3 faction PvP is not working

nejcn001 · October 2019

Ysbriel wrote: »

Having your fps drop to 17 when the real battle begins is the real reason the 3 faction PvP doesnt work.

Fps issues? You have shadows on? I never had FPS, no matter how many ppl were on screen.

SipofMaim · October 2019

Three factions isn't the problem.

Faction hopping wasn't the problem, either. Ball groups aren't the problem. People who prefer pvDoor to pvp aren't the problem. Small scalers aren't the problem. Horseback riding sim isn't the problem, gankers aren't the problem, streamers aren't the problem, even the dwindling PVP population isn't the problem.

The problem is performance sucks. A lot of annoying things would be self-correcting if performance was ok, because ESO open world PVP is fun as hell when it's working.

I have to admit I've never liked the scroll mechanic, was it ever a good idea to give the winning side more buffs and steal them from the people who are already losing? I can't remember. But redesigning the whole thing would be a big waste of time unless they can do something to level out performance, and it seems they can't.

FierceSam · October 2019

If the poor performance really is what makes Cyrodiil/PvP suck, then hopefully the next 3 patches will have a dramatic effect as they promise major performance boosts.

It may be significant or it may simply be that this is when the current server agreement ends and they have managed to negotiate a better server performance contract.

Here’s hoping it works.

MajBludd · October 2019

Guilds are a big part of the problem in pvp.

jazsper77 · October 2019

1st as a Beta player I can state the 1 of OP major statements that the game was advertised as a PvP game is dead false.

2. It’s time to just admit they can’t fix or balance PVP and end it. Sorry to the players who enjoy PvP. But the MAJORITY of the PLAYER BASE and WHALES would like our game to stop being screwed every update do to YOU ALL.

P.S. PvP pop could leave ESO and game will keep thriving. Kill PVE and game dead 6 months

#FACTS

VaranisArano · October 2019

jazsper77 wrote: »

1st as a Beta player I can state the 1 of OP major statements that the game was advertised as a PvP game is dead false.

2. It’s time to just admit they can’t fix or balance PVP and end it. Sorry to the players who enjoy PvP. But the MAJORITY of the PLAYER BASE and WHALES would like our game to stop being screwed every update do to YOU ALL.

P.S. PvP pop could leave ESO and game will keep thriving. Kill PVE and game dead 6 months

#FACTS

When you delete PVP, and ZOS continues to nerf and change the PVE meta because of horizontal progression amd power creep, who will you blame then?

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

jazsper77 wrote: »

1st as a Beta player I can state the 1 of OP major statements that the game was advertised as a PvP game is dead false.

2. It’s time to just admit they can’t fix or balance PVP and end it. Sorry to the players who enjoy PvP. But the MAJORITY of the PLAYER BASE and WHALES would like our game to stop being screwed every update do to YOU ALL.

P.S. PvP pop could leave ESO and game will keep thriving. Kill PVE and game dead 6 months

#FACTS

When you delete PVP, and ZOS continues to nerf and change the PVE meta because of horizontal progression amd power creep, who will you blame then?

The bosses for not getting stronger 😆

TequilaFire · October 2019

You can dribble all you want but the only thing that is killing PvP is the crap performance that ZOS has done nothing about for too long.

Dottzgaming · October 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

ESO 3-way PVP works pretty well when campaigns are populated and competitive.

The major reason they aren't populated is that performance sucks, has sucked for years, and shows every sign of getting worse unless ZOS somehow puls off something amazing in their promised performance updates.

If PVP is going to survive in any form in Cyrodiil in particular, ZOS has got to fix the performance, the lag, anf the bugs. Its crippling PVP.

This. Imo the PvP population isn't shrinking because of an issue with 3 faction system. It's shrinking because because performance is laughably bad. You can only have insane skill delay and massive fps drops for so long before you eventually run out of patience and go do something else.

Darsaga · October 2019

I don’t feel the three factions are the problem at all. The problem is performance. After the kinks from launch got worked out a bit the combat performance tolerable. All the way to Morrowind it declined but was negligible. Then suddenly almost as if a switch was flipped it became exponentially worse with each update. To the point we are at now where everyone I know including myself have left.

