and most mobile class in the game, all from range.

    DK’s are no longer the go to Tanking class, nightblade, Warden and Necro are super strong if not better.

    Templar shards is the only thing bringing them above other classes in terms of healing. Before Orbs, they were the one and only real support class.

    People forget where the game came from.

    Now there are some outliers still. Off the top of my head I think stamblade needs some love in PvP. And healing in PvP, while still having tons of damage is a major issue. It makes running medium armor seem dumb. Why am I building for damage on a stam build when I can just as easily build for damage and healing/support with little downside on a mag build.
    PC EU - NoCP PvP, is real PvP
    Tiidehunter Nord StamDK EP PvP Main
    Legion Commander Tresdin Stamplar DC PvE Main
    Sephirith Altmer MagPlar EP Gondar the Bounty Hunter Khajiit StamBlade DC
    The Dirge Redguard StamNecro EP Disruptor Stormcrafter Nord StamSorc AD
    Lone Druid Bosmer Stam Warden EP Necro-Phos Argonian MagBlade AD
    @ McAttack in game
    Played since beta, and then on console at release, until the game became unplayable on console.
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's fairly simple to understand why the blame game happens.

    1. The Devs have been using "Horizontal Progression" since One Tamriel, which relies on changing the meta to get the game from feeling too stagnant and requires that the Devs periodically address power creep. Some sort of change is always going to happen.

    2. PVP players have forum accounts to complain about the current meta and power creep.Molag Kena, Domihaus, and the coalition of trial bosses do not.

    Therefore, when ZOS nerfs things for PVP reasons, it is obvious. When ZOS nerfs things for PVE reasons, PVE players are caught by surprise. Most players do not realize or do not want to accept that ZOS must constantly change the meta in large or small ways due to using Horizontal Progression, so they seek someone else to blame.
  • SipofMaim
    SipofMaim
    ✭✭✭✭
    Eh. People decide X thing they already don't like is THE PROBLEM from which all problems flow, and stick with it forever. Confirmation bias is a known flaw in the wetware. So is drawing up arbitrary tribal lines and attacking the Others who aren't like Us.

    The things we make and do come and go, but human nature doesn't change.
  • Kiralyn2000
    Kiralyn2000
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lol most pve players dont stay around , most my pve friends that just pve leave after they get bored with pve , witch hapeens pretty quick once u reach end game , or they move to pvp

    pvp is the real end game for most poeple that dont quit

    pve is easy to balance compared to pvp

    Ah, I see. You're one of those people. o:)
  • deepseamk20b14_ESO
    deepseamk20b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Honestly, to find a happy medium, just adjust battle spirit. Leave PvE alone so PvErs can keep doing their thing and PvPers can PvP in peace.

    Example: people got mad at DoTs so they were nerfed. Maybe add “Battle spirit: reduces DoT damage by 25%”. This of course would be based on scalebreaker damage, not current DoT damage. IDK, just a random number I picked, not saying that’s what it should be.
    Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Zacuel wrote: »
    But I play both.

    Who am I supposed to blame?!

    Yourself
  • NordSwordnBoard
    NordSwordnBoard
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    The opposite camp responds on the forum. The ones actually responsible rarely respond.
    Fear is the Mindkiller
  • WuffyCerulei
    WuffyCerulei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    It’s just pvpers seem to be the most vocal when it comes to wanting nerfs, and thus their words tend to be heard the most. #NerfSorc memes are mainly from them. But pvers should be more open about what needs to be nerfed, aka stamcros need nerfing.
    "Buzz Lightyear toy isle shot" Stormcalling/Animal Companions/Assassination PVP build hater

    Bring Back Pure Class Build Power
  • SeaGtGruff
    SeaGtGruff
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Zacuel wrote: »
    But I play both.

    Who am I supposed to blame?!

    The man in the mirror.

    Edit: Sorry, @MLGProPlayer, I didn't see your post and wasn't trying to copy it. I was thinking more along the lines of one's reflection being one's "evil twin." :)
    Edited by SeaGtGruff on October 24, 2019 3:07PM
    I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!
  • El_Borracho
    El_Borracho
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Why do poeple have to blame pvp for pve nerfs, its not just a pve game

    Because teh vast majority of people who primarily play PVE don't give a $%&# about sets pumping out "too much" damage, other sets "healing too well" or "mitigating too much damage," or things like bows and stealth being "OP," or whine incessantly about the unfairness of Earthgore or Zaan.
  • hakan
    hakan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    You forgot to tell. there are also people who blame forum [snip], but most of the nerfs come randomly. the buffs and nerfs that people dont even ask or needed( objectively)

    [Edit for bait.]
    Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on October 24, 2019 6:16PM
Sign In or Register to comment.