Instead of addressing the actual problem PERFORMANCE, I believe the devs thought it was the combat. Or thought they could fix it through combat changes. What made ESO successful despite its declining performance was the combat. So now this team that worked on a successful slow paced boring combat in DAoC (in majority of ESO players minds) started screwing with the only thing people actually liked about PvP, the combat. It may have worked for their game in the past but it doesn’t fit into this game.

So now instead of a fight lasting 2-5 minutes where mistakes were punished almost always by death. We have fights that last for 15+ minutes where one of the two people finally walk away in disgust. Both players making dozens if not hundreds of mistakes and walking away thanks to sets carrying and being able to sustain despite being overly defensive or over buffing.

That is just a 1v1 scenario. Now add in the combat of the 50v50v50 the game was designed for. The servers just won’t handle it. The answer isn’t adding cast times and cool downs, or spending months on animation and texture loading. The answer is punish the people for their mistakes. It worked for almost 2 years and people didn’t leave in herds like they do now with the massive combat changes and steady decline in performance. Why? It’s due to a bunch of infomercial sponges that absorb infinite damage on the battlefield.

My suggestions:

Lower max resists in PvP: Do this through battle spirit or sets. Do not touch sets for PvE tanking they are not the problem and could still be used by PvP tanks. The problem is people achieving 6k weapon damage with heavy sets with no sacrifice.

Significantly lower flat %protection to a max of 20% with major and minor: These buffs in combination with other sets/buffs that offer flat percentages stack too high. Stop nerfing the uptime by adding more calculations of cooldowns to sets, the problem isn’t the uptime if you get the total mitigation possible at a fair/reasonable amount. This would also eliminate you making sets useless.

Remove forward camps and keep recall stones (Also adjust necro ult accordingly): Necro healing should remain low so it isn’t the only needed healer for a group. Having one around for resurrection will still be needed though. This would punish groups for bad positioning and team work. It would spread out the large groups and creat fights on reinforcement routes again encouraging small scale and breathe some life back into solo play at the same time.

Put a flag inside (so two total) the tower at resources and make resources have a significant impact on sieges: Large groups completely ignore resources. Make them have to capture AND hold at least two resources during the siege of the castle. That way people must stay behind to defend them, splitting the main groups size. It also gives small scale something to do while the ball groups do their thing. The defenders castle will be nearly indestructible if they can keep two of the three, again promoting them to leave their walls, spread out and take action.

Lastly: ZOS Stop trying to make everyone happy it isn’t possible. In your quest for doing so you are stripping away all identity and deferential of combat. A little bit of Rock Paper Scissors combat isn’t bad. All classes are not created equally and shouldn’t have access to the same toolkit as everyone else. It worked fine for TWO YEARS+. You can clearly see what trying to give all the complainers is doing.

I could go on and on but this is already to long of a post.

dennissomb16_ESO · October 2019

for MMOs 3 factions is the best design. Population is always the overall issue with MMOs and PvP. Full populations at all times and 3 faction PvP is simply fun. Unfortunately we have seen steady decline in ESO Cyrodiil populations and that is kind of destroying the concept of Faction fights, and campaign scores.

The reasons for the declining population is what all the discussions are about and let's face it even there people will not always agree. Performance issues have been in cyrodiil since the game released (seems to actually be getting worse) and probably the one thing most players would agree is an issue.

Recent days low population gets blamed on performance, faction lock (for and against) constant significant changes to class's and gear, simply the fact the game is 5+ years old. With populations low we see significant one sided behavior in every campaign from simple emperor swapping on the really low population campaigns, to night capping (ESO fault for not having Oceanic server).

The real question is if populations will ever come back even if ESO actually fixed the performance issues

NBrookus · October 2019

I had multiple faction characters before One Tamriel and you could easily bypass the faction locks then.

One Tamriel probably saved this game. If you played before then you know how utterly lonely the zones were. New players couldn't get help, because the few people in their zone were also new players at the same rank. 1T came and all of the sudden it felt like an MMO because there were players everywhere.

I think the game lost something when everything because equally easy and people lost a lot of the sense of their characters growing more powerful, and having to come back to an area because it was too hard. But overall, the benefits have been great. I can be shopping in some random zone and respond to a noob plea to help with a world boss or when they have questions or want some gear. Before 1T, that just didn't happen.

AhPook_Is_Here · October 2019

The problem has always been 2 score boards, the personal AP tracker and the campaign tracker. The idea was that people would care about the campaign score and and work with the other losing faction till one of those two had a lead on the other two. However the rewards aren't impressive, there is no cultural cohesion due to years of cross faction play and unlocked servers and the fact that the games population had been dramatically decreased over the years by a huge range of factors, technical, class adjustments, and the simple fact that the game and the mini game itself are very old.

I don't think it's "not working" it just lacks sound incentives and the over all global player liquidity is a big problem.

One of the easiest ways to fix this is just make Cyrodiil into a part-day Alterec Valley style game, that resets a few times a day or when one side gets supremacy. Cap each instance at 90 players, 30 per side and remove all the outer keeps, just keep the ring. The game could start when 10 players from each faction are present then let more in with maybe a 3 man gap allowance. People wouldn't be kicked on attrition and if two teams fell below 10 the game would conclude with a victor.

AhPook_Is_Here · October 2019

One thing I really miss about quake 2 was ladder matches between clans, having matches that allow rivalries is a strong driver to play.

SeaGtGruff · October 2019

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I wasn't playing ESO back when it launched, so I don't know what I'm talking about (isn't it refreshing to hear someone say that instead of having to tell them that that? ), but wasn't the Imperial City DLC added later, as opposed to being available from the initial launch? I thought it went as follows:

04/04/2014 -- The Elder Scrolls Online
08/31/2015 -- The Elder Scrolls Online: Imperial City

EDIT: Sorry, I'm not trying to quibble, or shift focus away from your point. It's just that you made it sound like Imperial City AvA PvP was part of ESO from the very beginning, which is confusing me.

I think you misunderstand the OP by his use of saying the Imperial City which is known as Cryodii as he wasn't implying to the DLC at that instant he was speaks about it later on because at release it even said fight for the Imperial City which did become funny when the first released DLC was Imperial City a zone that we were locked out of up until that time

I may well have misunderstood the OP-- and as I said, I wasn't around (that is, paying any attention to ESO) back then, which is why I asked.

But it was my understanding, based on what I've read on unofficial sites dedicated to ESO, that there was no PvP at all in ESO when it launched, not even any 1v1 dueling, which was added later on due to popular demand.

And the way I read the OP's post, it sounds like he's saying that PvP was, in fact, actually present (and not merely advertised) in the game at launch.

So I was asking for clarification.

VaranisArano · October 2019

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I wasn't playing ESO back when it launched, so I don't know what I'm talking about (isn't it refreshing to hear someone say that instead of having to tell them that that? ), but wasn't the Imperial City DLC added later, as opposed to being available from the initial launch? I thought it went as follows:

04/04/2014 -- The Elder Scrolls Online
08/31/2015 -- The Elder Scrolls Online: Imperial City

EDIT: Sorry, I'm not trying to quibble, or shift focus away from your point. It's just that you made it sound like Imperial City AvA PvP was part of ESO from the very beginning, which is confusing me.

I think you misunderstand the OP by his use of saying the Imperial City which is known as Cryodii as he wasn't implying to the DLC at that instant he was speaks about it later on because at release it even said fight for the Imperial City which did become funny when the first released DLC was Imperial City a zone that we were locked out of up until that time

I may well have misunderstood the OP-- and as I said, I wasn't around (that is, paying any attention to ESO) back then, which is why I asked.

But it was my understanding, based on what I've read on unofficial sites dedicated to ESO, that there was no PvP at all in ESO when it launched, not even any 1v1 dueling, which was added later on due to popular demand.

And the way I read the OP's post, it sounds like he's saying that PvP was, in fact, actually present (and not merely advertised) in the game at launch.

So I was asking for clarification.

Cyrodiil PVP was part of the game at launch. Its part of the base game. You can find some of that talked about in the AUAs, and here: https://www.cinemablend.com/games/Elder-Scrolls-Online-PvP-Campaigns-Announced-ZeniMax-Prepares-Launch-63053.html

The Imperial City DLC was released August/Sept 2015.

Dueling was added in Update 12: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25797

Iskiab · October 2019

starkerealm wrote: »

A major issue with PvP in MMOs is that it take a long time to get a character ready for PvP. So, if you're here the PvP, you're going to look elsewhere when you realize how much downtime it requires to get PvP ready.

Agreed. Pvp is endgame, you need to already be geared to be competitive.

Wing wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Have you ever played a 2 faction pvp game? I don’t think so. 3 faction pvp is just better, in almost all aspects. I get the impression that those who like 2 factions came from WoW or have never played a 2 faction game, they’re horrible.

we would get fights, that's the theory behind PvP, that's why its not called PvDoor.

There’s lots of battles. PvDoor complaints I hear I assume are mostly small scalers complaining that people don’t come to their tower so they can farm them.

You’re supposed to be fighting over objectives. If you’re whole strategy is to take a meaningless objective, play defensively, and farm new players wanting to pvp then I don’t see the point.

The whole reason for a tower vs a keep is you won’t draw that many people, but just enough to farm and all new players. If the small scalers wanted pvp they’d be hanging out in keeps.

I think the PvDoor and Zerg surfing, whatever names you call other players is because deep down you know the entire small scale playstyle is pretty pointless. Can’t move the map, can’t do much except bait people to play your style of game. If they don’t, then you won’t have anything to do.

ArchMikem · October 2019

2 way is bad, 3 way is bad. Maybe PvP just sucks in general.

Now Cooperative Multiplayer like Mass Effect 3's. Had a ton of fun in that, even if it was just horde mode. I enjoyed the camaraderie and relying on, supporting your fellow players, instead of being teabagged by them and watching the collaborate with enemy players just cause theyre all buds so why fight each other when you can fight and laugh at the randoms.

Cavedog · October 2019

I think 3 factions is the way to go.

Cavedog · October 2019

Kalik_Gold wrote: »

Prefer multi guild politics like Shadowbane was over 2 or 3 faction.

Personally think Cyrodiil would be more fun with the alliance war ending. Then multiple guilds battle over all keeps and towns.

.

Ooooooh.....that is a fun sounding idea....not sure how the hell they'd do it though.

Iskiab · October 2019

I suggested it before but I like FFA pvp too, I never played archage but people who did mentioned that you could attack your own faction?

I thought ESO could try one FFA pvp zone. It’s very niche but fun. Plus pvp has tons of..... big personalities let’s say. The longer you play the more there are people on your own faction you don’t like, a FFA would solve that.

Contrary to popular opinion in FFA people were very civil. If someone wasn’t liked instead of the worst thing you could do to them is give them a carebear stare, you could fight it out. More then one person was forced off the server this way. Younger people might hate it though, they’re used to no repercussions in MMOs. Things like stealing from the guild bank was unthinkable, and you had kill on sight lists and spawn camping if someone was really bad.

SeaGtGruff · October 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I wasn't playing ESO back when it launched, so I don't know what I'm talking about (isn't it refreshing to hear someone say that instead of having to tell them that that? ), but wasn't the Imperial City DLC added later, as opposed to being available from the initial launch? I thought it went as follows:

04/04/2014 -- The Elder Scrolls Online
08/31/2015 -- The Elder Scrolls Online: Imperial City

EDIT: Sorry, I'm not trying to quibble, or shift focus away from your point. It's just that you made it sound like Imperial City AvA PvP was part of ESO from the very beginning, which is confusing me.

I think you misunderstand the OP by his use of saying the Imperial City which is known as Cryodii as he wasn't implying to the DLC at that instant he was speaks about it later on because at release it even said fight for the Imperial City which did become funny when the first released DLC was Imperial City a zone that we were locked out of up until that time

I may well have misunderstood the OP-- and as I said, I wasn't around (that is, paying any attention to ESO) back then, which is why I asked.

But it was my understanding, based on what I've read on unofficial sites dedicated to ESO, that there was no PvP at all in ESO when it launched, not even any 1v1 dueling, which was added later on due to popular demand.

And the way I read the OP's post, it sounds like he's saying that PvP was, in fact, actually present (and not merely advertised) in the game at launch.

So I was asking for clarification.

Cyrodiil PVP was part of the game at launch. Its part of the base game. You can find some of that talked about in the AUAs, and here: https://www.cinemablend.com/games/Elder-Scrolls-Online-PvP-Campaigns-Announced-ZeniMax-Prepares-Launch-63053.html

Dueling was added in Update 12: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25797

Okay, thank you for clarifying that. And thank you as well, @Nordic__Knights, because you tried to explain it first but I wasn't following what you were saying.

So, if I now understand correctly, the zone of Cyrodiil was present from launch (even before Craglorn, which wasn't added until Update 1?), whereas the Imperial City (including the sewers) did not get added until the DLC.

That puts a new spin on how I think I should play through the content and zones with a character if I want to do things "in proper order"-- first the zones of my own alliance, beginning with the escape from Coldharbour; then Cyrodiil (but not yet the Imperial City); then the zones of the other two alliances via Cadwell's silver and golden whatsits; [EDIT: then Craglorn;] and then each of the DLCs (including the Imperial City) and chapters in the order they were released.

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I wasn't playing ESO back when it launched, so I don't know what I'm talking about (isn't it refreshing to hear someone say that instead of having to tell them that that? ), but wasn't the Imperial City DLC added later, as opposed to being available from the initial launch? I thought it went as follows:

04/04/2014 -- The Elder Scrolls Online
08/31/2015 -- The Elder Scrolls Online: Imperial City

EDIT: Sorry, I'm not trying to quibble, or shift focus away from your point. It's just that you made it sound like Imperial City AvA PvP was part of ESO from the very beginning, which is confusing me.

I think you misunderstand the OP by his use of saying the Imperial City which is known as Cryodii as he wasn't implying to the DLC at that instant he was speaks about it later on because at release it even said fight for the Imperial City which did become funny when the first released DLC was Imperial City a zone that we were locked out of up until that time

I may well have misunderstood the OP-- and as I said, I wasn't around (that is, paying any attention to ESO) back then, which is why I asked.

But it was my understanding, based on what I've read on unofficial sites dedicated to ESO, that there was no PvP at all in ESO when it launched, not even any 1v1 dueling, which was added later on due to popular demand.

And the way I read the OP's post, it sounds like he's saying that PvP was, in fact, actually present (and not merely advertised) in the game at launch.

So I was asking for clarification.

Cyrodiil PVP was part of the game at launch. Its part of the base game. You can find some of that talked about in the AUAs, and here: https://www.cinemablend.com/games/Elder-Scrolls-Online-PvP-Campaigns-Announced-ZeniMax-Prepares-Launch-63053.html

Dueling was added in Update 12: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25797

Okay, thank you for clarifying that. And thank you as well, @Nordic__Knights, because you tried to explain it first but I wasn't following what you were saying.

So, if I now understand correctly, the zone of Cyrodiil was present from launch (even before Craglorn, which wasn't added until Update 1?), whereas the Imperial City (including the sewers) did not get added until the DLC.

That puts a new spin on how I think I should play through the content and zones with a character if I want to do things "in proper order"-- first the zones of my own alliance, beginning with the escape from Coldharbour; then Cyrodiil (but not yet the Imperial City); then the zones of the other two alliances via Cadwell's silver and golden whatsits; [EDIT: then Craglorn;] and then each of the DLCs (including the Imperial City) and chapters in the order they were released.

Well the craghorn that you would be going to at this point ain't the same one that we had in the beginning as it was too hard for most people to accomplish and they changed it into what it is today boring

Cavedog · October 2019

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I wasn't playing ESO back when it launched, so I don't know what I'm talking about (isn't it refreshing to hear someone say that instead of having to tell them that that? ), but wasn't the Imperial City DLC added later, as opposed to being available from the initial launch? I thought it went as follows:

04/04/2014 -- The Elder Scrolls Online
08/31/2015 -- The Elder Scrolls Online: Imperial City

EDIT: Sorry, I'm not trying to quibble, or shift focus away from your point. It's just that you made it sound like Imperial City AvA PvP was part of ESO from the very beginning, which is confusing me.

I think you misunderstand the OP by his use of saying the Imperial City which is known as Cryodii as he wasn't implying to the DLC at that instant he was speaks about it later on because at release it even said fight for the Imperial City which did become funny when the first released DLC was Imperial City a zone that we were locked out of up until that time

I may well have misunderstood the OP-- and as I said, I wasn't around (that is, paying any attention to ESO) back then, which is why I asked.

But it was my understanding, based on what I've read on unofficial sites dedicated to ESO, that there was no PvP at all in ESO when it launched, not even any 1v1 dueling, which was added later on due to popular demand.

And the way I read the OP's post, it sounds like he's saying that PvP was, in fact, actually present (and not merely advertised) in the game at launch.

So I was asking for clarification.

Cyrodiil PVP was part of the game at launch. Its part of the base game. You can find some of that talked about in the AUAs, and here: https://www.cinemablend.com/games/Elder-Scrolls-Online-PvP-Campaigns-Announced-ZeniMax-Prepares-Launch-63053.html

Dueling was added in Update 12: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25797

Okay, thank you for clarifying that. And thank you as well, @Nordic__Knights, because you tried to explain it first but I wasn't following what you were saying.

So, if I now understand correctly, the zone of Cyrodiil was present from launch (even before Craglorn, which wasn't added until Update 1?), whereas the Imperial City (including the sewers) did not get added until the DLC.

That puts a new spin on how I think I should play through the content and zones with a character if I want to do things "in proper order"-- first the zones of my own alliance, beginning with the escape from Coldharbour; then Cyrodiil (but not yet the Imperial City); then the zones of the other two alliances via Cadwell's silver and golden whatsits; [EDIT: then Craglorn;] and then each of the DLCs (including the Imperial City) and chapters in the order they were released.

Well the craghorn that you would be going to at this point ain't the same one that we had in the beginning as it was too hard for most people to accomplish and they changed it into what it is today boring

lol....ya, but it's been a while since Craglorn was "end game" zone.

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

Cavedog wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I wasn't playing ESO back when it launched, so I don't know what I'm talking about (isn't it refreshing to hear someone say that instead of having to tell them that that? ), but wasn't the Imperial City DLC added later, as opposed to being available from the initial launch? I thought it went as follows:

04/04/2014 -- The Elder Scrolls Online
08/31/2015 -- The Elder Scrolls Online: Imperial City

EDIT: Sorry, I'm not trying to quibble, or shift focus away from your point. It's just that you made it sound like Imperial City AvA PvP was part of ESO from the very beginning, which is confusing me.

I think you misunderstand the OP by his use of saying the Imperial City which is known as Cryodii as he wasn't implying to the DLC at that instant he was speaks about it later on because at release it even said fight for the Imperial City which did become funny when the first released DLC was Imperial City a zone that we were locked out of up until that time

I may well have misunderstood the OP-- and as I said, I wasn't around (that is, paying any attention to ESO) back then, which is why I asked.

But it was my understanding, based on what I've read on unofficial sites dedicated to ESO, that there was no PvP at all in ESO when it launched, not even any 1v1 dueling, which was added later on due to popular demand.

And the way I read the OP's post, it sounds like he's saying that PvP was, in fact, actually present (and not merely advertised) in the game at launch.

So I was asking for clarification.

Cyrodiil PVP was part of the game at launch. Its part of the base game. You can find some of that talked about in the AUAs, and here: https://www.cinemablend.com/games/Elder-Scrolls-Online-PvP-Campaigns-Announced-ZeniMax-Prepares-Launch-63053.html

Dueling was added in Update 12: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25797

Okay, thank you for clarifying that. And thank you as well, @Nordic__Knights, because you tried to explain it first but I wasn't following what you were saying.

So, if I now understand correctly, the zone of Cyrodiil was present from launch (even before Craglorn, which wasn't added until Update 1?), whereas the Imperial City (including the sewers) did not get added until the DLC.

That puts a new spin on how I think I should play through the content and zones with a character if I want to do things "in proper order"-- first the zones of my own alliance, beginning with the escape from Coldharbour; then Cyrodiil (but not yet the Imperial City); then the zones of the other two alliances via Cadwell's silver and golden whatsits; [EDIT: then Craglorn;] and then each of the DLCs (including the Imperial City) and chapters in the order they were released.

Well the craghorn that you would be going to at this point ain't the same one that we had in the beginning as it was too hard for most people to accomplish and they changed it into what it is today boring

lol....ya, but it's been a while since Craglorn was "end game" zone.

Yeah unfortunately they took the one Fun Zone away

SeaGtGruff · October 2019

Unfortunately, most of Craglorn is still too hard for my NA and EU mains, although I might be able to remedy that through some respeccing, regearing, and reorganizing of skill bars.

My newest NA character is already pretty good at DPS for being a lowly L25, but I'm not putting any of his SPs into crafting. I'm hoping he'll be better able to tackle at least some of the content which is too tough for my mains as they're currently built, geared, and skill-barred.

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

A major issue with PvP in MMOs is that it take a long time to get a character ready for PvP. So, if you're here the PvP, you're going to look elsewhere when you realize how much downtime it requires to get PvP ready.

Agreed. Pvp is endgame, you need to already be geared to be competitive.

Wing wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Have you ever played a 2 faction pvp game? I don’t think so. 3 faction pvp is just better, in almost all aspects. I get the impression that those who like 2 factions came from WoW or have never played a 2 faction game, they’re horrible.

we would get fights, that's the theory behind PvP, that's why its not called PvDoor.

There’s lots of battles. PvDoor complaints I hear I assume are mostly small scalers complaining that people don’t come to their tower so they can farm them.

You’re supposed to be fighting over objectives. If you’re whole strategy is to take a meaningless objective, play defensively, and farm new players wanting to pvp then I don’t see the point.

The whole reason for a tower vs a keep is you won’t draw that many people, but just enough to farm and all new players. If the small scalers wanted pvp they’d be hanging out in keeps.

I think the PvDoor and Zerg surfing, whatever names you call other players is because deep down you know the entire small scale playstyle is pretty pointless. Can’t move the map, can’t do much except bait people to play your style of game. If they don’t, then you won’t have anything to do.

No the term PVdoor was brought up when people would go to the very back keeps that were empty and attack there instead of trying to fight on the front lines where actual players were it became more of a PVE adjectives killing NPCs and when a fight would occur against players they would just leave the keep and go hit Another Empty keep
When resources still had their doors we used to Tower Farm it was actually very fun and you'd have a lot of people on both ends involved in it once they remove the door do the resources they removed that fun that you were able to have and as well it became less of a strategy like it was in the beginning because let's say that we was getting gated group would go to Midway of the map and take a resource start a tower Farm it would have a lot of people that would flock to it just simply because it was almost like taking a keep just simply having doors there

TequilaFire · October 2019

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

A major issue with PvP in MMOs is that it take a long time to get a character ready for PvP. So, if you're here the PvP, you're going to look elsewhere when you realize how much downtime it requires to get PvP ready.

Agreed. Pvp is endgame, you need to already be geared to be competitive.

Wing wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Have you ever played a 2 faction pvp game? I don’t think so. 3 faction pvp is just better, in almost all aspects. I get the impression that those who like 2 factions came from WoW or have never played a 2 faction game, they’re horrible.

we would get fights, that's the theory behind PvP, that's why its not called PvDoor.

There’s lots of battles. PvDoor complaints I hear I assume are mostly small scalers complaining that people don’t come to their tower so they can farm them.

You’re supposed to be fighting over objectives. If you’re whole strategy is to take a meaningless objective, play defensively, and farm new players wanting to pvp then I don’t see the point.

The whole reason for a tower vs a keep is you won’t draw that many people, but just enough to farm and all new players. If the small scalers wanted pvp they’d be hanging out in keeps.

I think the PvDoor and Zerg surfing, whatever names you call other players is because deep down you know the entire small scale playstyle is pretty pointless. Can’t move the map, can’t do much except bait people to play your style of game. If they don’t, then you won’t have anything to do.

No the term PVdoor was brought up when people would go to the very back keeps that were empty and attack there instead of trying to fight on the front lines where actual players were it became more of a PVE adjectives killing NPCs and when a fight would occur against players they would just leave the keep and go hit Another Empty keep

The front lines are everywhere. Keeps are supposed to be defended but everybody wants to go yolo in one spot with only a very few who stay in a keep to watch so they can call 911 when a back keep gets attacked.
Don't watch your back keeps you pay the price as it is good strategy to take points away and possibly open the enemy gates.
This is caused in part by poor rewards for defending.

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

TequilaFire wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

A major issue with PvP in MMOs is that it take a long time to get a character ready for PvP. So, if you're here the PvP, you're going to look elsewhere when you realize how much downtime it requires to get PvP ready.

Agreed. Pvp is endgame, you need to already be geared to be competitive.

Wing wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Have you ever played a 2 faction pvp game? I don’t think so. 3 faction pvp is just better, in almost all aspects. I get the impression that those who like 2 factions came from WoW or have never played a 2 faction game, they’re horrible.

we would get fights, that's the theory behind PvP, that's why its not called PvDoor.

There’s lots of battles. PvDoor complaints I hear I assume are mostly small scalers complaining that people don’t come to their tower so they can farm them.

You’re supposed to be fighting over objectives. If you’re whole strategy is to take a meaningless objective, play defensively, and farm new players wanting to pvp then I don’t see the point.

The whole reason for a tower vs a keep is you won’t draw that many people, but just enough to farm and all new players. If the small scalers wanted pvp they’d be hanging out in keeps.

I think the PvDoor and Zerg surfing, whatever names you call other players is because deep down you know the entire small scale playstyle is pretty pointless. Can’t move the map, can’t do much except bait people to play your style of game. If they don’t, then you won’t have anything to do.

No the term PVdoor was brought up when people would go to the very back keeps that were empty and attack there instead of trying to fight on the front lines where actual players were it became more of a PVE adjectives killing NPCs and when a fight would occur against players they would just leave the keep and go hit Another Empty keep

The front lines are everywhere. Keeps are supposed to be defended but everybody wants to go yolo in one spot with only a very few who stay in a keep to watch so they can call 911 when a back keep gets attacked.
Don't watch your back keeps you pay the price as it is good strategy to take points away and possibly open the enemy gates.
This is caused in part by poor rewards for defending.

When the game was introduced we didn't have chat we didn't have a way to call out something was being hit the only way you ever knew something was hit is once it was flag or they touched a resource

Wing · October 2019

TequilaFire wrote: »

The front lines are everywhere. Keeps are supposed to be defended but everybody wants to go yolo in one spot with only a very few who stay in a keep to watch so they can call 911 when a back keep gets attacked.
Don't watch your back keeps you pay the price as it is good strategy to take points away and possibly open the enemy gates.
This is caused in part by poor rewards for defending.

BS

don't want to watch your back keeps?

so wait, your saying we should what? afk in our back keeps in case some PvDoor players come around?

and Yolo in one spot? people are heading to fights, they want to fight, its PvP. they see the frontlines where people are fighting and they go there.

your literally insulting people wanting to fight, and suggesting that people sit in empty keeps just in case some people come to PvDoor.

like somehow the PvDoor players are the victims, you know those raids that run away from fights, sit in stealth, and try and flag and flip keeps before anyone can come fight back, and if people do drop everything to stop the PvDoor, the raids will F**NG run mid flip to hide and avoid a fight.

why even pvp? just go do PvE content, there is a bunch of it and no scary PvP players are there.